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Groups > linux.debian.user > #232827 > unrolled thread

How i can optimize my operating system?

Started byWilliam Torrez Corea <willitc9888@gmail.com>
First post2021-03-11 20:00 +0100
Last post2021-03-14 05:30 +0100
Articles 20 on this page of 128 — 32 participants

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Contents

  How i can optimize my operating system? William Torrez Corea <willitc9888@gmail.com> - 2021-03-11 20:00 +0100
    Re: How i can optimize my operating system? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-03-11 20:10 +0100
      Re: How i can optimize my operating system? William Torrez Corea <willitc9888@gmail.com> - 2021-03-11 20:30 +0100
        Re: How i can optimize my operating system? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-03-11 21:10 +0100
        Re: How i can optimize my operating system? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-03-11 22:10 +0100
          Re: How i can optimize my operating system? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-03-11 23:30 +0100
            Re: How i can optimize my operating system? Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2021-03-12 01:20 +0100
              Re: How i can optimize my operating system? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-03-12 12:40 +0100
                Re: How i can optimize my operating system? William Torrez Corea <willitc9888@gmail.com> - 2021-03-12 15:40 +0100
                  Re: How i can optimize my operating system? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-03-12 17:10 +0100
                    Re: How i can optimize my operating system? William Torrez Corea <willitc9888@gmail.com> - 2021-03-12 17:30 +0100
                    Re: How i can optimize my operating system? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-12 17:30 +0100
            Re: How i can optimize my operating system? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-03-12 08:10 +0100
              Re: How i can optimize my operating system? Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-03-12 08:20 +0100
                Re: How i can optimize my operating system? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-12 09:30 +0100
                  Re: How i can optimize my operating system? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-03-12 09:40 +0100
                    Re: How i can optimize my operating system? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-12 09:40 +0100
                      Re: How i can optimize my operating system? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-03-12 10:50 +0100
                        Re: How i can optimize my operating system? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-12 12:50 +0100
                          Re: How i can optimize my operating system? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-03-12 15:30 +0100
                  Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-03-12 10:40 +0100
                    Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-12 11:00 +0100
                    Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) Cindy Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2021-03-12 12:00 +0100
                      Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-12 13:00 +0100
                    Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-12 17:00 +0100
                      Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2021-03-12 17:20 +0100
                        Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2021-03-12 17:30 +0100
                          Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-12 18:30 +0100
                            Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-03-12 19:50 +0100
                              Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-12 22:50 +0100
                                Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-03-12 23:40 +0100
                              Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2021-03-13 19:40 +0100
                                Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) grumpy <grumpy@mailfence.com> - 2021-03-14 00:00 +0100
                                  Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-14 09:30 +0100
                            Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-13 08:30 +0100
                              Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-13 09:50 +0100
                                Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-03-18 04:00 +0100
                                  Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-03-18 05:10 +0100
                                    Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-18 09:40 +0100
                                      Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-03-18 23:20 +0100
                                        [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-03-19 01:00 +0100
                                          Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my  operating system?) Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-20 13:40 +0100
                                            Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-03-20 19:10 +0100
                                              Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my  operating system?) Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-21 09:00 +0100
                                                Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-03-21 11:50 +0100
                                                  Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my  operating system?) Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-03-21 13:10 +0100
                                                    Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-03-21 14:40 +0100
                                                      Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my  operating system?) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-03-21 14:50 +0100
                                                      Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my  operating system?) Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-03-22 03:40 +0100
                                                      Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-03-22 07:30 +0100
                                                        Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my  operating system?) Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-03-22 08:40 +0100
                                                        Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my  operating system?) Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-03-22 08:40 +0100
                                                        Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2021-03-22 08:50 +0100
                                                        Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my  operating system?) Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2021-03-22 09:10 +0100
                                                        Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-03-22 09:20 +0100
                                                          Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my  operating system?) Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-03-22 10:00 +0100
                                                            Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-03-22 10:10 +0100
                                                              Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my  operating system?) Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-03-22 10:20 +0100
                                                                Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-03-22 20:50 +0100
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my  operating system?) Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-03-22 21:00 +0100
                                                                    Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-03-22 21:20 +0100
                                                                      Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2021-03-22 21:40 +0100
                                                                        Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my  operating system?) Viktor Vogel <viktor@policy.redirectme.net> - 2021-03-23 17:10 +0100
                                                                          Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my   operating system?) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-03-23 19:20 +0100
                                                                          Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my  operating system?) ellanios82 <ellanios82@gmail.com> - 2021-03-23 20:30 +0100
                                                                            Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my  operating system?) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-03-23 21:50 +0100
                                                                      Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my  operating system?) Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-03-22 21:50 +0100
                                                                        Re: SERIOUSLY DANGEROUSLY OFF-TOPIC verb conjugation <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-23 09:30 +0100
                                                                          Re: SERIOUSLY DANGEROUSLY OFF-TOPIC verb conjugation Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-03-23 12:00 +0100
                                                            Re: System hacks more than one year. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-03-22 20:50 +0100
                                                              Re: System hacks more than one year. Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-03-22 21:20 +0100
                                                              Re: System hacks more than one year. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-03-22 21:20 +0100
                                                      Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my  operating system?) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-03-22 10:10 +0100
                                                Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my  operating system?) Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2021-05-08 14:20 +0200
                                                Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my  operating system?) Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-05-08 13:30 +0200
                                            Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-03-20 19:20 +0100
                                              Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my  operating system?) Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-21 09:30 +0100
                                            Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-03-20 20:40 +0100
                                              Re: [OT] Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-03-21 03:10 +0100
                                      Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-03-18 21:20 +0100
                                        Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-03-18 21:40 +0100
                                          [OT] Debian Offtopic (Was: Re: Social-media antipathy)) Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2021-03-18 22:00 +0100
                                  Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-18 09:30 +0100
                                    Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-18 10:00 +0100
                                      Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-18 11:20 +0100
                                    Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-03-18 15:10 +0100
                                      Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) riveravaldez <riveravaldezmail@gmail.com> - 2021-03-18 16:50 +0100
                                        Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) riveravaldez <riveravaldezmail@gmail.com> - 2021-03-18 17:00 +0100
                                        Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) riveravaldez <riveravaldezmail@gmail.com> - 2021-03-18 22:00 +0100
                                          Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-03-19 01:20 +0100
                                            Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-03-19 01:30 +0100
                                        Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-03-18 17:50 +0100
                                        Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-03-18 18:40 +0100
                                      Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) tomas@tuxteam.de - 2021-03-18 17:30 +0100
                                        Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-03-18 18:20 +0100
                                          Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2021-03-18 18:30 +0100
                              Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-03-13 15:10 +0100
                                Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-03-13 15:20 +0100
                                  Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-03-13 15:30 +0100
                                  Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-13 22:10 +0100
                                    Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-03-13 22:20 +0100
                                      Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-13 22:40 +0100
                                        Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-03-14 00:50 +0100
                                          Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Tom Yates <madhatter@teaparty.net> - 2021-03-14 07:30 +0100
                                            Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-14 11:20 +0100
                                          Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-14 09:50 +0100
                                            Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-14 12:10 +0100
                                              Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-14 12:20 +0100
                                                Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-14 13:10 +0100
                                                  Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-14 13:30 +0100
                                                    Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-03-14 15:50 +0100
                                                      Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-15 10:00 +0100
                                                        Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-15 10:10 +0100
                                                  Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-03-14 19:10 +0100
                                              Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-03-14 19:00 +0100
                                            Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-03-14 18:50 +0100
                          Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2021-03-12 18:50 +0100
                            Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Peter Hillier-Brook <phb@hbsys.plus.com> - 2021-03-12 20:10 +0100
                              Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) "Jeremy Nicoll" <jn.ml.dbn.25@letterboxes.org> - 2021-03-12 20:30 +0100
                                Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-03-12 20:40 +0100
                        Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-12 18:30 +0100
                        Re: Social-media antipathy Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-03-13 11:00 +0100
                          Re: Social-media antipathy Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-13 22:20 +0100
                            Re: Social-media antipathy "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2021-03-14 15:50 +0100
                      Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Will Mengarini <seldon@eskimo.com> - 2021-05-09 10:00 +0200
                    Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) grumpy <grumpy@mailfence.com> - 2021-03-12 20:40 +0100
                      Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating  system?) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-03-12 20:50 +0100
                    Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?) William Torrez Corea <willitc9888@gmail.com> - 2021-03-14 05:30 +0100

