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Debian 10 64bit

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  Debian 10 64bit Jerry Mellon <jfmellon@netscape.net> - 2020-12-15 01:50 +0100
    Re: Debian 10 64bit Peter Ehlert <peter@sdi-baja.com> - 2020-12-15 03:00 +0100
    Re: Debian 10 64bit john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2020-12-15 08:10 +0100
    Re: Debian 10 64bit Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-12-15 10:30 +0100
      Re: Debian 10 64bit john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2020-12-15 11:40 +0100
        Re: Debian 10 64bit Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-12-15 12:40 +0100
        Re: Debian 10 64bit Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2020-12-15 18:40 +0100
          Re: Debian 10 64bit "Gareth Evans" <donotspam@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-15 19:10 +0100
            Re: Debian 10 64bit Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-12-15 19:20 +0100
              Re: Debian 10 64bit Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-12-15 19:50 +0100
                Re: Debian 10 64bit Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2020-12-15 21:20 +0100
                  Re: Debian 10 64bit <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-12-16 10:50 +0100
              Re: Debian 10 64bit "Gareth Evans" <donotspam@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-15 19:50 +0100
              Re: Debian 10 64bit "Gareth Evans" <garethevans@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-15 20:00 +0100
            Re: Debian 10 64bit Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-12-15 22:00 +0100
          Re: Debian 10 64bit john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2020-12-15 19:40 +0100
            Re: Debian 10 64bit Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-12-15 20:40 +0100
              Re: Debian 10 64bit Keith Bainbridge <ke1thozgroups@gmx.com> - 2020-12-16 11:20 +0100
                Re: Debian 10 64bit deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-12-16 11:40 +0100
                Re: Debian 10 64bit Peter Ehlert <peter@sdi-baja.com> - 2020-12-16 15:30 +0100
                Re: Debian 10 64bit David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-12-16 22:50 +0100
                Re: Debian 10 64bit Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2020-12-17 12:30 +0100
            Re: Debian 10 64bit David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-12-16 23:10 +0100
              Re: Debian 10 64bit Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-12-17 01:20 +0100
                Re: Debian 10 64bit Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2020-12-17 11:00 +0100
              Re: Debian 10 64bit <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-12-17 16:10 +0100
                Re: Debian 10 64bit Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-12-17 16:20 +0100
                  Re: Debian 10 64bit David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-12-17 17:30 +0100
                    Re: Debian 10 64bit <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-12-17 17:40 +0100
                      Re: Debian 10 64bit steef <debian.linux@home.nl> - 2020-12-17 23:00 +0100
                    Re: Debian 10 64bit David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-12-17 17:40 +0100
                    Re: Debian 10 64bit <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-12-18 21:10 +0100
                  Re: Debian 10 64bit <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-12-18 21:00 +0100
                  Re: Debian 10 64bit David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-12-19 21:10 +0100
                    Re: Debian 10 64bit Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2020-12-20 18:10 +0100
                      Re: Debian 10 64bit Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-12-21 14:10 +0100

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#229759 — Debian 10 64bit

I finally got around to installing debian 10 on my 64bit system(thus
removing the i386version I had originally instaled). The install went
well and I asked for a seperate Home particion. When I booted the system
and try to do "apt-get update and apt-get upgrade" using "sudo" it would
not let me do that. Said I was not a sudo user. I then tried "su root"
which failed as well as it said I was not a sudo user. I went to the
sudouse file and changed it to make me a user. Sudo as myself worked
fine but su root still did not work.

After seeing the email concering problems with sudo and su root I
decided to reload. I did but did a use whole disk (no home part).
After booting I did have to go to the sudouser file an change it again
but the su root worked with out a problem.

Only saying all of this because of the email chatter on sudo and su
root.

Thanks for the attention a great info.
Jerry

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#229763

I can not begin to explain sudo, I don't use it, but many do.
It's complicated, start reading here: https://wiki.debian.org/sudo/

On 12/14/20 4:45 PM, Jerry Mellon wrote:
> I finally got around to installing debian 10 on my 64bit system(thus
> removing the i386version I had originally instaled). The install went
> well and I asked for a seperate Home particion. When I booted the system
> and try to do "apt-get update and apt-get upgrade" using "sudo" it would
> not let me do that. Said I was not a sudo user. I then tried "su root"
> which failed as well as it said I was not a sudo user. I went to the
> sudouse file and changed it to make me a user. Sudo as myself worked
> fine but su root still did not work.
>
> After seeing the email concering problems with sudo and su root I
> decided to reload. I did but did a use whole disk (no home part).
> After booting I did have to go to the sudouser file an change it again
> but the su root worked with out a problem.
>
> Only saying all of this because of the email chatter on sudo and su
> root.
>
> Thanks for the attention a great info.
> Jerry
>
>
>

