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Groups > linux.debian.user > #226825 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2020-09-09 15:30 +0200 |
| Last post | 2020-09-10 23:40 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 69 — 16 participants |
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LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-09-09 15:30 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Andrew Cater <amacater@gmail.com> - 2020-09-09 16:30 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-09-09 16:40 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-09-09 17:00 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-09-10 05:40 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-09-10 08:00 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2020-09-10 08:20 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2020-09-10 12:10 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-09-10 14:50 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-09-10 16:30 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2020-09-11 05:00 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-09-09 19:10 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-09-10 08:10 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-09-09 19:00 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-09-09 19:20 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-09-10 08:20 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2020-09-10 09:30 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-09-10 15:30 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-09-10 18:50 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2020-09-10 19:40 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-09-10 20:00 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-09-10 20:20 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-09-10 20:50 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-09-10 23:00 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-09-10 22:00 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Fabrice BAUZAC-STEHLY <noon@mykolab.com> - 2020-09-11 22:50 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-09-12 11:40 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-09-12 12:00 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2020-09-12 12:50 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-09-12 20:10 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2020-09-12 20:30 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-09-12 20:50 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-09-12 22:30 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-09-12 21:10 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-09-14 14:20 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-09-14 16:10 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Fabrice BAUZAC-STEHLY <noon@mykolab.com> - 2020-09-15 21:30 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-09-16 01:50 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-09-16 02:00 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-09-16 06:00 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-09-16 10:50 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-09-16 11:00 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-09-16 14:30 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-09-16 15:20 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-09-16 17:10 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-09-17 02:50 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2020-09-17 09:40 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-09-17 21:00 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-09-17 22:10 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-09-17 23:50 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-09-18 11:40 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-09-18 14:20 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-09-18 15:20 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2020-09-17 22:40 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-09-17 23:50 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-09-18 13:40 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-09-18 15:30 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-09-18 17:10 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Fabrice BAUZAC-STEHLY <noon@mykolab.com> - 2020-09-18 19:20 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-09-19 13:20 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-09-19 21:50 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-09-21 07:50 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2020-09-21 13:40 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-09-21 17:20 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-09-21 21:40 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-09-20 07:30 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-09-18 11:40 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu Fabrice BAUZAC-STEHLY <noon@mykolab.com> - 2020-09-18 12:40 +0200
Re: LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2020-09-10 23:40 +0200
Page 1 of 4 [1] 2 3 4 Next page →
| From | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-09-09 15:30 +0200 |
| Subject | LEAN Debian install: Exploring task selection menu |
| Message-ID | <AN8kF-1gf-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
IIUC the goal of Debian designers might be summarized as maximizing
functionality for the broadest possible audience. And when there is a
large enough audience for "power tools" there are Debian Pure Blends.
That works very well *most* of the time.
But when it doesn't, it is VERY annoying ;{
Problems include:
1. Download bandwidth or data cap constraints.
{aggravated by treating "recommends" as "depends"}
2. Very large undesired packages {e.g. LibreOffice}
3. Applications cluttering menus for which one uses a better
alternative. {I prefer SeaMonkey over Firefox}
My proposed alternative is to leave unchecked all options on the
"Software Selection" menu[1] and create appropriate pseudo-packages to
be installed with "apt-get --no-install-recommends"
MY QUESTIONS
1. How do I find which packages are explicitly installed by checking a
specific box {primarily Mate}?
2. How do I search the repository for those packages that have a
priority “standard”? [2]
3. Especially when installing from an .iso on a flash drive, how do
I run apt-get before closing the installer?
TIA
[1] Figure 4.13 of
https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-handbook/sect.installation-steps.en.html
[2] 6.3.5.2. Selecting and Installing Software
https://www.debian.org/releases/jessie/i386/ch06s03.html.en
[toc] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Andrew Cater <amacater@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-09-09 16:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AN9gJ-1Ow-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226825 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
Standard advice from me: use the expert install (available under "Advanced
options", I think, from the standard netinst / DVD .iso image. Uncheck all
except standard install (and perhaps SSH server) - no X, no desktop
environment. That gives you a bare, text mode install with < 400 packages
in total. Build on from there. You can drop to a single user shell from the
installer to install extra packages if you really must - or you can just
reboot and use apt/apt-get to check and see what's involved at that point.
