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on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

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  on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-07 06:10 +0100
    Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-07 06:10 +0100
      Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2021-03-07 07:50 +0100
        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-03-07 11:10 +0100
          Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 17:50 +0100
        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-03-07 19:20 +0100
          Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? John Boxall <jboxall47@gmail.com> - 2021-03-07 19:50 +0100
          Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-03-07 23:50 +0100
            Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-03-08 00:10 +0100
              Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-03-08 02:30 +0100
              Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-03-08 14:30 +0100
      Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-07 09:50 +0100
        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-07 10:00 +0100
        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-03-07 19:20 +0100
          Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-03-07 20:00 +0100
            Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-09 11:00 +0100
              Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-03-09 16:00 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-09 17:00 +0100
                  Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-03-09 18:50 +0100
                    Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-10 11:00 +0100
        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-03-07 20:10 +0100
          Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-07 20:20 +0100
      Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-03-07 18:00 +0100
        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-07 19:10 +0100
    Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-03-07 14:20 +0100
      Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-07 19:00 +0100
        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-07 20:10 +0100
          Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 01:10 +0100
            Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-03-08 01:20 +0100
              Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 01:40 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-03-08 02:40 +0100
                  Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-03-08 03:10 +0100
                    Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-03-08 03:40 +0100
                      Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-03-09 05:40 +0100
                        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-03-09 06:20 +0100
                          Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-03-09 14:20 +0100
                            Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-03-09 14:40 +0100
                              Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-10 11:00 +0100
                                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-03-10 12:30 +0100
                            Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-03-09 18:10 +0100
                              Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-03-09 22:20 +0100
                        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-03-09 16:10 +0100
                          Modem MACs and how ISPs view them, was Re: on the verge of … David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-03-09 22:00 +0100
                            Re: Modem MACs and how ISPs view them, was Re: on the verge of … Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2021-03-09 22:20 +0100
                            Re: Modem MACs and how ISPs view them, was Re: on the verge of … IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-03-10 00:10 +0100
                            Re: Modem MACs and how ISPs view them, was Re: on the verge of   … rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-03-10 00:20 +0100
            Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 01:30 +0100
              Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 01:40 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 01:50 +0100
                  Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 02:00 +0100
                    Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 02:10 +0100
                      Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-03-08 02:40 +0100
                        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 02:40 +0100
                        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2021-03-08 18:30 +0100
                  Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 02:00 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-09 11:20 +0100
              Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Doug McGarrett <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2021-03-08 09:20 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 14:00 +0100
            Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-08 01:30 +0100
              Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 01:50 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-08 02:30 +0100
                  Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 04:10 +0100
                    Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-08 22:20 +0100
                      Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-03-08 23:00 +0100
                      Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-10 00:20 +0100
                        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-10 01:00 +0100
                          Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-10 01:30 +0100
                            Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-10 03:30 +0100
                          Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Doug McGarrett <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2021-03-10 06:20 +0100
          Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-03-08 20:40 +0100
            Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-08 23:10 +0100
    Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? ghe2001 <ghe2001@protonmail.com> - 2021-03-07 20:10 +0100
      Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-07 20:50 +0100
        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-03-07 22:00 +0100
          Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-03-07 22:10 +0100
            Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-03-07 22:30 +0100
              Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-03-07 22:50 +0100
              Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-03-07 22:50 +0100
          Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-08 01:10 +0100
            Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-03-08 01:20 +0100
              Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-03-08 01:40 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-03-08 03:00 +0100
                  Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,          recommendations? Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2021-03-08 03:40 +0100
                    Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-03-08 05:00 +0100
                      Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-03-08 11:40 +0100
                        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-03-08 14:40 +0100
                          Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Peter Ehlert <peter@sdi-baja.com> - 2021-03-08 15:10 +0100
                            power limiting via system controls (was: on the verge of ... songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-03-08 17:20 +0100
                              Re: power limiting via system controls (was: on the verge of ... Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-03-08 18:10 +0100
                                Re: power limiting via system controls (was: on the verge of ... songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-03-09 02:10 +0100
                              Re: power limiting via system controls (was: on the verge of ... David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-08 22:40 +0100
                                Re: power limiting via system controls (was: on the verge of ... songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-03-09 02:20 +0100
                          Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-08 23:40 +0100
                        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2021-03-08 19:40 +0100
                          Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,          recommendations? Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2021-03-08 21:20 +0100
                            Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2021-03-09 09:10 +0100
                    Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-03-08 11:40 +0100
                      Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,          recommendations? Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2021-03-08 13:10 +0100
                    Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-03-08 11:40 +0100
              Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-08 01:40 +0100