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#229764

On 12/15/2020 1:45 AM, Jerry Mellon wrote:
> I finally got around to installing debian 10 on my 64bit system(thus
> removing the i386version I had originally instaled). The install went
> well and I asked for a seperate Home particion. When I booted the system
> and try to do "apt-get update and apt-get upgrade" using "sudo" it would
> not let me do that. Said I was not a sudo user. I then tried "su root"
> which failed as well as it said I was not a sudo user. I went to the
> sudouse file and changed it to make me a user. Sudo as myself worked
> fine but su root still did not work.
>
> After seeing the email concering problems with sudo and su root I
> decided to reload. I did but did a use whole disk (no home part).
> After booting I did have to go to the sudouser file an change it again
> but the su root worked with out a problem.
>
> Only saying all of this because of the email chatter on sudo and su
> root.
>
>

The 'su' utility has nothing to do with the 'sudo' utility and they are
controled separately.

The 'su do ('sudo')' utility is controled by the file '/etc/sudoers' or
by any file placed in the directory '/etc/sudoers.d'.
So to grand full access to a specific user in the sudoers file you would
have something like:

'<USER> ALL=(ALL) ALL'


Where <USER> is to be substituted by the desired user.


The 'substitute user ('su')' utility is used in conbination with 'pam'
and is controled by the file '/etc/pam.d/su'.
Unless you know what you are doing, it is strongly suggested to use the
'--login' option to get a logging shell like so:

'su --login'


--
John Doe

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#229766

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Lu, 14 dec 20, 19:45:54, Jerry Mellon wrote:
> I finally got around to installing debian 10 on my 64bit system(thus
> removing the i386version I had originally instaled). The install went
> well and I asked for a seperate Home particion. When I booted the system
> and try to do "apt-get update and apt-get upgrade" using "sudo" it would
> not let me do that. Said I was not a sudo user. I then tried "su root"
> which failed as well as it said I was not a sudo user. I went to the
> sudouse file and changed it to make me a user. Sudo as myself worked
> fine but su root still did not work.
> 
> After seeing the email concering problems with sudo and su root I
> decided to reload. I did but did a use whole disk (no home part).
> After booting I did have to go to the sudouser file an change it again
> but the su root worked with out a problem.

You probably set a root password during install.

The Debian Installer will configure 'sudo' for the first user only if 
you leave the root password blank. This is explained during the install.

If you want to use sudo even if you did set a root password on Debian 
this can be very easily done with:

    adduser jerry sudo

(assuming your username is jerry, of course)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#229767

On 12/15/2020 10:19 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Lu, 14 dec 20, 19:45:54, Jerry Mellon wrote:
>> I finally got around to installing debian 10 on my 64bit system(thus
>> removing the i386version I had originally instaled). The install went
>> well and I asked for a seperate Home particion. When I booted the system
>> and try to do "apt-get update and apt-get upgrade" using "sudo" it would
>> not let me do that. Said I was not a sudo user. I then tried "su root"
>> which failed as well as it said I was not a sudo user. I went to the
>> sudouse file and changed it to make me a user. Sudo as myself worked
>> fine but su root still did not work.
>>
>> After seeing the email concering problems with sudo and su root I
>> decided to reload. I did but did a use whole disk (no home part).
>> After booting I did have to go to the sudouser file an change it again
>> but the su root worked with out a problem.
>
> You probably set a root password during install.
>
> The Debian Installer will configure 'sudo' for the first user only if
> you leave the root password blank. This is explained during the install.

That doesn't look to be the case anymore, I just installed Buster with
Mate and sudo is installed.

