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Towards a custom personalized Debian installer

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  Towards a custom personalized Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-09-16 13:30 +0200
    Re: Towards a custom personalized Debian installer David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 04:10 +0200
    Re: Towards a custom personalized Debian installer Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2020-09-17 10:10 +0200
      Re: Towards a custom personalized Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-09-17 11:30 +0200
        Re: Towards a custom personalized Debian installer rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-09-17 13:50 +0200
        Re: Towards a custom personalized Debian installer Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-09-18 00:20 +0200
          Re: Towards a custom personalized Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-09-18 12:10 +0200
          Re: Towards a custom personalized Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-09-18 12:30 +0200
            Re: Towards a custom personalized Debian installer Andrew Cater <amacater@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 14:30 +0200
              Re: Towards a custom personalized Debian installer Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-09-18 15:50 +0200
                Re: Towards a custom personalized Debian installer "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2020-09-18 17:20 +0200
                  Re: Bad homepage reference for xorriso "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2020-09-20 11:30 +0200
                Re: Towards a custom personalized Debian installer David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-09-18 17:30 +0200
                Re: Towards a custom personalized Debian installer Andrew Cater <amacater@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 20:10 +0200

#227029 — Towards a custom personalized Debian installer

The default of copying an ISO file to a device is inconvenient for my 
peculiar goals.
I want an executable installer resident on an ext4 formatted partition.
It must be possible. A testable installer preceded ISO format.
I'm working thru https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03,
in particular extracting steps for "Manually copying files to the USB 
stick — the flexible way".

What reference am I missing?

TIA

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#227059

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 at 21:29, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:

> I want an executable installer resident on an ext4 formatted partition.

> What reference am I missing?

https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s04.en.html

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#227069

Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> writes:

> The default of copying an ISO file to a device is inconvenient for my
> peculiar goals.
> I want an executable installer resident on an ext4 formatted partition.
> It must be possible. A testable installer preceded ISO format.
> I'm working thru https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03,
> in particular extracting steps for "Manually copying files to the USB
> stick — the flexible way".
>
> What reference am I missing?

I've installed Debian a couple of times with debootstrap. Or actually
grml-debootstrap since I had grml on a USB stick for rescue use
anyways. It does need some kind of Linux environment to run in, not
necessarily Debian though.

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#227072

On 09/17/2020 03:02 AM, Anssi Saari wrote:
> Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> writes:
> 
>> The default of copying an ISO file to a device is inconvenient for my
>> peculiar goals.
>> I want an executable installer resident on an ext4 formatted partition.
>> It must be possible. A testable installer preceded ISO format.
>> I'm working thru https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03,
>> in particular extracting steps for "Manually copying files to the USB
>> stick — the flexible way".
>>
>> What reference am I missing?
> 
> I've installed Debian a couple of times with debootstrap. Or actually
> grml-debootstrap since I had grml on a USB stick for rescue use
> anyways. It does need some kind of Linux environment to run in, not
> necessarily Debian though.
> 

I unsuccessfully tried to us use debootstrap several years ago.
Right now I specifically want to use the normal Debian installer on an 
editable file system.

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#227076

On Thursday, September 17, 2020 05:25:11 AM Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 09/17/2020 03:02 AM, Anssi Saari wrote:
> > Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> writes:
> >> The default of copying an ISO file to a device is inconvenient for my
> >> peculiar goals.
> >> I want an executable installer resident on an ext4 formatted partition.
> >> It must be possible. A testable installer preceded ISO format.
> >> I'm working thru https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03,
> >> in particular extracting steps for "Manually copying files to the USB
> >> stick — the flexible way".
> >> 
> >> What reference am I missing?
> > 
> > I've installed Debian a couple of times with debootstrap. Or actually
> > grml-debootstrap since I had grml on a USB stick for rescue use
> > anyways. It does need some kind of Linux environment to run in, not
> > necessarily Debian though.
> 
> I unsuccessfully tried to us use debootstrap several years ago.
> Right now I specifically want to use the normal Debian installer on an
> editable file system.

I'm probably missing something, but that doesn't sound very difficult.  IIRC, 
there are two ways of "copying" an ISO -- I won't describe them exactly 
correctly, but, aiui, one way makes a copy of the ISO, and the other way sort 
of "unpacks" the iso so that files / executable within the iso are distinct and 
usable (I forget which is which, but, again, iirc, one way is using dd, 
another way could use a variety of approaches including cp).

