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Thunderbird replacement suggestions?

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  Thunderbird replacement suggestions? Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2020-07-05 00:10 +0200
    Re: Thunderbird replacement suggestions? Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-07-05 00:50 +0200
      Re: Thunderbird replacement suggestions? Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2020-07-05 21:00 +0200
    Re: Thunderbird replacement suggestions? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-07-05 00:50 +0200
    Re: Thunderbird replacement suggestions? ghe2001 <ghe2001@protonmail.com> - 2020-07-05 00:50 +0200
      Re: Thunderbird replacement suggestions? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-07-05 12:00 +0200
        Re: Thunderbird replacement suggestions? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-07-05 14:30 +0200
    Re: Thunderbird replacement suggestions? Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-07-05 00:50 +0200
    Re: Thunderbird replacement suggestions? Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2020-07-05 05:30 +0200
      Re: Thunderbird replacement suggestions? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-07-05 09:00 +0200
        Re: Thunderbird replacement suggestions? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-07-05 14:20 +0200
    Re: Thunderbird replacement suggestions? Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2020-07-08 07:20 +0200

#224365 — Thunderbird replacement suggestions?

Greetings.

While trying to fix a broken Thunderbird/Enigmail installation on my
wife's Windows laptop, I found the cause to be a new feature in
Thunderbird 78, installed recently without notice: that it will not
support Enigmail. The new version also appears to have no obvious way to
import openpgp keys, and it appears the developers do not plan to
support that, at least for secret and signed public keys, nor any
intention to adhere to the "Web of Trust" infrastructure. I still have
TB 68 on the Debian machines, but expect that will go away by Bullseye
release, since Mozilla's support for it apparently will end late this year.

I elected to use Thunderbird a number of years ago because it has a
relatively decent UI, downloads and removes the messages from my ISP's
servers, and with Enigmail had reasonably good PGP integration. I'm sure
there are others, but it's 10 - 20 years since I used them (fetchmail +
mutt, IIRC).

I would welcome suggested alternatives. An additional desired feature,
if known, would be any capability to ingest old messages from Thunderbird.

Thanks,
Tom Dial

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#224366

On 05-07-2020 07:38, Tom Dial wrote:
> Greetings.
> 
> While trying to fix a broken Thunderbird/Enigmail installation on my
> wife's Windows laptop, I found the cause to be a new feature in
> Thunderbird 78, installed recently without notice: that it will not
> support Enigmail. The new version also appears to have no obvious way to
> import openpgp keys, and it appears the developers do not plan to
> support that, at least for secret and signed public keys, nor any
> intention to adhere to the "Web of Trust" infrastructure. I still have
> TB 68 on the Debian machines, but expect that will go away by Bullseye
> release, since Mozilla's support for it apparently will end late this year.

Interesting!
I'm using 68.9.0 (64 bit) Thunderbird on SID and all those features work
just fine, for now.
Enigmail _is_ going, but will be replaced by OpenPGP, and S/MIME has
always been available, and will continue to be.

-- 
`Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false,
and by the rulers as useful'.

— Lucius Annæus Seneca.

Terrorism, the new religion.

Registered Linux User: 554515

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#224407

On 7/4/20 16:43, Weaver wrote:
> On 05-07-2020 07:38, Tom Dial wrote:
>> Greetings.
>>
>> While trying to fix a broken Thunderbird/Enigmail installation on my
>> wife's Windows laptop, I found the cause to be a new feature in
>> Thunderbird 78, installed recently without notice: that it will not
>> support Enigmail. The new version also appears to have no obvious way to
>> import openpgp keys, and it appears the developers do not plan to
>> support that, at least for secret and signed public keys, nor any
>> intention to adhere to the "Web of Trust" infrastructure. I still have
>> TB 68 on the Debian machines, but expect that will go away by Bullseye
>> release, since Mozilla's support for it apparently will end late this year.
> 
> Interesting!
> I'm using 68.9.0 (64 bit) Thunderbird on SID and all those features work
> just fine, for now.
> Enigmail _is_ going, but will be replaced by OpenPGP, and S/MIME has
> always been available, and will continue to be.