--
John Doe

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#229769

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Ma, 15 dec 20, 11:36:50, john doe wrote:
> On 12/15/2020 10:19 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > 
> > The Debian Installer will configure 'sudo' for the first user only if
> > you leave the root password blank. This is explained during the install.
> 
> That doesn't look to be the case anymore, I just installed Buster with
> Mate and sudo is installed.

configure =/= installed ;)

In this particular case, by "configure" I mean the user created during 
the install (typically uid=1000) is added to group 'sudo', since the 
default /etc/sudoers already contains:

    # Allow members of group sudo to execute any command
    %sudo	ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL


Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#229775

On Tue, 2020-12-15 at 11:36 +0100, john doe wrote:
> On 12/15/2020 10:19 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > On Lu, 14 dec 20, 19:45:54, Jerry Mellon wrote:
> > > I finally got around to installing debian 10 on my 64bit system(thus
> > > removing the i386version I had originally instaled). The install went
> > > well and I asked for a seperate Home particion. When I booted the system
> > > and try to do "apt-get update and apt-get upgrade" using "sudo" it would
> > > not let me do that. Said I was not a sudo user. I then tried "su root"
> > > which failed as well as it said I was not a sudo user. I went to the
> > > sudouse file and changed it to make me a user. Sudo as myself worked
> > > fine but su root still did not work.
> > > 
> > > After seeing the email concering problems with sudo and su root I
> > > decided to reload. I did but did a use whole disk (no home part).
> > > After booting I did have to go to the sudouser file an change it again
> > > but the su root worked with out a problem.
> > 
> > You probably set a root password during install.
> > 
> > The Debian Installer will configure 'sudo' for the first user only if
> > you leave the root password blank. This is explained during the install.
> 
> That doesn't look to be the case anymore, I just installed Buster with
> Mate and sudo is installed.

Because sudo is a recommended package of task-desktop, which is a
dependency of task-mate-desktop. But if you gave it a root password
during install then it didn't add the user you created at install time
into the 'sudo' group, so no user can use sudo. (This does make me
wonder why 'sudo' is recommended by task-desktop in the first place.)

I installed Bullseye LXDE yesterday, with recommended packages
disabled, and didn't get sudo installed (because I gave a root password
during install).

-- 
Tixy

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#229776

It seems to me that Jerry may have mistakenly typed a user rather than root password at the su (not sudo) prompt at least once, but also used the correct (root) password at least once. 

How else could changes to /etc/sudoers (which I imagine is what is meant by "the sudouse(r) file") have been saved?  


On Tue, 15 Dec 2020, at 17:34, Tixy wrote:
> On Tue, 2020-12-15 at 11:36 +0100, john doe wrote:
> > On 12/15/2020 10:19 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > On Lu, 14 dec 20, 19:45:54, Jerry Mellon wrote:
> > > > I finally got around to installing debian 10 on my 64bit system(thus
> > > > removing the i386version I had originally instaled). The install went
> > > > well and I asked for a seperate Home particion. When I booted the system
> > > > and try to do "apt-get update and apt-get upgrade" using "sudo" it would
> > > > not let me do that. Said I was not a sudo user. I then tried "su root"
> > > > which failed as well as it said I was not a sudo user. I went to the
> > > > sudouse file and changed it to make me a user. Sudo as myself worked
> > > > fine but su root still did not work.
> > > > 
> > > > After seeing the email concering problems with sudo and su root I
> > > > decided to reload. I did but did a use whole disk (no home part).
> > > > After booting I did have to go to the sudouser file an change it again
> > > > but the su root worked with out a problem.
> > > 
> > > You probably set a root password during install.
> > > 
> > > The Debian Installer will configure 'sudo' for the first user only if
> > > you leave the root password blank. This is explained during the install.
> > 
> > That doesn't look to be the case anymore, I just installed Buster with
> > Mate and sudo is installed.
> 
> Because sudo is a recommended package of task-desktop, which is a
> dependency of task-mate-desktop. But if you gave it a root password
> during install then it didn't add the user you created at install time
> into the 'sudo' group, so no user can use sudo. (This does make me
> wonder why 'sudo' is recommended by task-desktop in the first place.)
> 
> I installed Bullseye LXDE yesterday, with recommended packages
> disabled, and didn't get sudo installed (because I gave a root password
> during install).
> 
> -- 
> Tixy
> 
>

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#229777

On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 06:02:48PM +0000, Gareth Evans wrote:
> It seems to me that Jerry may have mistakenly typed a user rather than root password at the su (not sudo) prompt at least once, but also used the correct (root) password at least once. 
> 
> How else could changes to /etc/sudoers (which I imagine is what is meant by "the sudouse(r) file") have been saved?  

