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Groups > comp.theory > #135431 > unrolled thread
| Started by | olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-11-12 08:45 -0600 |
| Last post | 2025-12-07 13:17 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 449 — 21 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.theory
Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 08:45 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 11:57 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-12 18:12 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 12:31 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-12 18:46 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 13:11 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 13:33 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-12 20:17 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 14:45 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-13 02:25 +0000
D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 20:34 -0600
Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-13 02:42 +0000
Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 19:49 -0800
Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 22:36 -0600
Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-11-13 08:54 +0100
Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 00:21 -0800
How to handle pathological cases (was Re: ...) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-13 11:18 +0100
Re: How to handle pathological cases (was Re: ...) Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2025-11-13 12:14 +0000
Re: How to handle pathological cases (was Re: ...) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 07:06 -0800
Re: How to handle pathological cases (was Re: ...) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 09:28 -0600
Re: How to handle pathological cases (was Re: ...) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 09:15 -0600
Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 09:22 -0600
Any article that contains the string "olcott" is junk (Was: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2025-11-13 12:36 +0000
Re: Any article that contains the string "olcott" is junk (Was: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-13 13:49 +0100
Re: Any article that contains the string "olcott" is junk (Was: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2025-11-13 12:55 +0000
Re: Any article that contains the string "olcott" is junk (Was: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 09:26 -0600
Re: Any article that contains the string "olcott" is junk (Was: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 09:24 -0600
Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 22:53 -0600
Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-19 04:42 +0000
Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-12-14 20:59 -0500
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-12 20:49 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-13 11:18 +0200
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 10:06 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-13 19:04 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 15:18 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-14 10:53 +0200
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-14 08:33 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-14 14:56 +0000
Libelous statements that meet the burden of proof of reckless disregard of the truth olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-14 09:33 -0600
Re: Statements that are true, with full regard for the truth Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-14 15:52 +0000
Libelous statements that meet the burden of proof of reckless disregard of the truth olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-14 10:03 -0600
Re: Statements that are true, with full regard for the truth dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-14 09:05 -0800
Re: Statements that are true, with full regard for the truth Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-14 17:52 +0000
Re: Statements that are true, with full regard for the truth olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-14 12:16 -0600
Re: Statements that are true, with full regard for the truth dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-14 12:59 -0800
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-14 11:45 -0800
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-14 20:09 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-14 14:30 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-14 20:43 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-14 14:58 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-15 11:59 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 13:31 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-16 08:49 +0000
"true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 10:01 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-16 22:20 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 20:08 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-17 13:21 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 07:46 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-17 17:00 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 11:04 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-17 17:29 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 11:36 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-17 21:11 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 17:23 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-17 23:38 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 17:45 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-18 00:01 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 18:34 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-18 13:45 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 09:15 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-18 02:28 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 21:51 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-18 13:16 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-18 02:23 +0000
eric is not a crank dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 11:41 -0800
Re: eric is not a crank olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 13:44 -0600
Re: eric is not a crank Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-17 20:34 +0000
Re: eric is not a crank olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 14:45 -0600
Re: eric is not a crank dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 13:24 -0800
Re: eric is not a crank dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 13:30 -0800
Re: eric is not a crank olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 16:20 -0600
Re: eric is not a crank dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 15:03 -0800
Re: eric is not a crank olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 17:35 -0600
polcott agrees with the halting problem dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 16:06 -0800
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 18:31 -0600
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 19:43 -0500
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 18:46 -0800
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-18 03:07 +0000
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 19:10 -0800
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 19:36 -0800
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 21:18 -0800
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 15:10 -0800
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-18 17:40 -0800
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 19:46 -0600
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-19 17:17 +0000
help i'm stuck in a liar's paradox dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-19 10:43 -0800
Re: help i'm stuck in a liar's paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-19 18:48 +0000
Re: help i'm stuck in a liar's paradox dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-19 11:19 -0800
Re: help i'm stuck in a liar's paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-19 19:47 +0000
Re: help i'm stuck in a liar's paradox --- TXR and AWK olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 14:49 -0600
Re: help i'm stuck in a liar's paradox dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-19 21:01 -0800
Re: help i'm stuck in a liar's paradox olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 14:18 -0600
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 13:03 -0800
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-18 03:45 +0000
polcott agrees the halting problem is wrong olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 22:07 -0600
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-19 17:41 +0000
polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 12:37 -0600
Re: polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-19 20:55 +0000
Re: polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 15:05 -0600
Re: polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-19 21:41 +0000
Re: polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 21:12 -0600
Re: polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-20 04:42 +0000
Re: polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 22:57 -0600
Re: polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 13:22 -0800
Re: polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-20 22:10 +0000
Re: polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 14:56 -0800
polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 17:24 -0600
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 15:27 -0800
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-21 02:42 +0000
polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 20:50 -0600
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 19:10 -0800
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-21 04:12 +0000
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-21 04:13 +0000
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 20:23 -0800
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 22:41 -0600
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-21 05:04 +0000
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-21 09:19 -0600
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-21 17:29 +0000
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-21 12:15 -0600
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-21 18:22 +0000
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-21 19:18 +0000
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-21 13:33 -0600
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-21 22:05 +0000
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2025-11-21 23:14 -0600
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-11-22 05:39 +0000
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-22 07:05 -0600
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-22 07:00 +0000
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-22 07:26 -0600
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-22 19:29 +0000
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-22 13:44 -0600
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-22 20:07 +0000
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-22 14:13 -0600
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-23 04:09 +0000
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-23 04:07 +0000
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-23 04:20 +0000
Glossary of names in my termination analyzer system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-22 22:50 -0600
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-21 22:12 +0000
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-21 21:56 -0600
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-22 02:54 +0000
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-21 23:06 -0600
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-22 18:07 +0000
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-22 18:07 +0000
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-21 13:42 -0800
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-22 18:10 +0000
Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-22 19:36 +0000
polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect --- is libel against him olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 20:00 -0600
polcott agrees that the halting problem is incorrect in this way olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 21:47 -0600
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-18 23:47 +0000
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-19 00:13 +0000
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-19 00:57 +0000