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#233231 — Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)

FromBrian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Date2021-03-18 21:40 +0100
SubjectRe: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)
Message-ID<BU7B0-1oT-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#233230
On Thu 18 Mar 2021 at 21:09:58 +0100, deloptes wrote:

> tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> > Come on, as soon as you go out to the street you can be run over by a
> > bus...
> > 
> > You'll still take some precautions, as it might enhance your odds of
> > survival :)
> > 
> >> Why should I bother with your encryption efforts, when I can read your
> >> screen?
> > 
> > This is a good point: one of the weak points of E2E encryptions is,
> > indeed, the one end. The other is... the other end ;-)
> 
> If I were to advise someone on using encryption I would recommend the
> isolated island solution.

Well worth considering. Isle of Man version is popular.

> As Snowden said do not use a phone with a microphone on it ;-)

How wise!

> Anything that is connected to a network is already compromised. If you are

I wish I had realised that before getting involved in this internet
stuff. 

> paranoid - isolate the machine where you read and write, encrypt and
> decrypt your messages! I was thinking of starting a crowdfund project for
> such a device, but no time to even draft a business plan.

Perhaps you and all the others could use -debian-offtopic to air
opinions about life and big-tech? I'll crowdfund the move there :).

Just a suggestion from someone who hasn't derived a single benefit
from this long-running conversation on privacy.