Page 4 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5  Next page →

#232526 — Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

On 3/7/21 4:45 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 4:27 PM David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 3/7/21 4:02 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:

>>> The reason for the two networks is that my modem-router is electrically
>>> incompatible with one of my computers.  That computer freezes or
>> otherwise
>>> misbehaves when one of its ethernet ports is on a network which also has
>>> the modem-router.

>> What a PITA.  Have you tried putting a network interface card into the
>> problematic computer so that you can run one LAN?
>>
> 
> Actually, the problematic computer has two ethernet ports on it, but it is
> a mac, so not so clear how to get a network interface card into it.


What model mac?


Are the two Ethernet ports factory original?  If not, what make/ model?


What OS?  Have you tried reinstalling?  Have you tried any other OS's?


David

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#232535

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On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 5:25 PM David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com>
wrote:

> On 3/7/21 4:45 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
> > On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 4:27 PM David Christensen <
> dpchrist@holgerdanske.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 3/7/21 4:02 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
>
> >>> The reason for the two networks is that my modem-router is electrically
> >>> incompatible with one of my computers.  That computer freezes or
> >> otherwise
> >>> misbehaves when one of its ethernet ports is on a network which also
> has
> >>> the modem-router.
>
> >> What a PITA.  Have you tried putting a network interface card into the
> >> problematic computer so that you can run one LAN?
> >>
> >
> > Actually, the problematic computer has two ethernet ports on it, but it
> is
> > a mac, so not so clear how to get a network interface card into it.
>
>
> What model mac?
>

It's a mac pro.


>
>
> Are the two Ethernet ports factory original?  If not, what make/ model?
>

They're original.


>
>
> What OS?  Have you tried reinstalling?  Have you tried any other OS's?
>

It's 10.6.8

Entirely apart from its black box nature, i'm constrained from repurposing
it.  In some ways it is very thoughtfully put together, but it's not part
of the free world.

dan

>
>
> David
>
>

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#232559 — Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

On 3/7/21 7:09 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 5:25 PM David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 3/7/21 4:45 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
>>> On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 4:27 PM David Christensen <
>> dpchrist@holgerdanske.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/7/21 4:02 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
>>
>>>>> The reason for the two networks is that my modem-router is electrically
>>>>> incompatible with one of my computers.  That computer freezes or
>>>> otherwise
>>>>> misbehaves when one of its ethernet ports is on a network which also
>> has
>>>>> the modem-router.
>>
>>>> What a PITA.  Have you tried putting a network interface card into the
>>>> problematic computer so that you can run one LAN?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Actually, the problematic computer has two ethernet ports on it, but it
>>> is a mac, so not so clear how to get a network interface card into it.
>>
>>
>> What model mac?
>>
> 
> It's a mac pro.


Marketing terms are for separating the rubes from their dollars:

"it is a mac"

"It's a mac pro"


When posting on a technical mailing list, please include the relevant 
engineering identifiers when referring to hardware or software items -- 
e.g. alphanumeric codes variously named "model number", "part number", 
"assembly number", "serial number", "architecture", "revision", etc.. 
Doing so demonstrates your competence and your respect for the readers' 
time.


David

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#232563 — Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

David Christensen composed on 2021-03-08 13:11 (UTC-0800):

>>> What model mac?