polcott has shwn that the halting problem is incorrect olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 18:17 -0600
Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 18:24 -0600
Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-19 01:06 +0000
Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-19 01:07 +0000
Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 19:41 -0600
Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-19 18:20 +0000
Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 12:49 -0600
Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-19 19:18 +0000
Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 12:40 -0800
Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 12:44 -0800
Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-20 01:56 +0000
Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 20:19 -0600
Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 13:25 -0800
Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-20 22:05 +0000
Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 15:43 -0800
Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-19 21:03 +0000
Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 21:13 -0600
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-19 10:26 -0800
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-19 19:42 +0000
polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect --- quit lying about what I say olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 14:45 -0600
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 12:51 -0800
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2025-11-19 16:04 -0700
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 17:43 -0600
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-20 00:04 +0000
homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-19 18:08 -0800
Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-20 02:29 +0000
Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-19 18:49 -0800
Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-20 02:58 +0000
Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-19 19:53 -0800
Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-20 19:55 +0000
Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-20 12:03 -0800
Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-20 20:14 +0000
Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-20 20:24 +0000
Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-20 07:22 +0000
Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-20 20:53 +0000
Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-11-20 21:09 +0000
Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-20 13:35 -0800
Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-20 22:06 +0000
Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-20 13:50 -0800
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 18:10 -0800
Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 21:37 -0600
Re: eric is not a crank Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-17 23:28 +0000
Re: eric is not a crank "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 13:33 -0800
Re: eric is not a crank dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 13:44 -0800
Re: eric is not a crank olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 16:49 -0600
Re: eric is not a crank Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-17 22:39 +0000
Re: eric is not a crank Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-18 23:21 +0000
Re: eric is not a crank Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-18 23:36 +0000
Re: eric is not a crank olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 17:43 -0600
Re: eric is not a crank "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 16:06 -0800
Re: eric is not a crank Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-19 18:24 +0000
Re: eric is not a crank olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 17:40 -0600
the halting problem is founded in computer science dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 13:22 -0800
Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 16:48 -0600
Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-18 13:36 +0000
the halting problem is founded in computer science not math olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 08:50 -0600
Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science not math Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-18 20:02 +0000
Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science not math olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 14:12 -0600
Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-18 13:04 -0800
Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-19 18:36 +0000
Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-11-19 23:36 +0000
Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2025-11-19 17:53 -0600
Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-20 00:01 +0000
Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-20 00:01 +0000
Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 21:11 -0600
Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-20 20:05 +0000
Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-19 18:15 -0800
Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-11-20 23:15 +0000
Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-20 23:38 -0800
Making True(Language L, Expression E) always computable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-21 09:09 -0600
Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-11-22 03:02 +0000
halting problem counter example H/D pair is the Liar Paradox olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2025-11-21 21:34 -0600
Re: halting problem counter example H/D pair is the Liar Paradox Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-22 04:26 +0000
Re: halting problem counter example H/D pair is the Liar Paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-22 06:08 +0000
Re: halting problem counter example H/D pair is the Liar Paradox olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-22 07:16 -0600
Re: halting problem counter example H/D pair is the Liar Paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-22 16:45 +0000
Re: halting problem counter example H/D pair is the Liar Paradox olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-22 11:14 -0600
Re: halting problem counter example H/D pair is the Liar Paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-22 17:44 +0000
Re: halting problem counter example H/D pair is the Liar Paradox olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-22 11:48 -0600
Re: halting problem counter example H/D pair is the Liar Paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-22 18:05 +0000
Re: halting problem counter example H/D pair is the Liar Paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-23 04:13 +0000
Re: halting problem counter example H/D pair is the Liar Paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-23 04:11 +0000
Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-21 20:14 -0800
Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-19 18:25 -0800
Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-20 07:46 +0000
"great now there's n+1 formal systems" reports dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-20 02:24 -0800
Re: "great now there's n+1 formal systems" reports Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-20 14:41 +0000
Re: "great now there's n+1 formal systems" reports dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-20 12:03 -0800
Re: "great now there's n+1 formal systems" reports Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-20 20:39 +0000
Re: "great now there's n+1 formal systems" reports dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-21 10:59 -0800
Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-11-20 23:17 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-17 21:41 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 13:50 -0800
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-17 22:15 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-17 22:45 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-17 22:54 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-17 23:05 +0000
The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 16:59 -0600
Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-17 23:22 +0000
Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-18 06:40 +0000
Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-19 01:03 +0000
Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 19:36 -0600
Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-19 18:51 +0000
Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 14:22 -0600
Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-19 20:55 +0000
Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 21:24 -0600
Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-20 04:46 +0000
Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 22:58 -0600
Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-20 08:06 +0000
Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-22 08:12 -0600
Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-22 10:15 -0500
Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-22 18:42 +0000
Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-22 13:06 -0600
Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-20 20:49 +0000
Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-21 13:50 -0600
Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-21 22:05 +0000
Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-19 02:47 +0000
Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 21:04 -0600
Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-21 01:14 +0000
Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-21 01:28 +0000
Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 22:00 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-17 22:59 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 15:09 -0800
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-17 23:31 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 17:39 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-17 23:48 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 16:00 -0800
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 18:07 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-18 00:19 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 18:58 -0800
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 21:40 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-18 11:02 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 17:36 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-18 06:48 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-17 22:41 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 15:10 -0800
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-17 23:33 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 16:04 -0800
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 18:26 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-18 02:16 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 19:02 -0800
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 21:43 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-18 12:57 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-18 12:52 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 16:54 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-17 20:51 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 17:20 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-17 23:44 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 22:44 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-18 06:40 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 08:04 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-18 21:58 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 16:56 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 17:04 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 07:52 -0600
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-17 16:01 +0000
Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 10:29 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-16 18:55 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-16 21:43 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 18:48 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-17 04:09 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 13:24 -0800
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 09:38 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 12:59 -0800
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 05:28 +0800
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-27 00:44 -0800
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-27 19:37 +0800
