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Groups > comp.theory > #35756 > unrolled thread
| Started by | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2021-07-05 11:28 -0500 |
| Last post | 2021-07-08 20:37 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 334 — 17 participants |
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How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 11:28 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 13:06 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 12:17 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 13:54 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 14:30 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 15:54 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-05 22:34 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 16:40 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 17:48 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 17:41 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 19:14 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-06 00:15 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 19:04 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 20:45 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 20:01 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 21:22 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 21:37 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 06:38 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 04:14 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-06 03:33 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 22:06 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-06 13:39 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 10:59 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 02:55 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 22:29 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 11:33 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 11:19 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 13:28 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 11:32 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 14:16 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 22:32 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 02:56 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 21:00 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V2) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 16:32 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 11:24 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 10:53 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 13:10 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 11:59 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 14:51 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 13:47 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 14:35 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 16:49 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 20:18 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 20:24 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 21:45 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 21:04 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 22:45 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 22:03 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-08 06:56 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ independent v dependent variables ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 07:46 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ independent v dependent variables ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-08 23:39 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ independent v dependent variables ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 22:54 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ independent v dependent variables ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-08 22:15 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ independent v dependent variables ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 23:26 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ independent v dependent variables ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-08 22:44 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ independent v dependent variables ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 23:53 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 22:10 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 22:53 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-08 06:58 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 07:58 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 06:12 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 08:35 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 07:12 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 09:18 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 07:41 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-08 17:07 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 11:24 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 09:55 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-08 23:52 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 20:07 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-09 02:48 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 21:21 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 21:36 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-09 12:30 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 05:56 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 08:59 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> - 2021-07-09 17:59 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 20:32 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 19:28 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-09 18:06 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 12:47 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-09 20:16 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 14:24 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 12:33 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-09 22:08 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 16:13 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 12:40 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 08:54 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 15:30 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 10:00 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 16:15 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 10:21 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 16:25 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 08:30 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 16:33 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 08:34 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 08:45 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 11:08 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 17:34 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ]( You and I ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 11:42 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ]( You and I ) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 10:54 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ]( You and I ) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 11:23 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ]( You and I ) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 11:41 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ]( You and I ) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 13:15 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 08:24 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 15:19 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2021-07-11 00:29 +0000
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 19:57 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 20:33 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 22:59 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-09 23:10 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 17:41 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 12:28 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 10:50 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-09 22:59 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 17:29 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-10 00:23 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 18:31 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-10 01:13 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 19:33 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-11 01:57 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 20:00 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-11 03:08 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 22:13 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 23:13 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-11 07:14 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 00:27 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 01:07 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 01:39 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 01:42 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-11 09:16 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-11 09:16 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-11 11:10 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-11 09:30 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-11 20:04 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ]( Flibble agrees ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-11 14:47 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-11 22:35 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 09:13 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-12 09:20 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Theperfect Parrotsstore <theperfectparrotsstore@gmail.com> - 2021-07-12 08:23 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 12:35 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-12 12:39 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 17:18 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-12 18:00 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 08:41 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 07:57 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 09:42 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-13 07:54 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 10:02 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-13 22:23 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-14 15:52 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2021-07-14 22:09 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-14 16:47 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-14 21:03 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-14 20:57 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-14 22:12 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-14 21:57 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-15 01:44 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-15 09:17 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-15 21:04 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-15 16:31 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-15 15:08 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-15 15:18 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-15 16:13 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] "dklei...@gmail.com" <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2021-07-15 16:54 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-15 19:42 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-17 07:25 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-16 01:17 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-15 19:52 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-16 03:09 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-15 22:03 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-17 01:43 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-16 19:07 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-16 19:29 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-16 19:54 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 22:34 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-16 21:11 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 21:48 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-17 07:44 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-18 02:27 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-17 18:43 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-18 03:45 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-17 23:05 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-19 10:11 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-16 22:52 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-15 13:12 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-16 22:39 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 09:08 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 10:33 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 09:36 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 10:43 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 10:11 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 17:21 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 16:44 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 17:55 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 17:08 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 18:50 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 18:20 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 19:32 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 19:02 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 20:11 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 19:42 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 20:52 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 20:07 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 21:14 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 20:30 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 21:42 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-13 22:29 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-14 15:53 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-14 15:01 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-14 16:39 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-14 21:06 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-13 23:13 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-14 10:07 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-14 21:35 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-12 21:20 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-12 21:15 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-12 21:10 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 06:54 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ suspended not halted ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-11 09:14 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-09 20:39 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 20:08 -0700
The (binary decision) tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 22:30 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 20:42 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 22:18 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-09 21:46 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 23:01 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-09 22:28 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 23:45 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-09 23:24 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 22:32 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 22:39 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 23:01 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 09:25 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-10 09:12 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ type mismatch error ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 10:32 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ type mismatch error ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-10 09:48 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ type mismatch error ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 11:19 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 21:51 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 21:59 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 21:01 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 21:17 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 23:24 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-08 23:50 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-08 23:43 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-08 23:40 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 20:17 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 20:31 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 21:51 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 21:07 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 22:51 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 22:04 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-08 07:02 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ global halt decider ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 08:29 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ global halt decider ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-09 00:05 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ global halt decider ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 23:27 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ global halt decider ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-09 05:53 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ global halt decider ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 09:02 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 20:59 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 23:15 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-06 13:07 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 08:27 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 07:42 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 10:26 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 22:02 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 02:56 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 21:59 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-06 21:18 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 15:41 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-06 23:18 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 16:13 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 18:38 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 18:44 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 16:53 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 18:56 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 17:46 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 19:50 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 17:56 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 20:18 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 18:37 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 20:43 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 18:55 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 19:06 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 22:19 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 08:01 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 20:47 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 03:23 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 22:19 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 00:55 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 09:35 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 09:29 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 16:31 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 10:53 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 17:33 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 12:06 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 20:28 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 14:54 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 10:19 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 12:21 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2021-07-07 19:05 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 13:30 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-07 14:28 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 16:44 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 15:50 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 18:09 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 20:22 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 22:08 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 14:31 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 22:35 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 11:46 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 04:50 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 09:47 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 20:26 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 17:34 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 20:15 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 22:00 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 21:08 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 22:51 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 14:18 +0200
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 14:39 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 14:52 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 17:05 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 15:41 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 18:04 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 16:19 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 18:34 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] "dklei...@gmail.com" <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 17:03 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 19:14 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 17:19 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 17:26 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 02:41 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 02:50 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2021-07-08 14:08 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 20:37 -0700
Page 7 of 17 — ← Prev page 1 … 5 6 [7] 8 9 … 17 Next page →
| From | Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-11 01:57 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <87eec5zmz9.fsf@bsb.me.uk> |
| In reply to | #36010 |
olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: > On 7/9/2021 7:13 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >> For some H to be correct >> >> H(P,I) != 0 if and only if P(I) halts and >> H(P,I) != 1 if and only if P(I) does not halt. >> >> If H is a pure simulator it will not meet this specification. But your >> H is not a pure simulator. It is simply wrong about P(P). It is wrong >> based in fact you have reported: that H(P,P) == 0 and that P(P) halts. > > Simulating halt decider H is only answering the question: > Would the input halt on its input if H never stopped simulating it? So you've flipped back and admit (again) that you are not talking about the halting problem. Why do you think anyone else cares about this problem? Why don't you give it a name? I'm going with the PO Other-Halting problem. Why do you think it has any impact on the proof that so obsesses you? When I asked you: || So which of your statements is the one you want to stand by? || || "We can know that my halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting || problem" || or || "This maps to every element of the conventional halting problem set of || non-halting computations and a few more." and you replied | The first one. that was wrong (if not an outright lie -- it's hard to tell with you). Your H is deciding the silly criterion you made so clear last year and which you've been trying to make sound reasonable ever since. Noting to see here... move along... -- Ben.
