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Apt-get vs Aptitude vs Apt

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  Apt-get vs Aptitude vs Apt Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2020-08-07 19:40 +0200
    Re: Apt-get vs Aptitude vs Apt Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-08-07 22:10 +0200
      Re: Apt-get vs Aptitude vs Apt riveravaldez <riveravaldezmail@gmail.com> - 2020-08-08 01:10 +0200
        Re: Apt-get vs Aptitude vs Apt Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2020-08-08 07:00 +0200
    Re: Apt-get vs Aptitude vs Apt Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-08-11 13:40 +0200
      Re: Apt-get vs Aptitude vs Apt Javier Barroso <javibarroso@gmail.com> - 2020-08-11 15:40 +0200
        Re: Apt-get vs Aptitude vs Apt Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-08-12 08:00 +0200
          Re: Apt-get vs Aptitude vs Apt Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2020-08-13 22:50 +0200

#225988 — Apt-get vs Aptitude vs Apt

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Hey guys,

Recently there was a thread about aptitude dependency resolution
limitations.

Years ago, I believe I read in the Debian documentation that aptitude was
preferred to apt-get, because it seemed to have better dependency
resolution.

Now, we have apt, as well.

So, all other things being equal, which is currently considered to be the
best at dependency resolution?

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#225991

On Fri, 7 Aug 2020 13:31:53 -0400
Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey guys,
> 
> Recently there was a thread about aptitude dependency resolution
> limitations.
> 
> Years ago, I believe I read in the Debian documentation that aptitude
> was preferred to apt-get, because it seemed to have better dependency
> resolution.
> 
> Now, we have apt, as well.
> 
> So, all other things being equal, which is currently considered to be
> the best at dependency resolution?

I believe it is still aptitude.

However, the length of time it takes increases sharply with number of
packages to be upgraded. If you have more than a hundred or so, (not
unusual on unstable) it may take a very long time. It is usually not
the method recommended for upgrading Debian stable to the next version.

-- 
Joe

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#225993

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On Friday, August 7, 2020, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Aug 2020 13:31:53 -0400
> Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> wrote:
>> So, all other things being equal, which is currently considered to be
>> the best at dependency resolution?
>
> I believe it is still aptitude.
>
> However, the length of time it takes increases sharply with number of
> packages to be upgraded. If you have more than a hundred or so, (not
> unusual on unstable) it may take a very long time. It is usually not
> the method recommended for upgrading Debian stable to the next version.

What is the recommended method?

BTW, I keep using apt-get for everything. Should I expect any kind of
problems?

Thanks a lot.

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#225999

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* 2020-08-07 20:04:24-03, riveravaldez wrote:

> On Friday, August 7, 2020, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
>> I believe it is still aptitude.
>>
>> However, the length of time it takes increases sharply with number of
>> packages to be upgraded. If you have more than a hundred or so, (not
>> unusual on unstable) it may take a very long time. It is usually not
>> the method recommended for upgrading Debian stable to the next
>> version.
>
> What is the recommended method?

When upgrading Debian stable to the next stable version always read the
release notes and follow its guide for upgrading. Use the tools and
commands recommended there. The recommended tools and upgrade procedure
have changed in the past and can change in the future so the only good
answer is to read the notes every time.

https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/

For normal security upgrades and package installations user can choose
any tool. The difference is that apt-get and other apt-* tools are more
low level and stable to use in scripts. Obviously it can be used
interactively too. Apt and Aptitude are meant for interactive use.

-- 
/// Teemu Likonen - .-.. http://www.iki.fi/tlikonen/
// OpenPGP: 4E1055DC84E9DFF613D78557719D69D324539450

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#226108

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On Vi, 07 aug 20, 13:31:53, Default User wrote:
> Hey guys,
> 
> Recently there was a thread about aptitude dependency resolution
> limitations.

If you are referring to the limitations of 'aptitude why', this 1) 
reverse dependency and 2) apt / apt-get don't even have (an equivalent 
for) this.
 
> Years ago, I believe I read in the Debian documentation that aptitude was
> preferred to apt-get, because it seemed to have better dependency
> resolution.