I also am presently using 68.9.0 (on Buster) without issues. Windows 10
with current patches, a harbinger of things to come, is a rather
different matter; it now has Thunderbird 78, which fails with Enigmail.

>From what I could find - almost none of it younger than nine months,
Thunderbird is supposed to honor the OpenPGP protocol, (re)implemented
internally, with its own repository. It appears it will not provide for
import of public keys and that there are no plans to add that, and no
more than a hint of possible consideration of using public key servers.
It offers, in its current version, to accept instead a "certificate,"
presumably X.509, which I do not have or wish to obtain.

This seems to me a good deal short of replacing anything but the
cryptographic core and that, maybe, newly developed. It may happen that
the developers will remedy these defects, but that is at best a future goal.

Regards,
Tom Dial

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#224367

Tom Dial wrote: 
> I elected to use Thunderbird a number of years ago because it has a
> relatively decent UI, downloads and removes the messages from my ISP's
> servers, and with Enigmail had reasonably good PGP integration. I'm sure
> there are others, but it's 10 - 20 years since I used them (fetchmail +
> mutt, IIRC).

Oh no, that's antique.

You should use getmail and mutt.

> I would welcome suggested alternatives. An additional desired feature,
> if known, would be any capability to ingest old messages from Thunderbird.

Thunderbird's usual mail storage is mbox, which mutt can read
directly. TB also has experimental fake-Maildir support, which
can be converted to real Maildir with a six-ish line script.

-dsr-

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#224368

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256



‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Saturday, July 4, 2020 3:38 PM, Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> wrote:

> I would welcome suggested alternatives. An additional desired feature,
> if known, would be any capability to ingest old messages from Thunderbird.

Are you looking for free and PGP? Look at Protonmail. (.com)

I use it in HTML with a browser, but there's a 'bridge' that I know next to nothing about except that it's claimed to connect to real email clients.

But I heard on some TB site that they're planning to incorporate PGP into TB.

--
Glenn English

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#224389

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, Jul 04, 2020 at 10:44:09PM +0000, ghe2001 wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> 
> 
> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> On Saturday, July 4, 2020 3:38 PM, Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> > I would welcome suggested alternatives. An additional desired feature,
> > if known, would be any capability to ingest old messages from Thunderbird.
> 
> Are you looking for free and PGP? Look at Protonmail. (.com)

Protonmail is a commercial service. The clients seem to be under
a free license, though.

Whether it's a good idea to have the web browser playing the user's
encryption bastion shall be left as an exercise to the reader.

Cheers
-- t

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#224393

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 11:54:41 +0200
<tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:

> On Sat, Jul 04, 2020 at 10:44:09PM +0000, ghe2001 wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA256
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> > On Saturday, July 4, 2020 3:38 PM, Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > I would welcome suggested alternatives. An additional desired feature,
> > > if known, would be any capability to ingest old messages from Thunderbird.
> > 
> > Are you looking for free and PGP? Look at Protonmail. (.com)
> 
> Protonmail is a commercial service. The clients seem to be under
> a free license, though.
> 
> Whether it's a good idea to have the web browser playing the user's
> encryption bastion shall be left as an exercise to the reader.

As another post in this thread mentioned, they also provide a bridge,
i.e., an application that provides an interface between normal MUAs and
their service, and that bridge is now apparently open source:

https://protonmail.com/blog/bridge-open-source/

I have not used it, and I have no idea what the experience is like.

Celejar

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#224369

On 05-07-2020 07:38, Tom Dial wrote:
> Greetings.
> 
> While trying to fix a broken Thunderbird/Enigmail installation on my
> wife's Windows laptop, I found the cause to be a new feature in
> Thunderbird 78, installed recently without notice: that it will not
> support Enigmail. The new version also appears to have no obvious way to
> import openpgp keys, and it appears the developers do not plan to
> support that, at least for secret and signed public keys, nor any
> intention to adhere to the "Web of Trust" infrastructure. I still have
> TB 68 on the Debian machines, but expect that will go away by Bullseye
> release, since Mozilla's support for it apparently will end late this year.