It seems to me, simply choosing the way that unpacks an ISO, and doing that 
with an ext4 filesystem as the target, should do the job you want.

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#227093

Richard Owlett composed on 2020-09-17 04:25 (UTC-0500):

> Anssi Saari wrote:

>> Richard Owlett writes:

>>> The default of copying an ISO file to a device is inconvenient for my
>>> peculiar goals.
>>> I want an executable installer resident on an ext4 formatted partition.
>>> It must be possible. A testable installer preceded ISO format.
>>> I'm working thru https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03,
>>> in particular extracting steps for "Manually copying files to the USB
>>> stick — the flexible way".

>>> What reference am I missing?

>> I've installed Debian a couple of times with debootstrap. Or actually
>> grml-debootstrap since I had grml on a USB stick for rescue use
>> anyways. It does need some kind of Linux environment to run in, not
>> necessarily Debian though.

> I unsuccessfully tried to us use debootstrap several years ago.
> Right now I specifically want to use the normal Debian installer on an 
> editable file system.

Did you happen to notice what I wrote in
<https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/09/msg00441.html>?

As long has you can have internet access for the process, all you need is a
bootloader able to load two files from a mountable partition, installation kernel
and installation initrd, which starts a net install, downloading the latest
versions of only what is actually needed for your installation. Substantial
pre-configuration is possible via the installation kernel's command line, some of
which is evident in that list post.

IIRC, these two files can also be used to start an installation from .iso or
installation sources located locally. Details I don't know, as I've not tried this
process in much too long ago to remember, but the latter sounds like a match for
what you are looking for.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools, like religion,
	is based on faith, not on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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#227099

On 09/17/2020 05:14 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
> Richard Owlett composed on 2020-09-17 04:25 (UTC-0500):
> 
>> Anssi Saari wrote:
> 
>>> Richard Owlett writes:
> 
>>>> The default of copying an ISO file to a device is inconvenient for my
>>>> peculiar goals.
>>>> I want an executable installer resident on an ext4 formatted partition.
>>>> It must be possible. A testable installer preceded ISO format.
>>>> I'm working thru https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03,
>>>> in particular extracting steps for "Manually copying files to the USB
>>>> stick — the flexible way".
> 
>>>> What reference am I missing?
> 
>>> I've installed Debian a couple of times with debootstrap. Or actually
>>> grml-debootstrap since I had grml on a USB stick for rescue use
>>> anyways. It does need some kind of Linux environment to run in, not
>>> necessarily Debian though.
> 
>> I unsuccessfully tried to us use debootstrap several years ago.
>> Right now I specifically want to use the normal Debian installer on an
>> editable file system.
> 
> Did you happen to notice what I wrote in
> <https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/09/msg00441.html>?
> 
> As long has you can have internet access for the process,

An explicit goal is the ability to do an install without *ANY* internet.
The origin of this goal was when I only had dial-up connectivity.
Currently I have a low data cap and do multiple experimental installs.
To further my understanding of the Debian installer:
> I want an executable installer resident on an ext4 formatted partition.
[implication -> the partition is writable]

> all you need is a
> bootloader able to load two files from a mountable partition, installation kernel
> and installation initrd, which starts a net install, downloading the latest
> versions of only what is actually needed for your installation. Substantial
> pre-configuration is possible via the installation kernel's command line, some of
> which is evident in that list post.
> 
> IIRC, these two files can also be used to start an installation from .iso or
> installation sources located locally. Details I don't know, as I've not tried this
> process in much too long ago to remember, but the latter sounds like a match for
> what you are looking for.
> 

That is tantalizingly close.
As it is said, "The devil is in the details."

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#227100

On 09/17/2020 05:14 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
> Richard Owlett composed on 2020-09-17 04:25 (UTC-0500):
>  
>> I unsuccessfully tried to us use debootstrap several years ago.
>> Right now I specifically want to use the normal Debian installer on an
>> editable file system.
> 
> Did you happen to notice what I wrote in
> <https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/09/msg00441.html>?

Yes.
I think I have a counter example {haven't verified no operator error 
involved} but I've been working on another fundamental issue -- 
understanding the installer.

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#227104

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Richard (et. al.)

