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Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free Software unfriendly

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You seem to be suggesting that Debian users now need to read XX pages of release notes and guides in order to learn that what they're installing is not what the Debian.org homepage "Why Debian", "Our Philosophy", and "Who We Are / What We Do" pages are currently promoting Debian as.

That's not right. Period. If the Installers are not ALL going to give users the choice to opt-in or opt-out of non-free components, then those above-mentioned promotional pages really need to be updated so as to not be misleading users. 

But BETTER yet, why not just update all the installers to give users that choice? That's what I'm strongly suggesting. Something very wrong/misleading/deceptive is happening right now.

Regarding "perhaps it could be spelled out more explicitly... that live media is primarily for trying out Debian": Using those live image Debian installers has been very convenient up through Bullseye because they automatically installed a preferred Desktop. But if those installers are now also going install 29 non-free packages without clear warning and without opt-in/out choices (as they currently are), then there should be a GIANT RED WARNING on the live-image download page of that fact. All those live images also contain installers, and it's unreasonable to expect that people who are trying Debian out would not later use the built-in installer if they like what they've tried. But at the moment, it they do use those installers, what they're getting is not what's been promoted on Debian homepage "Why Debian", "Our Philosophy" and "Who We Are / What We Do" pages.

This is about Doing what's right and/or Telling the truth. Best would be both. But what's currently happening is neither.

P.S. Regarding your link to https://www.debian.org/releases/bookworm/amd64/ch02s02.en.html , those instructions don't even work on the live images. Worse, they don't say that they don't work on the live images. So even if a user reads that entire guide, they'll only get instructions that don't even work. That's deceptive.

This is in reply to: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2024/04/msg00325.html

Original post: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2024/04/msg00324.html

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Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free Software  unfriendly Reid <reidbox@proinbox.com> - 2024-04-21 20:50 +0200
  Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free  Software unfriendly Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2024-04-21 22:00 +0200
    Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free Software  unfriendly Reid <reidbox@proinbox.com> - 2024-04-21 23:00 +0200
      Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free  Software unfriendly Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2024-04-22 08:30 +0200
      Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free  Software unfriendly "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2024-04-22 11:40 +0200
      Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free  Software unfriendly Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2024-04-22 16:40 +0200
        Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free Software unfriendly fxkl47BF@protonmail.com - 2024-04-22 16:50 +0200
          Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free  Software unfriendly Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2024-04-22 17:10 +0200
            Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free Software  unfriendly Reid <reidbox@proinbox.com> - 2024-04-22 23:00 +0200
              Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free  Software unfriendly Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2024-04-23 15:30 +0200
                Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free  Software unfriendly Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2024-04-23 15:30 +0200
        Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free  Software unfriendly Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2024-04-22 18:30 +0200
          Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free  Software unfriendly Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2024-04-22 18:50 +0200
  Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free Software unfriendly Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-04-21 23:40 +0200
    Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free Software unfriendly fxkl47BF@protonmail.com - 2024-04-22 01:00 +0200
      Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free Software  unfriendly Reid <reidbox@proinbox.com> - 2024-04-22 02:20 +0200
        Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free Software unfriendly Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-04-22 04:00 +0200
          Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free  Software unfriendly David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-04-22 05:30 +0200
            Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free Software unfriendly Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-04-22 23:10 +0200
              Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free  Software unfriendly "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-04-22 23:20 +0200
  Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free  Software unfriendly "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-04-22 22:00 +0200
    Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free Software  unfriendly Reid <reidbox@proinbox.com> - 2024-04-22 23:00 +0200

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