In Debian, there's no need to modify the sudoers file if you only want
"all or nothing" access to sudo.  Users in the sudo group have full
access and can use sudo to do anything.  Users not in the group have
no access.

If you leave the root password empty during installation, your initial
user account is added to the sudo group, and the sudo package is added
to the list of packages to be installed.

If you install a desktop environment, the sudo package is also added
to the list of packages to be installed.  Of course, in order to *use*
it, you'll need to add users to the sudo group, or modify the sudoers
file.

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#229779

On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 06:39:29PM +0000, Gareth Evans wrote:
> Hi Greg,
> 
> Thanks.  Apologies if I'm missing something, but I don't understand how this situation could have arisen other than because of password errors somewhere or other.
> 
> Jerry said:
> 
> > When I booted the system
> > and try to do "apt-get update and apt-get upgrade" using "sudo" it would
> > not let me do that. Said I was not a sudo user. I then tried "su root"
> > which failed as well as it said I was not a sudo user. 
> 
> Surely su doesn't require sudo?  

I'm guessing some parts of Jerry's text contain errors.  This would be
one of the more likely bits.

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#229783

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

I smile at this discussion, having gone through this same thought-cycle so
many times.
I claim this is motivation for the separation of a graphical client
workstation, simpler and separate from the server, having ONLY a
single-user identity at a time. In other words, re-implementation of the
XWindows approach.
I think that identity, access and security friction as we see in this
discussion will eventually push the pendulum back in that other direction.
Except for those who dont mind the in/decrement in complexity and
responsiveness in an installation that provides both. In the data center
this separation is enforced for many years; X-Windows is not installed on
servers. There's almost never a need for it there and it presents another
attack surface.

In sum, we need a (Debian-based) live distribution that provides only an X
server. And focuses on network and graphics responsiveness (resident in RAM
where possible). Trading-off against other performance targets. Leaving
little to no footprint on the local disk besides kernel image and initrd.
Of course knoppix and floppyfw are the examples. Just tighter and focused
to that role.
Your thoughts?

>From wikipedia on X Windows:
X allows a graphical terminal user to make use of remote resources on the
network as if they were all located locally to the user by running a single
module of software called the X server.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_graphical_user_interface#The_X_Window_System

On Tue, Dec 15, 2020, 12:47 PM Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 06:39:29PM +0000, Gareth Evans wrote:
> > Hi Greg,
> >
> > Thanks.  Apologies if I'm missing something, but I don't understand how
> this situation could have arisen other than because of password errors
> somewhere or other.
> >
> > Jerry said:
> >
> > > When I booted the system
> > > and try to do "apt-get update and apt-get upgrade" using "sudo" it
> would
> > > not let me do that. Said I was not a sudo user. I then tried "su root"
> > > which failed as well as it said I was not a sudo user.
> >
> > Surely su doesn't require sudo?
>
> I'm guessing some parts of Jerry's text contain errors.  This would be
> one of the more likely bits.
>
>

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#229787

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 02:11:45PM -0600, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> I smile at this discussion, having gone through this same thought-cycle so
> many times.
> I claim this is motivation for the separation of a graphical client
> workstation, simpler and separate from the server, having ONLY a
> single-user identity at a time. In other words, re-implementation of the
> XWindows approach.
> I think that identity, access and security friction as we see in this
> discussion will eventually push the pendulum back in that other direction.
> Except for those who dont mind the in/decrement in complexity and
> responsiveness in an installation that provides both. In the data center
> this separation is enforced for many years; X-Windows is not installed on
> servers. There's almost never a need for it there and it presents another
> attack surface.

Agree, in general. One nitpick: it's "X", "X11" or "the X Window System".
Calling it "X Windows" is giving in to The Reptile's influence.

[Sorry. I'm a bit of a language nerd. I've already asked my doctor, she
says she can't do anything about it]

I think what happened (somewhere between 1990 and early 2000s) is, that
with everyone having a computer on her desk, the idea of separate users
became blurry. Desktop environments had one "real user", and she was
sitting right there, next to the graphics hardware.

Unix got many things right from the beginning, because this multi-user
paradigm was deeply rooted in there from day one: battle-tested by
students keen on playing pranks, with people using the system /at the
same time/ (*GASP!*) from different time zones.

Whoever has seen time handling in Windows during its period from Windows
3.1 to Windows 95 and XP has had a lot to laugh. And to weep.

