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After software update systemd runs into timeouts

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  After software update systemd runs into timeouts Urs Thuermann <urs@isnogud.escape.de> - 2020-08-05 13:20 +0200
    Re: After software update systemd runs into timeouts Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-08-05 15:50 +0200
      Re: After software update systemd runs into timeouts Urs Thuermann <urs@isnogud.escape.de> - 2020-08-05 18:10 +0200
    Re: After software update systemd runs into timeouts Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-08-05 16:50 +0200
      Re: After software update systemd runs into timeouts Urs Thuermann <urs@isnogud.escape.de> - 2020-08-05 18:30 +0200
        Re: After software update systemd runs into timeouts Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-08-05 22:10 +0200
          Re: After software update systemd runs into timeouts Urs Thuermann <urs@isnogud.escape.de> - 2020-08-05 23:20 +0200
            Re: After software update systemd runs into timeouts David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-08-06 02:40 +0200
              aptitude why (Was: Re: After software update systemd runs into timeouts) Urs Thuermann <urs@isnogud.escape.de> - 2020-08-06 10:20 +0200
                Re: aptitude why (Was: Re: After software update systemd runs into  timeouts) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-08-06 13:50 +0200
                  Re: aptitude why (Was: Re: After software update systemd runs into timeouts) Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2020-08-06 15:40 +0200
                  Re: aptitude why (Was: Re: After software update systemd runs into  timeouts) The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-08-07 04:10 +0200

#225881 — After software update systemd runs into timeouts

I run a server with Debian 9 and haven't resisted the conversion to
systemd strong enough, therefore I now have a couple of problems with
stability and availability.

One of them is, that often after software updates systemd-logind.service
fails to start and ssh logins take a very long time.  I suspect this has
to do with shared libs being replaced while being used by running
processes.  This usually causes no problems for everything else except
systemd.  When that problem occurs, using lsof I find and restart every
service using deleted files.  Sometimes this helps but not always.

When I try to restart systemd-logind.service it fails with an error
message after a timeout of 1:30 minutes, but then doesn't give any
information about the problem (instead it prefers to show off how little
resources it used and cluttering up output with static info like URLs,
both of which don't belong in a status output):

# time systemctl restart systemd-logind.service 
Job for systemd-logind.service failed because a timeout was exceeded.
See "systemctl status systemd-logind.service" and "journalctl -xe" for details.

real    1m30.270s
user    0m0.003s
sys     0m0.004s
# systemctl status systemd-logind.service 
● systemd-logind.service - Login Service
   Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/systemd-logind.service; static; vendor preset: enabled)
   Active: activating (start) since Wed 2020-08-05 11:06:06 CEST; 51s ago
     Docs: man:systemd-logind.service(8)
           man:logind.conf(5)
           http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/logind
           http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/multiseat
 Main PID: 29560 (systemd-logind)
   Status: "Processing requests..."
    Tasks: 1 (limit: 4915)
   Memory: 1.0M
      CPU: 10ms
   CGroup: /system.slice/systemd-logind.service
           └─29560 /lib/systemd/systemd-logind

Aug 05 11:06:06 bit systemd-logind[29560]: New session 3893 of user urs.
Aug 05 11:06:06 bit systemd-logind[29560]: New session 3889 of user urs.
...


The log messages in /var/log/syslog also don't give enough information
about what has failed, but it seems systemd tries to restart that service
in the background:

Aug  5 11:06:06 bit systemd[1]: systemd-logind.service: Start operation timed out. Terminating.
Aug  5 11:06:06 bit systemd[1]: Failed to start Login Service.
Aug  5 11:06:06 bit systemd[1]: systemd-logind.service: Unit entered failed state.
Aug  5 11:06:06 bit systemd[1]: systemd-logind.service: Failed with result 'timeout'.
Aug  5 11:06:06 bit systemd[1]: systemd-logind.service: Service has no hold-off time, scheduling restart.
Aug  5 11:06:06 bit systemd[1]: Stopped Login Service.
Aug  5 11:06:06 bit systemd[1]: Starting Login Service...

