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one thing i don't like about Thunar file manager

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  one thing i don't like about Thunar file manager kaye n <guikaye@gmail.com> - 2020-10-13 04:00 +0200
    Re: one thing i don't like about Thunar file manager Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-10-13 04:20 +0200
      Re: one thing i don't like about Thunar file manager kaye n <guikaye@gmail.com> - 2020-10-14 06:30 +0200
        Re: one thing i don't like about Thunar file manager Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-10-14 08:10 +0200
          Re: one thing i don't like about Thunar file manager Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-10-14 10:30 +0200
            Re: one thing i don't like about Thunar file manager kaye n <guikaye@gmail.com> - 2020-10-14 13:20 +0200
            Re: one thing i don't like about Thunar file manager Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-10-14 18:30 +0200
          Please be respectful (was: one thing i don't like about Thunar file  manager) "Christoph K." <christoph@kobenetz.de> - 2020-10-14 10:40 +0200
            Re: Please be respectful Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-10-14 11:20 +0200
              Re: Please be respectful Thomas Pircher <thp+debian@p5r.uk> - 2020-10-14 12:30 +0200
              Re: Please be respectful "Christoph K." <christoph@kobenetz.de> - 2020-10-14 17:40 +0200
              Re: Please be respectful Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2020-10-15 15:50 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful grumpy@mailfence.com - 2020-10-15 16:10 +0200
                  Re: Please be respectful Felmon Davis <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2020-10-15 16:30 +0200
                    Re: Please be respectful <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-10-24 10:20 +0200
                      Re: Please be respectful Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-10-24 18:50 +0200
                      Re: Please be respectful Doug McGarrett <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2020-10-24 19:30 +0200
                  Re: Please be respectful Peter Ehlert <peter@sdi-baja.com> - 2020-10-15 17:40 +0200
              Re: Please be respectful Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2020-10-16 00:20 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-10-16 02:20 +0200
                  Re: Please be respectful Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2020-10-16 12:00 +0200
                    Re: Please be respectful Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-10-16 23:50 +0200
                      Re: Please be respectful Michael uplawski <linux-gate@don.blech.e4ward.com> - 2020-10-17 07:30 +0200
                        Re: Please be respectful Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-10-17 07:40 +0200
                          Re: Please be respectful Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-10-17 23:10 +0200
                            Re: Please be respectful Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2020-10-18 03:50 +0200
                              Re: Please be respectful Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-10-18 04:10 +0200
                                Re: Please be respectful Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2020-10-18 14:30 +0200
                                Re: Please be respectful Jan Foniok <jan.foniok@pikomat.mff.cuni.cz> - 2020-10-25 10:50 +0100
                                  Re: Please be respectful Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2020-10-25 21:10 +0100
                              Re: Please be respectful Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-10-18 04:10 +0200
                                Re: Please be respectful Michael uplawski <linux-gate@don.blech.e4ward.com> - 2020-10-18 12:50 +0200
                                Re: Please be respectful Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2020-10-18 14:40 +0200
                                  Re: Please be respectful Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2020-10-24 18:50 +0200
                                    Re: Please be respectful Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2020-10-24 19:40 +0200
                                      Re: Please be respectful john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2020-10-24 19:50 +0200
                                      Re: Please be respectful "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2020-10-24 22:20 +0200
                      Re: Please be respectful Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-10-17 09:00 +0200
                        Re: Please be respectful Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-10-17 10:40 +0200
                        Re: Please be respectful Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-10-26 14:00 +0100
                          Re: Please be respectful Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-10-26 15:00 +0100
                            Re: Please be respectful ellanios82 <ellanios82@gmail.com> - 2020-10-26 15:50 +0100
                      Re: Please be respectful <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-10-17 10:20 +0200
                      Re: Please be respectful "Christoph K." <christoph@kobenetz.de> - 2020-10-18 13:50 +0200
                        Re: Please be respectful Long Wind <longwind2@yahoo.com> - 2020-10-18 14:00 +0200
                          Re: Please be respectful <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-10-18 14:20 +0200
                            Re: Please be respectful Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-10-18 16:50 +0200
                            Re: Please be respectful Long Wind <longwind2@yahoo.com> - 2020-10-19 14:00 +0200
                              Re: Please be respectful <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-10-19 14:20 +0200
                            Re: Please be respectful <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-10-24 16:10 +0200
        Re: one thing i don't like about Thunar file manager riveravaldez <riveravaldezmail@gmail.com> - 2020-10-14 08:40 +0200

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#227755 — one thing i don't like about Thunar file manager

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Hi guys, I don't know if there's any way to set it, but I would like to be
able to do the following in Thunar file manager:

Let's say there are three files with the names -
apple-pie
banana-split
orange-juice

On the file manager window, I would type the letter o and the file
'orange-juice' would be selected.  However, I would also want the ability
to select that file by typing j (for juice).