If you want an install without any Internet connectivity - you have one
really good choice - but you may need  someone to provide you with media
made on another Debian machine.

The jigdo file which produces a 16GB file for writing to a USB stick is,
essentially, the first three DVDs plus a bit on one medium. It's directly
bootable on a machine that supports boot from USB. it will boot in legacy
(non-UEFI) and UEFI mode. It's ideal. The one thing it doesn't contain is
firmware - but that can be written to another USB stick.One small, cheap,
old stick, one newer stick and some internet connectivity _somewhere_ and
you can do it.

That way, everything is met. I have asked Sledge if he would be prepared to
produce _another_ non-free image in 16GB size but he replied that it wasn't
particularly worth the increased bother and storage size of maintaining the
16GB file for every point release when it could readily be regenerated.

The alternatives are the BluRay media (or possibly the debian-edu media)
both of which are around the same size.

This isn't rocket science - but yours is a distinct edge case. Installs to
a partition and using the partition to bootstrap a second install are
likely to be tested by only one person - yourself - and you would probably
need to submit very detailed bug reports and a significantly compelling use
case to achieve major changes.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy C


On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 10:21 AM Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:

> On 09/17/2020 05:14 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
> > Richard Owlett composed on 2020-09-17 04:25 (UTC-0500):
> >
> >> I unsuccessfully tried to us use debootstrap several years ago.
> >> Right now I specifically want to use the normal Debian installer on an
> >> editable file system.
> >
> > Did you happen to notice what I wrote in
> > <https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/09/msg00441.html>?
>
> Yes.
> I think I have a counter example {haven't verified no operator error
> involved} but I've been working on another fundamental issue --
> understanding the installer.
>
>

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#227107

On 09/18/2020 07:29 AM, Andrew Cater wrote:
> Richard (et. al.)
> 
> If you want an install without any Internet connectivity - you have one
> really good choice - but you may need  someone to provide you with media
> made on another Debian machine.

My policy is to purchase at lease 1 complete DVD set of each Debian 
release (typically not the initial release). I have several machines, 
with one totally isolated from all others and dedicated to experiments.

A link to instructions for creating that media? TIA

> 
> The jigdo file which produces a 16GB file for writing to a USB stick is,
> essentially, the first three DVDs plus a bit on one medium. It's directly
> bootable on a machine that supports boot from USB. it will boot in legacy
> (non-UEFI) and UEFI mode. It's ideal. The one thing it doesn't contain is
> firmware - but that can be written to another USB stick.One small, cheap,
> old stick, one newer stick and some internet connectivity _somewhere_ and
> you can do it.

Sounds like it was designed for someone more on the edge than I. I 
rarely need anything not on DVD1.

> 
> That way, everything is met. I have asked Sledge if he would be prepared to
> produce _another_ non-free image in 16GB size but he replied that it wasn't
> particularly worth the increased bother and storage size of maintaining the
> 16GB file for every point release when it could readily be regenerated.

I *agree*. What is needed is a set of instructions suitable for a 
minimally competent Linux user.

> 
> The alternatives are the BluRay media (or possibly the debian-edu media)
> both of which are around the same size.
> 
> This isn't rocket science - but yours is a distinct edge case.

Before I retired, several employers found that a valuable trait.

> Installs to
> a partition and using the partition to bootstrap a second install are
> likely to be tested by only one person - yourself - and you would probably
> need to submit very detailed bug reports and a significantly compelling use
> case to achieve major changes.

Any bug reports would likely be against documentation rather than 
against the software itself.

> 
> All the very best, as ever,
> 
> Andy C
> 
> 
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 10:21 AM Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 09/17/2020 05:14 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
>>> Richard Owlett composed on 2020-09-17 04:25 (UTC-0500):
>>>
>>>> I unsuccessfully tried to us use debootstrap several years ago.
>>>> Right now I specifically want to use the normal Debian installer on an
>>>> editable file system.
>>>
>>> Did you happen to notice what I wrote in
>>> <https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/09/msg00441.html>?
>>
>> Yes.
>> I think I have a counter example {haven't verified no operator error
>> involved} but I've been working on another fundamental issue --
>> understanding the installer.
>>
>>
> 

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#227109

Hi,

Andrew Cater wrote:
> > The jigdo file which produces a 16GB file for writing to a USB stick is,
> > essentially, the first three DVDs plus a bit on one medium.