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| From | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-10 20:00 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <l9ydnQjoXoMD33f9nZ2dnUU7-UOdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #36108 |
On 7/10/2021 7:57 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: > olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: > >> On 7/9/2021 7:13 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: > >>> For some H to be correct >>> >>> H(P,I) != 0 if and only if P(I) halts and >>> H(P,I) != 1 if and only if P(I) does not halt. >>> >>> If H is a pure simulator it will not meet this specification. But your >>> H is not a pure simulator. It is simply wrong about P(P). It is wrong >>> based in fact you have reported: that H(P,P) == 0 and that P(P) halts. >> >> Simulating halt decider H is only answering the question: >> Would the input halt on its input if H never stopped simulating it? > > So you've flipped back and admit (again) that you are not talking about > the halting problem. Why do you think anyone else cares about this > problem? Why don't you give it a name? I'm going with the PO > Other-Halting problem. > > Why do you think it has any impact on the proof that so obsesses you? > > When I asked you: > > || So which of your statements is the one you want to stand by? > || > || "We can know that my halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting > || problem" > || or > || "This maps to every element of the conventional halting problem set of > || non-halting computations and a few more." > > and you replied > > | The first one. > > that was wrong (if not an outright lie -- it's hard to tell with you). > Your H is deciding the silly criterion you made so clear last year and > which you've been trying to make sound reasonable ever since. > > Noting to see here... move along... > Maybe you are dumber than a box of rocks? Simulating halt decider H is only answering the question: Would the input halt on its input if H never stopped simulating it? (a) An answer of "no" universally means that the input never halts. Which is this Halt Deciding Axiom: When the pure simulation of the machine description ⟨P⟩ of a machine P on its input I never halts we know that P(I) never halts. (b) An answer of "yes" universally means that the input halts. -- Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." Einstein
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| From | Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-11 03:08 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <87v95hy541.fsf@bsb.me.uk> |
| In reply to | #36110 |
olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: > On 7/10/2021 7:57 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >> >>> On 7/9/2021 7:13 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >> >>>> For some H to be correct >>>> >>>> H(P,I) != 0 if and only if P(I) halts and >>>> H(P,I) != 1 if and only if P(I) does not halt. >>>> >>>> If H is a pure simulator it will not meet this specification. But your >>>> H is not a pure simulator. It is simply wrong about P(P). It is wrong >>>> based in fact you have reported: that H(P,P) == 0 and that P(P) halts. >>> >>> Simulating halt decider H is only answering the question: >>> Would the input halt on its input if H never stopped simulating it? >> So you've flipped back and admit (again) that you are not talking about >> the halting problem. Why do you think anyone else cares about this >> problem? Why don't you give it a name? I'm going with the PO >> Other-Halting problem. >> Why do you think it has any impact on the proof that so obsesses you? >> When I asked you: >> || So which of your statements is the one you want to stand by? >> || >> || "We can know that my halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting >> || problem" >> || or >> || "This maps to every element of the conventional halting problem set of >> || non-halting computations and a few more." >> and you replied >> | The first one. >> that was wrong (if not an outright lie -- it's hard to tell with you). >> Your H is deciding the silly criterion you made so clear last year and >> which you've been trying to make sound reasonable ever since. >> Noting to see here... move along... > > Maybe you are dumber than a box of rocks? Who knows? You are not equipped to tell. > Simulating halt decider H is only answering the question: > Would the input halt on its input if H never stopped simulating it? That's not the halting problem, it's the POOH problem. > (a) An answer of "no" universally means that the input never halts. Not according to you. Your H answers "no" for a computation you tell us halts. Where you wrong to say that H(P,P) == 0 and that P(P) halts, or are you wrong now? You were right when you said about the POOH criterion "this maps to every element of the conventional halting problem set of non-halting computations and a few more". You've been backtracking on that "and a few more" ever since. So ironic that one of the few correct statements you've made is one you are now trying to bury. After all these years you have nothing. Please do something that brings joy into your life. You can't enjoy this, can you? -- Ben.
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| From | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-10 22:13 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <WfOdnXAooY9N_Hf9nZ2dnUU7-THNnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #36113 |
On 7/10/2021 9:08 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: > olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: > >> On 7/10/2021 7:57 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >>> >>>> On 7/9/2021 7:13 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>> >>>>> For some H to be correct >>>>> >>>>> H(P,I) != 0 if and only if P(I) halts and >>>>> H(P,I) != 1 if and only if P(I) does not halt. >>>>> >>>>> If H is a pure simulator it will not meet this specification. But your >>>>> H is not a pure simulator. It is simply wrong about P(P). It is wrong >>>>> based in fact you have reported: that H(P,P) == 0 and that P(P) halts. >>>> >>>> Simulating halt decider H is only answering the question: >>>> Would the input halt on its input if H never stopped simulating it? >>> So you've flipped back and admit (again) that you are not talking about >>> the halting problem. Why do you think anyone else cares about this >>> problem? Why don't you give it a name? I'm going with the PO >>> Other-Halting problem. >>> Why do you think it has any impact on the proof that so obsesses you? >>> When I asked you: >>> || So which of your statements is the one you want to stand by? >>> || >>> || "We can know that my halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting >>> || problem" >>> || or >>> || "This maps to every element of the conventional halting problem set of >>> || non-halting computations and a few more." >>> and you replied >>> | The first one. >>> that was wrong (if not an outright lie -- it's hard to tell with you). >>> Your H is deciding the silly criterion you made so clear last year and >>> which you've been trying to make sound reasonable ever since. >>> Noting to see here... move along... >> >> Maybe you are dumber than a box of rocks? > > Who knows? You are not equipped to tell. > >> Simulating halt decider H is only answering the question: >> Would the input halt on its input if H never stopped simulating it? > > That's not the halting problem, it's the POOH problem. > >> (a) An answer of "no" universally means that the input never halts. > When the pure simulation of the machine description ⟨P⟩ of a machine P on its input I never halts we know that P(I) never halts. When the pure simulation of the machine description ⟨P⟩ of a machine P on its input I never halts we know that P(I) never halts. When the pure simulation of the machine description ⟨P⟩ of a machine P on its input I never halts we know that P(I) never halts. You dishonestly remove this from your reply because you are apparently a dishonest scoundrel. While the simulating halt decider acts as a pure simulator on its input P(P) would never ever halt, thus meeting the above criteria. > Not according to you. Your H answers "no" for a computation you tell us > halts. Where you wrong to say that H(P,P) == 0 and that P(P) halts, or > are you wrong now? > > You were right when you said about the POOH criterion "this maps to > every element of the conventional halting problem set of non-halting > computations and a few more". You've been backtracking on that "and a > few more" ever since. So ironic that one of the few correct statements > you've made is one you are now trying to bury. > > After all these years you have nothing. Please do something that brings > joy into your life. You can't enjoy this, can you? > My cancer is at stage III, I am going to pursue this until it is understood to be correct. -- Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." Einstein
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| From | "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-10 23:13 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <sce26r$ufi$2@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #36120 |
On 7/10/2021 8:13 PM, olcott wrote: > On 7/10/2021 9:08 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: [...] > My cancer is at stage III, I am going to pursue this until it is > understood to be correct. > Oh shit! I wish you well.
