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Ein Engländer begegnet einem alten deutschen Radiogramm in Argentinien

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  Ein Engländer begegnet einem alten deutschen Radiogramm in Argentinien Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> - 2015-06-06 22:18 +0100
    Re: Ein Engländer begegnet einem alten deutschen Radiogramm in Argentinien Wolfgang Martens <na3506b2013@t-online.de> - 2015-06-07 01:13 +0200
    Re: Ein Engländer begegnet einem alten deutschen Radiogramm in Argentinien Wolfgang Martens <na3506b2013@t-online.de> - 2015-06-07 01:41 +0200
    Re: Ein Engländer begegnet einem alten deutschen Radiogramm in Argentinien Wolfgang Martens <na3506b2013@t-online.de> - 2015-06-07 01:50 +0200
      Re: Ein Engländer begegnet einem alten deutschen Radiogramm in Argentinien Wolfgang Martens <na3506b2013@t-online.de> - 2015-06-08 00:06 +0200
        Re: Ein Engländer begegnet einem alten deutschen Radiogramm in Argentinien Nick Odell <gurzhfvp.jbexfubc@ntlworld.com.invalid> - 2015-06-10 01:00 +0100
    Re: Ein Engländer begegnet einem alten deutschen Radiogramm in Argentinien Heinz Schmitz <HeinzSchmitz@gmx.net> - 2015-06-07 14:46 +0200
      Re: Ein Engländer begegnet einem alten deutschen Radiogramm in Argentinien Nick Odell <gurzhfvp.jbexfubc@ntlworld.com.invalid> - 2015-06-10 01:01 +0100
        Re: Ein Engl�nder begegnet einem alten deutschen Radiogramm in Argentinien Reinhard Zwirner <reinhard.zwirner@t-online.de> - 2015-06-10 23:07 +0200
    Re: Ein Engl�nder begegnet einem alten deutschen Radiogramm in Argentinien Nick Odell <gurzhfvp.jbexfubc@ntlworld.com.invalid> - 2015-06-10 01:00 +0100
    Re: Ein Engl?nder begegnet einem alten deutschen Radiogramm in Argentinien Nick Odell <gurzhfvp.jbexfubc@ntlworld.com.invalid> - 2015-06-10 01:03 +0100

#186616 — Ein Engländer begegnet einem alten deutschen Radiogramm in Argentinien

I was about half way through my most recent stay in Buenos Aires when
my 98-year-old friend turned round and asked me if I would examine
his 1966 Grundig radiogram because it wasn't working any more. 

It really needs a few component changes and a fresh set of valves and
I could take them over with me and finish the job next time I visit.

Unfortunately I have no idea which model it is. If I can find a
model number for the tuner/amplifier, I can probably find a circuit
diagram and source the correct parts.

So: I'm wondering if anybody in this group might be able to help me?

Here are some pictures I took of the radiogram: 

The style of radiogram seems to be the Grundig Majestic
http://tinypic.com/r/2eqc1mq/8 but all the other photos I've seen of
the Majestic have shown a variety of different tuner/amp panels but
not the panel in this one!

This is the control panel of the tuner/amp in the radiogram in
Argentina: http://tinypic.com/r/dety8h/8 

The chassis: http://tinypic.com/r/2lx704j/8  I'd quite like to know
more about the daughter board too. I can't read all the valve numbers
(I dare not try removing them until I know I can get replacements!)
and even if I could read their numbers, there's no guarantee that
after fifty years these are the original valves or, if they are
replacements, that they are the correct ones. The ticket at the top of
this picture - http://tinypic.com/r/etz0jb/8 - appears in several
locations but I don't know if it is a Grundig serial number: according
to the owner, he was told at the time of purchase (1966) all the parts
were shipped over from Germany and then assembled in Argentina.

Any thoughts will be much appreciated - not least by the 98-year-old
owner!

Many thanks,

Nick

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#186623

> Unfortunately I have no idea which model it is. If I can find a
> model number for the tuner/amplifier, I can probably find a circuit
> diagram and source the correct parts.
>
> http://tinypic.com/r/2eqc1mq/8 but all the other photos I've seen of
> the Majestic have shown a variety of different tuner/amp panels but
> not the panel in this one!