# grep Start /var/log/syslog | tail -10
Aug  5 11:37:41 bit systemd[1]: systemd-logind.service: Start operation timed out. Terminating.
Aug  5 11:37:41 bit systemd[1]: Starting Login Service...
Aug  5 11:39:11 bit systemd[1]: systemd-logind.service: Start operation timed out. Terminating.
Aug  5 11:39:11 bit systemd[1]: Starting Login Service...
Aug  5 11:40:41 bit systemd[1]: systemd-logind.service: Start operation timed out. Terminating.
Aug  5 11:40:41 bit systemd[1]: Starting Login Service...
Aug  5 11:42:11 bit systemd[1]: systemd-logind.service: Start operation timed out. Terminating.
Aug  5 11:42:11 bit systemd[1]: Starting Login Service...
Aug  5 11:43:41 bit systemd[1]: systemd-logind.service: Start operation timed out. Terminating.
Aug  5 11:43:41 bit systemd[1]: Starting Login Service...


With jounalctl you also see the bloated logs which make them unpleasant to
search and it doesn't have more info than /var/log/syslog.

I had this problem 5 to 10 times until now, I have tried fixing it
everytime for an hour or so, and finally given up rebooting the machine.

Is there anything one can do to make systemd working properly again?

<rant>
In my 30 years of experience with Unix I have always loved the simplicity,
elegance, and stability.  With Linux in general and specifically Debian
with apt, I liked how easily you can update software without disturbing
the running system -- until the advent of systemd.  It makes everything
more complicate, non-Unix-ish, and less stable.  In my experience, systemd
is the end to "Debian as the maintainable OS".

Now I have the choice of not updating, rebooting after most updates, or
having to wait a minute or so for each remote login.  All unacceptable for
a server with long-running processes, hosting a couple of virtual
machines, and high uptimes.
</rant>

urs

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#225891

On Wed, Aug 05, 2020 at 12:43:18PM +0200, Urs Thuermann wrote:
> Aug  5 11:06:06 bit systemd[1]: systemd-logind.service: Start operation timed out. Terminating.
> Aug  5 11:06:06 bit systemd[1]: Failed to start Login Service.
> Aug  5 11:06:06 bit systemd[1]: systemd-logind.service: Unit entered failed state.

Google led me to <https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=192053>
which, although it's for Arch Linux and not Debian, might possibly
be relevant for you.

In particular, what does "ls -ld /var/run" say?

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#225897

Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> writes:

> Google led me to <https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=192053>
> which, although it's for Arch Linux and not Debian, might possibly
> be relevant for you.
> 
> In particular, what does "ls -ld /var/run" say?

The symlink /var/run -> /run is OK.  My problem is probably the same
as in https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=770135 and
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=823987 which is
nearly 6 years old.  Unfortunately, it seems not to be solved.

urs

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#225893

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On Mi, 05 aug 20, 12:43:18, Urs Thuermann wrote:
> I run a server with Debian 9 and haven't resisted the conversion to
> systemd strong enough, therefore I now have a couple of problems with
> stability and availability.
> 
> One of them is, that often after software updates systemd-logind.service
> fails to start and ssh logins take a very long time.  I suspect this has
> to do with shared libs being replaced while being used by running
> processes.  This usually causes no problems for everything else except
> systemd.  When that problem occurs, using lsof I find and restart every
> service using deleted files.  Sometimes this helps but not always.

The package 'needrestart' hooks into APT and offers to restart any 
affected services.
 
Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#225899

Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> writes:

> The package 'needrestart' hooks into APT and offers to restart any 
> affected services.

Thx, I didn't know needrestart until today, but learned about in in
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=770135 and
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=823987.

But regardless of using needrestart or finding grepping them from the
output of lsof, it seems systemd has problems with it or dbus being
restarted.

The bug is obviously nearly 6 years old but hasn't been fixed yet.

I have spent much time today restarting dbus, ssh, and/or several
systemd services in different order.  Also systemctl daemon-reexec.
Nothing seems to help and it seems systemd bugs again force me to
reboot.  But I am currently 700 km away from my server for the next
1.5 weeks and noone else has access to it.  So I'd prefer not to risk
it.

urs

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#225911

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On Mi, 05 aug 20, 18:02:12, Urs Thuermann wrote:
> Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > The package 'needrestart' hooks into APT and offers to restart any 
> > affected services.
> 
> Thx, I didn't know needrestart until today, but learned about in in
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=770135 and
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=823987.
> 
> But regardless of using needrestart or finding grepping them from the
> output of lsof, it seems systemd has problems with it or dbus being
> restarted.
> 
> The bug is obviously nearly 6 years old but hasn't been fixed yet.

#770135 is closed as unreproducible with recent (at the time) systemd, 
see https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=770135#138 and 
follow-ups.

It's of course possible to reopen the bug if it still exists, though 
stretch is oldstable now and in LTS mode.

