Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution of documentation and CoC

From	Laura Arjona Reina <larjona@debian.org>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.project
Subject	Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution of documentation and CoC
Date	2017-04-06 14:40 +0200
Message-ID	<tteRH-5K-7@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	<tsZpD-7ek-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	linux.* mail to news gateway

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Hi

El 05/04/17 a las 22:09, shirish शिरीष escribió:
> Dear all,
>
> Please CC me as I'm not subscribed to the mailing list. Please excuse
> the non-brievity of the mail.
>
> Couple of weeks back,I put up a blog post
> https://flossexperiences.wordpress.com/2017/03/30/the-tale-of-the-dancing-girl-nsfw/
>

Sorry, but no "couple of weeks". Your post is from March 30th.

> Because the subject matter is mature and uncomfortable to many people
> my feed was turned off.
>
> In response I was given/shared three documents/links  -
>
> https://wiki.debian.org/PlanetDebian
>
> To be more precise it was
> https://wiki.debian.org/PlanetDebian?action=diff&rev2=49&rev1=48
>
> https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct
>
> and last but not the least -
>
> https://debconf.org/codeofconduct.shtml

Sorry, but no. I (with my anti-harassment team hat on and CC'ing 
antiharassment@ and planet@) provided an explanation to you of the 
action that the Planet Team took, and in my very first sentences I 
mentioned it's NSFW as you were already noting in your post. I added the 
links to that, as reference.

>
> And somehow the debconf code of conduct became the over-riding factor.

This is *your* opinion. I think I clarified it enough in the mails that 
we exchanged.

The official policy of Debian is the Debian Code of Conduct:

https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct

which is approved by the Debian Project in General Resolution, and it's 
linked in the Debian website homepage.

>
>>From the discussions it emerged or was shared (in private) that the
> documents need to be evolved

No. I said:
"We may need to make evolve our different documents about conduct (that 
were born in different times) towards a global set of guidelines. This 
needs work and discussions and time."

Note the "we *may* need", and "this needs work and discussions and time".

  but there doesn't seem to be any
> discussion about it in the public space and that I find frustrating
> (or maybe I'm not looking at the right place/s and if so please
> guide.)
>
> I do find this part to be problematic -
>
> "Try not to annoy people. While there is absolutely no requirement
> that posts need to be about Debian, if there are a subset of posts
> that are annoying a large number of people and generating many
> complaints, you may be asked to consider providing a feed without the
> posts in question. If you stay away from advertising content (or
> content that might be confused as such) and from excessively personal
> information, you should be fine."
>
> Now while I have hinted that the material should be child or
> family-friendly it still seems far from perfect.
>

Again, no. We noted that your post was NSFW. We said that as a "rule of 
thumb", if your content is ok for under-12, it's probably ok for posting 
in planet.

> For any person it is very difficult to know what would or would not
> annoy people. For instance the blog post I'm writing atm is about
> 'Fatalism' the idea or thought that some/few/many people have that
> life is pre-ordained in full or in parts .
>
> While my feed is still blocked, the specific blog post might or might
> not annoy people.
> If we are to talk only 'safe' topics then that would
> serve as a good guide. Even if we are able to come with a list of
> topics which are considered harmful or detrimental to the project even
> that probably would be service to the project.
>

Or dis-service, I'm not sure. E.g., a recent related post that appeared 
in Planet:
https://grep.be/blog/en/retorts/Codes_of_Conduct/

And please note the *e.g.*. You may find different discussions out there 
about the topic, with different opinions.

> Similarly, perhaps  the Debian Code of Conduct could do with some
> child/family-friendly addition therein.
>
> I have no idea whether debian-project is the right place to start this
> discussion or some other mailing list/bug-report or some other way.
>

The Debian Code of Conduct was approved as a General Resolution. You can 
find more discussion about it here:

https://www.debian.org/vote/2014/vote_002

I guess that further changes to the Debian Code of Conduct may need to 
be approved in General Resolution as well. This needs time, discussions 
and work, as I noted before.

Personally I'm quite energy-drained in the last weeks (and couldn't find 
time to recharge my batteries yet) because of personal reasons unrelated 
to Debian (and some Debian work, I have to admit), and, with my 
anti-harassment team hat on, would prefer not to open this discussion 
right now, since I'm struggling even just for keeping myself up to date 
with inbox (I couldn't find time to read this whole thread in the middle 
of my day work).

> I am no DD or DM so guess this is the only way I can raise the issue
> and get some sort of equivalence in all three documents so they
> speak/tell the same thing.

No, this was not the only way.

Personal note: I need to rest, for my personal physical and mental 
health and for feeling strong to help others too. I'm not burned out 
right now, but I don't want to arrive to that situation.

So I'll take some days (weeks?) off, and just after that, I'll try to 
read all the mails in this thread as soon as possible, and maybe then 
participate (again) in this conversation.

Thanks for your understanding.

I'm available in my personal mail and in IRC but please ping me only if 
you consider it's important *and urgent* what I can say or do. I'll try 
to keep up with the inbox of antiharassment@debian.org as until now, and 
I thank everybody that is working to create a more welcoming environment 
in Debian.

Cheers
-- 
Laura Arjona Reina
https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona

Thread

Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution of  documentation and CoC shirish शिरीष <shirishag75@gmail.com> - 2017-04-05 22:10 +0200
  Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution  of documentation and CoC shirish शिरीष <shirishag75@gmail.com> - 2017-04-06 00:40 +0200
  Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution of documentation and CoC Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2017-04-06 04:20 +0200
    Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution  of documentation and CoC Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi> - 2017-04-06 13:30 +0200
    Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution of documentation and CoC Joerg Jaspert <joerg@debian.org> - 2017-04-06 17:50 +0200
  Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution of documentation and CoC Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2017-04-06 07:00 +0200
    Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution  of documentation and CoC Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2017-04-06 13:30 +0200
    Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution  of documentation and CoC alberto fuentes <pajaro@gmail.com> - 2017-04-06 13:40 +0200
      Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution  of documentation and CoC Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi> - 2017-04-06 13:50 +0200
        Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution  of documentation and CoC alberto fuentes <pajaro@gmail.com> - 2017-04-06 14:00 +0200
          Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution  of documentation and CoC Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-04-06 15:00 +0200
      Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution  of documentation and CoC Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> - 2017-04-06 20:30 +0200
        Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution  of documentation and CoC shirish शिरीष <shirishag75@gmail.com> - 2017-04-07 00:10 +0200
          Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution of documentation and CoC Joerg Jaspert <joerg@debian.org> - 2017-04-07 09:30 +0200
            Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution  of documentation and CoC shirish शिरीष <shirishag75@gmail.com> - 2017-04-07 11:40 +0200
              Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution  of documentation and CoC Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2017-04-08 03:00 +0200
                Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution  of documentation and CoC shirish शिरीष <shirishag75@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 06:30 +0200
                Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution  of documentation and CoC shirish शिरीष <shirishag75@gmail.com> - 2017-04-09 08:00 +0200
                Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution  of documentation and CoC Laura Arjona Reina <larjona@debian.org> - 2017-04-27 19:50 +0200
  Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution  of documentation and CoC Laura Arjona Reina <larjona@debian.org> - 2017-04-06 14:40 +0200
    Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution  of documentation and CoC shirish शिरीष <shirishag75@gmail.com> - 2017-04-06 16:50 +0200
      Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution of documentation and CoC Joerg Jaspert <joerg@debian.org> - 2017-04-06 18:00 +0200
  Re: Inappropriate content on planet.debian.org and need of evolution of  documentation and CoC Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2017-04-06 20:00 +0200

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