If you use wifi - you mght want to add at least any required firmware and
nmcli to get you started.[For myself, I always try to make the first
install be at the end of a cable to avoid wifi problems.]
It does need you to be command line capable. If you really have no
bandwidth, it might mean you need to buy DVDs to bootstrap the system. Be
aware, as you go, that an install from DVD media is only correct up to and
including the first boot - there will always be updates to install after
the first OS install.
On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 1:27 PM Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
> IIUC the goal of Debian designers might be summarized as maximizing
> functionality for the broadest possible audience. And when there is a
> large enough audience for "power tools" there are Debian Pure Blends.
>
> That works very well *most* of the time.
>
> But when it doesn't, it is VERY annoying ;{
>
> Problems include:
> 1. Download bandwidth or data cap constraints.
> {aggravated by treating "recommends" as "depends"}
> 2. Very large undesired packages {e.g. LibreOffice}
> 3. Applications cluttering menus for which one uses a better
> alternative. {I prefer SeaMonkey over Firefox}
>
>
> My proposed alternative is to leave unchecked all options on the
> "Software Selection" menu[1] and create appropriate pseudo-packages to
> be installed with "apt-get --no-install-recommends"
>
>
> MY QUESTIONS
>
> 1. How do I find which packages are explicitly installed by checking a
> specific box {primarily Mate}?
> 2. How do I search the repository for those packages that have a
> priority “standard”? [2]
> 3. Especially when installing from an .iso on a flash drive, how do
> I run apt-get before closing the installer?
>
> TIA
>
>
>
>
> [1] Figure 4.13 of
>
> https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-handbook/sect.installation-steps.en.html
> [2] 6.3.5.2. Selecting and Installing Software
> https://www.debian.org/releases/jessie/i386/ch06s03.html.en
>
>
>
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-09-09 16:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AN9qq-1St-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226825 |
On Wed 09 Sep 2020 at 08:27:13 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> IIUC the goal of Debian designers might be summarized as maximizing
> functionality for the broadest possible audience. And when there is a
> large enough audience for "power tools" there are Debian Pure Blends.
>
> That works very well *most* of the time.
>
> But when it doesn't, it is VERY annoying ;{
>
> Problems include:
> 1. Download bandwidth or data cap constraints.
> {aggravated by treating "recommends" as "depends"}
I assume you're just talking about the installer again when you say this.
> 2. Very large undesired packages {e.g. LibreOffice}
Don't install them, then.
> 3. Applications cluttering menus for which one uses a better
> alternative. {I prefer SeaMonkey over Firefox}
AFAICT you can define menus to contain whatever you like, can't you?
> My proposed alternative is to leave unchecked all options on the
> "Software Selection" menu[1] and create appropriate pseudo-packages to
> be installed with "apt-get --no-install-recommends"
If that floats your boat. Why not just remove the packages you can't abide
when the installer finishes its job, the job it was designed to do in a
simple and reliable manner.
> MY QUESTIONS
>
> 1. How do I find which packages are explicitly installed by checking a
> specific box {primarily Mate}?
You add two small items to the hundreds of occasions on which you've
installed Debian. First, install with MATE checked. Second, install
without it checked. (Or in the opposite order.) Compare the output
of dpkg -l from the two installations.
Of course, you'll say that you only want to know which packages the
installer specifically demanded, and not those brought in as dependencies.
In which case, read the source of the d-i itself. As you run it so often,
it might be worth perusing in its own right, just for interest's sake.
After all---If retirement is not for learning, what use is it?
> 2. How do I search the repository for those packages that have a
> priority “standard”? [2]
Use dpkg-query with $Package and $Priority and grep for standard.
You'll need to set --admindir appropriately.
> 3. Especially when installing from an .iso on a flash drive, how do
> I run apt-get before closing the installer?