Ideally you should try to reproduce it in unstable, or at least buster 
(maybe a fix would qualify for a stable update).
 
> I have spent much time today restarting dbus, ssh, and/or several
> systemd services in different order.  Also systemctl daemon-reexec.
> Nothing seems to help and it seems systemd bugs again force me to
> reboot.  But I am currently 700 km away from my server for the next
> 1.5 weeks and noone else has access to it.  So I'd prefer not to risk
> it.

On a server it might be possible to simply not use systemd-logind.  E.g.  
(at least on buster) libpam-systemd is only recommended by systemd and 
openssh-server.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#225913

Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> writes:

> It's of course possible to reopen the bug if it still exists, though 
> stretch is oldstable now and in LTS mode.

I plan to upgrade to buster, but only after August 15th.

> On a server it might be possible to simply not use systemd-logind.  E.g.  
> (at least on buster) libpam-systemd is only recommended by systemd and 
> openssh-server.

Although 'aptitude why' only shows libpam-systemd is recommended by
systemd, I cannot purge it since other packages seem to depend on it:

    # aptitude why libpam-systemd
    i   systemd Recommends libpam-systemd
    # aptitude purge libpam-systemd
    The following packages will be REMOVED:
      libpam-systemd{p}
    0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
    Need to get 0 B of archives. After unpacking 379 kB will be freed.
    The following packages have unmet dependencies:
     policykit-1 : Depends: libpam-systemd but it is not going to be installed
    The following actions will resolve these dependencies:
    
         Remove the following packages:
    1)     libvirt-daemon-system [3.0.0-4+deb9u4 (now, oldstable)]
    2)     policykit-1 [0.105-18+deb9u1 (now, oldstable)]
    
         Leave the following dependencies unresolved:
    3)     needrestart recommends libpam-systemd | sysvinit-core
    4)     openssh-server recommends libpam-systemd
    5)     systemd recommends libpam-systemd
    6)     virt-manager recommends libvirt-daemon-system (>= 1.2.7)
    7)     xserver-xorg-core recommends libpam-systemd
    
    
    
    Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?]

Should this be considered a bug?  Shouldn't 'aptitude why' show the
packages that depend on it?

urs

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#225917

On Wed 05 Aug 2020 at 22:53:26 (+0200), Urs Thuermann wrote:

> Should this be considered a bug?  Shouldn't 'aptitude why' show the
> packages that depend on it?

Why not read the man page:

       Note
       aptitude why does not perform full dependency
       resolution; it only displays direct relationships
       between packages. For instance, if A requires B, C
       requires D, and B and C conflict, “aptitude why-not D”
       will not produce the answer “A depends on B, B
       conflicts with C, and D depends on C”.

   By default aptitude outputs only the “most installed,
   strongest, tightest, shortest” dependency chain. That is,
   it looks for a chain that only contains packages which are
   installed or will be installed; it looks for the strongest
   possible dependencies under that restriction; it looks for
   chains that avoid ORed dependencies and Provides; and it
   looks for the shortest dependency chain meeting those
   criteria. These rules are progressively weakened until a
   match is found.

   If the verbosity level is 1 or more, then all the
   explanations aptitude can find will be displayed, in
   inverse order of relevance. If the verbosity level is 2 or
   more, a truly excessive amount of debugging information
   will be printed to standard output.

>     # aptitude why libpam-systemd
>     i   systemd Recommends libpam-systemd
>     # 

This looks like you used the default. You will probably need to pipe
the output through less:

$ aptitude why libpam-systemd | wc
      1       4      35
$ aptitude -v why libpam-systemd | wc
  26449  130410 1657367
$ aptitude -v -v why libpam-systemd | wc
4317784 23501088 268859202
$ 

BTW, with -s you don't need to do this sort of analysis as root.

$ aptitude -s purge libpam-systemd
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  libpam-systemd{p} 
0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B of archives. After unpacking 406 kB will be freed.
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 udisks2 : Depends: libpam-systemd but it is not going to be installed
 policykit-1 : Depends: libpam-systemd but it is not going to be installed
 dbus-user-session : Depends: libpam-systemd but it is not going to be installed
The following actions will resolve these dependencies:

      Remove the following packages:                                      
1)      colord [1.4.3-4 (now, stable)]                                    
2)      dbus-user-session [1.12.20-0+deb10u1 (now, stable)]               
3)      policykit-1 [0.105-25 (now, stable)]                              
4)      udisks2 [2.8.1-4 (now, stable)]                                   