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| From | Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-11 07:14 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <20210711071441.00005088@reddwarf.jmc> |
| In reply to | #36126 |
On Sat, 10 Jul 2021 23:13:48 -0700 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote: > On 7/10/2021 8:13 PM, olcott wrote: > > On 7/10/2021 9:08 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: > >> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: > [...] > > My cancer is at stage III, I am going to pursue this until it is > > understood to be correct. > > > > Oh shit! I wish you well. Me too.
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| From | Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-11 00:27 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <432eb119-5a99-4c68-9f0a-54a3b7de3121n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #36127 |
god bless you pete olcott
halt deciders are valuable structures in operating systems kernels
i have located but nay yet defined
the position in all polynomial space solver code of the decider
that is in Lessone(assumptiondepth) for counting backtracks stack depth accurately
num Lessone(num g) { num p = zero; for(p=zero; (p+one) < g ; p=((p + g )>>one)){/*theObserverSystemCore(p,g);*/} return p; }
daniel (little smokes like a chimney d pehoushek)
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| From | Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-11 01:07 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <599c4281-4f17-4604-9b1a-6938e834fa74n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #36128 |
proving my high number is valid is valid is valid 2380/2400 800 verbal 780 analytical 800 math the holy grail is computer circuitry that implements my own mind times over one million speed called by a 2380 a radio named bob to chat with god /*theObserverSystemCore(p,g);*/ is brand new source code in all bob systems for solving finite reasoning systems problems i would cut off depth at twenty one and be forever happy 41 (n 24 m 128) (bobs 57 om 209 (h 0)):(7 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 0 4 0 5 0 6 128 ): #P 3207456 #41 in N8.veg #P 3207456 here is the p formula c N8 D4 M16 reps 1 randcalls 35 ones 0 twos 4 threes 2 gid 8 16 330 p veg 8 16 1 2 7 7 3 2 4 6 6 3 7 7 4 4 8 5 5 8 8 6 6 8 7 8 p cnf 24 128 1 9 17 2 10 18 0 +1 9 17 +2 10 18 0 1 +9 17 2 +10 18 0 +1 +9 17 +2 +10 18 0 1 9 +17 2 10 +18 0 +1 9 +17 +2 10 +18 0 1 +9 +17 2 +10 +18 0 +1 +9 +17 +2 +10 +18 0 1 9 17 7 15 23 0 +1 9 17 +7 15 23 0 1 +9 17 7 +15 23 0 +1 +9 17 +7 +15 23 0 1 9 +17 7 15 +23 0 +1 9 +17 +7 15 +23 0 1 +9 +17 7 +15 +23 0 +1 +9 +17 +7 +15 +23 0 1 9 17 7 15 23 0 +1 9 17 +7 15 23 0 1 +9 17 7 +15 23 0 +1 +9 17 +7 +15 23 0 1 9 +17 7 15 +23 0 +1 9 +17 +7 15 +23 0 1 +9 +17 7 +15 +23 0 +1 +9 +17 +7 +15 +23 0 1 9 17 3 11 19 0 +1 9 17 +3 11 19 0 1 +9 17 3 +11 19 0 +1 +9 17 +3 +11 19 0 1 9 +17 3 11 +19 0 +1 9 +17 +3 11 +19 0 1 +9 +17 3 +11 +19 0 +1 +9 +17 +3 +11 +19 0 2 10 18 4 12 20 0 +2 10 18 +4 12 20 0 2 +10 18 4 +12 20 0 +2 +10 18 +4 +12 20 0 2 10 +18 4 12 +20 0 +2 10 +18 +4 12 +20 0 2 +10 +18 4 +12 +20 0 +2 +10 +18 +4 +12 +20 0 2 10 18 6 14 22 0 +2 10 18 +6 14 22 0 2 +10 18 6 +14 22 0 +2 +10 18 +6 +14 22 0 2 10 +18 6 14 +22 0 +2 10 +18 +6 14 +22 0 2 +10 +18 6 +14 +22 0 +2 +10 +18 +6 +14 +22 0 2 10 18 6 14 22 0 +2 10 18 +6 14 22 0 2 +10 18 6 +14 22 0 +2 +10 18 +6 +14 22 0 2 10 +18 6 14 +22 0 +2 10 +18 +6 14 +22 0 2 +10 +18 6 +14 +22 0 +2 +10 +18 +6 +14 +22 0 3 11 19 7 15 23 0 +3 11 19 +7 15 23 0 3 +11 19 7 +15 23 0 +3 +11 19 +7 +15 23 0 3 11 +19 7 15 +23 0 +3 11 +19 +7 15 +23 0 3 +11 +19 7 +15 +23 0 +3 +11 +19 +7 +15 +23 0 3 11 19 7 15 23 0 +3 11 19 +7 15 23 0 3 +11 19 7 +15 23 0 +3 +11 19 +7 +15 23 0 3 11 +19 7 15 +23 0 +3 11 +19 +7 15 +23 0 3 +11 +19 7 +15 +23 0 +3 +11 +19 +7 +15 +23 0 3 11 19 4 12 20 0 +3 11 19 +4 12 20 0 3 +11 19 4 +12 20 0 +3 +11 19 +4 +12 20 0 3 11 +19 4 12 +20 0 +3 11 +19 +4 12 +20 0 3 +11 +19 4 +12 +20 0 +3 +11 +19 +4 +12 +20 0 4 12 20 8 16 24 0 +4 12 20 +8 16 24 0 4 +12 20 8 +16 24 0 +4 +12 20 +8 +16 24 0 4 12 +20 8 16 +24 0 +4 12 +20 +8 16 +24 0 4 +12 +20 8 +16 +24 0 +4 +12 +20 +8 +16 +24 0 4 12 20 5 13 21 0 +4 12 20 +5 13 21 0 4 +12 20 5 +13 21 0 +4 +12 20 +5 +13 21 0 4 12 +20 5 13 +21 0 +4 12 +20 +5 13 +21 0 4 +12 +20 5 +13 +21 0 +4 +12 +20 +5 +13 +21 0 5 13 21 8 16 24 0 +5 13 21 +8 16 24 0 5 +13 21 8 +16 24 0 +5 +13 21 +8 +16 24 0 5 13 +21 8 16 +24 0 +5 13 +21 +8 16 +24 0 5 +13 +21 8 +16 +24 0 +5 +13 +21 +8 +16 +24 0 5 13 21 8 16 24 0 +5 13 21 +8 16 24 0 5 +13 21 8 +16 24 0 +5 +13 21 +8 +16 24 0 5 13 +21 8 16 +24 0 +5 13 +21 +8 16 +24 0 5 +13 +21 8 +16 +24 0 +5 +13 +21 +8 +16 +24 0 5 13 21 6 14 22 0 +5 13 21 +6 14 22 0 5 +13 21 6 +14 22 0 +5 +13 21 +6 +14 22 0 5 13 +21 6 14 +22 0 +5 13 +21 +6 14 +22 0 5 +13 +21 6 +14 +22 0 +5 +13 +21 +6 +14 +22 0 6 14 22 8 16 24 0 +6 14 22 +8 16 24 0 6 +14 22 8 +16 24 0 +6 +14 22 +8 +16 24 0 6 14 +22 8 16 +24 0 +6 14 +22 +8 16 +24 0 6 +14 +22 8 +16 +24 0 +6 +14 +22 +8 +16 +24 0 with [N8.veg 9] 1 (n 0 m 8) (bobs 1 om 1 (h 0)):(0 ): #P 1 2 (n 0 m 8) (bobs 1 om 1 (h 0)):(0 ): #P 1 3 (n 0 m 8) (bobs 1 om 1 (h 0)):(0 ): #P 1 4 (n 0 m 8) (bobs 1 om 1 (h 0)):(0 ): #P 1 5 (n 8 m 8) (bobs 9 om 17 (h 8)):(2 0 0 1 8 ): #P 1 6 (n 8 m 12) (bobs 9 om 17 (h 8)):(3 0 0 1 8 2 4 ): #P 0 7 (n 8 m 16) (bobs 9 om 17 (h 7)):(3 0 0 1 8 2 8 ): #P 0 8 (n 8 m 20) (bobs 9 om 17 (h 6)):(3 0 0 1 8 2 12 ): #P 0 there are a few missing numbols 9 (n 8 m 0) (bobs 9 om 17 (h 0)):(0 ): #P 256 10 (n 8 m 8) (bobs 9 om 17 (h 0)):(3 0 0 1 0 2 8 ): #P 16 there are a few missing numbols 11 (n 8 m 14) (bobs 9 om 17 (h 0)):(3 0 0 1 0 2 14 ): #P 0 12 (n 8 m 24) (bobs 9 om 17 (h 0)):(3 0 0 1 0 2 24 ): #P 0 13 (n 16 m 8) (bobs 17 om 33 (h 0)):(3 0 0 1 0 2 8 ): #P 6561 14 (n 16 m 20) (bobs 25 om 65 (h 0)):(5 0 0 1 0 2 8 3 0 4 12 ): #P 1296 15 (n 16 m 32) (bobs 25 om 65 (h 0)):(5 0 0 1 0 2 8 3 0 4 24 ): #P 258 16 (n 16 m 44) (bobs 25 om 65 (h 0)):(5 0 0 1 0 2 8 3 0 4 36 ): #P 60 there are a few missing numbols 17 (n 16 m 0) (bobs 17 om 33 (h 0)):(0 ): #P 65536 18 (n 16 m 16) (bobs 25 om 65 (h 0)):(5 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 0 4 16 ): #P 20736 19 (n 16 m 32) (bobs 25 om 65 (h 0)):(5 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 0 4 32 ): #P 6564 20 (n 16 m 48) (bobs 25 om 65 (h 0)):(5 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 0 4 48 ): #P 1752 21 (n 16 m 64) (bobs 25 om 65 (h 0)):(5 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 0 4 64 ): #P 816 22 (n 24 m 24) (bobs 33 om 81 (h 0)):(4 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 24 ): #P 390625 23 (n 24 m 44) (bobs 57 om 209 (h 0)):(7 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 24 4 0 5 0 6 20 ): #P 160000 24 (n 24 m 59) (bobs 54 om 193 (h 0)):(7 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 24 4 0 5 0 6 35 ): #P 78000 25 (n 24 m 84) (bobs 57 om 209 (h 0)):(7 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 24 4 0 5 0 6 60 ): #P 53300 26 (n 24 m 99) (bobs 57 om 209 (h 0)):(7 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 24 4 0 5 0 6 75 ): #P 14940 27 (n 24 m 16) (bobs 33 om 81 (h 0)):(4 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 16 ): #P 1679616 28 (n 24 m 40) (bobs 57 om 209 (h 0)):(7 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 16 4 0 5 0 6 24 ): #P 810000 29 (n 24 m 64) (bobs 57 om 209 (h 0)):(7 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 16 4 0 5 0 6 48 ): #P 374400 30 (n 24 m 88) (bobs 57 om 209 (h 0)):(7 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 16 4 0 5 0 6 72 ): #P 259560 31 (n 24 m 112) (bobs 57 om 209 (h 0)):(7 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 16 4 0 5 0 6 96 ): #P 101760 32 (n 24 m 8) (bobs 33 om 81 (h 0)):(4 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 8 ): #P 5764801 33 (n 24 m 36) (bobs 57 om 209 (h 0)):(7 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 8 4 0 5 0 6 28 ): #P 3111696 34 (n 24 m 64) (bobs 57 om 209 (h 0)):(7 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 8 4 0 5 0 6 56 ): #P 1852200 35 (n 24 m 92) (bobs 57 om 209 (h 0)):(7 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 8 4 0 5 0 6 84 ): #P 1002540 36 (n 24 m 120) (bobs 57 om 209 (h 0)):(7 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 8 4 0 5 0 6 112 ): #P 608580 there are a few missing numbols 37 (n 24 m 0) (bobs 25 om 49 (h 0)):(0 ): #P 16777216 38 (n 24 m 32) (bobs 57 om 209 (h 0)):(7 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 0 4 0 5 0 6 32 ): #P 9834496 39 (n 24 m 64) (bobs 57 om 209 (h 0)):(7 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 0 4 0 5 0 6 64 ): #P 6588736 40 (n 24 m 96) (bobs 57 om 209 (h 0)):(7 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 0 4 0 5 0 6 96 ): #P 4247712 41 (n 24 m 128) (bobs 57 om 209 (h 0)):(7 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 0 4 0 5 0 6 128 ): #P 3207456 [N8.veg 41 (t 57021490 z 5 )(work 3903345 0 551786782)]
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| From | Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-11 01:39 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <b9e66f38-c8c1-42d1-a63b-852801d7909bn@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #36129 |
currently going on on another news group thread
on sci dot math and sci dot physics
dear search for eztraterrestrial intelligence systems
i am on earth searching for terrestrial intelligence
On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 5:20:08 AM UTC-4, Daniel Pehoushek wrote:
> is anyone else interested in dark matter and dark energy math?