This is possible with another file manager, but not with Thunar as far as I
can tell.
Am I wrong?  What other file managers would you recommend for my Debian
system that has that feature?

Thank you for your time.
Kaye

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#227756

On 13-10-2020 11:57, kaye n wrote:
> Hi guys, I don't know if there's any way to set it, but I would like
> to be able to do the following in Thunar file manager:
> 
> Let's say there are three files with the names - 
> apple-pie 
> banana-split 
> orange-juice
> 
> On the file manager window, I would type the letter o and the file
> 'orange-juice' would be selected.  However, I would also want the
> ability to select that file by typing j (for juice). 
> 
> This is possible with another file manager, but not with Thunar as far
> as I can tell.
> Am I wrong?  What other file managers would you recommend for my
> Debian system that has that feature?

I'd never need that feature for myself, as I learnt to read years ago,
but don't you think it would be more constructive to file as a bug with
the Thunar people?
Kind regards,

Harry
-- 
`Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false,
and by the rulers as useful'.

— Lucius Annæus Seneca.

Terrorism, the new religion.

Registered Linux User: 554515

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#227782

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>
> > Let's say there are three files with the names -
> > apple-pie
> > banana-split
> > orange-juice
> >
> > On the file manager window, I would type the letter o and the file
> > 'orange-juice' would be selected.  However, I would also want the
> > ability to select that file by typing j (for juice).
> >
> > This is possible with another file manager, but not with Thunar as far
> > as I can tell.
> > Am I wrong?  What other file managers would you recommend for my
> > Debian system that has that feature?
>
> I'd never need that feature for myself, as I learnt to read years ago,
>

I realize my question may be an eye-roller for some people, but

"as I learnt to read years ago,"

is the type of answer that makes non-Linux users think that we're a bunch
of elitist snob.

Thanks anyway

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#227783

On 14-10-2020 14:21, kaye n wrote:
>>> Let's say there are three files with the names -
>>> apple-pie
>>> banana-split
>>> orange-juice
>>>
>>> On the file manager window, I would type the letter o and the file
>>> 'orange-juice' would be selected.  However, I would also want the
>>> ability to select that file by typing j (for juice).
>>>
>>> This is possible with another file manager, but not with Thunar as
>> far
>>> as I can tell.
>>> Am I wrong?  What other file managers would you recommend for my
>>> Debian system that has that feature?
>>
>> I'd never need that feature for myself, as I learnt to read years
>> ago,
> 
> I realize my question may be an eye-roller for some people, but 
> 
> "as I learnt to read years ago,"
> 
> is the type of answer that makes non-Linux users think that we're a
> bunch of elitist snob.

No, it doesn't.
It's appropriate sarcasm.
A quick scroll and a basic knowledge of the alphabet is all that's
required to locate any file/directory in even a complex listing.
And no new user is involved, that statement is right in the post. so the
straw-man doesn't apply.
For those who require spoon feeding:

https://docs.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/bugs

> Thanks anyway

No problem!

-- 
`Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false,
and by the rulers as useful'.

— Lucius Annæus Seneca.

Terrorism, the new religion.

Registered Linux User: 554515

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#227786

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On Ma, 13 oct 20, 23:06:55, Weaver wrote:
> On 14-10-2020 14:21, kaye n wrote:
> > 
> > I realize my question may be an eye-roller for some people, but 
> > 
> > "as I learnt to read years ago,"
> > 
> > is the type of answer that makes non-Linux users think that we're a
> > bunch of elitist snob.
> 
> No, it doesn't.
> It's appropriate sarcasm.
> A quick scroll and a basic knowledge of the alphabet is all that's
> required to locate any file/directory in even a complex listing.

That feature appears useful in case of a directory with lots of files 
where the first part of the filename is unknown (i.e. one can't guess 
even the general area in the listing where the file might be).