-- 
Brian.
> 
> 

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#233232 — [OT] Debian Offtopic (Was: Re: Social-media antipathy))

FromLinux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de>
Date2021-03-18 22:00 +0100
Subject[OT] Debian Offtopic (Was: Re: Social-media antipathy))
Message-ID<BU7Ul-1vc-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#233231

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Brian writes:

> On Thu 18 Mar 2021 at 21:09:58 +0100, deloptes wrote:

[...]

> > paranoid - isolate the machine where you read and write, encrypt and
> > decrypt your messages! I was thinking of starting a crowdfund project for
> > such a device, but no time to even draft a business plan.
>
> Perhaps you and all the others could use -debian-offtopic to air
> opinions about life and big-tech? I'll crowdfund the move there :).
>
> Just a suggestion from someone who hasn't derived a single benefit
> from this long-running conversation on privacy.

There used to be d-community-offtopic (IIRC), but as far as I remember, it  
was shut down a few years ago? Back when it still existed, I was subscribed.  
I have not heard of any new list since (that does not mean that none exists).

At least, the following link does no longer work:
https://alioth-lists.debian.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic

Linux-Fan

öö

[...]

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#233201 — Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)

From<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2021-03-18 09:30 +0100
SubjectRe: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)
Message-ID<BTWcx-2Va-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#233193

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:54:24PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Mar 2021 09:45:28 +0100
> <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 09:24:50AM +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> 
> ...
> 
> > >                              Fortunately most of the 
> > > conversations have been moving to WhatsApp (where they are supposed to
> > > be encrypted, at least).
> > 
> > Yeah, right. Encrypted. End-to-end. One of those ends is Facebook, though.
> > Ouch.
> 
> I'm not sure whether you're being serious or facetious, but WhatsApp
> apparently has genuine end-to-end encryption, using the Signal protocol,
> and neither of the ends is Facebook.

I am "hinting" at the subtle fact that FB bought WhatsApp for 19 billion
(same Wikipedia ref you gave). They are going to do whatever it takes
to make those investors happy. Quoting the same source:

   "In January 2021, WhatsApp announced a new Privacy Policy which
   users will be forced to accept by February 8, 2021, or stop
   using the app. The new policy will allow WhatsApp to share data
   with its parent, Facebook. The new policy does not apply in EU,
   since it violates the principles of GDPR. Facing a pushback about
   Facebook data sharing and lack of clarity, WhatsApp postponed the
   implementation of the privacy policy update scheduled from February
   8 2021 to May 15 2021."

So while I don't doubt that the WA client *could* *in principle*
do end-to-end encryption, they'll do whatever it takes to trick
end users to share their juicy data with the mothership, FB. It's
their life-blood.

Should they need help with that "tricking users to do silly things"
part, the mothership, FB, has expertise on that.

So if you do everything right, if you only communicate with a tight
knit group, if you check all the other's keys, yadda, yadda -- then
it'll possibly work (there are enough mentions of embarrasing bugs
on that Wikipedia page to underscore the "possibly" part, though).

But then you could do as well mail/gpg. The user interface is, at
least better, and the most egregious bugs might be shaken out by
now.

Cheers
 - t

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#233203 — Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)

FromAndrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
Date2021-03-18 10:00 +0100
SubjectRe: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)
Message-ID<BTWFz-34Q-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#233201

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Jo, 18 mar 21, 09:28:06, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> So while I don't doubt that the WA client *could* *in principle*
> do end-to-end encryption, they'll do whatever it takes to trick
> end users to share their juicy data with the mothership, FB. It's
> their life-blood.

I'm guessing the full list of contacts as well as all metadata is 
already very useful for Facebook.
 
> Should they need help with that "tricking users to do silly things"
> part, the mothership, FB, has expertise on that.
> 
> So if you do everything right, if you only communicate with a tight
> knit group, if you check all the other's keys, yadda, yadda -- then
> it'll possibly work (there are enough mentions of embarrasing bugs
> on that Wikipedia page to underscore the "possibly" part, though).

Yeah...

> But then you could do as well mail/gpg. The user interface is, at
> least better, and the most egregious bugs might be shaken out by
> now.

What (mobile) mail clients does your definition of "better" include 
(assuming they even support GPG/MIME)?

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#233204 — Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)

From<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2021-03-18 11:20 +0100
SubjectRe: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)
Message-ID<BTXUZ-3Zm-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#233203

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 10:55:54AM +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Jo, 18 mar 21, 09:28:06, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > 
> > So while I don't doubt that the WA client *could* *in principle*
> > do end-to-end encryption, they'll do whatever it takes to trick
> > end users to share their juicy data with the mothership, FB. It's
> > their life-blood.
> 
> I'm guessing the full list of contacts as well as all metadata is 
> already very useful for Facebook.

I'd guess they aren't (yet) in a comfortable position to really turn
conversation content into currency. That situation might be changing
slowly. The metadata, they'll take as much as they can, this is
established tech by now.