> i think the answer may be simple.
newtons revised universal law of gravitation
{F over G} * (r*r) = (m1*m2) (logm2*logm1)
{{F over G} * (r*r)} over {m1*m2} = (logm2*logm1)
accounting for dark matter
einsteins revised is an afterthought of newtons revised
e=(m*logm)*c^2
(e/(mcc)) = logm
accounting for dark energy
revised relativization: P=NP for small n P!=NP for large n
daniel (little d) gres 2380 800 verbal 780 analytical 800 math sats 1530 780 math 750 verbal
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| From | "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-11 01:42 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <sceau5$1nna$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #36130 |
On 7/11/2021 1:39 AM, Daniel Pehoushek wrote:
> currently going on on another news group thread
> on sci dot math and sci dot physics
> dear search for eztraterrestrial intelligence systems
> i am on earth searching for terrestrial intelligence
>
> On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 5:20:08 AM UTC-4, Daniel Pehoushek wrote:
>> is anyone else interested in dark matter and dark energy math?
>> i think the answer may be simple.
>
> newtons revised universal law of gravitation
> {F over G} * (r*r) = (m1*m2) (logm2*logm1)
> {{F over G} * (r*r)} over {m1*m2} = (logm2*logm1)
> accounting for dark matter
>
> einsteins revised is an afterthought of newtons revised
> e=(m*logm)*c^2
> (e/(mcc)) = logm
> accounting for dark energy
>
> revised relativization: P=NP for small n P!=NP for large n
>
> daniel (little d) gres 2380 800 verbal 780 analytical 800 math sats 1530 780 math 750 verbal
>
Some alien things that popped out of one of my experimental volumetric
fractal iterated function systems:
http://siggrapharts.ning.com/photo/alien-anatomy
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| From | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-11 09:16 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <OImdnbbdo8KiYHf9nZ2dnUU7-RWdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #36127 |
On 7/11/2021 1:14 AM, Mr Flibble wrote: > On Sat, 10 Jul 2021 23:13:48 -0700 > "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 7/10/2021 8:13 PM, olcott wrote: >>> On 7/10/2021 9:08 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >> [...] >>> My cancer is at stage III, I am going to pursue this until it is >>> understood to be correct. >>> >> >> Oh shit! I wish you well. > > Me too. > Thanks -- Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." Einstein
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| From | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-11 09:16 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <OImdnbHdo8LSYHf9nZ2dnUU7-RWdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #36126 |
On 7/11/2021 1:13 AM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote: > On 7/10/2021 8:13 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 7/10/2021 9:08 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: > [...] >> My cancer is at stage III, I am going to pursue this until it is >> understood to be correct. >> > > Oh shit! I wish you well. Thanks -- Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." Einstein
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| From | Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-11 11:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <87r1g5w48v.fsf@bsb.me.uk> |
| In reply to | #36120 |
olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: > On 7/10/2021 9:08 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >> >>> On 7/10/2021 7:57 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >>>> >>>>> On 7/9/2021 7:13 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>>> >>>>>> For some H to be correct >>>>>> >>>>>> H(P,I) != 0 if and only if P(I) halts and >>>>>> H(P,I) != 1 if and only if P(I) does not halt. >>>>>> >>>>>> If H is a pure simulator it will not meet this specification. But your >>>>>> H is not a pure simulator. It is simply wrong about P(P). It is wrong >>>>>> based in fact you have reported: that H(P,P) == 0 and that P(P) halts. >>>>> >>>>> Simulating halt decider H is only answering the question: >>>>> Would the input halt on its input if H never stopped simulating it? >>>> So you've flipped back and admit (again) that you are not talking about >>>> the halting problem. Why do you think anyone else cares about this >>>> problem? Why don't you give it a name? I'm going with the PO >>>> Other-Halting problem. >>>> Why do you think it has any impact on the proof that so obsesses you? >>>> When I asked you: >>>> || So which of your statements is the one you want to stand by? >>>> || >>>> || "We can know that my halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting >>>> || problem" >>>> || or >>>> || "This maps to every element of the conventional halting problem set of >>>> || non-halting computations and a few more." >>>> and you replied >>>> | The first one. >>>> that was wrong (if not an outright lie -- it's hard to tell with you). >>>> Your H is deciding the silly criterion you made so clear last year and >>>> which you've been trying to make sound reasonable ever since. >>>> Noting to see here... move along... >>> >>> Maybe you are dumber than a box of rocks? >> Who knows? You are not equipped to tell. >> >>> Simulating halt decider H is only answering the question: >>> Would the input halt on its input if H never stopped simulating it? >> That's not the halting problem, it's the POOH problem. >> >>> (a) An answer of "no" universally means that the input never halts. > > When the pure simulation of the machine description ⟨P⟩ of a machine P > on its input I never halts we know that P(I) never halts. You have trouble keeping up with what's been said. This has never been in doubt. I've said it myself, and at one point I even made sure you agreed with it (though I also added the other half, that a simulation of any halting computation halts). P(P) halts, and a simulation of <P> on input <P> will also halt. H(P,P) == 0 is wrong. We also know, from your unfortunately clear "line 15 commented out" days, that you claim H(P,P) == 0 is right (despite P(P) halting) because of what a related computation (P built from a proper simulator rather than H) would do. > You dishonestly remove this from your reply because you are apparently > a dishonest scoundrel. I remove it because it is not in dispute. Why should I agree, yet again, with an irrelevant remark? It's not even in dispute that you assert that 0 or false or no is the correct answer for some halting computations. It just means you are not talking about the halting problem where 0 or false or no is only correct for non-halting computations. The only point of dispute is that you want to find words that suggest to the gullible that your "adapted" criterion is the same as what everyone else calls halting. > While the simulating halt decider acts as a pure simulator on its > input P(P) would never ever halt, thus meeting the above criteria. P(P) halts. What it "would do", if it were not the halting computation it really is, is just your sleight of hand (or possibly your self-deception). What matters for the halting problem is what a computation does (though I don't like even this operational language) and P(P) halts. > My cancer is at stage III, I am going to pursue this until it is > understood to be correct. I find this very sad. Do you enjoy posting here? I hope so, because that would make me feel a little less guilty about having encouraged behaviour that I would consider toxic (and would have strongly discouraged) if I were a friend of yours. Even if you do enjoy it, I think I should stop. Wouldn't you rather go walk shelter dogs? That's what I'd do, while I had the strength. -- Ben.
