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"Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?"

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  "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Chris Lamb <lamby@debian.org> - 2017-03-31 22:50 +0200
    Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Niels Thykier <niels@thykier.net> - 2017-04-01 09:20 +0200
    Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Russell Stuart <russell-debian@stuart.id.au> - 2017-04-03 02:30 +0200
      Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2017-04-03 07:00 +0200
        Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Scott Leggett <scott@sl.id.au> - 2017-04-04 14:10 +0200
        Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Timo Aaltonen <tjaalton@debian.org> - 2017-04-04 15:40 +0200
      Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> - 2017-04-03 07:40 +0200
        Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Russell Stuart <russell-debian@stuart.id.au> - 2017-04-03 08:10 +0200
      Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2017-04-04 01:00 +0200
        Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-04-04 02:20 +0200
          Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2017-04-04 22:50 +0200
            Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-04-05 05:20 +0200
              Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Russell Stuart <russell-debian@stuart.id.au> - 2017-04-05 07:00 +0200
                Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Florian Lohoff <f@zz.de> - 2017-04-05 08:10 +0200
                  Laptop reboot and suspend Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2017-04-05 10:30 +0200
                  Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2017-04-05 13:40 +0200
                    Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Nikolaus Rath <Nikolaus@rath.org> - 2017-04-06 00:20 +0200
                      Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> - 2017-04-06 21:10 +0200
                        Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Nikolaus Rath <Nikolaus@rath.org> - 2017-04-07 01:10 +0200
                          Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2017-04-07 02:00 +0200
                            Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2017-04-07 03:00 +0200
                          Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Joerg Jaspert <joerg@debian.org> - 2017-04-07 09:20 +0200
                          Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Florian Lohoff <f@zz.de> - 2017-04-07 21:10 +0200
                            Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Pavlo Solntsev <pavlo.solntsev@gmail.com> - 2017-04-07 22:10 +0200
                          Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> - 2017-04-08 09:50 +0200
                            Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Nikolaus Rath <Nikolaus@rath.org> - 2017-04-09 02:40 +0200
                          Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Ritesh Raj Sarraf <rrs@debian.org> - 2017-04-08 12:20 +0200
                        Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Vincent Danjean <vdanjean.ml@free.fr> - 2017-04-07 13:30 +0200
                    Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Russell Stuart <russell-debian@stuart.id.au> - 2017-04-06 01:30 +0200
                      Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Russell Stuart <russell-debian@stuart.id.au> - 2017-04-07 04:30 +0200
                      Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-04-13 07:30 +0200
                Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2017-04-05 08:40 +0200
                  Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" md@Linux.IT (Marco d'Itri) - 2017-04-05 09:00 +0200
                    Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" gregor herrmann <gregoa@debian.org> - 2017-04-05 09:20 +0200
                      Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" md@Linux.IT (Marco d'Itri) - 2017-04-05 13:40 +0200
                Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> - 2017-04-05 08:40 +0200
                Attention Russel Stuart Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2017-04-05 14:00 +0200
                  Re: Attention Russell Stuart Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2017-04-05 15:30 +0200
    Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-04-07 03:00 +0200

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#78963 — "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?"

Hi -devel,

There's a very active conversation happening on Hacker News right
now entitled «What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?»:

  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14002821

I haven't read every comment yet, but are there any feature requests
that seem particularly relevant to us?

(As a meta-comment, I was quite struck by the number of requests that
should "obviously" be requested upstream instead. I wouldn't want to
label this as "wrong" but I think this might speak to the different
perception we have towards the upstream → distro → user relationship.)


Regards,

-- 
      ,''`.
     : :'  :     Chris Lamb
     `. `'`      lamby@debian.org / chris-lamb.co.uk
       `-

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#78969

Chris Lamb:
> Hi -devel,
> 
> There's a very active conversation happening on Hacker News right
> now entitled «What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?»:
> 
>   https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14002821
> 
> I haven't read every comment yet, but are there any feature requests
> that seem particularly relevant to us?
> 
> (As a meta-comment, I was quite struck by the number of requests that
> should "obviously" be requested upstream instead. I wouldn't want to
> label this as "wrong" but I think this might speak to the different
> perception we have towards the upstream → distro → user relationship.)
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 


I noticed one request for binary diffs (I assume a la debdelta) with an
explicit mention of it being upstreamed to Debian[1].