      Install the following packages:                                     
5)      dbus-x11 [1.12.20-0+deb10u1 (stable)]                             

      Leave the following dependencies unresolved:                        
6)      cups recommends colord                                            
7)      cups-daemon recommends colord                                     
8)      cups-filters recommends colord                                    
9)      hplip recommends policykit-1                                      
10)     needrestart recommends libpam-systemd | sysvinit-core             
11)     openssh-server recommends default-logind | logind | libpam-systemd
12)     systemd recommends libpam-systemd                                 
13)     udisks2 recommends policykit-1                                    
14)     xserver-xorg-core recommends libpam-systemd                       

Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?] q
Abandoning all efforts to resolve these dependencies.
Abort.
$ 

Cheers,
David.

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#225929 — aptitude why (Was: Re: After software update systemd runs into timeouts)

David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> writes:

> On Wed 05 Aug 2020 at 22:53:26 (+0200), Urs Thuermann wrote:
> 
> > Should this be considered a bug?  Shouldn't 'aptitude why' show the
> > packages that depend on it?
> 
> Why not read the man page:
> 
>        Note
>        aptitude why does not perform full dependency
>        resolution; it only displays direct relationships
>        between packages. For instance, if A requires B, C
>        requires D, and B and C conflict, “aptitude why-not D”
>        will not produce the answer “A depends on B, B
>        conflicts with C, and D depends on C”.
> 
>    By default aptitude outputs only the "most installed,
>    strongest, tightest, shortest" dependency chain. That is,
>    it looks for a chain that only contains packages which are
>    installed or will be installed; it looks for the strongest
>    possible dependencies under that restriction; it looks for
>    chains that avoid ORed dependencies and Provides; and it
>    looks for the shortest dependency chain meeting those
>    criteria. These rules are progressively weakened until a
>    match is found.

This is exactly what made me think it is a bug.  aptitude should show
the strongest chain, and "Depends" is stronger than "Recommends".  But
aptitude shows a "Recommends" although a "Depends" exists:

$ aptitude why libpam-systemd
i   systemd Recommends libpam-systemd
$ aptitude why policykit-1 libpam-systemd
i A policykit-1 Depends libpam-systemd

But now I see reason: policykit-1 is also installed only because
virt-manager *recommends* libvirt-daemon-system which depends on
policykit-1:

$ aptitude why virt-manager libpam-systemd
i   virt-manager          Recommends libvirt-daemon-system (>= 1.2.7)
i A libvirt-daemon-system Depends    policykit-1
i A policykit-1           Depends    libpam-systemd

But since that chain is longer, aptitude shows the recommendation of
systemd.  In the output of aptitude purge in my other mail I hadn't
realized that libvirt-daemon-system is also only automatically
installed.

But thanks anyway for pointing out these sections of the man page.  I
wasn't aware of all the details and now understand better what
aptitude does.

urs

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#225935 — Re: aptitude why (Was: Re: After software update systemd runs into timeouts)

Urs Thuermann wrote: 
> $ aptitude why libpam-systemd
> i   systemd Recommends libpam-systemd
> $ aptitude why policykit-1 libpam-systemd
> i A policykit-1 Depends libpam-systemd
> 
> But now I see reason: policykit-1 is also installed only because
> virt-manager *recommends* libvirt-daemon-system which depends on
> policykit-1:
> 
> $ aptitude why virt-manager libpam-systemd
> i   virt-manager          Recommends libvirt-daemon-system (>= 1.2.7)
> i A libvirt-daemon-system Depends    policykit-1
> i A policykit-1           Depends    libpam-systemd
> 
> But since that chain is longer, aptitude shows the recommendation of
> systemd.  In the output of aptitude purge in my other mail I hadn't
> realized that libvirt-daemon-system is also only automatically
> installed.

Interesting bit here: libvirt-daemon-system supplies the startup
scripts for libvirtd, both sysvinit style and systemd style. It
has no other function.

If you want to use sysvinit *and* libvirtd, you either need to
write your own scripts or extract them from the .deb and not
install it, because the Depends will end up installing
systemd-sysv and thus replacing init.

libvirt-daemon-system ought to be two packages, or the sysvinit
scripts ought to be included with libvirt-daemon.

In unstable, it becomes two packages.