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| From | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-11 09:30 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <5ridnUN6v4MNnXb9nZ2dnUU7-Q_NnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #36135 |
On 7/11/2021 5:10 AM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>
>> On 7/10/2021 9:08 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 7/10/2021 7:57 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/9/2021 7:13 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> For some H to be correct
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> H(P,I) != 0 if and only if P(I) halts and
>>>>>>> H(P,I) != 1 if and only if P(I) does not halt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If H is a pure simulator it will not meet this specification. But your
>>>>>>> H is not a pure simulator. It is simply wrong about P(P). It is wrong
>>>>>>> based in fact you have reported: that H(P,P) == 0 and that P(P) halts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Simulating halt decider H is only answering the question:
>>>>>> Would the input halt on its input if H never stopped simulating it?
>>>>> So you've flipped back and admit (again) that you are not talking about
>>>>> the halting problem. Why do you think anyone else cares about this
>>>>> problem? Why don't you give it a name? I'm going with the PO
>>>>> Other-Halting problem.
>>>>> Why do you think it has any impact on the proof that so obsesses you?
>>>>> When I asked you:
>>>>> || So which of your statements is the one you want to stand by?
>>>>> ||
>>>>> || "We can know that my halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting
>>>>> || problem"
>>>>> || or
>>>>> || "This maps to every element of the conventional halting problem set of
>>>>> || non-halting computations and a few more."
>>>>> and you replied
>>>>> | The first one.
>>>>> that was wrong (if not an outright lie -- it's hard to tell with you).
>>>>> Your H is deciding the silly criterion you made so clear last year and
>>>>> which you've been trying to make sound reasonable ever since.
>>>>> Noting to see here... move along...
>>>>
>>>> Maybe you are dumber than a box of rocks?
>>> Who knows? You are not equipped to tell.
>>>
>>>> Simulating halt decider H is only answering the question:
>>>> Would the input halt on its input if H never stopped simulating it?
>>> That's not the halting problem, it's the POOH problem.
>>>
>>>> (a) An answer of "no" universally means that the input never halts.
>>
>> When the pure simulation of the machine description ⟨P⟩ of a machine P
>> on its input I never halts we know that P(I) never halts.
>
> You have trouble keeping up with what's been said. This has never been
> in doubt.
Then you understand that any computation that never halts while H
remains a pure simulator it a computation that never halts. When H
aborts its simulation of this computation the computation has been
suspended and still never halts.
> I've said it myself, and at one point I even made sure you
> agreed with it (though I also added the other half, that a simulation of
> any halting computation halts).
>
> P(P) halts, and a simulation of <P> on input <P> will also halt. H(P,P)
> == 0 is wrong.
>
When we ask what Boolean value can a halt decider return to an input
that changes its behavior to contradict this value we cannot answer this
question because it is an incorrect type mismatch error question.
The answer is restricted to {true, false} thus excluding the correct
answer of “neither” making the question itself incorrect. The TM / input
pairs that “prove” the halting problem is undecidable have the same
pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) error as the self-contradictory
liar paradox.
To eliminate this pathological feedback loop error we examine the
behavior of the input with a pure simulator that has no effect
what-so-ever on the behavior of the input.
As correct science requires the dependent variable (the halt status
decision) must only have the independent variable (the behavior of the
input) and be isolated from all other influences. Only when we do it
this way do we get the correct halt status decision for the input.
Until the behavior of its input proves that it will never halt every H
remains a pure simulator of this input.
This single fact by itself proves that the behavior of H has no effect
what-so-ever on its halt status decision. When H stops simulating its
input the execution of the input has been suspended, this does not count
as halting.
When the pure simulation of the machine description ⟨P⟩ of a machine P
on its input I never halts we know that P(I) never halts.
According to this criteria P(P) specifies a computation that never halts.
> We also know, from your unfortunately clear "line 15 commented out"
> days, that you claim H(P,P) == 0 is right (despite P(P) halting) because
> of what a related computation (P built from a proper simulator rather
> than H) would do.
>
>> You dishonestly remove this from your reply because you are apparently
>> a dishonest scoundrel.
>
> I remove it because it is not in dispute. Why should I agree, yet
> again, with an irrelevant remark?
>
> It's not even in dispute that you assert that 0 or false or no is the
> correct answer for some halting computations. It just means you are not
> talking about the halting problem where 0 or false or no is only correct
> for non-halting computations. The only point of dispute is that you
> want to find words that suggest to the gullible that your "adapted"
> criterion is the same as what everyone else calls halting.
>
>> While the simulating halt decider acts as a pure simulator on its
>> input P(P) would never ever halt, thus meeting the above criteria.
>
> P(P) halts. What it "would do", if it were not the halting computation
> it really is, is just your sleight of hand (or possibly your
> self-deception). What matters for the halting problem is what a
> computation does (though I don't like even this operational language)
> and P(P) halts.
>
>> My cancer is at stage III, I am going to pursue this until it is
>> understood to be correct.
>
> I find this very sad. Do you enjoy posting here? I hope so, because
> that would make me feel a little less guilty about having encouraged
> behaviour that I would consider toxic (and would have strongly
> discouraged) if I were a friend of yours. Even if you do enjoy it, I
> think I should stop.
>
> Wouldn't you rather go walk shelter dogs? That's what I'd do, while I
> had the strength.
