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Re: packaging DiscoDOS - a cli tool for vinyl DJs

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This is very frustrating to read.

On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 6:04 AM Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> wrote:
>
> On 5/16/20 3:36 AM, Paul Wise wrote:
> > Would it be fair to say that your main objection is that Ubuntu has
> > much higher popularity than Debian
>
> This is what I regret, indeed. It's been like that for many years, and
> the trend isn't reversing. We should ask ourselves why. From my point of
> view, I see it as a problem of marketing more than OS content or
> technical excellence.

No, I think they do things better. Their installer is much better, and it's
a *lot* easier to switch. They had signed UEFI images before us,
and they enable things like firmware for wifi cards. This allows
Ubuntu to be easier for non-technical users to install computers
without understanding main vs contrib vs nonfree, how to disable
SecureBoot or what a firmware package is. We have lessons
to learn about usability and we've not learned them, and remained
stubborn about it.

They're able to do a lot of this by focusing on just a few arches, and
not every arch under the sun.

To some degree, we (as Debian) are designed to enable projects
like Ubuntu more than ever become Ubuntu.

> > and so the Ubuntu policy to work
> > upstream where possible leads people to come to Debian without
> > necessarily caring about the Debian community or users but more about
> > Ubuntu users?
>
> We are lucky this happens.

No, it's explicit messaging by Ubuntu.

I was an Ubuntu member before I was a Debian Developer.

I'd like to think I've been a stable and long-time member of the community.
I am only here because of Ubuntu. If someone tries to upload a
NEW package, they're always told to go to Debian.

>
> > Personally, I think over the years Ubuntu's Debian involvement has
> > been a net positive for Debian
>
> Indeed.
>
> > both in terms of packaging and other
> > technical changes and in terms of attracting new contributors, often
> > Ubuntu migrants end up contributing to Debian more than Ubuntu. I
> > think the same goes for derivatives in general.
>
> That's truth. I am very thankful for Canonical to contribute things like
> Grub, Python, MySQL and many other things directly in Debian. It's very
> nice that some full time employees can take care of stuff like that.
> It's also nice that some components are explicitly worked on to be the
> same in both distros. I also like the fact that they push contributors
> to work on upstream Debian.
>
> Never the less, I've seen multiple occurrences where some people vaguely
> knew what Ubuntu was, but never heard of Debian. Saw others saying wrong
> things, like Ubuntu was updating faster (which is wrong, as packages are
> updated in Sid first). And many other things of that type. Isn't it
> legitimate that I'm asking myself why? Shouldn't the Debian project try
> to question its image?

Let's fix our usability issues and maybe more "power users" will install
Debian.

>
> Cheers,
>
> Thomas Goirand (zigo)
>


-- 
All programmers are playwrights, and all computers are lousy actors.

#define sizeof(x) rand()
:wq

-- 
:wq

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Thread

packaging DiscoDOS - a cli tool for vinyl DJs jojo <jojo@peek-a-boo.at> - 2020-05-15 18:10 +0200
  Re: packaging DiscoDOS - a cli tool for vinyl DJs Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2020-05-15 19:20 +0200
    Disparaging people's motivation to contribute to Debian was: Re: packaging DiscoDOS - a cli tool for vinyl DJs Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2020-05-15 22:50 +0200
      Re: Disparaging people's motivation to contribute to Debian Geert Stappers <stappers@stappers.nl> - 2020-05-16 11:40 +0200
  Re: packaging DiscoDOS - a cli tool for vinyl DJs Martin <debacle@debian.org> - 2020-05-15 20:00 +0200
  Re: packaging DiscoDOS - a cli tool for vinyl DJs Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2020-05-16 03:40 +0200
    Re: packaging DiscoDOS - a cli tool for vinyl DJs Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2020-05-16 05:10 +0200
      Re: packaging DiscoDOS - a cli tool for vinyl DJs Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2020-05-18 01:50 +0200
        Re: packaging DiscoDOS - a cli tool for vinyl DJs Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2020-05-18 02:20 +0200
    Re: packaging DiscoDOS - a cli tool for vinyl DJs Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2020-05-16 05:10 +0200
    Re: packaging DiscoDOS - a cli tool for vinyl DJs Paul Tagliamonte <paultag@debian.org> - 2020-05-16 14:30 +0200
      Re: packaging DiscoDOS - a cli tool for vinyl DJs Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2020-05-16 17:50 +0200
        Re: packaging DiscoDOS - a cli tool for vinyl DJs Nicolas Chauvat <nicolas.chauvat@logilab.fr> - 2020-05-18 09:20 +0200
          Re: packaging DiscoDOS - a cli tool for vinyl DJs Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2020-05-18 09:30 +0200
  Re: packaging DiscoDOS - a cli tool for vinyl DJs jojo <jojo@peek-a-boo.at> - 2020-05-18 11:50 +0200
    Re: packaging DiscoDOS - a cli tool for vinyl DJs Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2020-05-18 11:50 +0200

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