~Niels


[1]

"""
- FLAVOR: Ubuntu Any (preferred this to be in upstream Debian)
- HEADLINE: binary diff updates for apt-get.
- DESCRIPTION:

I have seen Fedora updates as binary diffs. It is very small, uses
less bandwidth and space, and gets installed faster.

This request isn't really for Ubuntu 17.10 though (I don't know if
there is enough time for this). And I don't wish (actually I hate)
this to be an Ubuntu specific feature. I wish this to be an upstream
(Debian) feature.

Thanks
"""

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#78986

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On Fri, 2017-03-31 at 21:48 +0100, Chris Lamb wrote:
> There's a very active conversation happening on Hacker News right
> now entitled «What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?»:
> 
>   https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14002821
> 
> I haven't read every comment yet, but are there any feature requests
> that seem particularly relevant to us?
> 
> (As a meta-comment, I was quite struck by the number of requests that
> should "obviously" be requested upstream instead. I wouldn't want to
> label this as "wrong" but I think this might speak to the different
> perception we have towards the upstream → distro → user
> relationship.)

I was fascinated to see the two top ones were also my two top ones. 
But both are upstream issues.

The first is better HDPI handling.  This will require Wayland as X11
simply can't handle connecting to monitors with wildly different DPI
settings. But even just handling HDPI is problematic - fixing it with
my 300 dpi screen took multiple manual hacks including in Gimp's case
installing an icon pack not available in Debian.

The second was better gesture recognition.  I'd put onscreen keyboard
into that basket too.  This in particular effects 2in1 laptops - those
a standard OS (ie, Windows / Linux) but can be both touch only or touch
+ keyboard.  At the low end things appear to be in the process of
wiping out tablets, which is good for us.  But because the onscreen
keyboard doesn't work and gestures aren't supported uniformly well by
all apps these things aren't usable currently, and they have to be
usable out of the box with a standard install - just like Windows
manages to do.

Note these two cover the largest growth groups - the very low end, and
laptops with HPDI monitors.

The third one that got my attention is security updates that can be
trusted to work on a standard desktop install.  Where we take the
approach that creating our own security patches is just too hard, this
means stable must just follow upstream (like Firefox ESR),
automagically.  They don't do this reliably now for the default
install, even with unattended-grades, on a machine that's
intermittently on. This one is definitely in our court, and it's an
absolute must IMO, but is been already been discussed to death here.

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#78987

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 ❦  3 avril 2017 10:10 +1000, Russell Stuart <russell-debian@stuart.id.au> :

> The first is better HDPI handling.  This will require Wayland as X11
> simply can't handle connecting to monitors with wildly different DPI
> settings.

The current limitation is in the toolkits. X11 is quite able to
advertise different DPI per output through XSETTINGS. GTK is able to
grab Xft/DPI and use it for scaling (even for non-font stuff, though it
will prefer to use Gdk/UnscaledDPI if available). GTK will watch the
value and update the application if it changes. Applications can also
subscribe to notifications for this value.

While XSETTINGS can handle several screens, GTK only tracks one settings
window and doesn't handle applications switching from one screen to
another.

Also, Ubuntu is now defaulting to Mir and the story doesn't seem better
here since people are still requesting a better HiDPI support. I suppose
that if support was implemented for Mir, it should be possible to make
it work with X11 as well.
-- 
Alas, how love can trifle with itself!
		-- William Shakespeare, "The Two Gentlemen of Verona"

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#78998

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On 2017-04-03.06:52, Vincent Bernat wrote:
> While XSETTINGS can handle several screens, GTK only tracks one settings
> window and doesn't handle applications switching from one screen to
> another.

According to this interesting post[0] in response to the original Hacker
News thread, per-screen scaling in GTK is solved under Wayland.

[0]
https://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2017/04/03/hackernews-feedback-on-what-they-want-from-their-desktop-we-got-it/

-- 
Regards,
Scott.