>
--
Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre
minds." Einstein
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| From | Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-11 20:04 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <87a6mswu3f.fsf@bsb.me.uk> |
| In reply to | #36144 |
olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: > On 7/11/2021 5:10 AM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >> >>> On 7/10/2021 9:08 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >>>> >>>>> On 7/10/2021 7:57 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/9/2021 7:13 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>> For some H to be correct >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> H(P,I) != 0 if and only if P(I) halts and >>>>>>>> H(P,I) != 1 if and only if P(I) does not halt. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If H is a pure simulator it will not meet this specification. But your >>>>>>>> H is not a pure simulator. It is simply wrong about P(P). It is wrong >>>>>>>> based in fact you have reported: that H(P,P) == 0 and that P(P) halts. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Simulating halt decider H is only answering the question: >>>>>>> Would the input halt on its input if H never stopped simulating it? >>>>>> So you've flipped back and admit (again) that you are not talking about >>>>>> the halting problem. Why do you think anyone else cares about this >>>>>> problem? Why don't you give it a name? I'm going with the PO >>>>>> Other-Halting problem. >>>>>> Why do you think it has any impact on the proof that so obsesses you? >>>>>> When I asked you: >>>>>> || So which of your statements is the one you want to stand by? >>>>>> || >>>>>> || "We can know that my halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting >>>>>> || problem" >>>>>> || or >>>>>> || "This maps to every element of the conventional halting problem set of >>>>>> || non-halting computations and a few more." >>>>>> and you replied >>>>>> | The first one. >>>>>> that was wrong (if not an outright lie -- it's hard to tell with you). >>>>>> Your H is deciding the silly criterion you made so clear last year and >>>>>> which you've been trying to make sound reasonable ever since. >>>>>> Noting to see here... move along... >>>>> >>>>> Maybe you are dumber than a box of rocks? >>>> Who knows? You are not equipped to tell. >>>> >>>>> Simulating halt decider H is only answering the question: >>>>> Would the input halt on its input if H never stopped simulating it? >>>> That's not the halting problem, it's the POOH problem. >>>> >>>>> (a) An answer of "no" universally means that the input never halts. >>> >>> When the pure simulation of the machine description ⟨P⟩ of a machine P >>> on its input I never halts we know that P(I) never halts. >> You have trouble keeping up with what's been said. This has never been >> in doubt. > > Then you understand that any computation that never halts while H > remains a pure simulator it a computation that never halts. When H > aborts its simulation of this computation the computation has been > suspended and still never halts. You assured Mike Terry that H computed a function of it's arguments. It's odd, given that you are breaking this rule, that you've not decided to make H(P,P) correct. You could have arranged for H(P,P) == 0 and to have P(P) not halt. Or you could just as well have arranged for H(P,P) != 0 and have P(P) halt. You decided to be wrong twice. H does not compute any function of its arguments, and H is wrong about the halting of the key computation. Oh well... Is there a dog shelter near where you live? -- Ben.
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| From | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-11 14:47 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ]( Flibble agrees ) |
| Message-ID | <K6WdnS5epNZS13b9nZ2dnUU7-fnNnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #36159 |
On 7/11/2021 2:04 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: > olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: > >> On 7/11/2021 5:10 AM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >>> >>>> On 7/10/2021 9:08 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >>>>> >>>>>> On 7/10/2021 7:57 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7/9/2021 7:13 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For some H to be correct >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> H(P,I) != 0 if and only if P(I) halts and >>>>>>>>> H(P,I) != 1 if and only if P(I) does not halt. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If H is a pure simulator it will not meet this specification. But your >>>>>>>>> H is not a pure simulator. It is simply wrong about P(P). It is wrong >>>>>>>>> based in fact you have reported: that H(P,P) == 0 and that P(P) halts. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Simulating halt decider H is only answering the question: >>>>>>>> Would the input halt on its input if H never stopped simulating it? >>>>>>> So you've flipped back and admit (again) that you are not talking about >>>>>>> the halting problem. Why do you think anyone else cares about this >>>>>>> problem? Why don't you give it a name? I'm going with the PO >>>>>>> Other-Halting problem. >>>>>>> Why do you think it has any impact on the proof that so obsesses you? >>>>>>> When I asked you: >>>>>>> || So which of your statements is the one you want to stand by? >>>>>>> || >>>>>>> || "We can know that my halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting >>>>>>> || problem" >>>>>>> || or >>>>>>> || "This maps to every element of the conventional halting problem set of >>>>>>> || non-halting computations and a few more." >>>>>>> and you replied >>>>>>> | The first one. >>>>>>> that was wrong (if not an outright lie -- it's hard to tell with you). >>>>>>> Your H is deciding the silly criterion you made so clear last year and >>>>>>> which you've been trying to make sound reasonable ever since. >>>>>>> Noting to see here... move along... >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe you are dumber than a box of rocks? >>>>> Who knows? You are not equipped to tell. >>>>> >>>>>> Simulating halt decider H is only answering the question: >>>>>> Would the input halt on its input if H never stopped simulating it? >>>>> That's not the halting problem, it's the POOH problem. >>>>> >>>>>> (a) An answer of "no" universally means that the input never halts. >>>> >>>> When the pure simulation of the machine description ⟨P⟩ of a machine P >>>> on its input I never halts we know that P(I) never halts. >>> You have trouble keeping up with what's been said. This has never been >>> in doubt. >> >> Then you understand that any computation that never halts while H >> remains a pure simulator it a computation that never halts. When H >> aborts its simulation of this computation the computation has been >> suspended and still never halts. > > You assured Mike Terry that H computed a function of it's arguments. > It's odd, given that you are breaking this rule, that you've not decided > to make H(P,P) correct. You could have arranged for H(P,P) == 0 and to > have P(P) not halt. Or you could just as well have arranged for H(P,P) > != 0 and have P(P) halt. [Olcott's theory] Mr Flibble Jul 10, 2021, 12:00:56 PM I agree with Olcott that a halt decider can NOT be part of that which is being decided (see [Strachey 1965]) which, if Olcott is correct, falsifies a collection of proofs (which I don't have the time to examine) which rely on that mistake. https://groups.google.com/g/comp.theory/c/6cEnndkkrKA/m/gRj0x9KOBgAJ To correct the pathological self reference(Olcott 2004) error the halt decider bases its halt status decision on the behavior its input while H merely observes this behavior as a pure simulator of this input. If you are dumber than a box of rocks you may fail to grasp this. > > You decided to be wrong twice. H does not compute any function of its > arguments, and H is wrong about the halting of the key computation. Oh > well... > > Is there a dog shelter near where you live? > -- Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." Einstein
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| From | Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-11 22:35 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <iEPGI.3257$0N5.2103@fx06.iad> |
| In reply to | #36144 |
On 7/11/21 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
> When we ask what Boolean value can a halt decider return to an input
> that changes its behavior to contradict this value we cannot answer this
> question because it is an incorrect type mismatch error question.
The problem is that this isn't the question of the Halting problem, but
of the design of a
>
> The answer is restricted to {true, false} thus excluding the correct
> answer of “neither” making the question itself incorrect. The TM / input
> pairs that “prove” the halting problem is undecidable have the same
> pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) error as the self-contradictory
> liar paradox.
\
Right, which proves that it is impossible to write a program to answer
the valid question, will P(I) when run halt or not, when that P is
allowed to use the algorithm of H within its algorithm.
>
> To eliminate this pathological feedback loop error we examine the
> behavior of the input with a pure simulator that has no effect
> what-so-ever on the behavior of the input.