>> It's a mac pro.

> Marketing terms are for separating the rubes from their dollars:

> "it is a mac"

> "It's a mac pro"

> When posting on a technical mailing list, please include the relevant 
> engineering identifiers when referring to hardware or software items -- 
> e.g. alphanumeric codes variously named "model number", "part number", 
> "assembly number", "serial number", "architecture", "revision", etc.. 
> Doing so demonstrates your competence and your respect for the readers' 
> time.
										
+ + +
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools, like religion,
	is based on faith, not on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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#232614

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On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 1:12 PM David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com>
wrote:

> On 3/7/21 7:09 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
> > On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 5:25 PM David Christensen <
> dpchrist@holgerdanske.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 3/7/21 4:45 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
> >>> On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 4:27 PM David Christensen <
> >> dpchrist@holgerdanske.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 3/7/21 4:02 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
> >>
> >>>>> The reason for the two networks is that my modem-router is
> electrically
> >>>>> incompatible with one of my computers.  That computer freezes or
> >>>> otherwise
> >>>>> misbehaves when one of its ethernet ports is on a network which also
> >> has
> >>>>> the modem-router.
> >>
> >>>> What a PITA.  Have you tried putting a network interface card into the
> >>>> problematic computer so that you can run one LAN?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Actually, the problematic computer has two ethernet ports on it, but it
> >>> is a mac, so not so clear how to get a network interface card into it.
> >>
> >>
> >> What model mac?
> >>
> >
> > It's a mac pro.
>
>
> Marketing terms are for separating the rubes from their dollars:
>
> "it is a mac"
>
> "It's a mac pro"
>

The separation was done successfully :) :)


>
>
> When posting on a technical mailing list, please include the relevant
> engineering identifiers when referring to hardware or software items --
> e.g. alphanumeric codes variously named "model number", "part number",
> "assembly number", "serial number", "architecture", "revision", etc..
> Doing so demonstrates your competence and your respect for the readers'
> time.
>

I don't have a good way to copy/paste information from the mac gui --- is
there
a shell command that i can run that could identify the exact model?
('uname' only
identifies the software; the mac does not seem to have a 'lscpu' command.)

And thanks for your help!


>
>
> David
>
>

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#232626 — Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

On 3/9/21 3:15 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 1:12 PM David Christensen wrote:
>> On 3/7/21 7:09 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
>>> On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 5:25 PM David Christensen <

>>>> What model mac?

>>> It's a mac pro.

>> When posting on a technical mailing list, please include the relevant
>> engineering identifiers when referring to hardware or software items --
>> e.g. alphanumeric codes variously named "model number", "part number",
>> "assembly number", "serial number", "architecture", "revision", etc..

> I don't have a good way to copy/paste information from the mac gui --- is
> there
> a shell command that i can run that could identify the exact model?
> ('uname' only
> identifies the software; the mac does not seem to have a 'lscpu' command.)


The identifying information should be engraved into the chassis, a 
nameplate, a sticker, etc..


David

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#232636

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On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 3:50 PM David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com>
wrote:

> On 3/9/21 3:15 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 1:12 PM David Christensen wrote:
> >> On 3/7/21 7:09 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
> >>> On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 5:25 PM David Christensen <
>
> >>>> What model mac?
>
> >>> It's a mac pro.
>
> >> When posting on a technical mailing list, please include the relevant
> >> engineering identifiers when referring to hardware or software items --
> >> e.g. alphanumeric codes variously named "model number", "part number",
> >> "assembly number", "serial number", "architecture", "revision", etc..
>
> > I don't have a good way to copy/paste information from the mac gui --- is
> > there
> > a shell command that i can run that could identify the exact model?
> > ('uname' only
> > identifies the software; the mac does not seem to have a 'lscpu'
> command.)
>
>
> The identifying information should be engraved into the chassis, a
> nameplate, a sticker, etc..
>
>
Hi David,

Thanks for your mail.