Richard Owlett wrote:
> A link to instructions for creating that media? TIA

If you have a Debian with internet connection, hop into my description
about how to do it with a Live Debian system:
  https://wiki.debian.org/JigdoOnLive#Install_package_jigdo-file
and apply it to the stuff in
  https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-16G/
or in the newer directories of
  https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/archive/


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#227160 — Re: Bad homepage reference for xorriso

Hi,

Richard Owlett wrote:
> > https://packages.debian.org/buster/xorriso reports its homepage to be
> > http://libburnia-project.org/. That gives a 404 error.

I wrote:
> If the situation does not get better until the next upstream release i will
> change the "Homepage:" entry in the debian/control files of the packages.

I am glad to report that the redirections to
  https://libburnia-project.org/
and then
  https://dev.lovelyhq.com/libburnia/web/wiki
work again and the links on Debian's package pages are not dead any more.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#227110

By way of introduction, my take on this thread is that the OP wants to
repetitively install a system without the fuss of extraneous devices
like DVDs and USB.

So I'm going to assume that the OP is prepared to make one more
conventional installation as a prequel. During this, the OP uses
tools like apt-get, or apt with the necessary options, to avoid
cleaning the cache in /var/cache/apt/archives. All the .deb files
are then copied and preserved in a partition somewhere on the drive.

On Fri 18 Sep 2020 at 08:40:11 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 09/18/2020 07:29 AM, Andrew Cater wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 10:21 AM Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
> > > On 09/17/2020 05:14 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
> > > > Richard Owlett composed on 2020-09-17 04:25 (UTC-0500):
> > > > 
> > > > > I unsuccessfully tried to us use debootstrap several years ago.
> > > > > Right now I specifically want to use the normal Debian installer on an
> > > > > editable file system.
> > > > 
> > > > Did you happen to notice what I wrote in
> > > > <https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/09/msg00441.html>?
> > > 
> > > Yes.
> > > I think I have a counter example {haven't verified no operator error
> > > involved} but I've been working on another fundamental issue --
> > > understanding the installer.
> > 
> > Richard (et. al.)
> > 
> > If you want an install without any Internet connectivity - you have one
> > really good choice - but you may need  someone to provide you with media
> > made on another Debian machine.
> 
> My policy is to purchase at lease 1 complete DVD set of each Debian
> release (typically not the initial release). I have several machines,
> with one totally isolated from all others and dedicated to
> experiments.

So there we go, that's where you conduct the prequel.

> A link to instructions for creating that media? TIA
> 
> > The jigdo file which produces a 16GB file for writing to a USB stick is,
> > essentially, the first three DVDs plus a bit on one medium. It's directly
> > bootable on a machine that supports boot from USB. it will boot in legacy
> > (non-UEFI) and UEFI mode. It's ideal. The one thing it doesn't contain is
> > firmware - but that can be written to another USB stick.One small, cheap,
> > old stick, one newer stick and some internet connectivity _somewhere_ and
> > you can do it.
> 
> Sounds like it was designed for someone more on the edge than I. I
> rarely need anything not on DVD1.

Good. My method is limited to a subset of the packages you installed
during the prequel.

> > That way, everything is met. I have asked Sledge if he would be prepared to
> > produce _another_ non-free image in 16GB size but he replied that it wasn't
> > particularly worth the increased bother and storage size of maintaining the
> > 16GB file for every point release when it could readily be regenerated.
> 
> I *agree*. What is needed is a set of instructions suitable for a
> minimally competent Linux user.

No, you're the one researching this.

Anyway, the method is to boot using the two-file method already
outlined, with a paragraph inserted into the 40_custom section
of grub.cfg like:

menuentry "Install Debian via HTTP" {
        search --no-floppy --label --set=root noah02
        linux   /boot/linux
        initrd  /boot/initrd.gz
}

(Note: I use LABELs here.) What isn't well covered in the docs for this
method is adding the d-i parameters that the installation devices add
for you. (Take a look at /boot/grub/grub.cfg on any installation device.)

At this point, you check your list archives for
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/06/msg00542.html
but substitute drive partition for USB stick.

That thread only deals with the archives cache, as the subject then
was about merely minimising bandwidth, not eliminating it. How you
deal with /var/lib/apt/lists is left as an exercise for your research.