As I've had no need or desire to do that, I have no idea how the
regular apt-get would behave when run on a system that hasn't been
"finalised" (for want of a better term). AIUI many of the programs
that run in the d-i are hacked-about versions installed from udebs,
or wrapped up in the swiss-army penknife, busybox. Perhaps just be
patient and let the d-i "close".
> [1] Figure 4.13 of https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-handbook/sect.installation-steps.en.html
> [2] 6.3.5.2. Selecting and Installing Software
> https://www.debian.org/releases/jessie/i386/ch06s03.html.en
Cheers,
David.
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| From | Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-09-09 17:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <AN9JL-1ZK-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226828 |
On Wed, Sep 09, 2020 at 09:35:14AM -0500, David Wright wrote: > On Wed 09 Sep 2020 at 08:27:13 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote: > > 2. How do I search the repository for those packages that have a > > priority “standard”? [2] > > Use dpkg-query with $Package and $Priority and grep for standard. > You'll need to set --admindir appropriately. aptitude search '~pStandard'
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-09-10 05:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ANlBf-Or-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226830 |
On 09/09/2020 09:58 AM, Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Wed, Sep 09, 2020 at 09:35:14AM -0500, David Wright wrote: >> On Wed 09 Sep 2020 at 08:27:13 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote: >>> 2. How do I search the repository for those packages that have a >>> priority “standard”? [2] >> >> Use dpkg-query with $Package and $Priority and grep for standard. >> You'll need to set --admindir appropriately. > > aptitude search '~pStandard' > Thank you. That was what I needed. I can see myself using most of them. Some the truncated description is tantalizing enough that I'll will investigate them further.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-09-10 08:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ANnMJ-25p-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226842 |
On 09/09/2020 10:30 PM, Richard Owlett wrote: > On 09/09/2020 09:58 AM, Greg Wooledge wrote: >> On Wed, Sep 09, 2020 at 09:35:14AM -0500, David Wright wrote: >>> On Wed 09 Sep 2020 at 08:27:13 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote: >>>> 2. How do I search the repository for those packages that have a >>>> priority “standard”? [2] >>> >>> Use dpkg-query with $Package and $Priority and grep for standard. >>> You'll need to set --admindir appropriately. >> >> aptitude search '~pStandard' >> > > Thank you. That was what I needed. I can see myself using most of them. > Some the truncated description is tantalizing enough that I'll will > investigate them further. > The manpage [https://manpages.debian.org/buster/aptitude/aptitude.8.en.html] makes multiple references to "the aptitude reference manual" but gives no link. Where do I find it?
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-09-10 08:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ANo65-2rh-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226846 |
On Thu, 10 Sep 2020 at 15:50, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote: > The manpage > [https://manpages.debian.org/buster/aptitude/aptitude.8.en.html] makes > multiple references to "the aptitude reference manual" but gives no link. > Where do I find it? Under the Help menu when running aptitude interactively, or you can read it directly from the text file /usr/share/aptitude/README
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| From | Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-09-10 12:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ANrGG-4D0-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226850 |
On 10/09/20 6:11 pm, David wrote: > On Thu, 10 Sep 2020 at 15:50, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote: > >> The manpage >> [https://manpages.debian.org/buster/aptitude/aptitude.8.en.html] makes >> multiple references to "the aptitude reference manual" but gives no link. > >> Where do I find it? > > Under the Help menu when running aptitude interactively, or you can read > it directly from the text file > /usr/share/aptitude/README > Huh. That seems an odd location. I would have expected that in /usr/share/doc/aptitude - but that has a link to the above. Richard
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| From | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-09-10 14:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ANubx-77e-23@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226850 |
On 09/10/2020 01:11 AM, David wrote: > On Thu, 10 Sep 2020 at 15:50, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote: > >> The manpage >> [https://manpages.debian.org/buster/aptitude/aptitude.8.en.html] makes >> multiple references to "the aptitude reference manual" but gives no link. > >> Where do I find it? > > Under the Help menu when running aptitude interactively, or you can read > it directly from the text file > /usr/share/aptitude/README > Thank you. I had searched for something titled "aptitude reference manual" ;/ I found [https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/aptitude/index.en.html] which appears to be an HTML version of the "readme". I find HTML easier to navigate than text files and I can reformat the display to accommodate some vision problems.