I looked around on the box and did not see any writing or engraving.

However, i was wrong about copying from the gui.  It is possible to copy
some of the identifying strings, although naturally i would prefer to use
the command line to get the info.

The model is "HL-DT-ST DVD-RW GH41N", revision "PQ04".  It is from a long
time ago (at least 13 years old), but the machine still mostly runs fine
for what we use it for.   It is all original equipment except for the disk
drives, one of which is an SSD.  At the time i already did not like to buy
into closed technology but circumstances forced my hand, or so i thought.
For a job i had a few years ago i was issued a much newer mac, a laptop,
which was very fancy, but also had trouble with my modem router [i do not
have that laptop, so i don't know about the model].  Separating the modem
router from the box with a switch does not help, but it does work on a
separate LAN.  The ethernet hardware is identified as PCI, Intel 82574L.
There are two ports.

So the situation is not exactly ideal, but i can live with it.

And thanks for your help and ideas! :) :)


>
> David
>
>

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#232641 — Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

On 3/9/21 4:25 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 3:50 PM David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 3/9/21 3:15 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 1:12 PM David Christensen wrote:
>>>> On 3/7/21 7:09 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 5:25 PM David Christensen <
>>
>>>>>> What model mac?
>>
>>>>> It's a mac pro.

> I looked around on the box and did not see any writing or engraving.
> 
> However, i was wrong about copying from the gui.  It is possible to copy
> some of the identifying strings, although naturally i would prefer to use
> the command line to get the info.
> 
> The model is "HL-DT-ST DVD-RW GH41N", revision "PQ04".  It is from a long
> time ago (at least 13 years old), but the machine still mostly runs fine
> for what we use it for.   It is all original equipment except for the disk
> drives, one of which is an SSD.  At the time i already did not like to buy
> into closed technology but circumstances forced my hand, or so i thought.
> For a job i had a few years ago i was issued a much newer mac, a laptop,
> which was very fancy, but also had trouble with my modem router [i do not
> have that laptop, so i don't know about the model].  Separating the modem
> router from the box with a switch does not help, but it does work on a
> separate LAN.  The ethernet hardware is identified as PCI, Intel 82574L.
> There are two ports.
> 
> So the situation is not exactly ideal, but i can live with it.
> 
> And thanks for your help and ideas! :) :)


Look at:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201581

https://everymac.com/mac-identification/index-how-to-identify-my-mac.html


13+ years old -- Wikipedia says it is a first generation Mac Pro and 
cannot be upgraded to the current macOS:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_pro


If you cannot upgrade it to the current macOS (11.2.2), I would sell it. 
  If you need an Apple computer, get a newer one that supports the 
current macOS.


David

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#232649 — Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

On 3/9/21 6:50 PM, David Christensen wrote:
> On 3/9/21 3:15 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 1:12 PM David Christensen wrote:
>>> On 3/7/21 7:09 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
>>>> On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 5:25 PM David Christensen <
>
>>>>> What model mac?
>
>>>> It's a mac pro.
>
>>> When posting on a technical mailing list, please include the relevant
>>> engineering identifiers when referring to hardware or software items --
>>> e.g. alphanumeric codes variously named "model number", "part number",
>>> "assembly number", "serial number", "architecture", "revision", etc..
>
>> I don't have a good way to copy/paste information from the mac gui 
>> --- is
>> there
>> a shell command that i can run that could identify the exact model?
>> ('uname' only
>> identifies the software; the mac does not seem to have a 'lscpu' 
>> command.)
>
>
> The identifying information should be engraved into the chassis, a 
> nameplate, a sticker, etc..
>
>
> David
>
Getting back to the original question: I recommend finding a machine, if 
possible, with a built-in DVD drive.
It makes installing a new system straightforward, and allows you to copy 
media, including music for
your car player, without having to buy an external usb dvd drive.
--doug

