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Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default

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On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 11:08:38AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 04:33:42PM +0200, David Kalnischkies wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 09, 2021 at 08:53:21AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> > > The only thing I could see that would be a net gain would be to generalizes
> > > sources.list more. Instead of having a user select a specific protocol and
> > > path, allow the user to just select high-level objects. Make this a new
> > > pseudo-protocol for backward compatibility, and introduce something like
> > >   deb apt:// suite component[s]
> > > so the default could be something like
> > >   deb apt:// bullseye main
> > >   deb apt:// bullseye/updates main
> > > then the actual protocols, servers, and paths could be managed by various
> > > plugins and overridden by configuration directives in apt.conf.d. For
> > 
> > In this scheme the Debian bullseye main repo has the same 'URI' as the
> > Darts bullseye main repo. So, you would need to at least include an
> > additional unique identifier of the likes of Debian and Darts, but
> > who is to assign those URNs?
> > (Currently we are piggybacking on the domain name system for this)
> 
> I have no idea what darts is, so I don't have an answer. :)

"Darts" was just a play on "bullseye". It is not hard to imagine
a repository which has the same suite and component(s) but is not
Debian itself. As a pseudo-random [= its in an other topic here] real
example you can take Wine (https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/debian/).
So to what is "deb apt:// bullseye main" referring? Debian or Wine?

And to pre-empt the most common response: As an apt dev I can assure you
that we won't accept a solution involving "I am on Debian, so it means
Debian" as that is impossible to correctly guess programmatically (for
example on derivatives using a small overlay repo).


> > Also, but just as an aside, whatever clever system you think of apt
> > could be using, you still need a rather simple system for the likes of
> > tools which come before apt like the installers/bootstrappers as they
> > are not (all) using apt, especially not in the very early stages, and
> > a mapping between them.
> 
> I'm not sure why you think I need that? The goal of my musings is to

Because this thread started with the idea to switch the default of d-i
and co to another URI. If you target only apt then you still need
a solution for d-i and a way to convert whatever d-i had into what apt
gets in the end (of the installation).

The configuration option which only works with apt tools already
exists in the form of the mirror method…


> > > their thing, and a plugin like auto-apt-proxy can override defaults to do
> > > something more complicated, using more policy-friendly .d configurations
> > > rather than figuring out a way to rewrite some other package's configuration
> > > file.
> > 
> > JFTR: auto-apt-proxy has nothing to do with sources. It is true that
> > apt-cacher-ng (and perhaps others) have a mode of operation in which you
> > prefix the URI of your (in that case caching) proxy to the URI of the
> > actual repo, but that isn't how a proxy usually operates and/or is
> > configured.
> 
> I have no idea what you're saying here.

And I have no idea if you know what you are talking about.

auto-apt-proxy already uses an interface apt provides to configure the
proxy at runtime. It isn't in the business of modifying sources.list nor
has it any interest in that. So you using it as an example for a plugin
who could use your proposed scheme to modify the sources at runtime
makes no sense.


Best regards

David Kalnischkies

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Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Hideki Yamane <henrich@debian.org> - 2021-08-22 15:10 +0200
  Processed: Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org  by default "Debian Bug Tracking System" <owner@bugs.debian.org> - 2021-09-01 11:50 +0200
  Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2021-09-01 11:50 +0200
    Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2021-09-01 12:00 +0200
      Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2021-09-01 17:00 +0200
        Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Hideki Yamane <henrich@iijmio-mail.jp> - 2021-09-02 04:00 +0200
          Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2021-09-02 18:30 +0200
            Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2021-09-02 19:00 +0200
          Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2021-09-02 19:00 +0200
          Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2021-09-02 21:40 +0200
            Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2021-09-02 23:10 +0200
              Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2021-09-03 04:50 +0200
                Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default David Kalnischkies <david@kalnischkies.de> - 2021-09-05 12:40 +0200
              Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2021-09-03 13:20 +0200
                Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2021-09-03 13:40 +0200
                Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Philipp Kern <pkern@debian.org> - 2021-09-03 13:40 +0200
            Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Hideki Yamane <henrich@iijmio-mail.jp> - 2021-09-04 22:20 +0200
              Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2021-09-09 20:10 +0200
                Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2021-09-10 02:00 +0200
                Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2021-09-10 17:10 +0200
          Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2021-09-08 13:20 +0200
            Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2021-09-08 13:40 +0200
              Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2021-09-08 14:00 +0200
                Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2021-09-08 14:10 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2021-09-08 15:50 +0200
                Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2021-09-08 16:00 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2021-09-09 01:30 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Timothy M Butterworth <timothy.m.butterworth@gmail.com> - 2021-09-09 01:40 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Eduard Bloch <edi@gmx.de> - 2021-09-10 11:30 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2021-09-10 12:10 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2021-09-10 14:00 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Tim Woodall <debiandevel@woodall.me.uk> - 2021-09-08 14:20 +0200
                Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2021-09-08 14:30 +0200
            Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2021-09-09 01:30 +0200
              Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2021-09-09 08:40 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2021-09-09 14:40 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2021-09-09 15:00 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2021-09-09 15:10 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2021-09-09 15:30 +0200
              Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2021-09-09 15:00 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default David Kalnischkies <david@kalnischkies.de> - 2021-09-10 16:40 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2021-09-10 17:10 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default David Kalnischkies <david@kalnischkies.de> - 2021-09-10 20:10 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2021-09-10 21:20 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2021-09-12 05:20 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2021-09-13 00:00 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default David Kalnischkies <david@kalnischkies.de> - 2021-09-13 15:10 +0200
              Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2021-09-10 09:40 +0200
                Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2021-09-10 10:20 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2021-09-10 14:10 +0200
                Bug#994409: task-laptop: please recommend automatic apt proxying Phil Morrell <debian@emorrp1.name> - 2021-09-15 19:20 +0200
                Re: task-laptop: please recommend automatic apt proxying Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2021-09-15 19:40 +0200
                Re: task-laptop: please recommend automatic apt proxying Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2021-09-15 19:40 +0200
  Bug#992692: next steps Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans@eds.org> - 2021-12-09 12:30 +0100
  Bug#992692: more steps towards this goal Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans@eds.org> - 2022-03-30 10:00 +0200
  Bug#992692: moar Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans@eds.org> - 2022-03-30 12:30 +0200
  Bug#992692: link Geert Stappers <stappers@stappers.nl> - 2022-03-30 12:50 +0200

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