So the desktop environments started aping Windows more and more, and,
although the underlying system was inherently multi-user, they became
kind of single-user. Watch all that "multiseat" nonsense of the time
(promoted, afaik, by some bigger Linux "vendors" [1]).

Then, with the take-off of the browser and Active-X 3.0 [2] (aka
Javascript), multi-user becomes interesting again, but for different
reasons.

If you do some archaeology, you'll find that many things have been
reinvented in some strange, sometimes perverted way [3]... and slapped
on top of the existing layer. Cgroups vs. process groups; systemd's
socket activation vs. (x)inetd; and so on.

The future? Usually I'm called an optimist, but this time... sorry.
I think we'll be back to that terminal thingie: people will have
a browser on their desktops/pockets/retinas; that browser will be
written in node.js and be totally controlled by Google, and will
be running on dedicated hardware.

It will be "open source", mind you, but it will be so fiendishly
complex that you'll need some AI-driven SDK whose training data
will be Google's and Palantir's trade secrets to even stand a
chance to hack at it.

Know what? I'm glad I passed my 2^6 th year. It was my last power
of two ;-P

But then, I meet so incredibly smart young people, who surprise
me in (well, duh!) unforeseen ways... this, again, keeps me alive
and curious :-D

Cheers

[1] It might seem I'm bashing here early Linux vendors. Not at all:
   Red Hat and Suse did and do a lot to keep the lights on for many
   a cool hacker. OTOH they are capitalist enterprises in the
   classical sense (i.e. the money dictates where things go), so
   they pick up some of the antipatterns of the trade. Things are
   as they are.

[2] Active-X 2.0 being Flash. Java applets never got an own version,
   sorry ;-)

[3] Not saying that there wasn't an itch to scratch, mind you. There
   sure was. Often, though, you'll also witness some amount of
   "second system syndrome" [5]

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_system_syndrome

 - t

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#229780

[re-sending to list as I initially replied from a non-subscribed address]

Hi Greg,

Thanks.  Apologies if I'm missing something, but I don't understand how this situation could have arisen other than because of password errors somewhere or other.

Jerry said:

> When I booted the system
> and try to do "apt-get update and apt-get upgrade" using "sudo" it would
> not let me do that. Said I was not a sudo user. I then tried "su root"
> which failed as well as it said I was not a sudo user. 

Surely su doesn't require sudo?  

> I went to the
> sudouse file and changed it to make me a user. Sudo as myself worked
> fine but su root still did not work.

Jerry seems to me to be saying that neither sudo nor su root succeeded, yet he still saved changes (I presume) to what I imagine is /etc/sudoers - doesn't he?

The second installation resulted in success with su root

> After seeing the email concering problems with sudo and su root ...

Could someone refer me to this please?

> ... I decided to reload. I did but did a use whole disk (no home part).
> After booting I did have to go to the sudouser file an change it again
> ***but the su root worked with out a problem***.

I'm not sure if a leaving the root pw blank during installation disables use of su root, but in the case of a blank root password, sudo should have worked but it didn't.  If sudo didn't work because there is no-one in the sudo group, su should be available, and for both not to work (as in the first installation) suggests a password error, doesn't it?  The fact that sudo was made to work during the first installation (having not initially) suggests that su must have succeeded at some point, doesn't it?

Kind regards,
Gareth


On Tue, 15 Dec 2020, at 18:12, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 06:02:48PM +0000, Gareth Evans wrote:
> > It seems to me that Jerry may have mistakenly typed a user rather than root password at the su (not sudo) prompt at least once, but also used the correct (root) password at least once. 
> > 
> > How else could changes to /etc/sudoers (which I imagine is what is meant by "the sudouse(r) file") have been saved?  
> 
> In Debian, there's no need to modify the sudoers file if you only want
> "all or nothing" access to sudo.  Users in the sudo group have full
> access and can use sudo to do anything.  Users not in the group have
> no access.
> 
> If you leave the root password empty during installation, your initial
> user account is added to the sudo group, and the sudo package is added
> to the list of packages to be installed.
> 
> If you install a desktop environment, the sudo package is also added
> to the list of packages to be installed.  Of course, in order to *use*
> it, you'll need to add users to the sudo group, or modify the sudoers
> file.
> 
>

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#229781

Hi Greg,

Thanks.  Apologies if I'm missing something, but I don't understand how this situation could have arisen other than because of password errors somewhere or other.

