Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default

From	Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.devel, linux.debian.bugs.dist
Subject	Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default
Date	2021-09-02 19:00 +0200
Message-ID	<CSYef-1qQ-11@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <CSvcd-83d-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <CSzIS-2p5-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <CSJId-hl-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <CSXrP-19m-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <CSXLc-1ge-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	linux.* mail to news gateway

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 2021-09-02 12:27:34 -0400 (-0400), Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
[...]
> In this context, it might make sense to describe using HTTPS as
> the transport for APT operations is providing "default
> confidentiality".

Which, as similarly discussed, it really doesn't do either (because
of deterministic blob sizes for publicly served files, current SNI
implementations leaking hostnames, general state of the CA and CDN
industries...), so suggesting that may also give users a false
impression. If they really do need confidentiality of their package
installation, they're probably better off doing updates over Tor or
a some VPN which does batching/interleaving of bulk transfers with
some cover traffic, or keeping a private local package mirror.

But to a great extent the degree of confidentiality they can expect
really depends on who they're trying to hide their traffic from. If
their concern is that a company headquartered in the USA might be
tracking the packages they're downloading from deb.debian.org, then
that's already a possibility even with HTTPS: the site is currently
fronted by the Fastly CDN service which terminates TLS encryption
for those HTTPS requests in order to be able to cache them globally.
Of course, without a CDN, mirror site operators can track what
packages you're downloading from them over HTTPS as well.

More generally, what I'm saying is don't try to paint this change as
actually implementing any significant amount of new security or
privacy for Debian users, that would be disingenuous. Just say the
default is switching to HTTPS because that's what users, by and
large, expect today.
-- 
Jeremy Stanley

Thread

Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Hideki Yamane <henrich@debian.org> - 2021-08-22 15:10 +0200
  Processed: Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org  by default "Debian Bug Tracking System" <owner@bugs.debian.org> - 2021-09-01 11:50 +0200
  Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2021-09-01 11:50 +0200
    Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2021-09-01 12:00 +0200
      Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2021-09-01 17:00 +0200
        Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Hideki Yamane <henrich@iijmio-mail.jp> - 2021-09-02 04:00 +0200
          Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2021-09-02 18:30 +0200
            Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2021-09-02 19:00 +0200
          Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2021-09-02 19:00 +0200
          Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2021-09-02 21:40 +0200
            Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2021-09-02 23:10 +0200
              Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2021-09-03 04:50 +0200
                Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default David Kalnischkies <david@kalnischkies.de> - 2021-09-05 12:40 +0200
              Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2021-09-03 13:20 +0200
                Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2021-09-03 13:40 +0200
                Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Philipp Kern <pkern@debian.org> - 2021-09-03 13:40 +0200
            Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Hideki Yamane <henrich@iijmio-mail.jp> - 2021-09-04 22:20 +0200
              Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2021-09-09 20:10 +0200
                Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2021-09-10 02:00 +0200
                Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2021-09-10 17:10 +0200
          Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2021-09-08 13:20 +0200
            Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2021-09-08 13:40 +0200
              Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2021-09-08 14:00 +0200
                Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2021-09-08 14:10 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2021-09-08 15:50 +0200
                Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2021-09-08 16:00 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2021-09-09 01:30 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Timothy M Butterworth <timothy.m.butterworth@gmail.com> - 2021-09-09 01:40 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Eduard Bloch <edi@gmx.de> - 2021-09-10 11:30 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2021-09-10 12:10 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2021-09-10 14:00 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Tim Woodall <debiandevel@woodall.me.uk> - 2021-09-08 14:20 +0200
                Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2021-09-08 14:30 +0200
            Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2021-09-09 01:30 +0200
              Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2021-09-09 08:40 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2021-09-09 14:40 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2021-09-09 15:00 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2021-09-09 15:10 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2021-09-09 15:30 +0200
              Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2021-09-09 15:00 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default David Kalnischkies <david@kalnischkies.de> - 2021-09-10 16:40 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2021-09-10 17:10 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default David Kalnischkies <david@kalnischkies.de> - 2021-09-10 20:10 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2021-09-10 21:20 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2021-09-12 05:20 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2021-09-13 00:00 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default David Kalnischkies <david@kalnischkies.de> - 2021-09-13 15:10 +0200
              Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2021-09-10 09:40 +0200
                Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by default Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2021-09-10 10:20 +0200
                Re: Bug#992692: general: Use https for {deb,security}.debian.org by  default Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2021-09-10 14:10 +0200
                Bug#994409: task-laptop: please recommend automatic apt proxying Phil Morrell <debian@emorrp1.name> - 2021-09-15 19:20 +0200
                Re: task-laptop: please recommend automatic apt proxying Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2021-09-15 19:40 +0200
                Re: task-laptop: please recommend automatic apt proxying Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2021-09-15 19:40 +0200
  Bug#992692: next steps Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans@eds.org> - 2021-12-09 12:30 +0100
  Bug#992692: more steps towards this goal Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans@eds.org> - 2022-03-30 10:00 +0200
  Bug#992692: moar Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans@eds.org> - 2022-03-30 12:30 +0200
  Bug#992692: link Geert Stappers <stappers@stappers.nl> - 2022-03-30 12:50 +0200

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