Once they think they need the content, they'll nudge their "users" [1]
in the right direction. Watch their weasel words around the last
change in their TOS (terms of service) for WhatsApp to see how it
works. Flexible response included :-)

> > Should they need help with that "tricking users to do silly things"

[...]

> Yeah...
> 
> > But then you could do as well mail/gpg. The user interface is, at
> > least better, and the most egregious bugs might be shaken out by
> > now.
> 
> What (mobile) mail clients does your definition of "better" include 
> (assuming they even support GPG/MIME)?

Ugh. I don't "do" mobile. I know, I should -- and be it that I should
be able to share my experience with others. But I've (up to now) found
way more pleasant ways to burn my time :-)

If "mobile" means "android", I've heard good things about K9 [1] [2]

[GAH. How I hate that Internet. A search for free mail clients lands
you into one of those horrible Tech Republic "10 best of"; they have
K9 mail in there (yay!) and the link goes to... no. Not the K9 page,
nor even the Wikipedia one. The Google play store. The whole friggin'
Internet is turning into a Google link farm]

Cheers

[1] https://k9mail.app/
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-9_Mail

-- t
> 
> Kind regards,
> Andrei
> -- 
> http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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#233209 — Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)

FromCelejar <celejar@gmail.com>
Date2021-03-18 15:10 +0100
SubjectRe: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)
Message-ID<BU1vz-6a1-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#233201
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 09:28:06 +0100
<tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:54:24PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> > On Sat, 13 Mar 2021 09:45:28 +0100
> > <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 09:24:50AM +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > 
> > ...
> > 
> > > >                              Fortunately most of the 
> > > > conversations have been moving to WhatsApp (where they are supposed to
> > > > be encrypted, at least).
> > > 
> > > Yeah, right. Encrypted. End-to-end. One of those ends is Facebook, though.
> > > Ouch.
> > 
> > I'm not sure whether you're being serious or facetious, but WhatsApp
> > apparently has genuine end-to-end encryption, using the Signal protocol,
> > and neither of the ends is Facebook.
> 
> I am "hinting" at the subtle fact that FB bought WhatsApp for 19 billion
> (same Wikipedia ref you gave). They are going to do whatever it takes
> to make those investors happy. Quoting the same source:
> 
>    "In January 2021, WhatsApp announced a new Privacy Policy which
>    users will be forced to accept by February 8, 2021, or stop
>    using the app. The new policy will allow WhatsApp to share data
>    with its parent, Facebook. The new policy does not apply in EU,
>    since it violates the principles of GDPR. Facing a pushback about
>    Facebook data sharing and lack of clarity, WhatsApp postponed the
>    implementation of the privacy policy update scheduled from February
>    8 2021 to May 15 2021."
> 
> So while I don't doubt that the WA client *could* *in principle*
> do end-to-end encryption, they'll do whatever it takes to trick
> end users to share their juicy data with the mothership, FB. It's
> their life-blood.
> 
> Should they need help with that "tricking users to do silly things"
> part, the mothership, FB, has expertise on that.
> 
> So if you do everything right, if you only communicate with a tight
> knit group, if you check all the other's keys, yadda, yadda -- then
> it'll possibly work (there are enough mentions of embarrasing bugs
> on that Wikipedia page to underscore the "possibly" part, though).

I definitely share your concerns about Facebook (although perhaps not
quite your vehemence), but making blatantly incorrect assertions like
the claim that Facebook is one of the ends of WhatsApp's E2E encryption
does not help our cause.

I suppose you're a follower of Sen. Goldwater: "Extremism in defense of
liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.”

https://www.niskanencenter.org/on-the-saying-that-extremism-in-defense-of-liberty-is-no-vice/

(Teasing: I'm pretty sure your politics are diametrically opposed to
his.)

Celejar

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#233214 — Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)

Fromriveravaldez <riveravaldezmail@gmail.com>
Date2021-03-18 16:50 +0100
SubjectRe: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)
Message-ID<BU34l-6Xf-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#233209
I'm getting pretty confuse with these statements.

On 3/18/21, Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> wrote:
> (...)
> I definitely share your concerns about Facebook (although perhaps not
> quite your vehemence), but making **blatantly incorrect** assertions like
> the claim that Facebook is one of the ends of WhatsApp's E2E encryption
> does not help our cause.
(...)
> WhatsApp **apparently** has genuine end-to-end encryption, using the
> Signal protocol, and neither of the ends is Facebook.
>
> Of course, it's closed source, so **we can't know for sure what's really
> in there**, and I certainly won't use it, but as far as **anyone knows**, it
> is **the real deal**:

I added all the '**' to emphasize with precision what I find unacceptable.
Taking them as a whole they are simply absurd, in a very rigorous, logic
sense.

Am I wrong in this, and altogether they conform a serious and reasonable
argument?