Jerry said:

> When I booted the system
> and try to do "apt-get update and apt-get upgrade" using "sudo" it would
> not let me do that. Said I was not a sudo user. I then tried "su root"
> which failed as well as it said I was not a sudo user. 

Surely su doesn't require sudo?  

> I went to the
> sudouse file and changed it to make me a user. Sudo as myself worked
> fine but su root still did not work.

Jerry seems to me to be saying that neither sudo nor su root succeeded, yet he still saved changes (I presume) to what I imagine is /etc/sudoers - doesn't he?

The second installation resulted in success with su root

> After seeing the email concering problems with sudo and su root ...

Could someone refer me to this please?

> ... I decided to reload. I did but did a use whole disk (no home part).
> After booting I did have to go to the sudouser file an change it again
> ***but the su root worked with out a problem***.

I'm not sure if a leaving the root pw blank during installation disables use of su root, but in the case of a blank root password, sudo should have worked but it didn't.  If sudo didn't work because there is no-one in the sudo group, su should be available, and for both not to work (as in the first installation) suggests a password error, doesn't it?  The fact that sudo was made to work during the first installation (having not initially) suggests that su must have succeeded at some point, doesn't it?

Kind regards,
Gareth


On Tue, 15 Dec 2020, at 18:12, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 06:02:48PM +0000, Gareth Evans wrote:
> > It seems to me that Jerry may have mistakenly typed a user rather than root password at the su (not sudo) prompt at least once, but also used the correct (root) password at least once. 
> > 
> > How else could changes to /etc/sudoers (which I imagine is what is meant by "the sudouse(r) file") have been saved?  
> 
> In Debian, there's no need to modify the sudoers file if you only want
> "all or nothing" access to sudo.  Users in the sudo group have full
> access and can use sudo to do anything.  Users not in the group have
> no access.
> 
> If you leave the root password empty during installation, your initial
> user account is added to the sudo group, and the sudo package is added
> to the list of packages to be installed.
> 
> If you install a desktop environment, the sudo package is also added
> to the list of packages to be installed.  Of course, in order to *use*
> it, you'll need to add users to the sudo group, or modify the sudoers
> file.
> 
>

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#229784

On Tue 15 Dec 2020 at 18:02:48 +0000, Gareth Evans wrote:

> It seems to me that Jerry may have mistakenly typed a user rather than root password at the su (not sudo) prompt at least once, but also used the correct (root) password at least once. 

I love the way you have completely misinterpretated and ignored what
Tixy said.

You then go on to make something up and base an argument on it.

Such is life!

-- 
Brian.

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#229778

On 12/15/2020 6:34 PM, Tixy wrote:
> On Tue, 2020-12-15 at 11:36 +0100, john doe wrote:
>> On 12/15/2020 10:19 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>>> On Lu, 14 dec 20, 19:45:54, Jerry Mellon wrote:
>>>> I finally got around to installing debian 10 on my 64bit system(thus
>>>> removing the i386version I had originally instaled). The install went
>>>> well and I asked for a seperate Home particion. When I booted the system
>>>> and try to do "apt-get update and apt-get upgrade" using "sudo" it would
>>>> not let me do that. Said I was not a sudo user. I then tried "su root"
>>>> which failed as well as it said I was not a sudo user. I went to the
>>>> sudouse file and changed it to make me a user. Sudo as myself worked
>>>> fine but su root still did not work.
>>>>
>>>> After seeing the email concering problems with sudo and su root I
>>>> decided to reload. I did but did a use whole disk (no home part).
>>>> After booting I did have to go to the sudouser file an change it again
>>>> but the su root worked with out a problem.
>>>
>>> You probably set a root password during install.
>>>
>>> The Debian Installer will configure 'sudo' for the first user only if
>>> you leave the root password blank. This is explained during the install.
>>
>> That doesn't look to be the case anymore, I just installed Buster with
>> Mate and sudo is installed.
>
> Because sudo is a recommended package of task-desktop, which is a
> dependency of task-mate-desktop. But if you gave it a root password
> during install then it didn't add the user you created at install time
> into the 'sudo' group, so no user can use sudo. (This does make me
> wonder why 'sudo' is recommended by task-desktop in the first place.)
>

Or at the very least, if  sudo is installed having it configured with
the user added to the sudo group regardless of if a root password is set.