INCORECT. You can't just change the rules to make something that is
ACTUALLY imposaible seem possible.
>
> As correct science requires the dependent variable (the halt status
> decision) must only have the independent variable (the behavior of the
> input) and be isolated from all other influences. Only when we do it
> this way do we get the correct halt status decision for the input.
WRONG Independent variable. The independent variable here is the Halt
Decider, as the input we are looking at is based on it. Remember the
bahavior of the input is strictly controlled by the Algorithm and the
inputs of the machine being given to the decider, and in the case of H^,
that algorith IS a function of the decider, so either you have made H as
FIXED quantity (and thus no arguments allowed postulating H doing
something that it doesn't actually do) or it is the independent varialbe.
Otherwise it is like computing the deriviative of x*F(x) and getting
just F(x) based on the idea that the derivative of k*x is k.
It is just flat wrong.
>
> Until the behavior of its input proves that it will never halt every H
> remains a pure simulator of this input.
Only if it actually PROVES that the input would never halt for the
actual H being used, which CAN and WILL abort its input.
You have just said that equivent of the derivative with respect to x of
x*sin(x) is sin(x) since the derivative of k*x is k.
WRONG.
>
> This single fact by itself proves that the behavior of H has no effect
> what-so-ever on its halt status decision. When H stops simulating its
> input the execution of the input has been suspended, this does not count
> as halting.
That simple statement show how little you understand logic.
>
> When the pure simulation of the machine description ⟨P⟩ of a machine P
> on its input I never halts we know that P(I) never halts.
>
> According to this criteria P(P) specifies a computation that never halts.
Which since even YOU have shown that if H does give the answer of
Non-Halting, that P(P) will halt when run as an independent machine, so
the logic must be wrong.
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| From | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-12 09:13 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <s9-dnbqNDpho0HH9nZ2dnUU7-f3NnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #36169 |
On 7/11/2021 11:35 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 7/11/21 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
>
>> When we ask what Boolean value can a halt decider return to an input
>> that changes its behavior to contradict this value we cannot answer this
>> question because it is an incorrect type mismatch error question.
>
> The problem is that this isn't the question of the Halting problem, but
> of the design of a
>>
>> The answer is restricted to {true, false} thus excluding the correct
>> answer of “neither” making the question itself incorrect. The TM / input
>> pairs that “prove” the halting problem is undecidable have the same
>> pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) error as the self-contradictory
>> liar paradox.
> \
> Right, which proves that it is impossible to write a program to answer
> the valid question, will P(I) when run halt or not, when that P is
> allowed to use the algorithm of H within its algorithm.
>>
>> To eliminate this pathological feedback loop error we examine the
>> behavior of the input with a pure simulator that has no effect
>> what-so-ever on the behavior of the input.
>
> INCORECT. You can't just change the rules to make something that is
> ACTUALLY imposaible seem possible.
>>
>> As correct science requires the dependent variable (the halt status
>> decision) must only have the independent variable (the behavior of the
>> input) and be isolated from all other influences. Only when we do it
>> this way do we get the correct halt status decision for the input.
>
> WRONG Independent variable. The independent variable here is the Halt
> Decider, as the input we are looking at is based on it. Remember the
> bahavior of the input is strictly controlled by the Algorithm and the
> inputs of the machine being given to the decider, and in the case of H^,
> that algorith IS a function of the decider, so either you have made H as
> FIXED quantity (and thus no arguments allowed postulating H doing
> something that it doesn't actually do) or it is the independent varialbe.
>
> Otherwise it is like computing the deriviative of x*F(x) and getting
> just F(x) based on the idea that the derivative of k*x is k.
>
> It is just flat wrong.
>
>>
>> Until the behavior of its input proves that it will never halt every H
>> remains a pure simulator of this input.
>
> Only if it actually PROVES that the input would never halt for the
> actual H being used, which CAN and WILL abort its input.
>
> You have just said that equivent of the derivative with respect to x of
> x*sin(x) is sin(x) since the derivative of k*x is k.
>
> WRONG.
>
>>
>> This single fact by itself proves that the behavior of H has no effect
>> what-so-ever on its halt status decision. When H stops simulating its
>> input the execution of the input has been suspended, this does not count
>> as halting.
>
> That simple statement show how little you understand logic.
>
>>
>> When the pure simulation of the machine description ⟨P⟩ of a machine P
>> on its input I never halts we know that P(I) never halts.
>>
>> According to this criteria P(P) specifies a computation that never halts.
>
> Which since even YOU have shown that if H does give the answer of
> Non-Halting, that P(P) will halt when run as an independent machine, so
> the logic must be wrong.
>
It does not halt it has its execution suspended.
If its execution was not suspended it would never halt.
--
Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre
minds." Einstein
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| From | André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-12 09:20 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <schmk4$jq6$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #36178 |
On 2021-07-12 08:13, olcott wrote: > On 7/11/2021 11:35 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >> On 7/11/21 9:30 AM, olcott wrote: >> >>> According to this criteria P(P) specifies a computation that never >>> halts. >> >> Which since even YOU have shown that if H does give the answer of >> Non-Halting, that P(P) will halt when run as an independent machine, so >> the logic must be wrong. >> > > It does not halt it has its execution suspended. > If its execution was not suspended it would never halt. The SIMULATION OF ITS INPUT is suspended. But when we ask whether P(P) halts we're not asking about the input to P(P). We're asking about P(P) proper. P(P) simulates its input, suspends the simulation of its input, and then HALTS. There isn't anything which can suspend the execution of the outermost P when it is run as an independent machine since it isn't being simulated. André -- To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail service.
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| From | Theperfect Parrotsstore <theperfectparrotsstore@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-12 08:23 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <c6fbf2a4-714e-4dce-b808-a74e04f932f8n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #36183 |
On Monday, 12 July 2021 at 16:20:39 UTC+1, André G. Isaak wrote: > On 2021-07-12 08:13, olcott wrote: > > On 7/11/2021 11:35 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > >> On 7/11/21 9:30 AM, olcott wrote: > >> > >>> According to this criteria P(P) specifies a computation that never > >>> halts. > >> > >> Which since even YOU have shown that if H does give the answer of > >> Non-Halting, that P(P) will halt when run as an independent machine, so > >> the logic must be wrong. > >> > > > > It does not halt it has its execution suspended. > > If its execution was not suspended it would never halt. > The SIMULATION OF ITS INPUT is suspended. But when we ask whether P(P) > halts we're not asking about the input to P(P). We're asking about P(P) > proper. > > P(P) simulates its input, suspends the simulation of its input, and then > HALTS. There isn't anything which can suspend the execution of the > outermost P when it is run as an independent machine since it isn't > being simulated. > > André > > -- > To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail > service. https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/ https://theperfectparrotstore.com/product/indian-ringneck-parakeet-for-sale/
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