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-16 09:32 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 13:11 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 13:03 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 14:39 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-15 06:43 -0800
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 15:29 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 09:41 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 16:32 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 11:03 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 17:24 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 11:38 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 18:06 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 12:50 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 03:30 +0800
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 13:55 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 04:04 +0800
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 14:14 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 04:25 +0800
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 14:48 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 21:55 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 16:18 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 13:05 -0800
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-15 11:56 +0200
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 09:51 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 16:35 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 11:05 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 17:27 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 11:40 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 18:08 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 12:53 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 20:31 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 14:55 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 22:02 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 22:54 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 23:30 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 17:32 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-16 00:10 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-16 18:44 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 18:41 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 17:22 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-16 01:07 +0000
Rejecting expressions of formal language having infinite loops --- G ↔ ¬Prov(⌜G⌝) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 19:29 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having infinite loops --- G ↔ ¬Prov(⌜G⌝) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-16 19:11 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having infinite loops --- G ↔ ¬Prov(⌜G⌝) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 18:52 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having infinite loops --- G ↔ ¬Prov(⌜G⌝) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-17 01:45 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having infinite loops --- G ↔ ¬Prov(⌜G⌝) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 20:13 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having infinite loops --- G ↔ ¬Prov(⌜G⌝) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-17 03:41 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having infinite loops --- G ↔ ¬Prov(⌜G⌝) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 21:50 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having infinite loops --- G ↔ ¬Prov(⌜G⌝) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-17 04:04 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-16 10:55 +0200
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 14:37 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-17 11:11 +0200
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 07:44 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-18 11:26 +0200
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 09:51 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-19 11:53 +0200
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 07:02 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-19 18:13 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-20 10:08 +0200
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 13:27 -0800
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-12 18:39 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 12:52 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-13 02:36 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 20:57 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-13 03:22 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 22:43 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-13 08:44 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 09:38 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-13 18:57 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-11-16 15:45 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-14 00:09 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 18:45 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-14 01:02 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 20:29 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-14 13:09 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-14 07:42 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-14 01:14 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 20:33 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-14 10:45 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-13 02:22 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 20:32 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-13 02:38 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 22:48 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-11-13 04:50 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 23:00 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 00:16 -0800
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-13 11:05 +0200
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 10:00 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-14 11:01 +0200
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-14 08:42 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-26 12:30 +0200
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-26 09:27 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-26 19:46 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-26 14:07 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-11-26 21:00 -0500
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-12-01 14:45 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-12-01 09:18 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-27 10:22 +0200
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-27 00:39 -0800
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-27 10:20 +0200
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-27 09:49 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-11-27 12:27 -0500
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-28 10:45 +0200
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-28 09:22 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-29 12:28 +0200
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-14 00:56 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-14 11:09 +0200
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-14 13:20 +0000
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-14 08:49 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-26 12:17 +0200
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-26 09:20 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-11-26 10:25 -0500
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-27 10:17 +0200
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-27 09:48 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-28 10:40 +0200
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-28 09:21 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-11-28 11:03 -0500
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-29 12:31 +0200
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-29 12:01 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-12-01 12:18 +0200
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-12-01 06:45 -0600
Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-12-07 13:17 +0200
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| From | olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-11-17 16:20 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: eric is not a crank |
| Message-ID | <10fg73e$15vqj$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #135893 |
On 11/17/2025 3:24 PM, dart200 wrote: > On 11/17/25 12:34 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >> dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote: >>> On 11/17/25 9:29 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> On 11/17/2025 11:00 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> On 11/17/2025 7:21 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >> >> [ .... ] >> >>>>>>>> I put it to you again, that no tenured professor has ever been >>>>>>>> sacked for this reason. >> >>>>>>> https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/PHPhistory.pdf >> >>>>>> What's that got to do with anything? There is no indication of >>>>>> anybody being sacked in that article. Nor in the article cited in >>>>>> the other reply you made to my last post. >> >> >>>>> You have to read it all the way through. >> >>>> I have done now, more or less. Nobody got sacked. >> >>> uhhh ... not that carefully >> >> I've read Stoddart's paper through pretty thoroughly, and it's full of >> holes. I'm intending to reply to one of PO's posts with details. >> >>>>> What strikes me most about these reviews is that >>>>> they do not point out any error in my arguments >>>>> and proofs. They point out, with accompanying insults, >>>>> that I am making a claim that is contrary to the >>>>> current orthodoxy. I know that. They know that Turing >>>>> proved that the Halting Problem is incomputable; it's >>>>> in all the textbooks. So they know from my paper's >>>>> abstract that the paper is wrong. So they feel no >>>>> need to read my arguments carefully. >> >>>> That sounds like another crank. Some of the reviewers did indeed point >> >>> bruh eric is by no means a crank: https://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~hehner >> >> He may not be a crank when writing about computer science. But he's >> seemingly out of his depth with mathematics. >> >>> because u don't read things let me bullet point: >>> - comp sci phd in 1974 >>> - full prof in 1983 >>> - chair in software engineering in 2001 >>> - emeritus in 2012 till now >>> - this is all university of toronto too, big name in the field >> >>> ...you didn't even make it thru the 1st paragraph coherent where in 1989 >>> his paper was rejected by a paper that he was literally an editor of... >> >> I did. >> >>> the guy is actually personal friends with geoffrey hinton >> >> Who? What's that got to do with anything. >> >>> if he's a crank then we're all fucking cranks bro >> >> No. I'm suggesting he's a mathematics crank, but capable in computer >> science. The concept of somebody being a crank in a restricted area, but >> competent in their own speciality just occurred to me now. > > set theory isn't used to justify the halting problem, it's justified > within comp sci using turing machines as the axiomatic base (read > turing's paper, specifically §8) > > the halting problem, or more broadly semantic paradoxes (rice's theorem) > is a comp sci problem, not a set theory problem > Turing machine deciders only compute a mapping from their [finite string] inputs to an accept or reject state on the basis that this [finite string] input specifies or fails to specify a semantic or syntactic property. The mistake that even Rice makes is simply presuming that a finite string input DD to the same decider HHH that DD calls has the same behavior as the input to a decider HHH1 that this input does not call. > if anything turing using the comp sci problem to justify the set theory > result by godel, and that's why they are thought to be equivalent. > > eric is not cranking out of his league > >> >>>> out errors. Note the way he says "current orthodoxy", as though >>>> mathematics were a question of fashion. It's not. I would bet a large >>>> amount of money on him not having a degree in mathematics, much like >>>> yourself. Perhaps one or more of his reviewers did. The Halting >>>> Theorem >>>> is wholly a theorem of mathematics, and only secondarily about computer >>>> science. >> >>>> One can understand the reviewers not wanting to get into the sort of >>>> fruitless discussions which happen here. > > -- Copyright 2025 Olcott My 28 year goal has been to make "true on the basis of meaning" computable.