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| From | Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-09-10 16:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ANvKh-88m-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226861 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Jo, 10 sep 20, 07:40:19, Richard Owlett wrote:
>
> I had searched for something titled "aptitude reference manual" ;/
> I found [https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/aptitude/index.en.html] which
> appears to be an HTML version of the "readme".
>
> I find HTML easier to navigate than text files and I can reformat the
> display to accommodate some vision problems.
apt show aptitude-doc-en
Kind regards,
Andrei
--
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
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| From | David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-09-11 05:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ANHs6-6zg-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226861 |
On Thu, 10 Sep 2020 at 22:40, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote: > On 09/10/2020 01:11 AM, David wrote: > > On Thu, 10 Sep 2020 at 15:50, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote: > >> The manpage > >> [https://manpages.debian.org/buster/aptitude/aptitude.8.en.html] makes > >> multiple references to "the aptitude reference manual" but gives no link. > >> Where do I find it? > > Under the Help menu when running aptitude interactively, or you can read > > it directly from the text file > > /usr/share/aptitude/README > I had searched for something titled "aptitude reference manual" ;/ > I found [https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/aptitude/index.en.html] > which appears to be an HTML version of the "readme". > I find HTML easier to navigate than text files and I can reformat the > display to accommodate some vision problems. On Fri, 11 Sep 2020 at 00:28, Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote: > apt show aptitude-doc-en As Andrei hints, the HTML version that you prefer is also packaged for Debian so you can install it locally by installing the package aptitude-doc-en. The plain text version displayed by the Help menu of the curses version of aptitude is installed by the aptitude-common package.
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-09-09 19:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ANbLz-3qc-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226828 |
On Wed 09 Sep 2020 at 09:35:14 -0500, David Wright wrote: > On Wed 09 Sep 2020 at 08:27:13 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote: > > > 3. Especially when installing from an .iso on a flash drive, how do > > I run apt-get before closing the installer? > > As I've had no need or desire to do that, I have no idea how the > regular apt-get would behave when run on a system that hasn't been > "finalised" (for want of a better term). AIUI many of the programs > that run in the d-i are hacked-about versions installed from udebs, > or wrapped up in the swiss-army penknife, busybox. Perhaps just be > patient and let the d-i "close". The OP is experienced with preseeding and is aware of late_command. All he has to do is apply his knowledge. -- Brian.
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| From | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-09-10 08:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ANnWp-2oc-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226835 |
On 09/09/2020 12:06 PM, Brian wrote: > On Wed 09 Sep 2020 at 09:35:14 -0500, David Wright wrote: > >> On Wed 09 Sep 2020 at 08:27:13 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote: >> >>> 3. Especially when installing from an .iso on a flash drive, how do >>> I run apt-get before closing the installer? >> >> As I've had no need or desire to do that, I have no idea how the >> regular apt-get would behave when run on a system that hasn't been >> "finalised" (for want of a better term). AIUI many of the programs >> that run in the d-i are hacked-about versions installed from udebs, >> or wrapped up in the swiss-army penknife, busybox. Perhaps just be >> patient and let the d-i "close". > > The OP is experienced with preseeding and is aware of late_command. > All he has to do is apply his knowledge. > Have not used preseeding for more than a year. Don't recall ever having used "late" command. Quick look at docs doesn't suggest it will solve problem. When I wake up will read more closely.
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| From | Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-09-09 19:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ANbBT-37D-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226825 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Mi, 09 sep 20, 08:27:13, Richard Owlett wrote:
>
> 1. Download bandwidth or data cap constraints.
> {aggravated by treating "recommends" as "depends"}
If you are referring to package maintainers declaring Depends on other
packages where it should be just a Recommends, do note it is often a
side effect of users disabling automatic installation of Recommends and
then complaining about missing functionality.
