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Re: Un/Safe mixtures for Debian releases and suites [was: Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT]

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On 2021-07-11 at 03:31, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

> On Sb, 10 iul 21, 14:38:39, The Wanderer wrote:
> 
>> On 2021-07-10 at 14:18, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

>>> It depends :)
>>> 
>>> In my opinion I'd say the order from less to more dangerous
>>> would be:
>>> 
>>> 1. stable + select packages from stable-backports
>> 
>>> 2. oldstable + select packages from oldstable-backports-sloppy
>> 
>>> 3. testing + select packages from unstable
>> 
>>> 4. unstable + select packages from experimental
>> 
>> I'm a little surprised to see that you don't even mention the mix
>> which I've been running for the last decade-plus: stable + testing,
>> which works out to testing + select packages from stable (the ones
>> which are no longer available in testing).
>> 
>> Do you consider that to be so dangerous as to not even be worth
>> mentioning?
> 
> What I forgot to mention was that outside the common scenarios above
> you are pretty much on your own and you should have a good
> understanding of APT priorities and pinning (or be prepared to deal
> with problems).
> 
> The danger level also varies greatly on which is your "main"
> release.
> 
> While your testing + stable as needed mix is pretty simple[1] the 
> reverse mix stable + select packages from testing requires adequate 
> pinning and can quickly become problematic for anything but the
> simplest packages packages (no or very few dependencies) pulled from
> testing.

I can see how it could become an issue for someone who's trying to stick
mainly with stable, but that's never been my goal. As soon as you
dist-upgrade against the combination of testing and stable, you're
primarily on testing, with stable present only as an "in case of
removal" backstop.

> You should be using -backports instead or backport packages yourself
> if necessary[2].

I hope this is general/generic "you", and not directed at me
specifically. I first read this as chiding me against running this mix,
and that came across as mildly offensive.

> [1] No pinning required, unless you want to have *very* good control
>  over what you install from stable. A similar reasonably safe and
> easy setup is unstable + testing as needed, which is probably a good
> idea anyway, even if not well documented.

I used to track testing + unstable, which worked out to unstable +
select packages from testing.

That's the setup which blew up under my feet into an inconsistent,
unrepairable Debian installation, as I've mentioned elsewhere in this
thread.

However, I do not blame that on the fact of running a combination of
suites. I blame it on the fact of tracking unstable at all.

I absolutely do not recommend tracking sid on a production system, ever.
Installing specific packages from sid, carefully and only as needed, is
one thing; dist-upgrade against sid is something I very strongly
recommend against.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

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Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-07-09 23:50 +0200
  Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT "tv.debian@googlemail.com" <tv.debian@googlemail.com> - 2021-07-10 13:50 +0200
    Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT Brian Thompson <brian@hashvault.io> - 2021-07-10 14:00 +0200
      Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT "tv.debian@googlemail.com" <tv.debian@googlemail.com> - 2021-07-10 15:00 +0200
        Re: Didn't mean to derail (Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT) Brian Thompson <brian@hashvault.io> - 2021-07-10 15:20 +0200
          Re: Didn't mean to derail (Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT) "tv.debian@googlemail.com" <tv.debian@googlemail.com> - 2021-07-10 15:30 +0200
          Re: Didn't mean to derail (Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT) Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2021-07-10 17:00 +0200
            Re: Didn't mean to derail (Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT) Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 17:20 +0200
      Un/Safe mixtures for Debian releases and suites [was: Re: Vulkan  with Radeon RX 5700 XT] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 20:20 +0200
        Re: Un/Safe mixtures for Debian releases and suites [was: Re: Vulkan  with Radeon RX 5700 XT] The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-07-10 20:40 +0200
          Re: Un/Safe mixtures for Debian releases and suites [was: Re: Vulkan  with Radeon RX 5700 XT] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-10 20:50 +0200
          Re: Un/Safe mixtures for Debian releases and suites [was: Re: Vulkan  with Radeon RX 5700 XT] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 09:40 +0200
            Re: Un/Safe mixtures for Debian releases and suites [was: Re: Vulkan  with Radeon RX 5700 XT] The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-07-11 13:00 +0200
              Re: Un/Safe mixtures for Debian releases and suites [was: Re: Vulkan  with Radeon RX 5700 XT] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-07-12 09:50 +0200
        Re: Un/Safe mixtures for Debian releases and suites [was: Re:  Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT] Brian Thompson <brian@hashvault.io> - 2021-07-10 20:50 +0200
          Re: Un/Safe mixtures for Debian releases and suites [was: Re: Vulkan  with Radeon RX 5700 XT] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-07-10 21:00 +0200
          Re: Un/Safe mixtures for Debian releases and suites [was: Re: Vulkan  with Radeon RX 5700 XT] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-07-10 21:00 +0200
    Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-07-10 17:50 +0200
      Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT "idiotein30@gmail.com" <idiotein30@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 23:40 +0200
        Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-07-11 01:10 +0200
          Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-07-11 01:20 +0200
            Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT "tv.debian@googlemail.com" <tv.debian@googlemail.com> - 2021-07-11 12:40 +0200
        Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-07-11 19:30 +0200
          Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-07-11 20:30 +0200
            Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-07-12 10:00 +0200
              Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-07-12 12:10 +0200
                Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-07-12 14:30 +0200
            Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT "tv.debian@googlemail.com" <tv.debian@googlemail.com> - 2021-07-12 11:40 +0200
              Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-07-12 12:20 +0200
  Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 17:20 +0200
    Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-07-10 18:00 +0200
      Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 10:50 +0200
        Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-07-11 12:50 +0200
  Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT Geoff <unit735@bigpond.com> - 2021-07-11 04:00 +0200
    Re: Vulkan with Radeon RX 5700 XT The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-07-11 05:50 +0200

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