Because as far as I used to know, once you put one foot in closed-source
clients territory you're no longer speaking about security but insecurity.
The whole discussion becomes irrelevant, you're simply **having faith**
- **in Facebook**, to make it even more intense - , which is, by definition,
the opposite of reason, science or self-verified-security.

Is that I'm completely wrong in this?

How can anyone **know** that WA's claimed E2E encryption is **the real
deal**?

Thanks a lot for any answers.
Kind regards.

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#233218 — Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)

Fromriveravaldez <riveravaldezmail@gmail.com>
Date2021-03-18 17:00 +0100
SubjectRe: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)
Message-ID<BU3e1-72m-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#233214
On 3/18/21, riveravaldez <riveravaldezmail@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm getting pretty confuse with these statements.
> (...)

Sorry to everybody, I forgot to fix the addresses...

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#233221 — Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)

Fromriveravaldez <riveravaldezmail@gmail.com>
Date2021-03-18 22:00 +0100
SubjectRe: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)
Message-ID<BU7Ul-1vc-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#233214
On 3/18/21, Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 12:49:27 -0300
> riveravaldez <riveravaldezmail@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm getting pretty confuse with these statements.
>>
>> On 3/18/21, Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > (...)
>> > I definitely share your concerns about Facebook (although perhaps not
>> > quite your vehemence), but making **blatantly incorrect** assertions
>> > like
>> > the claim that Facebook is one of the ends of WhatsApp's E2E encryption
>> > does not help our cause.
>> (...)
>> > WhatsApp **apparently** has genuine end-to-end encryption, using the
>> > Signal protocol, and neither of the ends is Facebook.
>> >
>> > Of course, it's closed source, so **we can't know for sure what's
>> > really
>> > in there**, and I certainly won't use it, but as far as **anyone
>> > knows**, it
>> > is **the real deal**:
>>
>> I added all the '**' to emphasize with precision what I find
>> unacceptable.
>> Taking them as a whole they are simply absurd, in a very rigorous, logic
>> sense.
>>
>> Am I wrong in this, and altogether they conform a serious and reasonable
>> argument?
>>
>> Because as far as I used to know, once you put one foot in closed-source
>> clients territory you're no longer speaking about security but
>> insecurity.
>> The whole discussion becomes irrelevant, you're simply **having faith**
>> - **in Facebook**, to make it even more intense - , which is, by
>> definition,
>> the opposite of reason, science or self-verified-security.
>>
>> Is that I'm completely wrong in this?
>>
>> How can anyone **know** that WA's claimed E2E encryption is **the real
>> deal**?
>
> I agree that no one "knows," in the sense of absolute epistemological
> certainty. (...)

I wasn't "asking" for that much, in fact, that category of 'certainty'
is probably
unachievable (even more, in scientific terms, it's probably a misconception).
Just the difference between an open-source code more or less checked,
audited and edited-in-collaboration by certain community (and with the
inherent risk of being transparent if you pretend to inject anything malicious),
against a closed-source code, completely and perfectly obscure, for which
nobody have no kind of access, and which direction and actions are solely
decided by the profit interest of some number of shareholders, specially
when its profit mechanism relies specifically in the capture and collection of
as much as possible user's data, etc.
I'm sorry that my English is pretty poor and rustic but maybe with a little of
good intention this is clear enough.

> (...) someone might reasonably assume that if Moxie talks
> like this about WhatsApp, then it is likely trustworthy:
>
> https://signal.org/blog/whatsapp/
> https://signal.org/blog/whatsapp-complete/
>
> (Of course, the first one is from around the very beginning of the
> Facebook days, and the second one is still five years ago.)

Five years, in this matter, is an unacceptable amount of time to consider,
at least in my opinion, we could be talking about a completely different code.
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

> (...) The bottom line: no, I don't "know" that WhatsApp is secure, but
> neither do I "know" that anything I run is. (...)

To put it simply, I can't accept the idea that in terms of security or privacy
"community driven open-source and corporation-profit driven closed-source
software are perfectly comparable or even the same". I think such an
implication is blatantly false, and to deal with it is to shore crazyland...

But again, I'm always sincerely open to be corrected.

Kind regards.

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#233234 — Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)

FromCelejar <celejar@gmail.com>
Date2021-03-19 01:20 +0100
SubjectRe: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)
Message-ID<BUb1U-3xS-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#233221
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 17:53:13 -0300
riveravaldez <riveravaldezmail@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 3/18/21, Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> wrote:

...

> > (...) The bottom line: no, I don't "know" that WhatsApp is secure, but
> > neither do I "know" that anything I run is. (...)
> 
> To put it simply, I can't accept the idea that in terms of security or privacy
> "community driven open-source and corporation-profit driven closed-source
> software are perfectly comparable or even the same". I think such an
> implication is blatantly false, and to deal with it is to shore crazyland...

I certainly agree that they aren't "perfectly comparable or even the
same," and I certainly do trust open source software considerably more.
I was just objecting to absolutist claims that non-open source software
is completely untrustworthy - claims such as yours that trusting
Facebook is "the opposite of reason, science or
self-verified-security."