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#232557 — Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

David Christensen wrote: 
> I built homebrew desktops using Antec tower cases and Intel desktop boards
> for many years.  The last was based on a Sonata chassis with an included 500
> W PSU.  It's very easy to add/ remove drives and has low noise features --
> the four internal 3.5" drive bays feature vibration isolation grommets, the
> main cooling fan is large diameter with selectable RPM, the PSU fan is speed
> controlled, etc..  An Intel single-socket ATX server board and Antec
> "silent" tower chassis would be a good starting point.  I would buy a new
> chassis, rather than used; so that no parts are missing.

Intel made pretty good motherboards, but they stopped in 2015.

-dsr-

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#232564 — Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

On 3/8/21 11:39 AM, Dan Ritter wrote:
> David Christensen wrote:
>> I built homebrew desktops using Antec tower cases and Intel desktop boards
>> for many years.  The last was based on a Sonata chassis with an included 500
>> W PSU.  It's very easy to add/ remove drives and has low noise features --
>> the four internal 3.5" drive bays feature vibration isolation grommets, the
>> main cooling fan is large diameter with selectable RPM, the PSU fan is speed
>> controlled, etc..  An Intel single-socket ATX server board and Antec
>> "silent" tower chassis would be a good starting point.  I would buy a new
>> chassis, rather than used; so that no parts are missing.
> 
> Intel made pretty good motherboards, but they stopped in 2015.


Yes, Intel desktop boards were good products.  I put used Intel server 
board/ CPU/ memory combos into two machines prior to the pandemic and am 
very pleased with them.  Since the pandemic, good parts are hard to find 
and pricing has become aggressive.


David

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#232499

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Hash: SHA256






‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Saturday, March 6, 2021 9:59 PM, Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think that i will need to get new desktop hardware, so i'm trying to figure out what to do.
>
> When i got my last hardware, one challenge was UEFI booting, iirc.  After dealing with it, i sort of lost track of what was happening in that arena.  However, i don't want to get involved with that again.
>
> I'm sort of thinking about getting a Dell Inspiron but maybe i should buy from a linux vendor instead, such as 76?  Presumably at least in that case at least i wouldn't have to worry about the bios.
>
> I certainly would want to get something which supported 2 or 3 internal disks, but i would also like to get something that could be booted from an external usb drive.  Does that make sense?
>
> Would it make sense to look for something where all usb ports are usb 3.0?  I've never used usb 3.0 at home, so i'm kind of unclued.
>
> In a way, i'd like to have something with 2 ethernet ports on the motherboard, although i've found that usb-to-ethernet is adequate for my purposes.
>
> And i think i'd like to stick with debian, but i would consider any free OS.  (So if i bought a Dell, i would add a disk drive or two, and boot off the debian disk, probably removing the windows disk.)
>
> I'd appreciate any pointers or recommendations.

Over the past 20 or so years, I've had great luck with the bottom-of-the-line tower type Dell servers -- they've been on the 'Net 24/7, and I've never had one fail.  Obsoleted, sure.  And disk failures from time to time (but that's what RAID1 is for).

And Dell will sell the servers with no Windows OS on the disks, so you don't have to DBAN them to get the Microsoft bits out of your computer.  The one in front of me right now is a Supermicro workstation.  The Dells have been Internet servers, and the Supermicro is better for my desk because it's easier to futz with.

All of my current boxes are pretty old, and they all have vanilla BIOSes.  I have a Dell laptop that came with a UEFI BIOS, and it was no fun at all getting it to run Debian -- it may still be misconfigured for all I know.  Looking for a genuine BIOS might be worth the trouble.

All of the above (except the laptop) have multiple internal disks -- 2 in the Dells, 4 in the Supermicro.