The dependency resolution of aptitude is more... advanced ;)

Depending on the situation this may or may not be good. While APT's 
dependency resolution is simpler, it is also more predictable.

> Now, we have apt, as well.

The command 'apt' is just another frontend to APT (the package manager), 
same as apt-get, apt-cache, etc. which it is meant to replace for 
interactive use.

The dependency resolution algorithm is the same. It does have different 
defaults though, e.g. 'apt upgrade' is equivalent to
'apt-get upgrade --with-new-pkgs'.

> So, all other things being equal, which is currently considered to be the
> best at dependency resolution?

Just my personal opinion:

For stable (+ updates, security, backports) it doesn't matter, use 
whichever you like best.

For testing or unstable aptitude's interactive dependency resolution can 
be very useful. It may need some tweaking though, according to my 
archive I was using 

    Aptitude::ProblemResolver::SolutionCost "removals";

to tweak the resolver. This may have changed in the meantime (it's been 
a few releases since I stopped using unstable for my "main" install).

For upgrades between stable releases (also known as a "dist-upgrade" 
because of the 'apt-get' command) always use whatever is recommended in 
the corresponding Release Notes, because that is what was tested and 
found to produce the best results *for that particular distribution 
upgrade*.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#226112

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El mar., 11 ago. 2020 13:31, Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
escribió:

> On Vi, 07 aug 20, 13:31:53, Default User wrote:
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > Recently there was a thread about aptitude dependency resolution
> > limitations.
>
> If you are referring to the limitations of 'aptitude why', this 1)
> reverse dependency and 2) apt / apt-get don't even have (an equivalent
> for) this.
>
> > Years ago, I believe I read in the Debian documentation that aptitude was
> > preferred to apt-get, because it seemed to have better dependency
> > resolution.
>
> The dependency resolution of aptitude is more... advanced ;)
>
> Depending on the situation this may or may not be good. While APT's
> dependency resolution is simpler, it is also more predictable.
>
> > Now, we have apt, as well.
>
> The command 'apt' is just another frontend to APT (the package manager),
> same as apt-get, apt-cache, etc. which it is meant to replace for
> interactive use.
>
> The dependency resolution algorithm is the same. It does have different
> defaults though, e.g. 'apt upgrade' is equivalent to
> 'apt-get upgrade --with-new-pkgs'.
>
> > So, all other things being equal, which is currently considered to be the
> > best at dependency resolution?
>
> Just my personal opinion:
>
> For stable (+ updates, security, backports) it doesn't matter, use
> whichever you like best.
>
> For testing or unstable aptitude's interactive dependency resolution can
> be very useful. It may need some tweaking though, according to my
> archive I was using
>
>     Aptitude::ProblemResolver::SolutionCost "removals";
>
> to tweak the resolver. This may have changed in the meantime (it's been
> a few releases since I stopped using unstable for my "main" install).
>
> For upgrades between stable releases (also known as a "dist-upgrade"
> because of the 'apt-get' command) always use whatever is recommended in
> the corresponding Release Notes, because that is what was tested and
> found to produce the best results *for that particular distribution
> upgrade*.
>
> Kind regards,
> Andrei
> --
> http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


I swiched from aptitude to apt-get/apt some years ago

aptitude need love :(

My problem was mixing 64 and 32 bits packages. Seem aptitude didn't do a
good job

Reading Planet debian and transitions and apt-listbugs (or how It is named)
, apt update && apt full-upgrade , run perfect in unstable

Kind regards



>

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#226127

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On Ma, 11 aug 20, 15:33:53, Javier Barroso wrote:
> 
> I swiched from aptitude to apt-get/apt some years ago
> 
> aptitude need love :(
> 
> My problem was mixing 64 and 32 bits packages. Seem aptitude didn't do a
> good job
> 
> Reading Planet debian and transitions and apt-listbugs (or how It is named)
> , apt update && apt full-upgrade , run perfect in unstable

In my experience[1] 'apt full-upgrade' is rarely needed, even on 
unstable, because 'apt upgrade' allows for new packages (and
'apt autoremove' is needed anyway for removals).