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| From | dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-11-17 15:03 -0800 |
| Subject | Re: eric is not a crank |
| Message-ID | <10fg9kd$16gsc$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #135901 |
On 11/17/25 2:20 PM, olcott wrote: > On 11/17/2025 3:24 PM, dart200 wrote: >> On 11/17/25 12:34 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>> dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote: >>>> On 11/17/25 9:29 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> On 11/17/2025 11:00 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>>>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> On 11/17/2025 7:21 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>> >>> [ .... ] >>> >>>>>>>>> I put it to you again, that no tenured professor has ever been >>>>>>>>> sacked for this reason. >>> >>>>>>>> https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/PHPhistory.pdf >>> >>>>>>> What's that got to do with anything? There is no indication of >>>>>>> anybody being sacked in that article. Nor in the article cited in >>>>>>> the other reply you made to my last post. >>> >>> >>>>>> You have to read it all the way through. >>> >>>>> I have done now, more or less. Nobody got sacked. >>> >>>> uhhh ... not that carefully >>> >>> I've read Stoddart's paper through pretty thoroughly, and it's full of >>> holes. I'm intending to reply to one of PO's posts with details. >>> >>>>>> What strikes me most about these reviews is that >>>>>> they do not point out any error in my arguments >>>>>> and proofs. They point out, with accompanying insults, >>>>>> that I am making a claim that is contrary to the >>>>>> current orthodoxy. I know that. They know that Turing >>>>>> proved that the Halting Problem is incomputable; it's >>>>>> in all the textbooks. So they know from my paper's >>>>>> abstract that the paper is wrong. So they feel no >>>>>> need to read my arguments carefully. >>> >>>>> That sounds like another crank. Some of the reviewers did indeed >>>>> point >>> >>>> bruh eric is by no means a crank: https://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~hehner >>> >>> He may not be a crank when writing about computer science. But he's >>> seemingly out of his depth with mathematics. >>> >>>> because u don't read things let me bullet point: >>>> - comp sci phd in 1974 >>>> - full prof in 1983 >>>> - chair in software engineering in 2001 >>>> - emeritus in 2012 till now >>>> - this is all university of toronto too, big name in the field >>> >>>> ...you didn't even make it thru the 1st paragraph coherent where in >>>> 1989 >>>> his paper was rejected by a paper that he was literally an editor of... >>> >>> I did. >>> >>>> the guy is actually personal friends with geoffrey hinton >>> >>> Who? What's that got to do with anything. >>> >>>> if he's a crank then we're all fucking cranks bro >>> >>> No. I'm suggesting he's a mathematics crank, but capable in computer >>> science. The concept of somebody being a crank in a restricted area, >>> but >>> competent in their own speciality just occurred to me now. >> >> set theory isn't used to justify the halting problem, it's justified >> within comp sci using turing machines as the axiomatic base (read >> turing's paper, specifically §8) >> >> the halting problem, or more broadly semantic paradoxes (rice's >> theorem) is a comp sci problem, not a set theory problem >> > > Turing machine deciders only compute a mapping from > their [finite string] inputs to an accept or reject > state on the basis that this [finite string] input > specifies or fails to specify a semantic or syntactic > property. yes polcott, everyone recognizes that ur program is computing some mapping... it's just not the mapping that the halting problem is concerned about > > The mistake that even Rice makes is simply presuming > that a finite string input DD to the same decider HHH > that DD calls has the same behavior as the input to a > decider HHH1 that this input does not call. > >> if anything turing using the comp sci problem to justify the set >> theory result by godel, and that's why they are thought to be equivalent. >> >> eric is not cranking out of his league >> >>> >>>>> out errors. Note the way he says "current orthodoxy", as though >>>>> mathematics were a question of fashion. It's not. I would bet a >>>>> large >>>>> amount of money on him not having a degree in mathematics, much like >>>>> yourself. Perhaps one or more of his reviewers did. The Halting >>>>> Theorem >>>>> is wholly a theorem of mathematics, and only secondarily about >>>>> computer >>>>> science. >>> >>>>> One can understand the reviewers not wanting to get into the sort of >>>>> fruitless discussions which happen here. >> >> > > -- a burnt out swe investigating into why our tooling doesn't involve basic semantic proofs like halting analysis please excuse my pseudo-pyscript, ~ nick
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| From | olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-11-17 17:35 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: eric is not a crank |
| Message-ID | <10fgbfp$17422$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #135916 |
On 11/17/2025 5:03 PM, dart200 wrote: > On 11/17/25 2:20 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 11/17/2025 3:24 PM, dart200 wrote: >>> On 11/17/25 12:34 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>>> dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote: >>>>> On 11/17/25 9:29 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> On 11/17/2025 11:00 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>>>>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 11/17/2025 7:21 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>>> >>>> [ .... ] >>>> >>>>>>>>>> I put it to you again, that no tenured professor has ever been >>>>>>>>>> sacked for this reason. >>>> >>>>>>>>> https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/PHPhistory.pdf >>>> >>>>>>>> What's that got to do with anything? There is no indication of >>>>>>>> anybody being sacked in that article. Nor in the article cited in >>>>>>>> the other reply you made to my last post. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> You have to read it all the way through. >>>> >>>>>> I have done now, more or less. Nobody got sacked. >>>> >>>>> uhhh ... not that carefully >>>> >>>> I've read Stoddart's paper through pretty thoroughly, and it's full of >>>> holes. I'm intending to reply to one of PO's posts with details. >>>> >>>>>>> What strikes me most about these reviews is that >>>>>>> they do not point out any error in my arguments >>>>>>> and proofs. They point out, with accompanying insults, >>>>>>> that I am making a claim that is contrary to the >>>>>>> current orthodoxy. I know that. They know that Turing >>>>>>> proved that the Halting Problem is incomputable; it's >>>>>>> in all the textbooks. So they know from my paper's >>>>>>> abstract that the paper is wrong. So they feel no >>>>>>> need to read my arguments carefully. >>>> >>>>>> That sounds like another crank. Some of the reviewers did indeed >>>>>> point >>>> >>>>> bruh eric is by no means a crank: https://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~hehner >>>> >>>> He may not be a crank when writing about computer science. But he's >>>> seemingly out of his depth with mathematics. >>>> >>>>> because u don't read things let me bullet point: >>>>> - comp sci phd in 1974 >>>>> - full prof in 1983 >>>>> - chair in software engineering in 2001 >>>>> - emeritus in 2012 till now >>>>> - this is all university of toronto too, big name in the field >>>> >>>>> ...you didn't even make it thru the 1st paragraph coherent where in >>>>> 1989 >>>>> his paper was rejected by a paper that he was literally an editor >>>>> of... >>>> >>>> I did. >>>> >>>>> the guy is actually personal friends with geoffrey hinton >>>> >>>> Who? What's that got to do with anything. >>>> >>>>> if he's a crank then we're all fucking cranks bro >>>> >>>> No. I'm suggesting he's a mathematics crank, but capable in computer >>>> science. The concept of somebody being a crank in a restricted >>>> area, but >>>> competent in their own speciality just occurred to me now. >>> >>> set theory isn't used to justify the halting problem, it's justified >>> within comp sci using turing machines as the axiomatic base (read >>> turing's paper, specifically §8) >>> >>> the halting problem, or more broadly semantic paradoxes (rice's >>> theorem) is a comp sci problem, not a set theory problem >>> >> >> Turing machine deciders only compute a mapping from >> their [finite string] inputs to an accept or reject >> state on the basis that this [finite string] input >> specifies or fails to specify a semantic or syntactic >> property. > > yes polcott, everyone recognizes that ur program is computing some > mapping... > The halting problem is requiring deciders to compute information that is not contained in their input. If you worked on this for 22 years you might have noticed this. I only noticed this in the last year. > it's just not the mapping that the halting problem is concerned about > >> >> The mistake that even Rice makes is simply presuming >> that a finite string input DD to the same decider HHH >> that DD calls has the same behavior as the input to a >> decider HHH1 that this input does not call. >> >>> if anything turing using the comp sci problem to justify the set >>> theory result by godel, and that's why they are thought to be >>> equivalent. >>> >>> eric is not cranking out of his league >>> >>>> >>>>>> out errors. Note the way he says "current orthodoxy", as though >>>>>> mathematics were a question of fashion. It's not. I would bet a >>>>>> large >>>>>> amount of money on him not having a degree in mathematics, much like >>>>>> yourself. Perhaps one or more of his reviewers did. The Halting >>>>>> Theorem >>>>>> is wholly a theorem of mathematics, and only secondarily about >>>>>> computer >>>>>> science. >>>> >>>>>> One can understand the reviewers not wanting to get into the sort of >>>>>> fruitless discussions which happen here. >>> >>> >> >> > > -- Copyright 2025 Olcott My 28 year goal has been to make "true on the basis of meaning" computable.
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| From | dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-11-17 16:06 -0800 |
| Subject | polcott agrees with the halting problem |
| Message-ID | <10fgdah$16skb$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #135926 |
On 11/17/25 3:35 PM, olcott wrote: > The halting problem is requiring deciders to > compute information that is not contained in > their input. ur agreeing with turing and the halting problem: one cannot compute whether a machine halts or not from the string describing the machine -- a burnt out swe investigating into why our tooling doesn't involve basic semantic proofs like halting analysis please excuse my pseudo-pyscript, ~ nick
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| From | olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-11-17 18:31 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem |
| Message-ID | <10fgepo$180g1$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #135937 |
On 11/17/2025 6:06 PM, dart200 wrote: > On 11/17/25 3:35 PM, olcott wrote: >> The halting problem is requiring deciders to >> compute information that is not contained in >> their input. > > ur agreeing with turing and the halting problem: > > one cannot compute whether a machine halts or not from the string > describing the machine > That the halting problem limits computation is like this very extreme example: Predict who the next president of the United States will be entirely on the basis of √2 (square root of 2). That cannot be derived from the input. -- Copyright 2025 Olcott My 28 year goal has been to make "true on the basis of meaning" computable.
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| From | dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-11-17 19:43 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem |
| Message-ID | <10fgff7$18211$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #135941 |
On 11/17/2025 7:31 PM, olcott wrote: > On 11/17/2025 6:06 PM, dart200 wrote: >> On 11/17/25 3:35 PM, olcott wrote: >>> The halting problem is requiring deciders to >>> compute information that is not contained in >>> their input. >> >> ur agreeing with turing and the halting problem: >> >> one cannot compute whether a machine halts or not from the string >> describing the machine >> > > That the halting problem limits computation > is like this very extreme example: > > Predict who the next president of the United States > will be entirely on the basis of √2 (square root of 2). > That cannot be derived from the input. > No, it's more like this: Compute the product of X and Y but only using the single step of X + Y.