USB3 is a good thing.  But if you don't need high USB bandwidth, USB2 still works.  USB3, though, has a significantly higher power output.

The Supermicro has two motherboard Ethernets; the Dells, one.
On all of them, I've loaded up with disks and installed from a Debian netInstall CD. 
A blast from the past, but I hope it's of some use.

--
Glenn English


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#232502 — Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

On 3/7/21 11:00 AM, ghe2001 wrote:
> All of my current boxes are pretty old, and they all have vanilla BIOSes.  I have a Dell laptop that came with a UEFI BIOS, and it was no fun at all getting it to run Debian -- it may still be misconfigured for all I know.  


If you want to start a new thread, perhaps we can help you with the Dell 
UEFI issue(s).


> Looking for a genuine BIOS might be worth the trouble.


UEFI started coming into x86 motherboard firmware ~10 years ago, so a 
BIOS-only machine is going to be at least that old.  That is okay for a 
server, but I would want newer Intel integrated graphics for a desktop. 
This implies UEFI firmware.


David

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#232503

David Christensen wrote:

> UEFI started coming into x86 motherboard firmware ~10 years ago, so a
> BIOS-only machine is going to be at least that old.  That is okay for a
> server, but I would want newer Intel integrated graphics for a desktop.
> This implies UEFI firmware.

what has the graphic card to do with UEFI?

IMO UEFI makes sense when you have notebook with secureboot and probably
dual boot with windows.
For the home server or PC with Linux only ... IMO it is a waste.

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#232504

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 2021-03-07 at 15:59, deloptes wrote:

> David Christensen wrote:
> 
>> UEFI started coming into x86 motherboard firmware ~10 years ago, so
>> a BIOS-only machine is going to be at least that old.  That is okay
>> for a server, but I would want newer Intel integrated graphics for
>> a desktop. This implies UEFI firmware.
> 
> what has the graphic card to do with UEFI?

If you're not using an add-in graphics card, but are relying on
integrated graphics, then the available graphics will depend on what you
can get built in to the motherboard.

If the motherboard is old enough to not have UEFI, then the integrated
graphics on that motherboard will be comparably old.

(And some motherboards - particularly server motherboards - may not even
support add-in graphics cards at all. I wouldn't especially expect that,
at least not since the demise of the AGP slot, but one never does know.)

> IMO UEFI makes sense when you have notebook with secureboot and probably
> dual boot with windows.
> For the home server or PC with Linux only ... IMO it is a waste.

What do you see as being the point / purpose / benefits of UEFI,
especially in those circumstances where you do think it makes sense?

Because I'm trying to understand the perspective behind your statement,
and so far not managing very much.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

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#232505 — Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

On Sun, Mar 07, 2021 at 04:06:07PM -0500, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2021-03-07 at 15:59, deloptes wrote:
> 
> > David Christensen wrote:
> > 
> >> UEFI started coming into x86 motherboard firmware ~10 years ago, so
> >> a BIOS-only machine is going to be at least that old.  That is okay
> >> for a server, but I would want newer Intel integrated graphics for
> >> a desktop. This implies UEFI firmware.
> > 
> > what has the graphic card to do with UEFI?
> 
> If you're not using an add-in graphics card, but are relying on
> integrated graphics, then the available graphics will depend on what you
> can get built in to the motherboard.
> 

If you _are_ using add in graphics, then you'll find that the latest cards
effectively tie into UEFI. You may possibly find that attempting to use
legacy/MBR may cause some problems.

> If the motherboard is old enough to not have UEFI, then the integrated
> graphics on that motherboard will be comparably old.
> 
> (And some motherboards - particularly server motherboards - may not even
> support add-in graphics cards at all. I wouldn't especially expect that,
> at least not since the demise of the AGP slot, but one never does know.)
> 
> > IMO UEFI makes sense when you have notebook with secureboot and probably
> > dual boot with windows.
> > For the home server or PC with Linux only ... IMO it is a waste.
> 
> What do you see as being the point / purpose / benefits of UEFI,
> especially in those circumstances where you do think it makes sense?
> 
Late model motherboard may only support UEFI = legacy support is deprecated.

