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Re: Debian Developers Have Been Listening!

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On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 6:19 AM, Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 22 May 2017 08:30:15 +0900 Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 1:48 AM, Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > A while ago, I initiated the "If Linux Is About Choice ..." thread
>> > about why there is no choice of inits during an initial install.
>> >
>> > Since that time, I've tested several systemd-less distros[1] as
>> > well as Stretch as replacements for my aging Wheezy system.  With
>> > Stretch my plan was to see if I could replace systemd as the init
>> > without removing it just leaving its components (some or all as
>> > necessary) to meet dependencies without it breaking the system
>>
>> ???
>
> Could you be a little more specific?  Or should I?

Thank you for being more specific.

>> > That way there would be no
>> > need for third party repos or jumping through hoops to keep a
>> > systemd-less working. I figured it would be a somewhat difficult,
>> > time consuming process. However, I made a discovery during these
>> > tests: The Debian developers had already done it for me.  They made
>> > switching from systemd as the init to sysvinit or runit easy just
>> > by issuing a couple commands. Here's what you do.
>>
>> I thought that information came out several times in the thread you
>> mention having started -- that it was possible to install the base
>> system, then disable and remove the main systemd component, just
>> leaving some of the pieces that have been picked up as dependencies
>> by other packages.
>
> That scenerio was mentioned and was known by me, but usually used to
> prevent systemd from being installed all.  But since Debian is now
> systemd dependent and doing that will cause problems.  You either have
> to use third party repos or compile stuff yourself, have local repos,
> etc just to get things to work.  I ended up with a simplier solution:
> Just treat systemd like any other dependency, then no special repos,
> compiling, etc.  And it worked!  And the Stretch developers made it
> easy to do which wasn't available with Jessie. Thank you developers.
>
> My original thread was on why there is no choice of init at install
> time. You have choices on almost everything else. Anyway, most of the
> answers were ambiguous, a few acrimonious.  No matter.
>
>> Maybe the discussion of using more advanced techniques to keep from
>> ever installing systemd in the first place hid the information about
>> the removal approach.
>
> Too many hoops to jump through to eliminate systemd if major
> components (GNOME, udev, udisks2, policykit-1, etc) have it (or parts of
> it) as dependencies.  Just look at all Devuan had to go through to do
> it.
>
>> If so, it would seem to be worthwhile to have this separate thread,
>> as well.
>
> I don't think it would do any good.  Debian has chosen systemd, for
> better or worse, and I don't see that changing.  Users and
> administrators will either adapt or adopt another distro.
>
> I just hope my little "fix" is useful to someone else.  FWIW, I found
> without systemd as the init and supervisor, I have about 7.5 MB more
> free RAM.
>
> B
>

When I have enough money to replace this half-broken laptop I'm using,
I'll probably post more questions on the above.

Thanks.


--
Joel Rees

One of these days I'll get someone to pay me
to design a language that combines the best of Forth and C.
Then I'll be able to leap wide instruction sets with a single #ifdef,
run faster than a speeding infinite loop with a #define,
and stop all integer size bugs with a bare cast.

More of my delusions:
http://reiisi.blogspot.com/2017/05/do-not-pay-modern-danegeld-ransomware.html
http://reiisi.blogspot.jp/p/novels-i-am-writing.html

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Thread

Debian Developers Have Been Listening! Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 18:50 +0200
  Re: Debian Developers Have Been Listening! Dominik George <nik@naturalnet.de> - 2017-05-18 19:10 +0200
    Re: Debian Developers Have Been Listening! Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2017-05-20 15:40 +0200
      Re: Debian Developers Have Been Listening! Dominik George <nik@naturalnet.de> - 2017-05-20 16:30 +0200
      Re: Debian Developers Have Been Listening! Cat <cat@zip.com.au> - 2017-05-20 16:40 +0200
        Re: Debian Developers Have Been Listening! Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2017-05-20 16:50 +0200
        Re: Debian Developers Have Been Listening! Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2017-05-21 12:10 +0200
      Re: Debian Developers Have Been Listening! Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2017-05-20 17:40 +0200
        Re: Debian Developers Have Been Listening! Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2017-05-20 18:30 +0200
          Re: Debian Developers Have Been Listening! Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-05-21 23:50 +0200
            Re: Debian Developers Have Been Listening! Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-22 01:30 +0200
              Re: Debian Developers Have Been Listening! Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-05-22 02:20 +0200
  Re: Debian Developers Have Been Listening! Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 19:30 +0200
  Re: Debian Developers Have Been Listening! Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-05-19 16:20 +0200
    Re: Debian Developers Have Been Listening! Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-05-23 22:50 +0200
      Re: Debian Developers Have Been Listening! David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-05-24 01:50 +0200
        Re: Debian Developers Have Been Listening! Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-05-24 17:30 +0200
          Re: Debian Developers Have Been Listening! Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2017-05-24 19:20 +0200
  Re: Debian Developers Have Been Listening! Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-22 01:40 +0200
    Re: Debian Developers Have Been Listening! Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-05-23 23:20 +0200
      Re: Debian Developers Have Been Listening! Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2017-05-24 09:40 +0200
        Re: Debian Developers Have Been Listening! <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-05-24 09:40 +0200
      Re: Debian Developers Have Been Listening! Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-24 11:50 +0200

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