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Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems]

From Joe <joe@jretrading.com>
Newsgroups linux.debian.user
Subject Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems]
Date 2021-03-04 10:50 +0100
Message-ID <BOSMh-4zZ-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References (1 earlier) <BOBBM-25k-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <BOHea-5Jt-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <BOHHc-5VT-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <BOLhM-8mE-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <BORQd-3YF-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
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On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 09:43:57 +0100
<tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 03, 2021 at 05:42:36PM -0800, David Christensen wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > So, you designed, built, and programmed your "single other machine"
> > using machines that you designed, built [...]  
> 
> This is disingenuous.
> 
> The whole game is about trust. I trust gcc more than I trust MSVC.

Undoubtedly. But there is also no doubt that gcc and every other
serious compiler in the West has been compromised. Why would they *not*
be?



> The one aspect missing is, though, the "social" aspect: the software
> endeavour has become so devilishly complex that the idea of One
> Person (TM) checking everything down to some hypothetical "Trust
> Roots" is... theoretical, to state it politely. You gotta delegate
> some trust (well, most of it, actually).

Indeed. The new heartbeat/data return function in OpenSSL, itself the
core of much Open Source security, was suggested by the programmer
himself, and the resulting code was audited by *one* other person before
approval and distribution. What could possibly go wrong?

> 
> And oh, do you a favour and dare a step forward from the 1984s.
> Read David A. Wheeler's work [1] and put yourself in the 2010s :-)
> 
> Back to the topic: I do trust my ISP significantly less than I do
> OpenWRT. Therefore there is something between their provided router
> and my home network.

Of course. Any externally-supplied network device is inherently
untrusted. It is unwise to give any IoT device access to your network,
it is fail-safe to assume that every such device reports back as much
as possible to some Chinese company. But most people do unwise things
frequently, as most of us are unwise in many areas. We just happen to
know a bit about networking.

-- 
Joe

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Thread

Installation problems Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-03-02 21:10 +0100
  Re: Installation problems Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-03-02 21:40 +0100
    Re: Installation problems Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-03-02 22:20 +0100
      Re: Installation problems <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-02 22:30 +0100
        Re: Installation problems Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-03-03 00:10 +0100
    Re: Installation problems Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-03-02 22:50 +0100
      Re: Installation problems "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-03-02 23:20 +0100
        Re: Installation problems Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-03-03 02:40 +0100
          Re: Installation problems Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-03-03 02:50 +0100
      Re: Installation problems Keith Bainbridge <ke1thozgroups@gmx.com> - 2021-03-03 00:00 +0100
        Re: Installation problems Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-03-03 10:30 +0100
          Re: Installation problems David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-03 15:40 +0100
            Re: Installation problems Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-03-03 16:40 +0100
            Re: Installation problems Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-03-03 16:40 +0100
              Re: Installation problems David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-03 22:40 +0100
                Re: Installation problems Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-03-03 23:00 +0100
                Re: Installation problems Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-03-04 13:00 +0100
                Re: Installation problems Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2021-03-04 13:30 +0100
                Re: Installation problems Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-03-04 14:00 +0100
                Re: Installation problems Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-03-04 17:30 +0100
    Re: Installation problems Keith Bainbridge <ke1thozgroups@gmx.com> - 2021-03-02 23:50 +0100
      Re: Installation problems David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-03-03 03:50 +0100
        Re: Installation problems Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-03-03 10:50 +0100
          Re: Installation problems Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-03-03 11:20 +0100
    Re: Installation problems Keith Bainbridge <ke1thozgroups@gmx.com> - 2021-03-03 00:00 +0100
  PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-03-03 16:30 +0100
    Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-03 22:30 +0100
      Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-03-03 23:00 +0100
        Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-04 02:50 +0100
          Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-03-04 03:50 +0100
            Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-04 04:20 +0100
              Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-03-04 05:10 +0100
                Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-04 10:00 +0100
          Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-04 09:50 +0100
            Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation  problems] Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-03-04 10:50 +0100
              Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-04 14:20 +0100
                Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation  problems] Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-03-04 15:30 +0100
                Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems] tomas@tuxteam.de - 2021-03-04 16:20 +0100
                Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation  problems] Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-03-04 17:20 +0100
                Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems] tomas@tuxteam.de - 2021-03-04 19:10 +0100
                Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation  problems] Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-03-04 19:30 +0100
                Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems] Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-03-04 23:20 +0100
                Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-04 23:40 +0100
                Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation  problems] Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-03-04 23:50 +0100
                Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation  problems] Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-03-04 15:30 +0100
              Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation  problems] Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-03-04 14:20 +0100
                Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation  problems] Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-03-04 16:10 +0100
                Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation  problems] Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-03-04 17:20 +0100
                OT: Bathroom scales (was: Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems]) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-03-04 17:40 +0100
            Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems] David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-04 23:30 +0100
              [OFFTOPIC] Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems] Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-03-05 04:00 +0100
                Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of  Installation problems] David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-05 06:30 +0100
                Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of  Installation problems] David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-05 06:40 +0100
                Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems] Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-03-05 07:40 +0100
                Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of  Installation problems] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-03-05 09:20 +0100
                Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems] Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-03-05 15:10 +0100
    Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-03-04 13:30 +0100
      Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-03-04 18:50 +0100
      Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-04 23:50 +0100
        Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-03-05 13:20 +0100
          Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-05 21:30 +0100
            Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-03-05 22:20 +0100
              Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-03-05 22:50 +0100
                Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-03-05 23:30 +0100
                Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2021-03-06 00:40 +0100
                Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-03-07 01:40 +0100
    Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-03-06 02:50 +0100
    Status update {Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems} Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-03-08 13:10 +0100
      Re: Status update {Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems} "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-03-08 13:30 +0100
      Re: Status update {Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems} songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-03-08 17:30 +0100
        Re: Status update {Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems} Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-03-08 20:20 +0100
          Re: Status update {Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems} songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-03-09 02:10 +0100
        Re: Status update {Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems} Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-03-09 13:40 +0100
          Re: Status update {Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems} Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2021-03-09 14:00 +0100
            Re: Status update {Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems} Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-03-09 14:20 +0100
          Re: Status update {Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems} Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-09 14:10 +0100
            Re: Status update {Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems} Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-03-09 14:20 +0100
            Re: Status update {Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems} Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-03-09 21:40 +0100
              Re: Status update {Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems} Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-10 10:50 +0100
                Re: Status update {Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems} Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-03-10 11:30 +0100
                Re: Status update {Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems} Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-10 14:40 +0100
                Re: Status update {Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems} Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-03-10 15:50 +0100
                Re: Status update {Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems} Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-10 21:50 +0100
                Re: Status update {Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems} "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-03-11 00:20 +0100

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