> > The alternatives are the BluRay media (or possibly the debian-edu media)
> > both of which are around the same size.
> > 
> > This isn't rocket science - but yours is a distinct edge case.
> 
> Before I retired, several employers found that a valuable trait.
> 
> > Installs to
> > a partition and using the partition to bootstrap a second install are
> > likely to be tested by only one person - yourself - and you would probably
> > need to submit very detailed bug reports and a significantly compelling use
> > case to achieve major changes.
> 
> Any bug reports would likely be against documentation rather than
> against the software itself.

If you're keen to submit bug reports, you'd be better off trying a
more conventional method. Read to the end of my post and you'll see
apt-cacher-ng mentioned. So, as you're installing on your dedicated
test machine, you could do all the above conventionally, by running
apt-cacher-ng on one of the other machines and conducting the prequel
there.

But looking at
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/06/msg00604.html
it seems we've been here before.

Cheers,
David.

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#227116

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

http://flosslinuxblog.blogspot.com/2020/07/a-quick-post-on-how-to-use-jigdo-to.html
- was a relatively quick attempt on my part to show how to use jigdo-lite,
a mirror and a USB stick. If you use a wired connection to do this, you
don't necessarily need non-free firmware.

Firmware - see
https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware#Firmware_during_the_installation

https://cloud.debian.org/images/release/current/amd64/jigdo-16G/ is the
current directory with the two files. If you download both, it's only about
50M and an internet connection to your nearest Debian mirror (and the
download can be restarted if interrupted.)

Hope this helps, as ever,

Andy C.

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 1:40 PM Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:

> On 09/18/2020 07:29 AM, Andrew Cater wrote:
> > Richard (et. al.)
> >
> > If you want an install without any Internet connectivity - you have one
> > really good choice - but you may need  someone to provide you with media
> > made on another Debian machine.
>
> My policy is to purchase at lease 1 complete DVD set of each Debian
> release (typically not the initial release). I have several machines,
> with one totally isolated from all others and dedicated to experiments.
>
> A link to instructions for creating that media? TIA
>
> >
> > The jigdo file which produces a 16GB file for writing to a USB stick is,
> > essentially, the first three DVDs plus a bit on one medium. It's directly
> > bootable on a machine that supports boot from USB. it will boot in legacy
> > (non-UEFI) and UEFI mode. It's ideal. The one thing it doesn't contain is
> > firmware - but that can be written to another USB stick.One small, cheap,
> > old stick, one newer stick and some internet connectivity _somewhere_ and
> > you can do it.
>
> Sounds like it was designed for someone more on the edge than I. I
> rarely need anything not on DVD1.
>
> >
> > That way, everything is met. I have asked Sledge if he would be prepared
> to
> > produce _another_ non-free image in 16GB size but he replied that it
> wasn't
> > particularly worth the increased bother and storage size of maintaining
> the
> > 16GB file for every point release when it could readily be regenerated.
>
> I *agree*. What is needed is a set of instructions suitable for a
> minimally competent Linux user.
>
> >
> > The alternatives are the BluRay media (or possibly the debian-edu media)
> > both of which are around the same size.
> >
> > This isn't rocket science - but yours is a distinct edge case.
>
> Before I retired, several employers found that a valuable trait.
>
> > Installs to
> > a partition and using the partition to bootstrap a second install are
> > likely to be tested by only one person - yourself - and you would
> probably
> > need to submit very detailed bug reports and a significantly compelling
> use
> > case to achieve major changes.
>
> Any bug reports would likely be against documentation rather than
> against the software itself.
>
> >
> > All the very best, as ever,
> >
> > Andy C
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 10:21 AM Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 09/17/2020 05:14 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
> >>> Richard Owlett composed on 2020-09-17 04:25 (UTC-0500):
> >>>
> >>>> I unsuccessfully tried to us use debootstrap several years ago.
> >>>> Right now I specifically want to use the normal Debian installer on an
> >>>> editable file system.
> >>>
> >>> Did you happen to notice what I wrote in
> >>> <https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/09/msg00441.html>?
> >>
> >> Yes.
> >> I think I have a counter example {haven't verified no operator error
> >> involved} but I've been working on another fundamental issue --
> >> understanding the installer.
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>

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