This will take care of most library transitions (e.g. package foo 
depends libbar1 -> libbar2) and packages with the version in their name 
(e.g. linux-image-amd64 depends linux-image-5.6.xx -> 
linux-image-5.7.xx).

The main benefit of aptitude (especially for unstable) is it's 
interactive mode:

 * Easy browsing of packages, (reverse) dependency chains, etc.
 
 * Keeps track of "new" packages, very useful to see what's new in 
   unstable.
 
 * Easy selective disabling of Recommends (or enabling, for those who 
   disable Recommends globally).

 * One step (full-)upgrade and autoremoval of packages (press 'u' to 
   update the package list, 'U' to prepare the full-upgrade, 'g' to 
   inspect the proposed actions and 'g' again to apply).

 * Interactive dependency resolving for when (not if) unstable is 
   broken, with several methods to tweak it (let it search for different 
   solutions, mark specific packages to "keep", etc.).

 * Forbid version, for when (not if) the new version of a package you 
   need has a bug that affects you.
   
   aptitude will then automatically skip to the next version when 
   available (hopefully with the bug fixed, but that's why apt-listbugs 
   exists)

 * possibly more that I forget right now.


And then there's aptitude's search patterns, for which there is 
currently no replacement.

I have aptitude installed on all but the smallest system (aptitude + 
dependencies can be significant for a very small install).

[1] Admittedly my recent experience is only with a smallish install with 
openbox, Kodi and Linux build dependencies (just enough to keep track of 
hardware support for the PINE A64+ and possibly enable some kernel 
options for it that are not enabled in Debian's kernel), though I don't 
expect it to be much worse with a full Desktop Environment install or 
similar.


Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#226177

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 1:58 AM Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Ma, 11 aug 20, 15:33:53, Javier Barroso wrote:
> >
> > I swiched from aptitude to apt-get/apt some years ago
> >
> > aptitude need love :(
> >
> > My problem was mixing 64 and 32 bits packages. Seem aptitude didn't do a
> > good job
> >
> > Reading Planet debian and transitions and apt-listbugs (or how It is named)
> > , apt update && apt full-upgrade , run perfect in unstable
>
> In my experience[1] 'apt full-upgrade' is rarely needed, even on
> unstable, because 'apt upgrade' allows for new packages (and
> 'apt autoremove' is needed anyway for removals).
>
> This will take care of most library transitions (e.g. package foo
> depends libbar1 -> libbar2) and packages with the version in their name
> (e.g. linux-image-amd64 depends linux-image-5.6.xx ->
> linux-image-5.7.xx).
>
> The main benefit of aptitude (especially for unstable) is it's
> interactive mode:
>
>  * Easy browsing of packages, (reverse) dependency chains, etc.
>
>  * Keeps track of "new" packages, very useful to see what's new in
>    unstable.
>
>  * Easy selective disabling of Recommends (or enabling, for those who
>    disable Recommends globally).
>
>  * One step (full-)upgrade and autoremoval of packages (press 'u' to
>    update the package list, 'U' to prepare the full-upgrade, 'g' to
>    inspect the proposed actions and 'g' again to apply).
>
>  * Interactive dependency resolving for when (not if) unstable is
>    broken, with several methods to tweak it (let it search for different
>    solutions, mark specific packages to "keep", etc.).
>
>  * Forbid version, for when (not if) the new version of a package you
>    need has a bug that affects you.
>
>    aptitude will then automatically skip to the next version when
>    available (hopefully with the bug fixed, but that's why apt-listbugs
>    exists)
>
>  * possibly more that I forget right now.
>
>
> And then there's aptitude's search patterns, for which there is
> currently no replacement.
>
> I have aptitude installed on all but the smallest system (aptitude +
> dependencies can be significant for a very small install).
>
> [1] Admittedly my recent experience is only with a smallish install with
> openbox, Kodi and Linux build dependencies (just enough to keep track of
> hardware support for the PINE A64+ and possibly enable some kernel
> options for it that are not enabled in Debian's kernel), though I don't
> expect it to be much worse with a full Desktop Environment install or
> similar.
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Andrei
> --
> http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

--------------------------------------------

Okay, so I see no reason not to just continue to use aptitude.  It
seems to work for me as well as anything else.  Thanks to all.

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