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#227794

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>
>
> > > I realize my question may be an eye-roller for some people, but
> > >
> > > "as I learnt to read years ago,"
> > >
> > > is the type of answer that makes non-Linux users think that we're a
> > > bunch of elitist snob.
> >
> > No, it doesn't.
> > It's appropriate sarcasm.
> > A quick scroll and a basic knowledge of the alphabet is all that's
> > required to locate any file/directory in even a complex listing.
>
> That feature appears useful in case of a directory with lots of files
> where the first part of the filename is unknown (i.e. one can't guess
> even the general area in the listing where the file might be).
>

That's exactly my point. Thank you Andrei. You've been helpful since I
started using Debian.

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#227804

> That feature appears useful in case of a directory with lots of files
> where the first part of the filename is unknown (i.e. one can't guess
> even the general area in the listing where the file might be).

It's also useful when all the files (or at least many of them)
start with the same prefix and you'd rather not have to repeat that
prefix.

Oh, and also when the prefix includes characters which you don't really
know how to type.

And I'm sure there are several other very legitimate use case.


        Stefan


PS: Being able to "read" is important, but being able to imagine someone
else's use cases (which I guess is what we call "empathy") is quite
handy too.

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#227787 — Please be respectful (was: one thing i don't like about Thunar file manager)

On Tue, 13 Oct 2020 23:06:55 -0700
Weaver wrote <weaver@riseup.net>:

> > "as I learnt to read years ago,"
> It's appropriate sarcasm.

Disagreed.
It's simply disrespectful.


> For those who require spoon feeding:

As is this comment, too.


Sarcasm can be fun sometimes, but I believe it's no appropriate way to
communicate on debian mailing lists. It can lead to misunderstandings and
people being hurt, apart from making a bad impressions on others reading
this list.

Please re-read the Debian Code of Conduct and consider being more polite:
https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct

Best regards,
Christoph

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#227789 — Re: Please be respectful

On 14-10-2020 18:30, Christoph K. wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Oct 2020 23:06:55 -0700
> Weaver wrote <weaver@riseup.net>:
> 
>> > "as I learnt to read years ago,"
>> It's appropriate sarcasm.
> 
> Disagreed.
> It's simply disrespectful.
> 
> 
>> For those who require spoon feeding:
> 
> As is this comment, too.
> 
> 
> Sarcasm can be fun sometimes, but I believe it's no appropriate way to
> communicate on debian mailing lists. It can lead to misunderstandings and
> people being hurt, apart from making a bad impressions on others reading
> this list.
> 
> Please re-read the Debian Code of Conduct and consider being more polite:
> https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct

Being polite is a standard that has to apply to all.
I consider the original post not to be.
To me I see an outstanding example of laziness from somebody who
obviously needs no consideration in the accessibility department.
Scrolling an alphabetically arranged file system doesn't even qualify as
trivial.
It can be accomplished as quickly as you can move your hand.
The use of find and/or locate will dig up anything, no matter how deeply
hidden in a plethora of directories.
If that is insufficient and the standard has to be established in an
instance where an iron lung is in use, direct a bug report to the
appropriate quarter, which I have already supplied, where they can put
it at the far end of a list behind things that really need doing.
Kind regards,

Harry. 

-- 
`Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false,
and by the rulers as useful'.

— Lucius Annæus Seneca.

Terrorism, the new religion.

Registered Linux User: 554515

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#227792 — Re: Please be respectful

Weaver wrote:
> To me I see an outstanding example of laziness from somebody who
> obviously needs no consideration in the accessibility department.

Hi Harry,

I really hope you are in a minority with this opinion, and hopefully,
re-reading the original post you might come to a different conclusion
about the OP's request.

> Scrolling an alphabetically arranged file system doesn't even qualify as
> trivial.

The OP asked for a suggestion of a file browser with a certain feature.
The feature is to filter/limit the displayed files, roughly equivalent
to a shell command like `ls *j*`. I do this type of things all the time.
This is a perfectly reasonable thing to do, especially when dealing with
lots of files, and when you don't know the full name of a file.

> The use of find and/or locate will dig up anything, no matter how deeply
> hidden in a plethora of directories.

That is true, find and locate are very powerful tools, and worth
learning. However, they are specialized tools which need some form of
in-depth knowledge, and as such, they not always the first choice in
every situation for every user.

Cheers,
Thomas

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#227803 — Re: Please be respectful

Hello Harry,

thanks for your answer.