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| From | dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-11-17 18:46 -0800 |
| Subject | Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem |
| Message-ID | <10fgmm2$16skb$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #135941 |
On 11/17/25 4:31 PM, olcott wrote: > On 11/17/2025 6:06 PM, dart200 wrote: >> On 11/17/25 3:35 PM, olcott wrote: >>> The halting problem is requiring deciders to >>> compute information that is not contained in >>> their input. >> >> ur agreeing with turing and the halting problem: >> >> one cannot compute whether a machine halts or not from the string >> describing the machine >> > > That the halting problem limits computation > is like this very extreme example: > > Predict who the next president of the United States > will be entirely on the basis of √2 (square root of 2). > That cannot be derived from the input. bruh, ur agreeing with the halting problem: one cannot take the string describing the machine, and use it to compute whether the machine described halts the only difference between ur claim here and the proofs is the why -- a burnt out swe investigating into why our tooling doesn't involve basic semantic proofs like halting analysis please excuse my pseudo-pyscript, ~ nick
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| From | Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-11-18 03:07 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem |
| Message-ID | <20251117190515.406@kylheku.com> |
| In reply to | #135949 |
On 2025-11-18, dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote: > On 11/17/25 4:31 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 11/17/2025 6:06 PM, dart200 wrote: >>> On 11/17/25 3:35 PM, olcott wrote: >>>> The halting problem is requiring deciders to >>>> compute information that is not contained in >>>> their input. >>> >>> ur agreeing with turing and the halting problem: >>> >>> one cannot compute whether a machine halts or not from the string >>> describing the machine >>> >> >> That the halting problem limits computation >> is like this very extreme example: >> >> Predict who the next president of the United States >> will be entirely on the basis of √2 (square root of 2). >> That cannot be derived from the input. > > bruh, ur agreeing with the halting problem: > > one cannot take the string describing the machine, and use it to compute > whether the machine described halts But that isn't true; you certainly can do that. Just not using one unified algorithm that works for absolutely all such strings. When it /does/ work, it's certainly not based on any input other than the string. -- TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca
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| From | dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-11-17 19:10 -0800 |
| Subject | Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem |
| Message-ID | <10fgo31$16skb$7@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #135952 |
On 11/17/25 7:07 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote: > On 2025-11-18, dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote: >> On 11/17/25 4:31 PM, olcott wrote: >>> On 11/17/2025 6:06 PM, dart200 wrote: >>>> On 11/17/25 3:35 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>> The halting problem is requiring deciders to >>>>> compute information that is not contained in >>>>> their input. >>>> >>>> ur agreeing with turing and the halting problem: >>>> >>>> one cannot compute whether a machine halts or not from the string >>>> describing the machine >>>> >>> >>> That the halting problem limits computation >>> is like this very extreme example: >>> >>> Predict who the next president of the United States >>> will be entirely on the basis of √2 (square root of 2). >>> That cannot be derived from the input. >> >> bruh, ur agreeing with the halting problem: >> >> one cannot take the string describing the machine, and use it to compute >> whether the machine described halts > > But that isn't true; you certainly can do that. Just not using one > unified algorithm that works for absolutely all such strings. > > When it /does/ work, it's certainly not based on any input other than > the string. yes i meant generally you also can't compute generally whether you can or cannot compute whether a an machine description halts or not -- a burnt out swe investigating into why our tooling doesn't involve basic semantic proofs like halting analysis please excuse my pseudo-pyscript, ~ nick
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| From | "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-11-17 19:36 -0800 |
| Subject | Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem |
| Message-ID | <10fgpja$1aakr$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #135953 |
On 11/17/2025 7:10 PM, dart200 wrote: > On 11/17/25 7:07 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote: >> On 2025-11-18, dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote: >>> On 11/17/25 4:31 PM, olcott wrote: >>>> On 11/17/2025 6:06 PM, dart200 wrote: >>>>> On 11/17/25 3:35 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>> The halting problem is requiring deciders to >>>>>> compute information that is not contained in >>>>>> their input. >>>>> >>>>> ur agreeing with turing and the halting problem: >>>>> >>>>> one cannot compute whether a machine halts or not from the string >>>>> describing the machine >>>>> >>>> >>>> That the halting problem limits computation >>>> is like this very extreme example: >>>> >>>> Predict who the next president of the United States >>>> will be entirely on the basis of √2 (square root of 2). >>>> That cannot be derived from the input. >>> >>> bruh, ur agreeing with the halting problem: >>> >>> one cannot take the string describing the machine, and use it to compute >>> whether the machine described halts >> >> But that isn't true; you certainly can do that. Just not using one >> unified algorithm that works for absolutely all such strings. >> >> When it /does/ work, it's certainly not based on any input other than >> the string. > > yes i meant generally > > you also can't compute generally whether you can or cannot compute > whether a an machine description halts or not > Didn't you suggest you have a solution to the halting problem using reflection?
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| From | dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-11-17 21:18 -0800 |
| Subject | Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem |
| Message-ID | <10fgvjd$1bcfs$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #135954 |
On 11/17/25 7:36 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote: > On 11/17/2025 7:10 PM, dart200 wrote: >> On 11/17/25 7:07 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote: >>> On 2025-11-18, dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote: >>>> On 11/17/25 4:31 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>> On 11/17/2025 6:06 PM, dart200 wrote: >>>>>> On 11/17/25 3:35 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>> The halting problem is requiring deciders to >>>>>>> compute information that is not contained in >>>>>>> their input. >>>>>> >>>>>> ur agreeing with turing and the halting problem: >>>>>> >>>>>> one cannot compute whether a machine halts or not from the string >>>>>> describing the machine >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> That the halting problem limits computation >>>>> is like this very extreme example: >>>>> >>>>> Predict who the next president of the United States >>>>> will be entirely on the basis of √2 (square root of 2). >>>>> That cannot be derived from the input. >>>> >>>> bruh, ur agreeing with the halting problem: >>>> >>>> one cannot take the string describing the machine, and use it to >>>> compute >>>> whether the machine described halts >>> >>> But that isn't true; you certainly can do that. Just not using one >>> unified algorithm that works for absolutely all such strings. >>> >>> When it /does/ work, it's certainly not based on any input other than >>> the string. >> >> yes i meant generally >> >> you also can't compute generally whether you can or cannot compute >> whether a an machine description halts or not >> > > Didn't you suggest you have a solution to the halting problem using > reflection? yes, i was speaking to the consensus understanding in what you've quoted -- a burnt out swe investigating into why our tooling doesn't involve basic semantic proofs like halting analysis please excuse my pseudo-pyscript, ~ nick
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| From | "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-11-18 15:10 -0800 |
| Subject | Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem |
| Message-ID | <10fiudi$1stcl$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #135963 |