Please do file bugs anyway if you are aware of such cases (Depends
instead of Recommends), even if it might end up as 'wontfix'.
> 1. How do I find which packages are explicitly installed by checking a
> specific box {primarily Mate}?
As far as I recall this was answered in great detail in the thread about
tasks.
Kind regards,
Andrei
--
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-09-09 19:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ANbVf-3tr-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226834 |
On Wed 09 Sep 2020 at 19:56:05 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Mi, 09 sep 20, 08:27:13, Richard Owlett wrote:
> >
> > 1. Download bandwidth or data cap constraints.
> > {aggravated by treating "recommends" as "depends"}
>
> If you are referring to package maintainers declaring Depends on other
> packages where it should be just a Recommends, do note it is often a
> side effect of users disabling automatic installation of Recommends and
> then complaining about missing functionality.
I believe the OP is referring to debootstrap's inability to install only
Depends:.
--
Brian.
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| From | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-09-10 08:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ANo65-2rh-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226837 |
On 09/09/2020 12:12 PM, Brian wrote:
> On Wed 09 Sep 2020 at 19:56:05 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>
>> On Mi, 09 sep 20, 08:27:13, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>
>>> 1. Download bandwidth or data cap constraints.
>>> {aggravated by treating "recommends" as "depends"}
>>
>> If you are referring to package maintainers declaring Depends on other
>> packages where it should be just a Recommends, do note it is often a
>> side effect of users disabling automatic installation of Recommends and
>> then complaining about missing functionality.
>
> I believe the OP is referring to debootstrap's inability to install only
> Depends:.
>
No. Apt and cousins allow not installing recommends. There was a recent
thread where someone stated that option not available when installing
the system. More when I wake up.
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| From | Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-09-10 09:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ANpbQ-33Y-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226849 |
On 10.09.20 08:13, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 09/09/2020 12:12 PM, Brian wrote:
>> On Wed 09 Sep 2020 at 19:56:05 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>>
>>> On Mi, 09 sep 20, 08:27:13, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Download bandwidth or data cap constraints.
>>>> {aggravated by treating "recommends" as "depends"}
>>>
>>> If you are referring to package maintainers declaring Depends on other
>>> packages where it should be just a Recommends, do note it is often a
>>> side effect of users disabling automatic installation of Recommends and
>>> then complaining about missing functionality.
>>
>> I believe the OP is referring to debootstrap's inability to install only
>> Depends:.
>>
>
> No. Apt and cousins allow not installing recommends. There was a recent
> thread where someone stated that option not available when installing
> the system. More when I wake up.
>
>
>
Maybe make a minimum install first, then change the global apt
configuration to always apply "--no-install-recommends" as the
predefined parameter if no other flag would be added by the user to the
apt command, and only afterwards enrich your installation by installing
the packages which you need.
You could call "tasksel" again, if you want to use the software bundle
selection menu which you have seen during the initial installation. You
should remind, that if in the tasksel menu deselecting all specifically
named Desktop Environments (Gnome, Xfce, KDE, ...) but still selecting
the top entry "Debian desktop environment" then a full blown Gnome
environment will be downloaded and installed.
You could also look out for package bundles with the name prefix
"task-". For instance "apt search task- | grep mate" will show you that
a bundle package "task-mate-desktop" exists. "apt show
task-mate-desktop" will show you the list of packages which this bundle
package will draw in. Among the listed packages there might appear other
bundles, therefore iterate with "apt show" through the listed package
names for getting ahead some idea of all packages which would become
installed.
Good Luck! Marco.
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| From | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-09-10 15:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ANuOe-7zb-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226851 |
On 09/10/2020 02:28 AM, Marco Möller wrote:
> On 10.09.20 08:13, Richard Owlett wrote:
>> On 09/09/2020 12:12 PM, Brian wrote:
>>> On Wed 09 Sep 2020 at 19:56:05 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mi, 09 sep 20, 08:27:13, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Download bandwidth or data cap constraints.