--
John Doe

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#229782

On Tue 15 Dec 2020 at 19:33:53 +0100, john doe wrote:

> On 12/15/2020 6:34 PM, Tixy wrote:
> > On Tue, 2020-12-15 at 11:36 +0100, john doe wrote:
> > > On 12/15/2020 10:19 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > > On Lu, 14 dec 20, 19:45:54, Jerry Mellon wrote:
> > > > > I finally got around to installing debian 10 on my 64bit system(thus
> > > > > removing the i386version I had originally instaled). The install went
> > > > > well and I asked for a seperate Home particion. When I booted the system
> > > > > and try to do "apt-get update and apt-get upgrade" using "sudo" it would
> > > > > not let me do that. Said I was not a sudo user. I then tried "su root"
> > > > > which failed as well as it said I was not a sudo user. I went to the
> > > > > sudouse file and changed it to make me a user. Sudo as myself worked
> > > > > fine but su root still did not work.
> > > > > 
> > > > > After seeing the email concering problems with sudo and su root I
> > > > > decided to reload. I did but did a use whole disk (no home part).
> > > > > After booting I did have to go to the sudouser file an change it again
> > > > > but the su root worked with out a problem.
> > > > 
> > > > You probably set a root password during install.
> > > > 
> > > > The Debian Installer will configure 'sudo' for the first user only if
> > > > you leave the root password blank. This is explained during the install.
> > > 
> > > That doesn't look to be the case anymore, I just installed Buster with
> > > Mate and sudo is installed.
> > 
> > Because sudo is a recommended package of task-desktop, which is a
> > dependency of task-mate-desktop. But if you gave it a root password
> > during install then it didn't add the user you created at install time
> > into the 'sudo' group, so no user can use sudo. (This does make me
> > wonder why 'sudo' is recommended by task-desktop in the first place.)
> > 
> 
> Or at the very least, if  sudo is installed having it configured with
> the user added to the sudo group regardless of if a root password is set.

You are being obtuse.

d-i does not install sudo unless it is requested. That's the only point
at issue. It is the only thing that matters.

Why Mate chooses to install sudo is a different issue. It does not
invalidate

  > The Debian Installer will configure 'sudo' for the first
  > user only if you leave the root password blank. This is
  > explained during the install.

What a particular package does has no bearing on the design of d-i's
base system.

-- 
Brian.

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#229788

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

I was not offered to set a root passwd  during the last 2 Buster installs I did.  Admittedly,  with mateDE and MAYBE that makes a difference. Who's going to try it to prove the point? It'll be several days before I can.  Will do if I don't see somebody beat me to it. 
Keith BAINBRIDGE 
ke1thozgroups@gmx.com

Sent from my Aphone

On 15 December 2020 7:01:32 pm UTC, Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
>On Tue 15 Dec 2020 at 19:33:53 +0100, john doe wrote:
>
>> On 12/15/2020 6:34 PM, Tixy wrote:
>> > On Tue, 2020-12-15 at 11:36 +0100, john doe wrote:
>> > > On 12/15/2020 10:19 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>> > > > On Lu, 14 dec 20, 19:45:54, Jerry Mellon wrote:
>> > > > > I finally got around to installing debian 10 on my 64bit system(thus
>> > > > > removing the i386version I had originally instaled). The install went
>> > > > > well and I asked for a seperate Home particion. When I booted the system
>> > > > > and try to do "apt-get update and apt-get upgrade" using "sudo" it would
>> > > > > not let me do that. Said I was not a sudo user. I then tried "su root"
>> > > > > which failed as well as it said I was not a sudo user. I went to the
>> > > > > sudouse file and changed it to make me a user. Sudo as myself worked
>> > > > > fine but su root still did not work.
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > After seeing the email concering problems with sudo and su root I
>> > > > > decided to reload. I did but did a use whole disk (no home part).
>> > > > > After booting I did have to go to the sudouser file an change it again
>> > > > > but the su root worked with out a problem.
>> > > > 
>> > > > You probably set a root password during install.
>> > > > 
>> > > > The Debian Installer will configure 'sudo' for the first user only if
>> > > > you leave the root password blank. This is explained during the install.
>> > > 
>> > > That doesn't look to be the case anymore, I just installed Buster with
>> > > Mate and sudo is installed.
>> > 
>> > Because sudo is a recommended package of task-desktop, which is a
>> > dependency of task-mate-desktop. But if you gave it a root password
>> > during install then it didn't add the user you created at install time
>> > into the 'sudo' group, so no user can use sudo. (This does make me
>> > wonder why 'sudo' is recommended by task-desktop in the first place.)
>> > 
>> 
>> Or at the very least, if  sudo is installed having it configured with
>> the user added to the sudo group regardless of if a root password is set.
>
>You are being obtuse.
>
>d-i does not install sudo unless it is requested. That's the only point
>at issue. It is the only thing that matters.
>
>Why Mate chooses to install sudo is a different issue. It does not
>invalidate
>
>  > The Debian Installer will configure 'sudo' for the first
>  > user only if you leave the root password blank. This is
>  > explained during the install.
>
>What a particular package does has no bearing on the design of d-i's
>base system.
>
>-- 
>Brian.
>