> Because I'm trying to understand the perspective behind your statement,
> and so far not managing very much.
> 

Just my perspective - all best - Andy C.

> -- 
>    The Wanderer
> 
> The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
> persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
> progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw
> 

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#232506

Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

> If you _are_ using add in graphics, then you'll find that the latest cards
> effectively tie into UEFI. You may possibly find that attempting to use
> legacy/MBR may cause some problems.

It would be good to have more reading on that. I had it on my todo list to
move to UEFI the machines at home.
Well the FW does not have any idea of UEFI :)
I moved the desktop last week, but left the server.
For the notebooks however it is really no fun anymore as the bios requires
special settings to be even able to install/boot debian.
I noticed already that modern server hardware goes UEFI only, so does modern
linux OS, but it would be interesting to know the technical background
behind.

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#232507

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 2021-03-07 at 16:24, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 07, 2021 at 04:06:07PM -0500, The Wanderer wrote:
> 
>> On 2021-03-07 at 15:59, deloptes wrote:

>>> what has the graphic card to do with UEFI?
>> 
>> If you're not using an add-in graphics card, but are relying on 
>> integrated graphics, then the available graphics will depend on
>> what you can get built in to the motherboard.
> 
> If you _are_ using add in graphics, then you'll find that the latest
> cards effectively tie into UEFI. You may possibly find that
> attempting to use legacy/MBR may cause some problems.

I should have thought of that, actually. I'm in a bind at the moment
because of it; I have one of the last generation of pre-UEFI
motherboards, and a brand-new recent-generation GPU that won't POST on
that motherboard, and there's apparently a known issue in which that GPU
chipset (and newer) is not compatible with BIOSes.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

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#232511 — Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

On 3/7/21 12:59 PM, deloptes wrote:
> David Christensen wrote:
> 
>> UEFI started coming into x86 motherboard firmware ~10 years ago, so a
>> BIOS-only machine is going to be at least that old.  That is okay for a
>> server, but I would want newer Intel integrated graphics for a desktop.
>> This implies UEFI firmware.
> 
> what has the graphic card to do with UEFI?

Chronological coincidence -- newer machines have newer Intel integrated 
graphics and UEFI.


> IMO UEFI makes sense when you have notebook with secureboot and probably
> dual boot with windows.
> For the home server or PC with Linux only ... IMO it is a waste.

I can see how GPT labels would be useful for system drives, but I use 
BIOS/MBR because it is the lowest common denominator and I can move 
system drives between machines of varying age.


David

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#232513

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 2021-03-07 at 19:04, David Christensen wrote:

> On 3/7/21 12:59 PM, deloptes wrote:

>> IMO UEFI makes sense when you have notebook with secureboot and probably
>> dual boot with windows.
>> For the home server or PC with Linux only ... IMO it is a waste.
> 
> I can see how GPT labels would be useful for system drives, but I use 
> BIOS/MBR because it is the lowest common denominator and I can move 
> system drives between machines of varying age.

That'll probably stop working past a certain point, at least for some
machines. On recent Intel chipsets, Dell has stopped supporting booting
from internal hard drives except in UEFI/GPT mode (as in, they no longer
offer a setting for it, and their boot-device selection menus won't let
you do it), and I gather that Intel's newer chipsets are going to stop
including support for the UEFI components that permit MBR-based boot in
the relatively-near future (if they haven't in fact done that already).

At which point you'll need to maintain two categories of system drives:
ones which can work on older machines, prior to that dropping of
support, and ones which can work on newer machines, subsequent to the
addition of UEFI/GPT booting.

Isn't progress fun?

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

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