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Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch?

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  Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 09:00 +0200
    Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 10:00 +0200
      Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? "W. Martin Borgert" <debacle@debian.org> - 2018-04-24 10:20 +0200
        Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 12:30 +0200
    Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? "W. Martin Borgert" <debacle@debian.org> - 2018-04-24 10:00 +0200
    Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2018-04-24 10:10 +0200
      Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 12:30 +0200
        Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2018-04-24 12:50 +0200
          Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 15:30 +0200
            Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Brian May <bam@debian.org> - 2018-04-25 02:50 +0200
              Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 05:20 +0200
    Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Ludovic Gasc <gmludo@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 16:50 +0200
      Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 17:10 +0200
        Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2018-04-24 17:30 +0200
          Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 19:10 +0200
            Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2018-04-24 19:10 +0200
              Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 19:20 +0200
                Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2018-04-24 19:30 +0200
                  Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 05:10 +0200
                    Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2018-04-25 08:00 +0200
        Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2018-04-24 18:00 +0200
          Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 18:50 +0200
            Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2018-04-24 20:00 +0200
              Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 05:10 +0200
                Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2018-04-25 16:20 +0200
                  Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 19:20 +0200
    Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Matthew Woodcraft <matthew@woodcraft.me.uk> - 2018-04-24 22:20 +0200
      Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Ludovic Gasc <gmludo@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 23:00 +0200
        Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Matthew Woodcraft <matthew@woodcraft.me.uk> - 2018-04-24 23:30 +0200
      Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 05:20 +0200

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#10454

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On 2018-04-24 22:07:03 +0700 (+0700), Nguyễn Hồng Quân wrote:
[...]
> I don't need to "not disturb" system.
> If have to use conda, pyenv, I would rather build Python3.6 from source
> tarball, not to bring more overhead (conda body, pyenv body), and
> "Python3.6 from source" still not disturb my system, because it is
> installed to "/usr/local".
> 
> But I don't want any method that requires to build Python from source
> (tarball, pythonz, conda or alike), because I really need *pre-built
> binaries*.
[...]

Unless I'm missing something, there's no substantial difference
between building a package of Python3.6 and copying it to the
system, or performing a `make altinstall` and copying the resulting
files (via rsync, tar and scp, whatever) to the target system. If
you're okay with the idea of building packages remotely, then why
not build from source remotely?
-- 
Jeremy Stanley

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#10455

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On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 10:19 PM, Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> wrote:

> On 2018-04-24 22:07:03 +0700 (+0700), Nguyễn Hồng Quân wrote:
> [...]
> > I don't need to "not disturb" system.
> > If have to use conda, pyenv, I would rather build Python3.6 from source
> > tarball, not to bring more overhead (conda body, pyenv body), and
> > "Python3.6 from source" still not disturb my system, because it is
> > installed to "/usr/local".
> >
> > But I don't want any method that requires to build Python from source
> > (tarball, pythonz, conda or alike), because I really need *pre-built
> > binaries*.
> [...]
>
> Unless I'm missing something, there's no substantial difference
> between building a package of Python3.6 and copying it to the
> system, or performing a `make altinstall` and copying the resulting
> files (via rsync, tar and scp, whatever) to the target system. If
> you're okay with the idea of building packages remotely, then why
> not build from source remotely?
>

​Then why Debian project invent *.deb file, not just pack binary as tar
file and let user to untar it?​
​I favor building deb file, rather than copying "make altinstall" result,
because of the same reason.​


-- 
Quân

Nguyễn Hồng Quân
☎ 093 9030 338
Facebook: ng.hong.quan
🌏 quan.hoabinh.vn  agriconnect.vn

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#10460

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On 2018-04-24 23:42:30 +0700 (+0700), Nguyễn Hồng Quân wrote:
[...]
> Then why Debian project invent *.deb file, not just pack binary as
> tar file and let user to untar it? I favor building deb file,
> rather than copying "make altinstall" result, because of the same
> reason.

I completely understand the reason for using packages, but Debian is
a volunteer project which does not exist solely to solve your
problems so you can either do something you already know how to do
(build Python 3.6 from source) and move on, or learn to make the
packages you want (including fixing any backporting issues you find
when doing so). Asking others to tell you how to do that is not the
sort of self-directed research expected of participants in a
volunteer project, it's at best begging and at worst disrespectful
of those who have invested the time to learn the things you're not
willing.

https://backports.debian.org/Contribute/

-- 
Jeremy Stanley

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#10467

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On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 12:58 AM, Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> wrote:

> On 2018-04-24 23:42:30 +0700 (+0700), Nguyễn Hồng Quân wrote:
> [...]
> I completely understand the reason for using packages, but Debian is
> a volunteer project which does not exist solely to solve your
> problems so you can either do something you already know how to do
> (build Python 3.6 from source) and move on, or learn to make the
> packages you want (including fixing any backporting issues you find
> when doing so). Asking others to tell you how to do that is not the
> sort of self-directed research expected of participants in a
> volunteer project, it's at best begging and at worst disrespectful
> of those who have invested the time to learn the things you're not
> willing.
>
> https://backports.debian.org/Contribute/
>

​Sorry if you feel disrespectful. But don't you think that this issue is
not mine-only, it may be other users as well?
​I spent much time to research on it, so that I can tell what difference
between 3.6.1 and 3.6.4 packaging.​

My voice here may let the packager think again why they make package
scripts so different between minor versions of Python. Don't you think that
it is good?