Celejar

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#233235 — Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)

Fromdeloptes <deloptes@gmail.com>
Date2021-03-19 01:30 +0100
SubjectRe: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)
Message-ID<BUbbz-3AU-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#233234
Celejar wrote:

> I certainly agree that they aren't "perfectly comparable or even the
> same," and I certainly do trust open source software considerably more.
> I was just objecting to absolutist claims that non-open source software
> is completely untrustworthy - claims such as yours that trusting
> Facebook is "the opposite of reason, science or
> self-verified-security."

The problem is, you don't know and when you don't know you can not say this
is trustworthy - or not trustworthy. You are willing to say something like
Adam Shiff (sorry but I just watched the stupid).
So the problem is we can not trust, because we do not know, while the
statement 
        Facebook is "the opposite of reason, science or self-verified-security."
has proven true many times.
I always ask myself why argumentation and logic is not evolving among
humans.
Your statement "I certainly do trust open source software considerably more"
is subjective - based on what evidence do you trust?
See - you qualify for the church - you believe. And I do not mind anything
negative, I myself go to church, but there is difference between I know
(And trust) and I believe or think. The later implicates modality, because
to be honest no one has read the code and there were many findings in the
past that show that also Linux OS and the applications have security
issues.
Please understand that in terms of ontology there is only one truth. The
rest is something between speculation and false.
There were even computers designed to operate with 3 states because of this.
 

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#233224 — Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)

FromJoe <joe@jretrading.com>
Date2021-03-18 17:50 +0100
SubjectRe: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)
Message-ID<BU40p-7C1-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#233214
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 12:49:27 -0300
riveravaldez <riveravaldezmail@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm getting pretty confuse with these statements.
> 
> On 3/18/21, Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> wrote:
> > (...)
> > I definitely share your concerns about Facebook (although perhaps
> > not quite your vehemence), but making **blatantly incorrect**
> > assertions like the claim that Facebook is one of the ends of
> > WhatsApp's E2E encryption does not help our cause.  
> (...)
> > WhatsApp **apparently** has genuine end-to-end encryption, using the
> > Signal protocol, and neither of the ends is Facebook.
> >
> > Of course, it's closed source, so **we can't know for sure what's
> > really in there**, and I certainly won't use it, but as far as
> > **anyone knows**, it is **the real deal**:  
> 
> I added all the '**' to emphasize with precision what I find
> unacceptable. Taking them as a whole they are simply absurd, in a
> very rigorous, logic sense.
> 
> Am I wrong in this, and altogether they conform a serious and
> reasonable argument?
> 
> Because as far as I used to know, once you put one foot in
> closed-source clients territory you're no longer speaking about
> security but insecurity. The whole discussion becomes irrelevant,
> you're simply **having faith**
> - **in Facebook**, to make it even more intense - , which is, by
> definition, the opposite of reason, science or self-verified-security.
> 
> Is that I'm completely wrong in this?

No.
> 
> How can anyone **know** that WA's claimed E2E encryption is **the real
> deal**?
> 

Not possible. Even if the original WA was clean, we can assume that any
updated version under new ownership will mine the maximum possible
amount of data.

If anyone doubts the lengths that some people will go to in order to
steal, look up Superfish, actually installed by Lenovo on new laptops a
few years ago. This is software designed and made to break https.

-- 
Joe

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#233227 — Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)

FromCelejar <celejar@gmail.com>
Date2021-03-18 18:40 +0100
SubjectRe: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)
Message-ID<BU4MN-88v-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#233214
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 12:49:27 -0300
riveravaldez <riveravaldezmail@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm getting pretty confuse with these statements.
> 
> On 3/18/21, Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> wrote:
> > (...)
> > I definitely share your concerns about Facebook (although perhaps not
> > quite your vehemence), but making **blatantly incorrect** assertions like
> > the claim that Facebook is one of the ends of WhatsApp's E2E encryption
> > does not help our cause.
> (...)
> > WhatsApp **apparently** has genuine end-to-end encryption, using the
> > Signal protocol, and neither of the ends is Facebook.
> >
> > Of course, it's closed source, so **we can't know for sure what's really
> > in there**, and I certainly won't use it, but as far as **anyone knows**, it
> > is **the real deal**:
> 
> I added all the '**' to emphasize with precision what I find unacceptable.
> Taking them as a whole they are simply absurd, in a very rigorous, logic
> sense.
> 
> Am I wrong in this, and altogether they conform a serious and reasonable
> argument?
> 
> Because as far as I used to know, once you put one foot in closed-source
> clients territory you're no longer speaking about security but insecurity.
> The whole discussion becomes irrelevant, you're simply **having faith**
> - **in Facebook**, to make it even more intense - , which is, by definition,
> the opposite of reason, science or self-verified-security.
> 
> Is that I'm completely wrong in this?
> 
> How can anyone **know** that WA's claimed E2E encryption is **the real
> deal**?