Sorry, should have included this:

https://blog.thunderbird.net/2019/10/thunderbird-enigmail-and-openpgp/

-- 
`Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false,
and by the rulers as useful'.

— Lucius Annæus Seneca.

Terrorism, the new religion.

Registered Linux User: 554515

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#224371

On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 15:38:38 -0600
Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> wrote:

> While trying to fix a broken Thunderbird/Enigmail installation on my
> wife's Windows laptop,...

Are you asking for advice for Windows or for Debian?

> I would welcome suggested alternatives. An additional desired feature,
> if known, would be any capability to ingest old messages from
> Thunderbird.

Claws-mail will do what you want, and then some. You may have to
configure the GPG connection, but such is life with Unix. It is
available for Windows, but that version usually lags the Linux version.



-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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#224381

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sb, 04 iul 20, 21:24:27, Charles Curley wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 15:38:38 -0600
> Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> > While trying to fix a broken Thunderbird/Enigmail installation on my
> > wife's Windows laptop,...
> 
> Are you asking for advice for Windows or for Debian?
> 
> > I would welcome suggested alternatives. An additional desired feature,
> > if known, would be any capability to ingest old messages from
> > Thunderbird.
> 
> Claws-mail will do what you want, and then some. You may have to
> configure the GPG connection, but such is life with Unix. It is
> available for Windows, but that version usually lags the Linux version.

+1 for Claws-Mail.

It does lack support for composing HTML mails (on purpose), in case this 
is needed.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#224392

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 09:58:04 +0300
Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sb, 04 iul 20, 21:24:27, Charles Curley wrote:
> > On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 15:38:38 -0600
> > Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > While trying to fix a broken Thunderbird/Enigmail installation on my
> > > wife's Windows laptop,...
> > 
> > Are you asking for advice for Windows or for Debian?
> > 
> > > I would welcome suggested alternatives. An additional desired feature,
> > > if known, would be any capability to ingest old messages from
> > > Thunderbird.
> > 
> > Claws-mail will do what you want, and then some. You may have to
> > configure the GPG connection, but such is life with Unix. It is
> > available for Windows, but that version usually lags the Linux version.
> 
> +1 for Claws-Mail.
> 
> It does lack support for composing HTML mails (on purpose), in case this 
> is needed.

And don't forget about Sylpheed (from which Claws was forked a long
time ago) - it's still going strong, has mature GPG support, and has
full mbox support (which another post in this thread mentioned is
Thunderbird's standard mail store). It also can't compose HTML mail,
though (also on purpose).-

Celejar

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#224569

On 7/4/20 15:38, Tom Dial wrote:
> Greetings.
> 
> While trying to fix a broken Thunderbird/Enigmail installation on my
> wife's Windows laptop, I found the cause to be a new feature in
> Thunderbird 78, installed recently without notice: that it will not
> support Enigmail. The new version also appears to have no obvious way to
> import openpgp keys, and it appears the developers do not plan to
> support that, at least for secret and signed public keys, nor any
> intention to adhere to the "Web of Trust" infrastructure. I still have
> TB 68 on the Debian machines, but expect that will go away by Bullseye
> release, since Mozilla's support for it apparently will end late this year.
> 
> I elected to use Thunderbird a number of years ago because it has a
> relatively decent UI, downloads and removes the messages from my ISP's
> servers, and with Enigmail had reasonably good PGP integration. I'm sure
> there are others, but it's 10 - 20 years since I used them (fetchmail +
> mutt, IIRC).
> 
> I would welcome suggested alternatives. An additional desired feature,
> if known, would be any capability to ingest old messages from Thunderbird.
> 

Thanks to all for the suggestions:

    getmail + mutt: (Dan Ritter)
    claws-mail: (Andrei Popescu)
    sylpheed : (celejar)
    protonmail: (ghe2001)(celejar)
    protonmail + open-source-bridge: (celejar)

I'll be installing and testing them in some order during the coming months.

Regards,
Tom Dial

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