Re: Jan 2022 DPL/DAM/CT sprint report

From	Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.project
Subject	Re: Jan 2022 DPL/DAM/CT sprint report
Date	2022-02-20 22:00 +0100
Message-ID	<DT1tf-3buw-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	<DSZ85-3aaA-11@gated-at.bofh.it> <DT0Qx-3bhu-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
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Cc-ing you, but if you prefer not being replied directly for lists on
which you're subscribed, please do tell.

Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@lease-up.com> wrote on 20/02/2022 at 20:50:24+0100:

> Hi,
>
> On Sun, Feb 20, 2022 at 10:23 AM Steve McIntyre <93sam@debian.org> wrote:
>>
>> We should **not** be using the CoC as a hammer, a tool to punish
>> people. It's a set of guidelines, setting basic expectations about
>> interactions one is going to have with people in Debian. People make
>> mistakes - we're only human.
>
> As a recent recipient of a DAM warning—for an isolated incident in
> which I described someone as a "freak" to a third party while that
> person was present—I found Steve's email comforting.
>
> With regard to disciplinary proceedings, however, Debian has a long
> way to go in implementing basic precepts of justice. For example, it
> would be good to hold hearings in which the accused can make a
> statement before any action is taken.

IMHO, yeah, it would be good, and it's the sort of procedure the appeal
made by DAM represents when someone gets removed. But for warnings, it'd
become quite too expensive to hold any sort of trial, especially when
the grounds for the warning are public and warrant for a warning
independently of what could have caused them.

> Those rights go back to the Magna Carta in 1215 and predate any modern
> form of elected government. Instead, they limited the arbitrary and
> capricious nature of unelected officials, namely the Kings of England.
> As someone who has felt the stick (or, as Steve wrote, the "hammer") I
> plead with DPL, DAM, CT to implement such basic protections without
> further delay.
>
> Also, I do not know which avenues of recourse were open to me at the
> time—and did not challenge the warning in any event—but it was unfair
> for some folks to suggest a GR in response. The burden should be the
> other way around, i.e the membership should be forced to affirm a
> disciplinary DAM action if the accused does not mind the publicity.
> Upon failure, the accused should walk.

I'm not sure to understand the meaning of the two last sentences, could
you please elaborate on these?

Cheers,
-- 
PEB

Thread

Jan 2022 DPL/DAM/CT sprint report Steve McIntyre <93sam@debian.org> - 2022-02-20 19:30 +0100
  Re: Jan 2022 DPL/DAM/CT sprint report Steve McIntyre <93sam@debian.org> - 2022-02-20 19:50 +0100
  Re: Jan 2022 DPL/DAM/CT sprint report Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@lease-up.com> - 2022-02-20 21:20 +0100
    Re: Jan 2022 DPL/DAM/CT sprint report Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-02-20 22:00 +0100
      Re: Jan 2022 DPL/DAM/CT sprint report Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@lease-up.com> - 2022-02-20 22:40 +0100
        Re: Jan 2022 DPL/DAM/CT sprint report Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-02-21 00:10 +0100
    Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@lease-up.com> - 2022-02-20 23:50 +0100
      Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-02-21 00:10 +0100
      Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Sam Hartman <hartmans@suchdamage.org> - 2022-02-21 00:30 +0100
    Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2022-02-20 23:50 +0100
      Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2022-02-21 04:20 +0100
        Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2022-02-21 05:00 +0100
        Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2022-02-21 06:20 +0100
          Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2022-02-21 06:40 +0100
            Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2022-02-21 07:10 +0100
              Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2022-02-21 07:50 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-02-21 09:50 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Marc Haber <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de> - 2022-02-21 11:10 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2022-02-21 19:00 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@lease-up.com> - 2022-02-21 16:40 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2022-02-21 17:30 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@lease-up.com> - 2022-02-21 18:00 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@lease-up.com> - 2022-02-21 18:50 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2022-02-21 19:10 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@lease-up.com> - 2022-02-21 19:20 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-02-22 00:20 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-02-22 05:40 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2022-02-21 19:30 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2022-02-21 18:50 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2022-02-21 18:10 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2022-02-21 18:20 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2022-02-21 18:50 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2022-02-21 19:20 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Marc Haber <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de> - 2022-02-21 20:00 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2022-02-21 22:20 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2022-02-21 22:20 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@lease-up.com> - 2022-02-21 19:00 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2022-02-21 19:20 +0100
          Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Jonathan Carter <jcc@debian.org> - 2022-02-21 13:20 +0100
            Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2022-02-21 13:50 +0100
              Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Jonathan Carter <jcc@debian.org> - 2022-02-21 14:50 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2022-02-21 15:50 +0100
                Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Jonathan Carter <jcc@debian.org> - 2022-02-21 17:10 +0100
          Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2022-02-23 10:10 +0100
            Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2022-02-23 12:20 +0100
              Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2022-02-23 13:50 +0100
      Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2022-02-21 06:10 +0100
        Re: Questions around Justice and Our Current CoC procedures Eldon Koyle <ekoyle@gmail.com> - 2022-02-21 21:50 +0100
  Re: Jan 2022 DPL/DAM/CT sprint report Jonathan Carter <jcc@debian.org> - 2022-02-21 19:10 +0100

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