On Wed, 14 Oct 2020 02:12:45 -0700
Weaver wrote <weaver@riseup.net>:

> Being polite is a standard that has to apply to all.

Agreed.


> I consider the original post not to be.

I do believe it could have been "more considerate",
but it didn't "cross my line", which your post did.
That's why I took the time to write the "please be respectful" email.

My main point of criticism is that independently of the original post,
it's a bad idea to escalate the situation by being sarcastic.
I prefer to directly confront the poster with the problem (as I'm doing
in this case) and ask for a different communication style.


> To me I see an outstanding example of laziness ...

I guess that's where the main clash is.

Sometimes I find myself thinking the same way about what other people do.

But after some experiences of being nasty with other people, ruining
relationships for almost nothing, I've come to the conclusion that "Assume
good faith" as mentioned in the Debian Code of Conduct is a much better
strategy to deal with issues of that kind.

In many cases I've often found that my initial judgement (he's lazy,
nobody needs that feature, etc.) was wrong and it was a good idea not to
express my opinion.
In other cases I find myself to be right. Usually there's no need to
point to that. People expose their faults (lazyness, etc.) themselves -
sooner or later.
Sometimes I support them doing so with polite questions ;-)

Best regards,
Christoph

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#227817 — Re: Please be respectful

Weaver,

On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 02:12:45AM -0700, Weaver wrote:
>Being polite is a standard that has to apply to all.

And indeed it does. Even if the OP was not being polite, you are not 
suddenly given a free pass to write a rude reply. I was really 
disappointed to see your reply because, as Kaye points out, that kind of 
attitude reflects poorly on all of us. Please, if you haven't something 
constructive to offer, just don't post at all.

>I consider the original post not to be.

Hopefully it's now clear to you that you are mistaken since the OP's 
requirement is shared by several others.

Kaye,

I use Nemo and at least out-of-the-box, it does not do what you want.  
From what I recall GNOME's Nautilus file manager might do. However, at 
least by default, Nautilus performs a recursive search for all paths 
that match under the current directory when you start typing to search.  
For me, this is a blocker to using Nautilus (I could not risk, say, 
confidential HR documents flashing up when a colleague was in front of 
my screen. Although that's not going to happen any time soon)

The feature you want is sometimes described as "fuzzy searching". The 
command-line tool "fzf" does it, although it's a grep-like tool, not a 
file manager. There are plugins for Vim to do the same thing too 
(likewise, not a file manager). But perhaps looking for fuzzy searching 
as a feature will help.


Best wishes

-- 

Please don't CC me, I am subscribed to the list.

Jonathan Dowland
https://jmtd.net

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#227818 — Re: Please be respectful

Reading this thread reinforces just how old I am
The whole world seems to be wearing their feelings on the sleeve


On Thu, 15 Oct 2020, Jonathan Dowland wrote:

> Weaver,
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 02:12:45AM -0700, Weaver wrote:
>> Being polite is a standard that has to apply to all.
>
> And indeed it does. Even if the OP was not being polite, you are not suddenly 
> given a free pass to write a rude reply. I was really disappointed to see 
> your reply because, as Kaye points out, that kind of attitude reflects poorly 
> on all of us. Please, if you haven't something constructive to offer, just 
> don't post at all.
>
>> I consider the original post not to be.
>
> Hopefully it's now clear to you that you are mistaken since the OP's 
> requirement is shared by several others.
>
> Kaye,
>
> I use Nemo and at least out-of-the-box, it does not do what you want. 
>> From what I recall GNOME's Nautilus file manager might do. However, at 
> least by default, Nautilus performs a recursive search for all paths that 
> match under the current directory when you start typing to search.  For me, 
> this is a blocker to using Nautilus (I could not risk, say, confidential HR 
> documents flashing up when a colleague was in front of my screen. Although 
> that's not going to happen any time soon)
>
> The feature you want is sometimes described as "fuzzy searching". The 
> command-line tool "fzf" does it, although it's a grep-like tool, not a file 
> manager. There are plugins for Vim to do the same thing too (likewise, not a 
> file manager). But perhaps looking for fuzzy searching as a feature will 
> help.
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> -- 
>
> Please don't CC me, I am subscribed to the list.
>
> Jonathan Dowland
> https://jmtd.net
>

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#227820 — Re: Please be respectful

On Thu, 15 Oct 2020, grumpy@mailfence.com wrote:

> Reading this thread reinforces just how old I am
> The whole world seems to be wearing their feelings on the sleeve

I doubt it's age-related; many feel under threat for various reasons 
though maybe we don't always pick apt targets or choose apt remedies.