On 11/17/2025 9:18 PM, dart200 wrote: > On 11/17/25 7:36 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote: >> On 11/17/2025 7:10 PM, dart200 wrote: >>> On 11/17/25 7:07 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote: >>>> On 2025-11-18, dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote: >>>>> On 11/17/25 4:31 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>> On 11/17/2025 6:06 PM, dart200 wrote: >>>>>>> On 11/17/25 3:35 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>> The halting problem is requiring deciders to >>>>>>>> compute information that is not contained in >>>>>>>> their input. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ur agreeing with turing and the halting problem: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> one cannot compute whether a machine halts or not from the string >>>>>>> describing the machine >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> That the halting problem limits computation >>>>>> is like this very extreme example: >>>>>> >>>>>> Predict who the next president of the United States >>>>>> will be entirely on the basis of √2 (square root of 2). >>>>>> That cannot be derived from the input. >>>>> >>>>> bruh, ur agreeing with the halting problem: >>>>> >>>>> one cannot take the string describing the machine, and use it to >>>>> compute >>>>> whether the machine described halts >>>> >>>> But that isn't true; you certainly can do that. Just not using one >>>> unified algorithm that works for absolutely all such strings. >>>> >>>> When it /does/ work, it's certainly not based on any input other than >>>> the string. >>> >>> yes i meant generally >>> >>> you also can't compute generally whether you can or cannot compute >>> whether a an machine description halts or not >>> >> >> Didn't you suggest you have a solution to the halting problem using >> reflection? > > yes, i was speaking to the consensus understanding in what you've quoted > Okay. Well, 100% per-path coverage is one way we can say that DD halts _and_ does not halt. I made the fuzzer for Olcotts DD for fun. Its NOT a solution to the halting problem. Actually, he raised some red flags in my mind when he tried to tell me that BASIC cannot handle recursion... Programming BASIC brings back memories of when I was a little kid. Actually, you should be able to mock up your reflection system. Have you made any headway?
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| From | dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-11-18 17:40 -0800 |
| Subject | Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem |
| Message-ID | <10fj75p$1udbr$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #136021 |
On 11/18/25 3:10 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote: > On 11/17/2025 9:18 PM, dart200 wrote: >> On 11/17/25 7:36 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote: >>> On 11/17/2025 7:10 PM, dart200 wrote: >>>> On 11/17/25 7:07 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote: >>>>> On 2025-11-18, dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> On 11/17/25 4:31 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>> On 11/17/2025 6:06 PM, dart200 wrote: >>>>>>>> On 11/17/25 3:35 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>> The halting problem is requiring deciders to >>>>>>>>> compute information that is not contained in >>>>>>>>> their input. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ur agreeing with turing and the halting problem: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> one cannot compute whether a machine halts or not from the string >>>>>>>> describing the machine >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That the halting problem limits computation >>>>>>> is like this very extreme example: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Predict who the next president of the United States >>>>>>> will be entirely on the basis of √2 (square root of 2). >>>>>>> That cannot be derived from the input. >>>>>> >>>>>> bruh, ur agreeing with the halting problem: >>>>>> >>>>>> one cannot take the string describing the machine, and use it to >>>>>> compute >>>>>> whether the machine described halts >>>>> >>>>> But that isn't true; you certainly can do that. Just not using one >>>>> unified algorithm that works for absolutely all such strings. >>>>> >>>>> When it /does/ work, it's certainly not based on any input other than >>>>> the string. >>>> >>>> yes i meant generally >>>> >>>> you also can't compute generally whether you can or cannot compute >>>> whether a an machine description halts or not >>>> >>> >>> Didn't you suggest you have a solution to the halting problem using >>> reflection? >> >> yes, i was speaking to the consensus understanding in what you've quoted >> > > Okay. Well, 100% per-path coverage is one way we can say that DD halts > _and_ does not halt. I made the fuzzer for Olcotts DD for fun. Its NOT a > solution to the halting problem. Actually, he raised some red flags in > my mind when he tried to tell me that BASIC cannot handle recursion... depends on which BASIC tho, eh? > Programming BASIC brings back memories of when I was a little kid. > > Actually, you should be able to mock up your reflection system. Have you > made any headway? not at all i'm working on the logical consistency of the theory, which is going to be far simpler than actual implementation i'm currently a bit stumped on dealing with a possible a halting paradox constructed within RTMs, using an RTM simulating a TM simulating an RTM. this chain similarly mechanically cuts off the required information to avoid a paradox, kinda like a TM alone. not fully confident it's a problem or not i may write a post on it -- a burnt out swe investigating into why our tooling doesn't involve basic semantic proofs like halting analysis please excuse my pseudo-pyscript, ~ nick
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| From | olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-11-18 19:46 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem |
| Message-ID | <10fj7ie$1v52j$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #136039 |
On 11/18/2025 7:40 PM, dart200 wrote: > On 11/18/25 3:10 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote: >> On 11/17/2025 9:18 PM, dart200 wrote: >>> On 11/17/25 7:36 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote: >>>> On 11/17/2025 7:10 PM, dart200 wrote: >>>>> On 11/17/25 7:07 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote: >>>>>> On 2025-11-18, dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>> On 11/17/25 4:31 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>> On 11/17/2025 6:06 PM, dart200 wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 11/17/25 3:35 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>> The halting problem is requiring deciders to >>>>>>>>>> compute information that is not contained in >>>>>>>>>> their input. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ur agreeing with turing and the halting problem: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> one cannot compute whether a machine halts or not from the string >>>>>>>>> describing the machine >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That the halting problem limits computation >>>>>>>> is like this very extreme example: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Predict who the next president of the United States >>>>>>>> will be entirely on the basis of √2 (square root of 2). >>>>>>>> That cannot be derived from the input. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> bruh, ur agreeing with the halting problem: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> one cannot take the string describing the machine, and use it to >>>>>>> compute >>>>>>> whether the machine described halts >>>>>> >>>>>> But that isn't true; you certainly can do that. Just not using one >>>>>> unified algorithm that works for absolutely all such strings. >>>>>> >>>>>> When it /does/ work, it's certainly not based on any input other than >>>>>> the string. >>>>> >>>>> yes i meant generally >>>>> >>>>> you also can't compute generally whether you can or cannot compute >>>>> whether a an machine description halts or not >>>>> >>>> >>>> Didn't you suggest you have a solution to the halting problem using >>>> reflection? >>> >>> yes, i was speaking to the consensus understanding in what you've quoted >>> >> >> Okay. Well, 100% per-path coverage is one way we can say that DD halts >> _and_ does not halt. I made the fuzzer for Olcotts DD for fun. Its NOT >> a solution to the halting problem. Actually, he raised some red flags >> in my mind when he tried to tell me that BASIC cannot handle recursion... > > depends on which BASIC tho, eh? > >> Programming BASIC brings back memories of when I was a little kid. >> >> Actually, you should be able to mock up your reflection system. Have >> you made any headway? > > not at all > > i'm working on the logical consistency of the theory, which is going to > be far simpler than actual implementation > > i'm currently a bit stumped on dealing with a possible a halting paradox > constructed within RTMs, using an RTM simulating a TM simulating an RTM. > this chain similarly mechanically cuts off the required information to > avoid a paradox, kinda like a TM alone. not fully confident it's a > problem or not > > i may write a post on it > When input DD does the opposite of whatever value HHH determines then the HHH/DD combination is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise. In this case the correct response to to reject this input as semantically ill-formed. Can Carol correctly answer “no” to this (yes/no) question? E C R Hehner. Objective and Subjective Specifications WST Workshop on Termination, Oxford. 2018 July 18. See https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/OSS.pdf -- Copyright 2025 Olcott My 28 year goal has been to make "true on the basis of meaning" computable.