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#78999

On 03.04.2017 07:52, Vincent Bernat wrote:
>  ❦  3 avril 2017 10:10 +1000, Russell Stuart <russell-debian@stuart.id.au> :
> 
>> The first is better HDPI handling.  This will require Wayland as X11
>> simply can't handle connecting to monitors with wildly different DPI
>> settings.
> 
> The current limitation is in the toolkits. X11 is quite able to
> advertise different DPI per output through XSETTINGS. GTK is able to
> grab Xft/DPI and use it for scaling (even for non-font stuff, though it
> will prefer to use Gdk/UnscaledDPI if available). GTK will watch the
> value and update the application if it changes. Applications can also
> subscribe to notifications for this value.
> 
> While XSETTINGS can handle several screens, GTK only tracks one settings
> window and doesn't handle applications switching from one screen to
> another.
> 
> Also, Ubuntu is now defaulting to Mir and the story doesn't seem better
> here since people are still requesting a better HiDPI support. I suppose
> that if support was implemented for Mir, it should be possible to make
> it work with X11 as well.

Mir is not used by default on Ubuntu desktop, not yet anyway.

Unity7 does support HiDPI scaling and defaults to scale factor 2.0 on
this 3200x1800 laptop, while I personally prefer to change it to 1.5..

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#78988

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On 2017-04-03 10:10, Russell Stuart wrote:

> The first is better HDPI handling.  This will require Wayland ...

Did I miss something? I thought Ubuntu was doing their own thing and not
using Wayland. 

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mir/Spec 

  

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#78989

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On Mon, 2017-04-03 at 15:35 +1000, Brian May wrote:
> On 2017-04-03 10:10, Russell Stuart wrote:
> > The first is better HDPI handling.  This will require Wayland ...
> >  
>  
> Did I miss something? I thought Ubuntu was doing their own thing and
> not using Wayland.
>  
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mir/Spec

Yep.  But I was referring to Debian.

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#78994

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On Mon, Apr 03, 2017 at 10:10:00AM +1000, Russell Stuart wrote:
> The third one that got my attention is security updates that can be
> trusted to work on a standard desktop install.  Where we take the
> approach that creating our own security patches is just too hard, this
> means stable must just follow upstream (like Firefox ESR),
> automagically.  They don't do this reliably now for the default
> install, even with unattended-grades, on a machine that's
> intermittently on. This one is definitely in our court, and it's an
> absolute must IMO, but is been already been discussed to death here.

Fixing #744753 would ensure systems got the updates.  The only issue
then is restarting the applications.

-- 
Sean Whitton

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#78995

On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 6:58 AM, Sean Whitton wrote:

> Fixing #744753 would ensure systems got the updates.
> The only issue then is restarting the applications.

needrestart and needrestart-session handles that. There are also many
other implementations but needrestart seems to be the most complete
solution right now.

-- 
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

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#79003

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Hello Paul,

On Tue, Apr 04, 2017 at 08:10:44AM +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 6:58 AM, Sean Whitton wrote:
> 
> > Fixing #744753 would ensure systems got the updates.
> > The only issue then is restarting the applications.
> 
> needrestart and needrestart-session handles that. There are also many
> other implementations but needrestart seems to be the most complete
> solution right now.

Do you know if anyone is working on including this in the default
desktop install?  If it works well, it seems like an uncontroversial
inclusion that does not depend on the debate over unattended-upgrades.
I don't know which package would need to be changed, so I'm not sure
where to look for an existing wishlist bug.

-- 
Sean Whitton

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#79004

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 4:47 AM, Sean Whitton wrote:

> Do you know if anyone is working on including this in the default
> desktop install?  If it works well, it seems like an uncontroversial
> inclusion that does not depend on the debate over unattended-upgrades.
> I don't know which package would need to be changed, so I'm not sure
> where to look for an existing wishlist bug.

Not AFAIK. I would guess that needrestart would need to be promoted to
standard priority and needrestart-session would need to be added to
tasksel's task-desktop package, or to each of the task-*-desktop
packages; this adds wxWidgets to the default install though. The
latter would allow different desktops to add different
implementations, for example if someone wrote a GNOME Shell extension
to highlight windows of applications that need restarting.

One important downside of needrestart/needrestart-session/systemd is
that it can't automatically restart systemd user services and root
systemctl can't restart user services, even via su/sudo and
needrestart-session doesn't restart them AFAIK. I guess this should be
fixed by needrestart-session doing restarts (or stops for
RefuseManualStart=true) of user services when requested to start via
the dbus call, plus adding a restart/stop button for processes
corresponding to user services.