-- 
Felmon Davis

Verbum sat sapienti.

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#228154 — Re: Please be respectful

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On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 02:52:41AM -0500, Leslie Rhorer wrote:

[...]

> 	A couple of decades ago I had to have spinal surgery [...]
> What he thought of me as a person was completely irrelevant.

Nice example. If you now try to abstract from it, that means
exactly that: whatever criteria each one choses to be important
is none of your (or my) business.

Our duty is to find ways of getting along together while trying
to respect this. Perhaps to someone else her physician's bedside
manners are more important that her own life? It's on us to
respect that.

Cheers
 - t

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#228159 — Re: Please be respectful

Leslie Rhorer wrote: a bunch of words that indicate that they
aren't interested in politeness as a tool for lubricating social
interactions, even when a minimal attempt at such is the
recognized currency of the community.

One of the great things about the Internet is that, in any
competent interaction system, one can filter out jerks.

Plonk.

-dsr-

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#228162 — Re: Please be respectful

These messages are very unrespectful. I don't need a screen full of this 
BS! Stop it!
On 10/24/20 12:23 PM, Leslie Rhorer wrote:
>
>
> On 10/24/2020 3:11 AM, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 02:52:41AM -0500, Leslie Rhorer wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>>     A couple of decades ago I had to have spinal surgery [...]
>>> What he thought of me as a person was completely irrelevant.
>>
>> Nice example. If you now try to abstract from it, that means
>> exactly that: whatever criteria each one choses to be important
>> is none of your (or my) business.
>
>     That is exceedingly poor abstraction.  What it means is I would 
> have to be a complete idiot to allow my personal feelings to interfere 
> in any way with my ability to continue living and breathing.  It also 
> means his manner, no matter how offensive, is in no way relevant to 
> his skill.
>
>     Of course, there is also absolutely no way he or anyone else is 
> going to hurt my feelings by being brutally truthful.  The only thing 
> that mattered is he felt he could fix me.
>
>> Our duty
>
>     Duty?  Are you serious?  I certainly never took an oath to 
> Debian.  Did you?  My duty is what I choose it to be, and nothing else.
>
>> is to find ways of getting along together
>
>     Who says?  It is definitely not my top priority.
>
>> while trying to respect this.
>
>     While trying to respect what?  I never, ever *TRY* to respect 
> anyone or anything.  I either do or I do not.  Neither is at all 
> difficult.
>
>> Perhaps to someone else her physician's bedside
>> manners are more important that her own life?
>
>     Are you suggesting women are idiots?  If not, then why do you say, 
> "Her"?
>
>     In the great scheme of things, I am perfectly well aware my life 
> is not particularly important.  Not very long from now I will cease to 
> live, and in less than a century - probably not much more than a 
> decade - no one will have any idea who I was or even that I ever 
> lived.  Boo Hoo. That my life is far, far less important than many 
> millions of other things does not, however, mean my life is not worth 
> much more than many things.  My personal feelings are way, way down 
> that list.
>
>> It's on us to respect that.
>
>     No, it isn't.  Not even a tiny bit.  I respect anyone's right - 
> male or female - to be as stupid as they want to be.  That does not 
> mean I respect them, nor can anyone anywhere compel me to do so.  I 
> also will not choose to mourn anyone killed by their own foolishness.
>

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#227822 — Re: Please be respectful