>>>>> {aggravated by treating "recommends" as "depends"}
>>>>
>>>> If you are referring to package maintainers declaring Depends on other
>>>> packages where it should be just a Recommends, do note it is often a
>>>> side effect of users disabling automatic installation of Recommends and
>>>> then complaining about missing functionality.
>>>
>>> I believe the OP is referring to debootstrap's inability to install only
>>> Depends:.
>>>
>>
>> No. Apt and cousins allow not installing recommends. There was a
>> recent thread where someone stated that option not available when
>> installing the system. More when I wake up.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Maybe make a minimum install first, then change the global apt
> configuration to always apply "--no-install-recommends" as the
> predefined parameter if no other flag would be added by the user to the
> apt command, and only afterwards enrich your installation by installing
> the packages which you need.
*ROFL* with MASSIVE *GRIN* ;/
In my original post I had phrased that as:>> My proposed alternative is
to leave unchecked all options on the
>> "Software Selection" menu and create appropriate pseudo-packages
>> to be installed with "apt-get --no-install-recommends"
>
> You could call "tasksel" again, if you want to use the software bundle
> selection menu which you have seen during the initial installation.
I don't follow what you are trying to say there.
> You
> should remind, that if in the tasksel menu deselecting all specifically
> named Desktop Environments (Gnome, Xfce, KDE, ...) but still selecting
> the top entry "Debian desktop environment" then a full blown Gnome
> environment will be downloaded and installed.
I discovered that long ago. I consider that a bug, but the Debian team
likely considers that a feature.
>
> You could also look out for package bundles with the name prefix
> "task-". For instance "apt search task- | grep mate" will show you that
> a bundle package "task-mate-desktop" exists. "apt show
> task-mate-desktop" will show you the list of packages which this bundle
> package will draw in. Among the listed packages there might appear other
> bundles, therefore iterate with "apt show" through the listed package
> names for getting ahead some idea of all packages which would become
> installed.
I think Greg has pointed me in the right direction when he suggested
" aptitude search '~pStandard' " to deal with another aspect of my
problem. Today's assignment is reading the user manual.
Thanks.
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-09-10 18:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ANxVL-TL-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226862 |
On Thu 10 Sep 2020 at 08:24:41 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 09/10/2020 02:28 AM, Marco Möller wrote:
> > On 10.09.20 08:13, Richard Owlett wrote:
> > > On 09/09/2020 12:12 PM, Brian wrote:
> > > > On Wed 09 Sep 2020 at 19:56:05 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > > > On Mi, 09 sep 20, 08:27:13, Richard Owlett wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. Download bandwidth or data cap constraints.
> > > > > > {aggravated by treating "recommends" as "depends"}
> > > > >
> > > > > If you are referring to package maintainers declaring Depends on other
> > > > > packages where it should be just a Recommends, do note it is often a
> > > > > side effect of users disabling automatic installation of Recommends and
> > > > > then complaining about missing functionality.
> > > >
> > > > I believe the OP is referring to debootstrap's inability to install only
> > > > Depends:.
> > >
> > > No. Apt and cousins allow not installing recommends. There was
> > > a recent thread where someone stated that option not available
> > > when installing the system. More when I wake up.
> > >
> > Maybe make a minimum install first, then change the global apt
> > configuration to always apply "--no-install-recommends" as the
> > predefined parameter if no other flag would be added by the user
> > to the apt command, and only afterwards enrich your installation
> > by installing the packages which you need.
>
> *ROFL* with MASSIVE *GRIN* ;/
>
> In my original post I had phrased that as:>> My proposed alternative
> is to leave unchecked all options on the
> > > "Software Selection" menu and create appropriate pseudo-packages
> > > to be installed with "apt-get --no-install-recommends"
I take it you agree, ten.
> > You could call "tasksel" again, if you want to use the software
> > bundle selection menu which you have seen during the initial
> > installation.
>
> I don't follow what you are trying to say there.