Another downside of needrestart is that a lot of stuff doesn't support
being restarted sanely, like dbus, display managers, networking stuff,
/etc/rc.local, etc. There is a blacklist for that but it doesn't yet
include rc.local (#852864):

https://sources.debian.net/src/needrestart/2.11-2/ex/needrestart.conf/#L79

-- 
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

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#79005

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On Wed, 2017-04-05 at 11:18 +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> Not AFAIK. I would guess that needrestart would need to be promoted
> to standard priority and needrestart-session would need to be added
> to tasksel's task-desktop package, or to each of the task-*-desktop
> packages; this adds wxWidgets to the default install though. The
> latter would allow different desktops to add different
> implementations, for example if someone wrote a GNOME Shell extension
> to highlight windows of applications that need restarting.

The original thread HN thread that trigged this was more about personal
machines, ie laptops and tablets.  That is were I'm coming from anyway.
 As it happens, Steve McIntyre was looking at the server side and
specifically excluded laptop's from his auto install security patch
deliberations, so nominally there isn't an overlap.

As far as I can tell, for laptop's rebooting is a non-issue mainly
because suspend is not reliable enough to use safely [0] - so they are
rebooted every day.  Ergo just fixing bug #744753 would be the cure if
it is indeed the problem - but it doesn't sound like it to me as this
isn't a suspend issue.

The itch I'm trying scratch is I've convinced some co-workers to ditch
Windows for Linux.  All our infrastructure and development is done
under Linux, so it makes sense.  For the most part it works very well,
apart from the 3 issues I raised earlier.  Fortunately they don't use
the tablet mode and they don't have HDPI displays, so they aren't
issues for them.  But the not installing security updates thing means I
have to remember do it for them.


[0] By "not safe" I mean suspend can destroy hardware.  Not directly of
    course.  The first issue is modern laptops have so much DRAM it
    can drain the battery overnight, which makes suspend pretty useless
    if you are expecting it to reliably save your work.  The solution
    is put the laptop into hibernate mode if it's been suspended too
    long.  This works mostly - but it has one disastrous failure mode.
    It must wake the laptop up to put it into hibernate mode but
    sometimes it doesn't wake successfully. The result is the
    motherboard is powered up, the laptop is in the bag with no 
    ventilation and the thing cooks.

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#79006

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On Wed, Apr 05, 2017 at 02:56:04PM +1000, Russell Stuart wrote:
> As far as I can tell, for laptop's rebooting is a non-issue mainly
> because suspend is not reliable enough to use safely [0] - so they are
> rebooted every day.  Ergo just fixing bug #744753 would be the cure if
> it is indeed the problem - but it doesn't sound like it to me as this
> isn't a suspend issue.

I have a very different perception - It is so rare that i reboot
my notebook which travels with me all day that everytime i do
i have troubles remembering the 30+ character Luks passphrase.
I suspend/resume multiple times a day and thats my current uptime:

 07:49:26 up 22 days, 20:04,  4 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.05, 0.17

And thats a pretty standard Lenovo T420... I dont care about rebooting ...

And i havent had the issue that the switch of suspend to hibernate fails.

Flo
-- 
Florian Lohoff                                                 f@zz.de
             UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away

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#79011 — Laptop reboot and suspend

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Florian Lohoff [2017-04-05 07:55:29+02] wrote:

> I have a very different perception - It is so rare that i reboot my
> notebook which travels with me all day that everytime i do i have
> troubles remembering the 30+ character Luks passphrase. I
> suspend/resume multiple times a day and thats my current uptime:
>
>  07:49:26 up 22 days, 20:04,  4 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.05, 0.17

That also means that you have had your encrypted LUKS partitions open
for almost 23 days. My laptop's (Apple Macbook Air) suspend-resume works
well with Debian 8 but I shut it down when traveling through risky
places because I want to have my data encrypted (can't use gpg
separately for all valuable data).

I suggest posting follow-ups to debian-user list (Cc'd) and dropping
-devel.

-- 
/// Teemu Likonen   - .-..   <https://keybase.io/tlikonen> //
// PGP: 4E10 55DC 84E9 DFF6 13D7 8557 719D 69D3 2453 9450 ///

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#79015

Florian Lohoff writes ("Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?""):
> On Wed, Apr 05, 2017 at 02:56:04PM +1000, Russell Stuart wrote:
> > As far as I can tell, for laptop's rebooting is a non-issue mainly
> > because suspend is not reliable enough to use safely [0] - so they are
> > rebooted every day.  Ergo just fixing bug #744753 would be the cure if
> > it is indeed the problem - but it doesn't sound like it to me as this
> > isn't a suspend issue.
> 
> I have a very different perception

Me too.  I guess it depends very much on whether one can afford to buy
a good laptop which works well with Linux.