ditto

On 10/15/20 6:58 AM, grumpy@mailfence.com wrote:
> Reading this thread reinforces just how old I am
> The whole world seems to be wearing their feelings on the sleeve
>
>
> On Thu, 15 Oct 2020, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
>
>> Weaver,
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 02:12:45AM -0700, Weaver wrote:
>>> Being polite is a standard that has to apply to all.
>>
>> And indeed it does. Even if the OP was not being polite, you are not 
>> suddenly given a free pass to write a rude reply. I was really 
>> disappointed to see your reply because, as Kaye points out, that kind 
>> of attitude reflects poorly on all of us. Please, if you haven't 
>> something constructive to offer, just don't post at all.
>>
>>> I consider the original post not to be.
>>
>> Hopefully it's now clear to you that you are mistaken since the OP's 
>> requirement is shared by several others.
>>
>> Kaye,
>>
>> I use Nemo and at least out-of-the-box, it does not do what you want.
>>> From what I recall GNOME's Nautilus file manager might do. However, at 
>> least by default, Nautilus performs a recursive search for all paths 
>> that match under the current directory when you start typing to 
>> search.  For me, this is a blocker to using Nautilus (I could not 
>> risk, say, confidential HR documents flashing up when a colleague was 
>> in front of my screen. Although that's not going to happen any time 
>> soon)
>>
>> The feature you want is sometimes described as "fuzzy searching". The 
>> command-line tool "fzf" does it, although it's a grep-like tool, not 
>> a file manager. There are plugins for Vim to do the same thing too 
>> (likewise, not a file manager). But perhaps looking for fuzzy 
>> searching as a feature will help.
>>
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Please don't CC me, I am subscribed to the list.
>>
>> Jonathan Dowland
>> https://jmtd.net
>>
>
>

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#227836 — Re: Please be respectful

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Le mercredi 14 octobre 2020 à 02:12:45-0700, Weaver a écrit :
> On 14-10-2020 18:30, Christoph K. wrote:
> > On Tue, 13 Oct 2020 23:06:55 -0700
> > Weaver wrote <weaver@riseup.net>:
> >
> >> > "as I learnt to read years ago,"
> >> It's appropriate sarcasm.
> >
> > Disagreed.
> > It's simply disrespectful.
> >
> >
> >> For those who require spoon feeding:
> >
> > As is this comment, too.
> >
> >
> > Sarcasm can be fun sometimes, but I believe it's no appropriate way to
> > communicate on debian mailing lists. It can lead to misunderstandings and
> > people being hurt, apart from making a bad impressions on others reading
> > this list.
> >
> > Please re-read the Debian Code of Conduct and consider being more polite:
> > https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct
>
> Being polite is a standard that has to apply to all.
> I consider the original post not to be.
> To me I see an outstanding example of laziness from somebody who
> obviously needs no consideration in the accessibility department.
> Scrolling an alphabetically arranged file system doesn't even qualify as
> trivial.

When the displayed file list contains hundreds or thousands of
files/directories, and you don't know the first letters of their name,
looking for a substring or a fuzzy pattern by hand with your eyes and
via scrolling qualifies as not-at-all trivial.

> It can be accomplished as quickly as you can move your hand.
> The use of find and/or locate will dig up anything, no matter how deeply
> hidden in a plethora of directories.

The question is about a GUI file manager with a specific feature, not
about a command line way of doing it.

> [snip]

The debian-user list is a communication medium where each and any user
of Debian, from "newbie" to "expert" to ask questions and share their
knowledge about the project and its features.

While many users are comfortable with "posting bugs" and "filing
issues", some are not, and are more used to ask for help. It's not
laziness, it's a state of mind. And you probably have relatives who do
the same.

If you have troubles with such users, you can just ignore their mails
and answer to the things that you feel are interesting for you. This
would spare you some time, and a part of the Community wouldn't feel
driven out by another one.

Being eager to live in a world where everyone is not the same, and where
people feel like using the Distribution I contribute to, I'd rather you
not chosing for me which user has a right to ask questions here.

Kind regards.

-- 
Pierre-Elliott Bécue
GPG: 9AE0 4D98 6400 E3B6 7528  F493 0D44 2664 1949 74E2
It's far easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.

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#227837 — Re: Please be respectful

On 10/15/2020 5:05 PM, Pierre-Elliott B�cue wrote:
> Le mercredi 14 octobre 2020 � 02:12:45-0700, Weaver a �crit�:
>> On 14-10-2020 18:30, Christoph K. wrote:
>>> On Tue, 13 Oct 2020 23:06:55 -0700
>>> Weaver wrote <weaver@riseup.net>:
>>>
>>>>> "as I learnt to read years ago,"
>>>> It's appropriate sarcasm.
>>>
>>> Disagreed.
>>> It's simply disrespectful.
>>>
>>>
>>>> For those who require spoon feeding:
>>>
>>> As is this comment, too.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sarcasm can be fun sometimes, but I believe it's no appropriate way to
>>> communicate on debian mailing lists. It can lead to misunderstandings and
>>> people being hurt, apart from making a bad impressions on others reading
>>> this list.
>>>
>>> Please re-read the Debian Code of Conduct and consider being more polite:
>>> https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct
>>
>> Being polite is a standard that has to apply to all.
>> I consider the original post not to be.
>> To me I see an outstanding example of laziness from somebody who
>> obviously needs no consideration in the accessibility department.
>> Scrolling an alphabetically arranged file system doesn't even qualify as
>> trivial.
> 
> When the displayed file list contains hundreds or thousands of
> files/directories, and you don't know the first letters of their name,
> looking for a substring or a fuzzy pattern by hand with your eyes and
> via scrolling qualifies as not-at-all trivial.