-dsr-

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#225936 — Re: aptitude why (Was: Re: After software update systemd runs into timeouts)

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On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 7:42 AM Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> wrote:

> Urs Thuermann wrote:
> > $ aptitude why libpam-systemd
> > i   systemd Recommends libpam-systemd
> > $ aptitude why policykit-1 libpam-systemd
> > i A policykit-1 Depends libpam-systemd
> >
> > But now I see reason: policykit-1 is also installed only because
> > virt-manager *recommends* libvirt-daemon-system which depends on
> > policykit-1:
> >
> > $ aptitude why virt-manager libpam-systemd
> > i   virt-manager          Recommends libvirt-daemon-system (>= 1.2.7)
> > i A libvirt-daemon-system Depends    policykit-1
> > i A policykit-1           Depends    libpam-systemd
> >
> > But since that chain is longer, aptitude shows the recommendation of
> > systemd.  In the output of aptitude purge in my other mail I hadn't
> > realized that libvirt-daemon-system is also only automatically
> > installed.
>
> Interesting bit here: libvirt-daemon-system supplies the startup
> scripts for libvirtd, both sysvinit style and systemd style. It
> has no other function.
>
> If you want to use sysvinit *and* libvirtd, you either need to
> write your own scripts or extract them from the .deb and not
> install it, because the Depends will end up installing
> systemd-sysv and thus replacing init.
>

I wonder what our colleagues, over at Devuan are doing about this.  I
copied the Devuan Developers list, and will follow their responses on my
ProtonMail account.

>
> libvirt-daemon-system ought to be two packages, or the sysvinit
> scripts ought to be included with libvirt-daemon.
>
> In unstable, it becomes two packages.
>

Kenneth Parker

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#225960 — Re: aptitude why (Was: Re: After software update systemd runs into timeouts)

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On 2020-08-06 at 07:24, Dan Ritter wrote:

> Urs Thuermann wrote:
> 
>> $ aptitude why libpam-systemd
>> i   systemd Recommends libpam-systemd
>> $ aptitude why policykit-1 libpam-systemd
>> i A policykit-1 Depends libpam-systemd
>> 
>> But now I see reason: policykit-1 is also installed only because
>> virt-manager *recommends* libvirt-daemon-system which depends on
>> policykit-1:
>> 
>> $ aptitude why virt-manager libpam-systemd
>> i   virt-manager          Recommends libvirt-daemon-system (>= 1.2.7)
>> i A libvirt-daemon-system Depends    policykit-1
>> i A policykit-1           Depends    libpam-systemd
>> 
>> But since that chain is longer, aptitude shows the recommendation of
>> systemd.  In the output of aptitude purge in my other mail I hadn't
>> realized that libvirt-daemon-system is also only automatically
>> installed.
> 
> Interesting bit here: libvirt-daemon-system supplies the startup
> scripts for libvirtd, both sysvinit style and systemd style. It
> has no other function.
> 
> If you want to use sysvinit *and* libvirtd, you either need to
> write your own scripts or extract them from the .deb and not
> install it, because the Depends will end up installing
> systemd-sysv and thus replacing init.
> 
> libvirt-daemon-system ought to be two packages, or the sysvinit
> scripts ought to be included with libvirt-daemon.

At a glance, I'd guess that
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=897936 and/or
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=765448 may be
relevant.

#765448 may not be valid anymore; although libvirt-daemon-system still
depends on policykit-1, policykit-1 now depends not on libpam-systemd
(thereby bringing in systemd-as-the-init-system) but on 'default-logind
| logind', which means that elogind can satisfy the requirement under
sysvinit.

Indeed, 'apt-get --dry-run install libvirt-daemon-system' on current
testing on a machine running sysvinit (and with one type or another of
blacklist on libpam-systemd) attempts to install elogind and
libvirt-daemon-system-sysv, and does not bring in anything directly
systemd-related at all as far as I can see. As such, #765488 should
probably be updated, because the specific statement it gives does not
seem to be true anymore.

So the question on my end now becomes whether installing elogind causes
the negative symptoms which I barely even remember anymore from when I
was trying out libpam-systemd via systemd-shim - and I think I'm willing
to try the experiment and find out, in the hope of possibly being once
again able to actually run VMs on this machine without having to manage
them manually. The biggest downside seems to be the need to carefully
specify packages at install time to avoid having some packages
unnecessarily removed during the transition from libsystemd0 to
libelogind0, but I think I've navigated that without troubles.

(#897936 seems to still be valid, at least insofar as this information
changes anything. I still hope for a fix, since I'd prefer not to have a
logind running on my system at all, whether provided via systemd or
not.)

> In unstable, it becomes two packages.

In testing, too, as far as I can tell.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

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