All Majestic pictures look different to your model.
It looks like a special version of KS 490:
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/grundig_konzertschrank_ks490weks.html
but unfortunately I can not find a version with your tuner panel. 
Maybe www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_forum_folder.cfm?folder_id=1 can help.

regards Wolfgang Martens

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#186624

> Unfortunately I have no idea which model it is. If I can find a
> model number for the tuner/amplifier, I can probably find a circuit
> diagram and source the correct parts.
>
> http://tinypic.com/r/dety8h/8
> http://tinypic.com/r/2lx704j/8

Have a look here, it looks like your front and chassis pictures:
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/grundig_stereomeister_15h_1.html
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/grundig_stereomeister_35.html


regards Wolfgang Martens

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#186625

> Unfortunately I have no idea which model it is. If I can find a
> model number for the tuner/amplifier, I can probably find a circuit
> diagram and source the correct parts.
>
> http://tinypic.com/r/2lx704j/8

The Stereo Decoder looks like this one:
http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Roehren-Geschichtliches/Stereodekoder/Grundig/Dekoder_VI/VI.htm


regards Wolfgang Martens

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#186687

Am 07.06.2015 um 01:50 schrieb Wolfgang Martens:
>> Unfortunately I have no idea which model it is. If I can find a
>> model number for the tuner/amplifier, I can probably find a circuit
>> diagram and source the correct parts.
>>
>> http://tinypic.com/r/2lx704j/8

The Stereo Decoder looks like Grundig Dekoder VI.
Your chassis looks like Stereomeister 15H or 35, but due to
http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Roehren-Geschichtliches/Stereodekoder/Grundig/Dekoder_VI/VI.htm 

decoder VI was used in Stereomeister 35, Stereomeister 15H is not 
mentioned.
I can not find a manual for type 35, but both Stereomeister are 
supposed to use the same tubes.
Here the Stereomeister 15H circuit:

www.swedala.se/scheman/grundig/grundig_hf35.pdf

regards Wolfgang Martens

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#186753

On Mon, 08 Jun 2015 00:06:50 +0200, Wolfgang Martens
<na3506b2013@t-online.de> wrote:

>Am 07.06.2015 um 01:50 schrieb Wolfgang Martens:
>>> Unfortunately I have no idea which model it is. If I can find a
>>> model number for the tuner/amplifier, I can probably find a circuit
>>> diagram and source the correct parts.
>>>
>>> http://tinypic.com/r/2lx704j/8
>
>The Stereo Decoder looks like Grundig Dekoder VI.
>Your chassis looks like Stereomeister 15H or 35, but due to
>http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Roehren-Geschichtliches/Stereodekoder/Grundig/Dekoder_VI/VI.htm 
>
>decoder VI was used in Stereomeister 35, Stereomeister 15H is not 
>mentioned.
>I can not find a manual for type 35, but both Stereomeister are 
>supposed to use the same tubes.
>Here the Stereomeister 15H circuit:
>
>www.swedala.se/scheman/grundig/grundig_hf35.pdf
>
My apologies for not replying sooner. Thank you for this and your
other replies: yes, I think you have found it! All the visible parts
on the chassis seem to be in the right places. Thank you! And more
apologies for misdirecting you with the "Majestic" reference: I blame
a mis-labeled photograph found in Google images and my not seeking
corroboration!

I really appreciate your help.


Thanks again,

Nick

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#186655

Nick Odell wrote:

>It really needs a few component changes and a fresh set of valves and
>I could take them over with me and finish the job next time I visit.

You'd probably not need a complete set of tubes, but you'd be on 
the safe side when crossing the sea. First of all I would suspect the
left-most tube in
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2lx704j&s=8
This tube shows a white head, which may indicate a loss of vacuum.
It may be one of the hard to get and expensive ECLL80-ies, which I
never wanted to touch - they tried to squeeze too many systems into
one bulb and ended up with quite a lot of heat in a narrow space.

The control panel in 
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=dety8h&s=8
indicates it to be a younger tube radio, with tuning indicator of type
EM84 or EM87.
Notably is the set of the *eight* white tabs for choice of operation.

A wonderful compilation of Grundigs with pics and schematics is here
http://www.nvhr.nl/gfgf/schema.asp?Zoeken=fuzzy&Merk=grundig&Fabrik=&Model=&Pics=&Schema=&Soort=&Van=&Tot=&SorterenOp=&isSubmitted=yes

The outer appearance of your set
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2eqc1mq&s=8
does look similar to Grundigs KS490, but the chassis doesn't seem to
fit this type. 
I would rather guess it to be a "Konzertgerät 4097 StereoNussbaum"
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/grundig_konzertgeraet_4097_stereo_1.html
from the setting of the control knobs and tabs. The schematic is on
http://www.nvhr.nl/gfgf/schema.asp?Zoeken=fuzzy&Merk=grundig&Fabrik=&Model=&Pics=&Schema=&Soort=&Van=&Tot=&SorterenOp=&isSubmitted=yes
	"Grundig 4097Stereo"

But bear in mind please, that the uncertainty is a) "what did Grundig
do with the radio furniture" and b) "what did they market overseas".
And there is a whole lot of other possibilities of what can have
failed beside tubes.