In words of several syllables, you could call "tasksel" again:
$ tasksel --list-tasks
u desktop Debian desktop environment
u gnome-desktop GNOME
u xfce-desktop Xfce
u kde-desktop KDE Plasma
u cinnamon-desktop Cinnamon
u mate-desktop MATE
u lxde-desktop LXDE
u lxqt-desktop LXQt
u web-server web server
i print-server print server
i ssh-server SSH server
u laptop laptop
$
… if you want to use the software bundle selection menu
(which you have seen during the initial installation):
┌───────────────────────────┤ [!] Software selection ├────────────────────────────┐
│ │
│ At the moment, only the core of the system is installed. To tune the system │
│ to your needs, you can choose to install one or more of the following │
│ predefined collections of software. │
│ │
│ Choose software to install: │
│ │
│ [ ] Debian desktop environment │
│ [ ] ... GNOME │
│ [ ] ... Xfce │
│ [ ] ... KDE │
│ [ ] ... Cinnamon │
│ [ ] ... MATE │
│ [ ] ... LXDE │
│ [ ] web server │
│ [*] print server │
│ [*] SSH server │
│ [*] standard system utilities │
│ │
│ <Continue> │
│ │
└─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘
So I might call tasksel to install a web server if I forgot to check
it when I ran the installer.
> > You should remind, that if in the tasksel menu deselecting all
> > specifically named Desktop Environments (Gnome, Xfce, KDE, ...)
> > but still selecting the top entry "Debian desktop environment"
> > then a full blown Gnome environment will be downloaded and
> > installed.
>
> I discovered that long ago. I consider that a bug, but the Debian team
> likely considers that a feature.
So what would your version of an installer do when presented with:
│ [*] Debian desktop environment │
│ [ ] ... GNOME │
│ [ ] ... Xfce │
│ [ ] ... KDE │
│ [ ] ... Cinnamon │
│ [ ] ... MATE │
│ [ ] ... LXDE │
> > You could also look out for package bundles with the name prefix
> > "task-". For instance "apt search task- | grep mate" will show you
> > that a bundle package "task-mate-desktop" exists. "apt show
> > task-mate-desktop" will show you the list of packages which this
> > bundle package will draw in. Among the listed packages there might
> > appear other bundles, therefore iterate with "apt show" through
> > the listed package names for getting ahead some idea of all
> > packages which would become installed.
>
> I think Greg has pointed me in the right direction when he suggested
> " aptitude search '~pStandard' " to deal with another aspect of my
> problem. Today's assignment is reading the user manual.
Cheers,
David.
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| From | Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-09-10 19:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ANyI9-1oS-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #226867 |
On 10.09.20 18:43, David Wright wrote:
> On Thu 10 Sep 2020 at 08:24:41 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
>> On 09/10/2020 02:28 AM, Marco Möller wrote:
>>> On 10.09.20 08:13, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>> On 09/09/2020 12:12 PM, Brian wrote:
>>>>> On Wed 09 Sep 2020 at 19:56:05 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>>>>>> On Mi, 09 sep 20, 08:27:13, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Download bandwidth or data cap constraints.
>>>>>>> {aggravated by treating "recommends" as "depends"}
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you are referring to package maintainers declaring Depends on other
>>>>>> packages where it should be just a Recommends, do note it is often a
>>>>>> side effect of users disabling automatic installation of Recommends and
>>>>>> then complaining about missing functionality.
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe the OP is referring to debootstrap's inability to install only
>>>>> Depends:.
>>>>
>>>> No. Apt and cousins allow not installing recommends. There was
>>>> a recent thread where someone stated that option not available
>>>> when installing the system. More when I wake up.
>>>>
>>> Maybe make a minimum install first, then change the global apt
>>> configuration to always apply "--no-install-recommends" as the
>>> predefined parameter if no other flag would be added by the user
>>> to the apt command, and only afterwards enrich your installation
>>> by installing the packages which you need.
>>
>> *ROFL* with MASSIVE *GRIN* ;/
>>
>> In my original post I had phrased that as:>> My proposed alternative
>> is to leave unchecked all options on the
>>>> "Software Selection" menu and create appropriate pseudo-packages
>>>> to be installed with "apt-get --no-install-recommends"
>
> I take it you agree, ten.
