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Bug#1108542: openssh-server: Debian Trixie: bad dependancy with systemd*

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  Bug#1108542: openssh-server: Debian Trixie: bad dependancy with systemd* Jean-Marc LACROIX <jeanmarc.lacroix@free.fr> - 2025-06-30 22:50 +0200
    Bug#1108542: openssh-server: Debian Trixie: bad dependancy with systemd* Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> - 2025-06-30 23:00 +0200
      Bug#1108542: openssh-server: Debian Trixie: bad dependancy with systemd* Jean-Marc LACROIX <jeanmarc.lacroix@free.fr> - 2025-07-27 11:30 +0200

#1251497 — Bug#1108542: openssh-server: Debian Trixie: bad dependancy with systemd*

Package: openssh-server
Version: 1:10.0p1-5
Severity: important

Dear maintainers,

It seems that  on package openssh-server, there is  now one dependency
with systemd on Debian Trixie (release 13).

This feature is  not compatible with one  target running sysvinit-core
in place of systemd.

I have Debian  from release 7 to 13 (!)  without systemd with sysvinit
and of course with openssh-server package, all runs fine without any issue.

Please find my  configuration... (Target on armhf odroid  HC1 into one
LXC container)

ansible@vn-firewall-110:~$ cat /etc/debian_version
13.0

ansible@vn-firewall-110:~$ lsb_release -a
No LSB modules are available.
Distributor ID: Debian
Description:    Debian GNU/Linux 13 (trixie)
Release:        13
Codename:       trixie
ansible@vn-firewall-110:~$

ansible@vn-firewall-110:~$ LC_ALL=C apt policy  systemd

systemd:
   Installed: (none)
   Candidate: (none)
   Version table:
      257.6-1 -1
         500 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian trixie/main armhf Packages
      252.36-1~deb12u1 -1
          90 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian bookworm/main armhf Packages


ansible@vn-firewall-110:~$ LC_ALL=C dpkg -l |grep -v ii
Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| 
Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name                           Version 
Architecture Description
+++-==============================-===================================-============-================================================================================
ansible@vn-firewall-110:~$


ansible@vn-firewall-110:~$ LC_ALL=C dpkg -l |grep sysvinit
ii  sysvinit-core                  3.14-4 
armhf        System-V-like init
ii  sysvinit-utils                 3.14-4 
armhf        System-V-like utilities
ansible@vn-firewall-110:~$

When launching  following command into  one Ansible task  in automatic
mode,  so that  y am  sure that  my target  is never  running systemd,
(idempotent)  then  following action  is  done  and openssh-server  is
removed, therefore no more possible to connect to target (!)

ansible@vn-firewall-110:~$ LC_ALL=C sudo apt remove --purge systemd*
Note, selecting 'systemd-standalone-tmpfiles' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-oomd' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-container' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-repart' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-timesyncd' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-userdbd' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-tests' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-standalone-shutdown' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-sysusers' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-ukify' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-journal-remote' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-bootchart' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-netlogd' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-dev' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-tmpfiles' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-cryptsetup' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-boot-efi' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-boot-tools' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-homed' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-resolved' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-coredump' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-boot' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-zram-generator' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-standalone-sysusers' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-shim' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-sysv' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-cron' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-zram-generator:any' for glob 'systemd*'
Note, selecting 'systemd-standalone-tmpfiles' instead of 'systemd-tmpfiles'
Package 'systemd-shim' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd-resolved' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd-cron' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd-sysv' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd-container' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd-ukify' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd-cryptsetup' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd-coredump' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd-bootchart' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd-timesyncd' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd-boot-efi' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd-boot-tools' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd-repart' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd-zram-generator' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd-homed' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd-userdbd' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd-boot' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd-dev' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd-journal-remote' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd-oomd' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd-standalone-shutdown' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd-standalone-tmpfiles' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd-tests' is not installed, so not removed
Package 'systemd-netlogd' is not installed, so not removed
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer 
required:
   libwtmpdb0  ncurses-term
Use 'sudo apt autoremove' to remove them.

REMOVING:
   openssh-server*  systemd-standalone-sysusers*

Summary:
   Upgrading: 0, Installing: 0, Removing: 2, Not Upgrading: 0
   Freed space: 3131 kB

Continue? [Y/n]


Best regards
-- 
   -- Jean-Marc LACROIX  () --
     -- mailto : jeanmarc.lacroix@free.fr   --

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#1251498

On Mon, Jun 30, 2025 at 10:41:15PM +0200, Jean-Marc LACROIX wrote:
>It seems that  on package openssh-server, there is  now one dependency
>with systemd on Debian Trixie (release 13).
>
>This feature is  not compatible with one  target running sysvinit-core
>in place of systemd.
[...]
>REMOVING:
>  openssh-server*  systemd-standalone-sysusers*

But:

Package: systemd-standalone-sysusers
Description: standalone sysusers binary for use in non-systemd systems
  Standalone sysusers binary with minimal dependencies.
  This package conflicts with the main systemd package and is meant for use in
  non-systemd systems.

Is this actually a problem for any reason other than you having removed 
everything matching "systemd*"?  As indicated, this particular package 
should be fine even if you're running sysvinit.

An alternative, if you so wish, is to install the opensysusers package 
instead.  openssh-server's dependencies allow that (since it Provides: 
systemd-sysusers).

-- 
Colin Watson (he/him)                              [cjwatson@debian.org]

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#1254019

Le 30/06/2025 à 22:50, Colin Watson a écrit :
> On Mon, Jun 30, 2025 at 10:41:15PM +0200, Jean-Marc LACROIX wrote:
>> It seems that  on package openssh-server, there is  now one dependency
>> with systemd on Debian Trixie (release 13).
>>
>> This feature is  not compatible with one  target running sysvinit-core
>> in place of systemd.
> [...]
>> REMOVING:
>>  openssh-server*  systemd-standalone-sysusers*
> 
> But:
> 
> Package: systemd-standalone-sysusers
> Description: standalone sysusers binary for use in non-systemd systems
>   Standalone sysusers binary with minimal dependencies.
>   This package conflicts with the main systemd package and is meant for 
> use in
>   non-systemd systems.
> 
> Is this actually a problem for any reason other than you having removed 
> everything matching "systemd*"?  As indicated, this particular package 
> should be fine even if you're running sysvinit.
> 
> An alternative, if you so wish, is to install the opensysusers package 
> instead.  openssh-server's dependencies allow that (since it Provides: 
> systemd-sysusers).
> 

Hello Colin,

Thank you very much for your suggestion to never remove systemd*. I've 
added the exact list of dedicated "systemd" packages, making it easier 
to manage, to my Ansible YAML list.

It works perfectly.

For my own understanding, could you confirm that 
"systemd-standalone-sysusers" is a recent Debian package, built on 
Debian Bookworm , and not available on old Debian release. (< 9).


Therefore, i must make some trivial code to manage this feature on old 
Debian release ?

Thanks to close this bug at now.

Best regards
-- 
   -- Jean-Marc LACROIX  () --
     -- mailto : jeanmarc.lacroix@free.fr   --

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