Regards,
H.

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#186755

On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 14:46:02 +0200, Heinz Schmitz
<HeinzSchmitz@gmx.net> wrote:

>Nick Odell wrote:
>
>>It really needs a few component changes and a fresh set of valves and
>>I could take them over with me and finish the job next time I visit.
>
>You'd probably not need a complete set of tubes, but you'd be on 
>the safe side when crossing the sea. First of all I would suspect the
>left-most tube in
>http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2lx704j&s=8
>This tube shows a white head, which may indicate a loss of vacuum.
>It may be one of the hard to get and expensive ECLL80-ies, which I
>never wanted to touch - they tried to squeeze too many systems into
>one bulb and ended up with quite a lot of heat in a narrow space.
>
>The control panel in 
>http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=dety8h&s=8
>indicates it to be a younger tube radio, with tuning indicator of type
>EM84 or EM87.
>Notably is the set of the *eight* white tabs for choice of operation.
>
>A wonderful compilation of Grundigs with pics and schematics is here
>http://www.nvhr.nl/gfgf/schema.asp?Zoeken=fuzzy&Merk=grundig&Fabrik=&Model=&Pics=&Schema=&Soort=&Van=&Tot=&SorterenOp=&isSubmitted=yes
>
>The outer appearance of your set
>http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2eqc1mq&s=8
>does look similar to Grundigs KS490, but the chassis doesn't seem to
>fit this type. 
>I would rather guess it to be a "Konzertgerät 4097 StereoNussbaum"
>http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/grundig_konzertgeraet_4097_stereo_1.html
>from the setting of the control knobs and tabs. The schematic is on
>http://www.nvhr.nl/gfgf/schema.asp?Zoeken=fuzzy&Merk=grundig&Fabrik=&Model=&Pics=&Schema=&Soort=&Van=&Tot=&SorterenOp=&isSubmitted=yes
>	"Grundig 4097Stereo"
>
>But bear in mind please, that the uncertainty is a) "what did Grundig
>do with the radio furniture" and b) "what did they market overseas".
>And there is a whole lot of other possibilities of what can have
>failed beside tubes.
>
>Regards,
>H.

Thanks!

The actual "faults" were open circuits in a modification added about
40 years ago to enable selection of an external turntable / tape
recorder and a broken tuning cord. Removing the extra wiring and
connecting the original components together again brought it back to
life and I can replace the cord on my next visit.

I want to replace some/all of the valves because although the
radiogram now functions, the quality of output suggests to me that a
fresh set of valves would improve things enormously! And given the age
of the owner, it would be nice if he could enjoy his radiogram at its
best while he can!

Thanks again,

Nick

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#186791 — Re: Ein Engl�nder begegnet einem alten deutschen Radiogramm in Argentinien

Nick Odell schrieb:

[...]
> I want to replace some/all of the valves because although the
> radiogram now functions, the quality of output suggests to me that a
> fresh set of valves would improve things enormously! ...

If I were you I'd check C102/C103 (hum), C101 (decoupling
preamp-stages), and C105/C107 (bass response), too.

HTH

Reinhard

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#186754 — Re: Ein Engl�nder begegnet einem alten deutschen Radiogramm in Argentinien

On Sat, 6 Jun 2015 22:01:00 -0700 (PDT), w-buechsenschuetz@web.de
wrote:

>Different from transistors and ICs there are only very few valves that can be directly replaced by other types. So in almost all cases, if a device is functional, it will still carry the original valve types. On the circuit diagram (you will find a link in other posts) you can see that the valves used are ECC81. These were very common types and should still be available (maybe at some higher costs than at that era). 
>
>The label stapled to the housing probably is NOT a serial number, probably it is a label attached during the production process for some reasons. In some cases these labels indicate where or by whom the part was manufactured or checked.

That's very useful to know: thank you very much.

Nick

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#186756 — Re: Ein Engl?nder begegnet einem alten deutschen Radiogramm in Argentinien

On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 18:58:47 +0200, Reinhard Zwirner
<reinhard.zwirner@t-online.de> wrote:

>Nick Odell schrieb:
>
>[...]
>> Here are some pictures I took of the radiogram: 
>
>[...]
>> This is the control panel of the tuner/amp in the radiogram in
>> Argentina: http://tinypic.com/r/dety8h/8 
>
>I agree with Wolfgang Martens: seems to be Stereomeister 15 H. I'll
>send you a scan of the schematic asap.
>
Many thanks: I've replied to your email!

Nick

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