>
>>> You could call "tasksel" again, if you want to use the software
>>> bundle selection menu which you have seen during the initial
>>> installation.
>>
>> I don't follow what you are trying to say there.
>
> In words of several syllables, you could call "tasksel" again:
>
> $ tasksel --list-tasks
> u desktop Debian desktop environment
> u gnome-desktop GNOME
> u xfce-desktop Xfce
> u kde-desktop KDE Plasma
> u cinnamon-desktop Cinnamon
> u mate-desktop MATE
> u lxde-desktop LXDE
> u lxqt-desktop LXQt
> u web-server web server
> i print-server print server
> i ssh-server SSH server
> u laptop laptop
> $
>
> … if you want to use the software bundle selection menu
> (which you have seen during the initial installation):
>
> ┌───────────────────────────┤ [!] Software selection ├────────────────────────────┐
> │ │
> │ At the moment, only the core of the system is installed. To tune the system │
> │ to your needs, you can choose to install one or more of the following │
> │ predefined collections of software. │
> │ │
> │ Choose software to install: │
> │ │
> │ [ ] Debian desktop environment │
> │ [ ] ... GNOME │
> │ [ ] ... Xfce │
> │ [ ] ... KDE │
> │ [ ] ... Cinnamon │
> │ [ ] ... MATE │
> │ [ ] ... LXDE │
> │ [ ] web server │
> │ [*] print server │
> │ [*] SSH server │
> │ [*] standard system utilities │
> │ │
> │ <Continue> │
> │ │
> └─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘
>
> So I might call tasksel to install a web server if I forgot to check
> it when I ran the installer.
>
>>> You should remind, that if in the tasksel menu deselecting all
>>> specifically named Desktop Environments (Gnome, Xfce, KDE, ...)
>>> but still selecting the top entry "Debian desktop environment"
>>> then a full blown Gnome environment will be downloaded and
>>> installed.
>>
>> I discovered that long ago. I consider that a bug, but the Debian team
>> likely considers that a feature.
>
> So what would your version of an installer do when presented with:
>
> │ [*] Debian desktop environment │
> │ [ ] ... GNOME │
> │ [ ] ... Xfce │
> │ [ ] ... KDE │
> │ [ ] ... Cinnamon │
> │ [ ] ... MATE │
> │ [ ] ... LXDE │
>
>>> You could also look out for package bundles with the name prefix
>>> "task-". For instance "apt search task- | grep mate" will show you
>>> that a bundle package "task-mate-desktop" exists. "apt show
>>> task-mate-desktop" will show you the list of packages which this
>>> bundle package will draw in. Among the listed packages there might
>>> appear other bundles, therefore iterate with "apt show" through
>>> the listed package names for getting ahead some idea of all
>>> packages which would become installed.
>>
>> I think Greg has pointed me in the right direction when he suggested
>> " aptitude search '~pStandard' " to deal with another aspect of my
>> problem. Today's assignment is reading the user manual.
>
> Cheers,
> David.
>
> So what would your version of an installer do when presented with:
>
> │ [*] Debian desktop environment │
> │ [ ] ... GNOME │
> │ [ ] ... Xfce │
> │ [ ] ... KDE │
> │ [ ] ... Cinnamon │
> │ [ ] ... MATE │
> │ [ ] ... LXDE │
>
I agree with Richard's criticism and would suggest to not present that
first line "Debian desktop environment" at all, because it is redundant
with the second line "... GNOME". If someone deselects the second line
because no wanting GNOME, but does not image what the first line might
contain, then he will be surprised that GNOME became anyway fully
installed after the first line was still selected, a behaviour which
makes no sense after the second line was explicitly not selected. It is
especially annoying if you did this selection "mistake" on slow or
expensive bandwidth. When I first time did this mistake, I thought, hey,
maybe for a desktop they will install already something like network
manager and other network managing tools or a tiny collection of
enhanced editors like vim instead of vi only, maybe some other cute
utilities. But I ended up with looong time downloading and installing a
full blown GNOME which I actually wanted to avoid and therefore did
unselect the second line initially.
Best regards, Marco.
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