-- 
Quân

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#10471

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On 2018-04-25 10:06:47 +0700 (+0700), Nguyễn Hồng Quân wrote:
[...]
> I spent much time to research on it, so that I can tell what
> difference between 3.6.1 and 3.6.4 packaging.
[...]

http://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs/main/p/python3.6/python3.6_3.6.5-3_changelog

https://manpages.debian.org/debdiff

http://snapshot.debian.org/package/python3.6/

[also, please don't Cc me, I do already read the mailing list]
-- 
Jeremy Stanley

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#10472

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Thank you, Andrey and Jeremy.

I didn't know these sites. I will try again.

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 9:09 PM, Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> wrote:

> On 2018-04-25 10:06:47 +0700 (+0700), Nguyễn Hồng Quân wrote:
> [...]
> > I spent much time to research on it, so that I can tell what
> > difference between 3.6.1 and 3.6.4 packaging.
> [...]
>
> http://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs/main/p/
> python3.6/python3.6_3.6.5-3_changelog
>
> https://manpages.debian.org/debdiff
>
> http://snapshot.debian.org/package/python3.6/
>



-- 
Quân

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#10461

Nguyễn Hồng Quân wrote:
> I'm using Debian 9 on an ARM board (BeagleBone), for our IoT project.
> We write an application which needs Python 3.6. But we are struggling with
> packaging Python 3.6 as deb packages for Debian 9. We found the dsc file
> for Debian buster. But there is difference in dependency hierarchy between
> Stretch and Buster, so the found script produces *.deb files which are not
> installable (due to missing dependencies).

You didn't say what dependency problem you're seeing. Is it python3.6
depending on python3-distutils?

If it is, you might try building the 3.6.5-3 source package from sid
rather than the 3.6.5~rc1-1 package from buster, as that dependency has
been removed there.

That should give you a working Python 3.6, but without distutils which
has recently been moved to the python3-stdlib-extensions package. If you
need distutils you might try backporting that too.

-M-

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#10462

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2018-04-24 22:16 GMT+02:00 Matthew Woodcraft <matthew@woodcraft.me.uk>:

> Nguyễn Hồng Quân wrote:
>
>> I'm using Debian 9 on an ARM board (BeagleBone), for our IoT project.
>> We write an application which needs Python 3.6. But we are struggling with
>> packaging Python 3.6 as deb packages for Debian 9. We found the dsc file
>> for Debian buster. But there is difference in dependency hierarchy between
>> Stretch and Buster, so the found script produces *.deb files which are not
>> installable (due to missing dependencies).
>>
>
> You didn't say what dependency problem you're seeing. Is it python3.6
> depending on python3-distutils?
>
> If it is, you might try building the 3.6.5-3 source package from sid
> rather than the 3.6.5~rc1-1 package from buster, as that dependency has
> been removed there.
>
> That should give you a working Python 3.6, but without distutils which
> has recently been moved to the python3-stdlib-extensions package. If you
> need distutils you might try backporting that too.
>
>
Upgrade the python system from 3.5 to 3.6 might breaks some python system
libraries, no ?

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#10463

Ludovic Gasc wrote:
> 2018-04-24 22:16 GMT+02:00 Matthew Woodcraft <matthew@woodcraft.me.uk>:

>> You didn't say what dependency problem you're seeing. Is it python3.6
>> depending on python3-distutils?
>>
>> If it is, you might try building the 3.6.5-3 source package from sid
>> rather than the 3.6.5~rc1-1 package from buster, as that dependency has
>> been removed there.
>>
>> That should give you a working Python 3.6, but without distutils which
>> has recently been moved to the python3-stdlib-extensions package. If you
>> need distutils you might try backporting that too.

> Upgrade the python system from 3.5 to 3.6 might breaks some python system
> libraries, no ?

So long as it's just the binaries from the python3.6 source package, they
should install in parallel and cause no trouble (it would be like installing
the python3.7 packages in Buster today, which would go in parallel to 3.6).

I think rebuilding python3-stdlib-extensions would be OK too if done with
enough care; it would need persuading to build packages including libraries
for both 3.5 and 3.6. But yes, that's more risky as it means replacing Stretch
packages rather than just adding new ones.

-M-

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#10468

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On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 3:16 AM, Matthew Woodcraft <matthew@woodcraft.me.uk>
wrote:

> Nguyễn Hồng Quân wrote:
>
> You didn't say what dependency problem you're seeing. Is it python3.6
> depending on python3-distutils?
>

​Yes, and when I tried to backport python3-disutils, it depends on python
3.7 !!!​

​https://packages.debian.org/source/buster/python3-stdlib-extensions​

-- 
Quân

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