Ian.

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#79018

On Apr 05 2017, Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Florian Lohoff writes ("Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?""):
>> On Wed, Apr 05, 2017 at 02:56:04PM +1000, Russell Stuart wrote:
>> > As far as I can tell, for laptop's rebooting is a non-issue mainly
>> > because suspend is not reliable enough to use safely [0] - so they are
>> > rebooted every day.  Ergo just fixing bug #744753 would be the cure if
>> > it is indeed the problem - but it doesn't sound like it to me as this
>> > isn't a suspend issue.
>> 
>> I have a very different perception
>
> Me too.  I guess it depends very much on whether one can afford to buy
> a good laptop which works well with Linux.

I think there's a pre-requisite that's much harder for a lot of people:
finding out what laptop works well with Linux. This is the stage where I
have repeatedly failed - the differences in model numbers are just too
tiny and subtle, and typically things that work well are no longer sold
commercially.


Best,
-Nikolaus

-- 
GPG Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

             »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

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#79032

Nikolaus Rath dijo [Wed, Apr 05, 2017 at 03:18:57PM -0700]:
> >> I have a very different perception
> >
> > Me too.  I guess it depends very much on whether one can afford to buy
> > a good laptop which works well with Linux.
> 
> I think there's a pre-requisite that's much harder for a lot of people:
> finding out what laptop works well with Linux. This is the stage where I
> have repeatedly failed - the differences in model numbers are just too
> tiny and subtle, and typically things that work well are no longer sold
> commercially.

FWIW it's been a long time since I had any problems in this regard,
and I'm surprised it's still an issue among knowledgeable people by
2017!

My last two laptops (bought in 2009 and 2013, IIRC) have been of the
Acer Aspire One range. Both, bought at a supermarket, for around
US$300. Both worked completely flawlessly since day one; I admit to
having b0rked several things (power management included) due to my
configurations, but I'm now used to it "just working" - I last
clean-reinstalled this computer maybe two years ago, and I just push
the lid down, it always suspends properly.

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#79036

On Apr 06 2017, Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> wrote:
> Nikolaus Rath dijo [Wed, Apr 05, 2017 at 03:18:57PM -0700]:
>> >> I have a very different perception
>> >
>> > Me too.  I guess it depends very much on whether one can afford to buy
>> > a good laptop which works well with Linux.
>> 
>> I think there's a pre-requisite that's much harder for a lot of people:
>> finding out what laptop works well with Linux. This is the stage where I
>> have repeatedly failed - the differences in model numbers are just too
>> tiny and subtle, and typically things that work well are no longer sold
>> commercially.
>
> FWIW it's been a long time since I had any problems in this regard,
> and I'm surprised it's still an issue among knowledgeable people by
> 2017!

Maybe I'm just exceedingly unlucky, but I have yet to find a laptop
where all of the following works:

- Suspend
- Hibernate
- Airplane-mode Hotkey (especially hard apparently)
- Volume Hotkeys
- Brightness Hotkeys
- Suspend/hibernate hotkeys
- Hot-plug of external monitor

>From memory, some of the models I tried and found lacking: Asus EeePC,
Lenovo Carbon X1, HP Elitebook from ~3 years ago, HP Elitebook from just
now.

Suggestions for the next purchase are welcome :-).

(but probably better off-list)

Best,
-Nikolaus

-- 
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             »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

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#79037

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Am 07.04.2017 um 01:07 schrieb Nikolaus Rath:
> Maybe I'm just exceedingly unlucky, but I have yet to find a laptop
> where all of the following works:
> 
> - Suspend
> - Hibernate
> - Airplane-mode Hotkey (especially hard apparently)
> - Volume Hotkeys
> - Brightness Hotkeys
> - Suspend/hibernate hotkeys
> - Hot-plug of external monitor
> 
>>From memory, some of the models I tried and found lacking: Asus EeePC,
> Lenovo Carbon X1, HP Elitebook from ~3 years ago, HP Elitebook from just
> now.
> 
> Suggestions for the next purchase are welcome :-).

All of the above works flawlessly on my Thinkpad X220 running Debian Sid
with GNOME.


-- 
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?

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