I agree that no one "knows," in the sense of absolute epistemological
certainty. But we don't live our lives based upon epistemological
certainty - we make assumptions, or assign rough probabilistic weights
to the likelihood of various things.

Is an open source communications software package worthless if the
hardware it's running on isn't open and hasn't been audited? You
certainly can't "know" that it's secure! And even if all your hardware
and software is open, if you haven't audited it *yourself*, how can you
"know" it's secure? The answer is trust - you trust that someone would
notice problems if there are any, and that the auditors aren't lying,
and you assign a low probability to the contrary possibilities.

In the same vein, someone might reasonably assume that if Moxie talks
like this about WhatsApp, then it is likely trustworthy:

https://signal.org/blog/whatsapp/
https://signal.org/blog/whatsapp-complete/

(Of course, the first one is from around the very beginning of the
Facebook days, and the second one is still five years ago.)

The bottom line: no, I don't "know" that WhatsApp is secure, but
neither do I "know" that anything I run is. One makes decisions about
what to use based upon a variety of criteria, including how much one
trusts various people and institutions.

And FWIW, I don't use WhatsApp, in part because I don't trust it /
Facebook - but not primarily because I think they may be blatantly lying
about E2E, but more because of more subtle implementation details and
decisions that I, who am not a cryptographer, won't even think to
consider or fully understand.

Celejar

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#233223 — Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)

Fromtomas@tuxteam.de
Date2021-03-18 17:30 +0100
SubjectRe: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)
Message-ID<BU3H4-7uo-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#233209

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 10:07:08AM -0400, Celejar wrote:

[...]

> I definitely share your concerns about Facebook (although perhaps not
> quite your vehemence),

:-)

>                        but making blatantly incorrect assertions like
> the claim that Facebook is one of the ends of WhatsApp's E2E encryption
> does not help our cause.

I don't know. I just don't trust them. Much less after their change in
terms of service. I tried to explain this in another mail: possibly,
under the right conditions, E2E is a thing in WhatsApp. Possibly,
making those "right conditions" happen is less-than-trivial for the
user.

> I suppose you're a follower of Sen. Goldwater: "Extremism in defense of
> liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.”

(veering dangerously off-topic, so this is my last word on
this specific thing)

That depends on how you define extremism, I guess. I'm not for
throwing stones at a human being (nor in general for causing
harm). But choosing which corporation I trust... doesn't quite
feel "extremist" to me ;-)

> https://www.niskanencenter.org/on-the-saying-that-extremism-in-defense-of-liberty-is-no-vice/
> 
> (Teasing: I'm pretty sure your politics are diametrically opposed to
> his.)

Possibly. I've been doing too much framework javascript today. I
dont feel like adding pain to that, so I'll skip the link :-D

Cheers
 - t

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#233225 — Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)

FromCelejar <celejar@gmail.com>
Date2021-03-18 18:20 +0100
SubjectRe: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)
Message-ID<BU4tr-80Y-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#233223
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 17:25:48 +0100
tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 10:07:08AM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > I definitely share your concerns about Facebook (although perhaps not
> > quite your vehemence),
> 
> :-)
> 
> >                        but making blatantly incorrect assertions like
> > the claim that Facebook is one of the ends of WhatsApp's E2E encryption
> > does not help our cause.
> 
> I don't know. I just don't trust them. Much less after their change in
> terms of service. I tried to explain this in another mail: possibly,

I certainly don't trust them, either.

> under the right conditions, E2E is a thing in WhatsApp. Possibly,
> making those "right conditions" happen is less-than-trivial for the
> user.
> 
> > I suppose you're a follower of Sen. Goldwater: "Extremism in defense of
> > liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.”
> 
> (veering dangerously off-topic, so this is my last word on
> this specific thing)
> 
> That depends on how you define extremism, I guess. I'm not for
> throwing stones at a human being (nor in general for causing
> harm). But choosing which corporation I trust... doesn't quite
> feel "extremist" to me ;-)

Well said.

> > https://www.niskanencenter.org/on-the-saying-that-extremism-in-defense-of-liberty-is-no-vice/
> > 
> > (Teasing: I'm pretty sure your politics are diametrically opposed to
> > his.)
> 
> Possibly. I've been doing too much framework javascript today. I
> dont feel like adding pain to that, so I'll skip the link :-D

I don't know what framework javascript is, but whatever it is, you have
my sympathy ;)

Celejar

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#233226 — Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)

From"James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com>
Date2021-03-18 18:30 +0100
SubjectRe: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)
Message-ID<BU4D8-849-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#233225
Suffice it to say that the only Social Media outfit I trust less than I 
trust Facebook or Twitter (neither of which I trust any further than I 
can throw the U.S.S. Hornet) is LinkedIn. Which I have loathed since 
*before* they became a wholly-owned subsidiary of Microsloth.