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#229789

Keith Bainbridge wrote:

> I was not offered to set a root passwd  during the last 2 Buster installs
> I did.  Admittedly,  with mateDE and MAYBE that makes a difference. Who's
> going to try it to prove the point? It'll be several days before I can. 
> Will do if I don't see somebody beat me to it.

I ran the buster arm64 installer twice in QEMU last week (ncurses ui) and it
asks to set root pwd and to create a normal user account as it did always
before.

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#229790

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 12/16/20 2:09 AM, Keith Bainbridge wrote:
> I was not offered to set a root passwd during the last 2 Buster 
> installs I did. Admittedly, with mateDE and MAYBE that makes a 
> difference. Who's going to try it to prove the point? It'll be several 
> days before I can. Will do if I don't see somebody beat me to it.
> Keith BAINBRIDGE
I have done many installs recently, several machines, but am occupied 
this morning.
I believe the installation goes exactly as described in the manual, but 
there are always some details that don't fit.

https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.installation-steps.html#id-1.7.12.10

best of luck next time

> ke1thozgroups@gmx.com
>
> Sent from my Aphone
>
> On 15 December 2020 7:01:32 pm UTC, Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
>
>     On Tue 15 Dec 2020 at 19:33:53 +0100, john doe wrote:
>
>         On 12/15/2020 6:34 PM, Tixy wrote:
>
>             On Tue, 2020-12-15 at 11:36 +0100, john doe wrote:
>
>                 On 12/15/2020 10:19 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>
>                     On Lu, 14 dec 20, 19:45:54, Jerry Mellon wrote:
>
>                         I finally got around to installing debian 10
>                         on my 64bit system(thus removing the
>                         i386version I had originally instaled). The
>                         install went well and I asked for a seperate
>                         Home particion. When I booted the system and
>                         try to do "apt-get update and apt-get upgrade"
>                         using "sudo" it would not let me do that. Said
>                         I was not a sudo user. I then tried "su root"
>                         which failed as well as it said I was not a
>                         sudo user. I went to the sudouse file and
>                         changed it to make me a user. Sudo as myself
>                         worked fine but su root still did not work.
>                         After seeing the email concering problems with
>                         sudo and su root I decided to reload. I did
>                         but did a use whole disk (no home part). After
>                         booting I did have to go to the sudouser file
>                         an change it again but the su root worked with
>                         out a problem. 
>
>                     You probably set a root password during install.
>                     The Debian Installer will configure 'sudo' for the
>                     first user only if you leave the root password
>                     blank. This is explained during the install. 
>
>                 That doesn't look to be the case anymore, I just
>                 installed Buster with Mate and sudo is installed. 
>
>             Because sudo is a recommended package of task-desktop,
>             which is a dependency of task-mate-desktop. But if you
>             gave it a root password during install then it didn't add
>             the user you created at install time into the 'sudo'
>             group, so no user can use sudo. (This does make me wonder
>             why 'sudo' is recommended by task-desktop in the first
>             place.) 
>
>         Or at the very least, if sudo is installed having it
>         configured with the user added to the sudo group regardless of
>         if a root password is set. 
>
>
>     You are being obtuse.
>
>     d-i does not install sudo unless it is requested. That's the only point
>     at issue. It is the only thing that matters.
>
>     Why Mate chooses to install sudo is a different issue. It does not
>     invalidate
>
>         The Debian Installer will configure 'sudo' for the first user
>         only if you leave the root password blank. This is explained
>         during the install. 
>
>
>     What a particular package does has no bearing on the design of d-i's
>     base system.
>
>     -- Brian.
>

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