	True enough, but then the same is true of a list of badly associated 
names, if not moreso.

>> It can be accomplished as quickly as you can move your hand.
>> The use of find and/or locate will dig up anything, no matter how deeply
>> hidden in a plethora of directories.
> 
> The question is about a GUI file manager with a specific feature, not
> about a command line way of doing it.

	The point - or my point anyway - is rather than seeking to tack on a 
whole bunch of poorly considered features to a poorly considered 
fundamental utility, well considered, powerful, highly configurable 
solutions such as "find" should be encouraged.


> The debian-user list is a communication medium where each and any user
> of Debian, from "newbie" to "expert" to ask questions and share their
> knowledge about the project and its features.

	Why talk about Debian, irrespective of what list this is, when a more 
powerful, simpler, more fundamental utility is available on *ALL* distros?

> While many users are comfortable with "posting bugs" and "filing
> issues", some are not, and are more used to ask for help. It's not

	Your point escapes me.

> laziness, it's a state of mind. And you probably have relatives who do
> the same.

	Again, your point somewhat escapes me.  Laziness is a state of mind, so 
your statement is simply nonsense.  It is also in many cases 
fundamentally untrue that the outlook is not a result of laziness. 
Often it most certainly is.  Sometimes it is not a result of laziness. 
Regardless, it is a limited and weak outlook.

> If you have troubles with such users

	I have trouble with such attitudes, particularly when it winds up badly 
impacting by ability to get things done.  Every year I see Debian being 
degraded by a desire to cater to attitudes which should not be 
countenanced, let alone accommodated.

, you can just ignore their mails
> and answer to the things that you feel are interesting for you. This
> would spare you some time, and a part of the Community wouldn't feel
> driven out by another one.

	I am in no way concerned by who may or may not be driven out, and 
neither do these people for who you and others seem to have so much 
consideration.  They want what they want, regardless of how foolish it 
might be or how it impacts those who want to have maximal control over 
their systems.

> Being eager to live in a world where everyone is not the same, and where
> people feel like using the Distribution I contribute to, I'd rather you
> not chosing for me which user has a right to ask questions here.

	Everyone should have a right to ask questions and to express their 
opinions.  That includes Weaver, and if someone gets their feeling hurt 
over it, that is just tough.  Do I think he too the best tack for 
expressing himself?  No I do not.  That in and of itself in no way 
either validates nor invalidates his point of view, which despite his 
rather poor means of expression nonetheless has a valid core.

	Catering to noobs in any other than a very perfunctory fashion is quite 
simply a very, very bad idea.  Catering to them at the expense of more 
experienced uses is simply and completely unacceptable.  So, frankly, is 
catering to the unintelligent at the expense of the more intelligent.

	I am not saying the "elite" are any more important than the "unwashed" 
as it were, but they are no less important, either, and certainly not 
merely due to their relative paucity of numbers.

	My main point, however, is it is not impossible, or indeed even 
difficult to cater to both needs.  All it requires is some thought and 
preparation.  I will give an example.  Suppose a developer is creating a 
utility called Frumplesticks.  Now, he can create this as a very 
powerful CLI application with a lot of subtle variations or else with a 
text-based configuration file, or he can create a GUI, right?

	WRONG!!!  Create the fundamental utility with either CLI or text 
configuration (or both), and then create some sort of UI front end that 
cvers many of the most common features.  Then anyone who feels 
uncomfortable using a CLI or text file can use FstxUI until they get 
more of a feel for the app, while the rest of us play with fxtxc and / 
or frumplesticks.conf.  Along the way, anyone who started out with 
FstxUI can get more comfortable with the text based solutions.

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