--
JHHL
(I'd use a stronger dysphemism for M$, but I don't know this List's 
policy about Yiddish profanity.)

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#232974 — Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)

FromStefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Date2021-03-13 15:10 +0100
SubjectRe: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)
Message-ID<BSd7Q-2jM-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#232959
> Besides the social part of asking *everybody* *else* to switch I'm also 
> not aware of a viable <something else>. Fortunately most of the 
> conversations have been moving to WhatsApp (where they are supposed to
> be encrypted, at least).

W.r.t. something else, I don't know anything comparable to Facebook
(which isn't saying much since I never used Facebook and never looked
for something like it), but there are several alternatives to WhatsApp
(I'm using Matrix for that).


        Stefan

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#232978 — Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)

FromThe Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm>
Date2021-03-13 15:20 +0100
SubjectRe: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)
Message-ID<BSdhw-2nW-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#232974

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On 2021-03-13 at 09:01, Stefan Monnier wrote:

>> Besides the social part of asking *everybody* *else* to switch I'm
>> also not aware of a viable <something else>. Fortunately most of
>> the conversations have been moving to WhatsApp (where they are
>> supposed to be encrypted, at least).
> 
> W.r.t. something else, I don't know anything comparable to Facebook 
> (which isn't saying much since I never used Facebook and never
> looked for something like it), but there are several alternatives to
> WhatsApp (I'm using Matrix for that).

https://www.xkcd.com/918/

Time was that'd have been a serious suggestion, but as
https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/918:_Google%2B points out,
it's not an option anymore; Google shut it down (for the general public,
at least) a couple of years ago.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

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#232979 — Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)

FromStefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Date2021-03-13 15:30 +0100
SubjectRe: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)
Message-ID<BSdrb-39T-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#232978
>>> Besides the social part of asking *everybody* *else* to switch I'm
>>> also not aware of a viable <something else>. Fortunately most of
>>> the conversations have been moving to WhatsApp (where they are
>>> supposed to be encrypted, at least).
>> W.r.t. something else, I don't know anything comparable to Facebook 
>> (which isn't saying much since I never used Facebook and never
>> looked for something like it), but there are several alternatives to
>> WhatsApp (I'm using Matrix for that).
>
> https://www.xkcd.com/918/
>
> Time was that'd have been a serious suggestion, but as
> https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/918:_Google%2B points out,
> it's not an option anymore; Google shut it down (for the general public,
> at least) a couple of years ago.

I was talking about alternatives which don't suffer from the same
underlying problem of centralization.  E.g. Matrix is a *protocol*, with
a Free Software implementation of it available in Debian, so you can run
your own (e.g. as part of FreedomBox), and it can be used to communicate
with users of other Matrix servers as well (using basically the same
model as email), and there are several different clients available, most
of them Free Software as well (and some of them included in Debian).


        Stefan

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#232994 — Re: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)

FromAndrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
Date2021-03-13 22:10 +0100
SubjectRe: Social-media antipathy (was Re: How i can optimize my operating system?)
Message-ID<BSjGh-o8-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#232978

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On Sb, 13 mar 21, 09:10:36, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2021-03-13 at 09:01, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> 
> >> Besides the social part of asking *everybody* *else* to switch I'm
> >> also not aware of a viable <something else>. Fortunately most of
> >> the conversations have been moving to WhatsApp (where they are
> >> supposed to be encrypted, at least).
> > 
> > W.r.t. something else, I don't know anything comparable to Facebook 
> > (which isn't saying much since I never used Facebook and never
> > looked for something like it), but there are several alternatives to
> > WhatsApp (I'm using Matrix for that).

Well, I'd be very interested to look into Matrix.

Tried connecting to the matrix.debian.social server: with the 2 clients 
in buster I tried I couldn't find a way to specify SSO[1]. The Android 
client did recognize the server is using SSO, but I got some error after 
login.

I'll stick with Signal for now, at least it's something that I can 
confidently recommend to people as "WhatsApp, but really 
secure/private".
 
> https://www.xkcd.com/918/
> 
> Time was that'd have been a serious suggestion, but as
> https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/918:_Google%2B points out,
> it's not an option anymore; Google shut it down (for the general public,
> at least) a couple of years ago.

Had an account and tried to promote it at the time[3]. Maybe it's better 
it didn't succeed though.

Unfortunately the only resemblance of a FLOSS alternative is diaspora, 
which besides an unfortunate name[4] it still misses a lot of 
functionality. Apparently most developers only care about the micro 
blogging part, or which there are already several FLOSS alternatives.


[1] As per [2], it authenticates against salsa.debian.org, where I 
already do have an account
[2] https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianSocial
[3] Yes, I know, Google, but it was worth a try to break Facebook's 
monopoly.
[4] While most of my close family is in the diaspora, most of my friends 
are not.


Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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