Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > linux.debian.maint.python > #9742

Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage

Path csiph.com!goblin3!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!news.unit0.net!news.panservice.it!bofh.it!news.nic.it!robomod
From Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org>
Newsgroups linux.debian.maint.python
Subject Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage
Date Tue, 08 Aug 2017 07:30:03 +0200
Message-ID <uc5fB-3gQ-31@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References <uaBtf-1rM-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <uaLCi-867-15@gated-at.bofh.it> <ubYe6-6ih-19@gated-at.bofh.it> <ubZ0u-6St-15@gated-at.bofh.it> <ubZMR-7qT-11@gated-at.bofh.it> <ubZWy-7wz-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <uc1F0-zY-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <uc282-11e-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <uc2ro-1eJ-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <uc3dL-1UD-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
X-Original-To debian-python@lists.debian.org
X-Mailbox-Line From debian-python-request@lists.debian.org Tue Aug 8 05:20:59 2017
Old-Return-Path <vorlon@debian.org>
X-Amavis-Spam-Status No, score=-11.8 tagged_above=-10000 required=5.3 tests=[BAYES_00=-2, FOURLA=0.1, LDO_WHITELIST=-5, MURPHY_SCAM1=0.1, PGPSIGNATURE=-5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
X-Policyd-Weight using cached result; rate: -5
Mail-Followup-To Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org>, debian-python@lists.debian.org
MIME-Version 1.0
Content-Type multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="v55ng52gmzwjob6m"
Content-Disposition inline
User-Agent NeoMutt/20170113 (1.7.2)
X-Mailing-List <debian-python@lists.debian.org> archive/latest/15123
List-ID <debian-python.lists.debian.org>
List-URL <https://lists.debian.org/debian-python/>
List-Archive https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/20170808052035.vx2j76cr2wugln3i@virgil.dodds.net
Approved robomod@news.nic.it
Lines 65
Organization linux.* mail to news gateway
Sender robomod@news.nic.it
X-Original-Date Mon, 7 Aug 2017 22:20:35 -0700
X-Original-Message-ID <20170808052035.vx2j76cr2wugln3i@virgil.dodds.net>
X-Original-References <9614BFBC-E260-48A6-B722-DDD41E715A20@kitterman.com> <92E6FF73-391C-45FE-A213-6AAED284629D@debian.org> <1502142757.2351.35.camel@ghic.org> <690EAE7E-8005-4723-891E-C2E30C3B35AD@debian.org> <85shh3lzp1.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <1502149701.2351.60.camel@ghic.org> <85inhyn8zk.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <alpine.DEB.2.11.1708072135500.1801@titan.ldpreload.com> <854ltin6q1.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <1502161900.2351.65.camel@ghic.org>
Xref csiph.com linux.debian.maint.python:9742

Show key headers only | View raw

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] - view raw

On Mon, Aug 07, 2017 at 08:11:40PM -0700, Diane Trout wrote:

> > What I am opposing is the suggestion to install, in the near to
> > medium
> > term, a command of exactly the same name that has subtly similar but
> > incompatible behaviour, when that behaviour *already* has a command –
> > ‘python3’ – that is widely used by those who need it.

> my problem with that plan is all of the printed documentation saying to
> learn python, type "python".

> At the very least there needs to a usr/bin/python that prints
> instructions about what you should run.

FWIW I don't share Ben's concern about this being a "backwards incompatible"
change (who is relying on the precise contents of the banner when running
'python' interactively?!).

But I am concerned about possible implementation strategies here.  exec() is
a very expensive syscall, and python is a frequently used interpreter.  If
this were implemented as a wrapper that checked isatty(), printed a banner,
and then re-execed the real python, that could have a measurable performance
impact on some applications.  There is a reason /usr/bin/python,
/usr/bin/gcc, etc. are always symlinks to the real interpreter on Debian,
not wrapper scripts - other distributions have tried to do this as a wrapper
script and the result wasn't pretty.

Avoiding the performance hit would require that any changes to the banner
be made in the python source itself.

-- 
Steve Langasek                   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer                   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer                                    http://www.debian.org/
slangasek@ubuntu.com                                     vorlon@debian.org

Back to linux.debian.maint.python | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Matthias Klose <doko@debian.org> - 2017-08-04 00:00 +0200
  Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage barry@debian.org - 2017-08-04 03:10 +0200
    Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2017-08-04 05:30 +0200
      Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2017-08-04 08:10 +0200
      Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage barry@debian.org - 2017-08-04 16:20 +0200
        Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Ole Streicher <olebole@debian.org> - 2017-08-04 17:10 +0200
          Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2017-08-04 17:50 +0200
        Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2017-08-04 23:10 +0200
          Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2017-08-05 03:40 +0200
            Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2017-08-05 04:10 +0200
          Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Geoffrey Thomas <geofft@ldpreload.com> - 2017-08-08 00:50 +0200
        Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Diane Trout <diane@ghic.org> - 2017-08-08 00:00 +0200
          Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2017-08-08 00:50 +0200
            Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2017-08-08 01:40 +0200
              Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Diane Trout <diane@ghic.org> - 2017-08-08 01:50 +0200
                Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2017-08-08 03:40 +0200
                Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2017-08-08 04:00 +0200
                Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2017-08-08 04:20 +0200
                Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Diane Trout <diane@ghic.org> - 2017-08-08 05:10 +0200
                Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2017-08-08 05:30 +0200
                Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Diane Trout <diane@ghic.org> - 2017-08-08 05:40 +0200
                Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2017-08-08 06:00 +0200
                Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2017-08-08 07:00 +0200
                Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Geoffrey Thomas <geofft@ldpreload.com> - 2017-08-08 04:10 +0200
                Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2017-08-08 04:30 +0200
                Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Diane Trout <diane@ghic.org> - 2017-08-08 05:20 +0200
                Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2017-08-08 05:40 +0200
                Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2017-08-08 07:30 +0200
                Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2017-08-08 08:20 +0200
                Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Geoffrey Thomas <geofft@ldpreload.com> - 2017-08-10 17:40 +0200
                Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Ole Streicher <olebole@debian.org> - 2017-08-08 21:20 +0200
                Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2017-08-08 21:30 +0200
    Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Matthias Klose <doko@debian.org> - 2017-08-04 13:00 +0200
      Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2017-08-04 14:40 +0200
  Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2017-08-07 00:00 +0200
  Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2017-08-07 01:00 +0200
  Re: MBF for deprecating Python2 usage Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-08-07 01:10 +0200

csiph-web