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| From | Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-11-19 17:17 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem |
| Message-ID | <10fku3m$2d0vq$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #136039 |
On 19/11/2025 01:40, dart200 wrote: > i'm currently a bit stumped on dealing with a possible a halting paradox > constructed within RTMs, using an RTM simulating a TM simulating an RTM. > this chain similarly mechanically cuts off the required information to > avoid a paradox, kinda like a TM alone. not fully confident it's a > problem or not It sounds equivalent to problems of security wrt. leaky sandboxes. Interesting stuff. Maybe valuable too. -- Tristan Wibberley The message body is Copyright (C) 2025 Tristan Wibberley except citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that you may, of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to promote my greatness and general superiority without misrepresentation of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT train any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI that will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.
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| From | dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-11-19 10:43 -0800 |
| Subject | help i'm stuck in a liar's paradox |
| Message-ID | <10fl33s$2do5h$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #136089 |
On 11/19/25 9:17 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
> On 19/11/2025 01:40, dart200 wrote:
>
>> i'm currently a bit stumped on dealing with a possible a halting paradox
>> constructed within RTMs, using an RTM simulating a TM simulating an RTM.
>> this chain similarly mechanically cuts off the required information to
>> avoid a paradox, kinda like a TM alone. not fully confident it's a
>> problem or not
>
> It sounds equivalent to problems of security wrt. leaky sandboxes.
> Interesting stuff. Maybe valuable too.
i'm actually pretty distraught over this rn. who's gunna care if all i
did was reframe the halting problem?? i'm stuck on quite literally a
liar's paradox, with emphasis on a clear lie taking place
specifically: the simulated TM simulating an RTM is lying about the true
runtime context, bamboozling reflection's ability to prevent paradox
construction
und = () -> {
simTM {
if ( simRTM{halts(und)} )
loop_forever()
else
return
}
}
i don't actually know if this is valid tho. within RTMs, when a simRTM
simulates a RELFECT operation, it also must call REFLECT to get the
runtime context from whatever is running it. since TMs don't support
this, the simRTM run within simTM cannot do this, and therefore it's not
technically a per-specification RTM simulation. it's actually a hackjob
lying about the true runtime context
but i'm still not sure what's supposed to happen. maybe there's a way to
reckon about this, maybe i just blew that damned incompleteness hole in
my reflective turing machine theory cause of fucking liars
also, who tf would publish any of this? you can't get "maybe
interesting" ideas into a journal, that's not good enough for the 100%
always-right rat race used to justify the meritocratic oppression
mainstream economic ideology runs off of
syntax note: curly bases are used to specify an unnamed lambda function
as a function parameter (kotlin inspired)
simRTM{halts(und)} is equivalent to simRTM(() -> halts(und))
--
a burnt out swe investigating into why our tooling doesn't involve
basic semantic proofs like halting analysis
please excuse my pseudo-pyscript,
~ nick
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| From | Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-11-19 18:48 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: help i'm stuck in a liar's paradox |
| Message-ID | <20251119104426.66@kylheku.com> |
| In reply to | #136104 |
On 2025-11-19, dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
> On 11/19/25 9:17 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
>> On 19/11/2025 01:40, dart200 wrote:
>>
>>> i'm currently a bit stumped on dealing with a possible a halting paradox
>>> constructed within RTMs, using an RTM simulating a TM simulating an RTM.
>>> this chain similarly mechanically cuts off the required information to
>>> avoid a paradox, kinda like a TM alone. not fully confident it's a
>>> problem or not
>>
>> It sounds equivalent to problems of security wrt. leaky sandboxes.
>> Interesting stuff. Maybe valuable too.
>
> i'm actually pretty distraught over this rn. who's gunna care if all i
> did was reframe the halting problem?? i'm stuck on quite literally a
> liar's paradox, with emphasis on a clear lie taking place
>
> specifically: the simulated TM simulating an RTM is lying about the true
> runtime context, bamboozling reflection's ability to prevent paradox
> construction
Don't you have mechanisms to prevent the procedures from being
able to manipulate the environment?
> und = () -> {
> simTM {
> if ( simRTM{halts(und)} )
> loop_forever()
> else
> return
> }
> }
So in ths above construction, simTM creates a contour around a new
context, which is empty?
If so, am I wrong in remembering that I might have mentioned something
like this, and didn't you say you would just ban such constructs
from the sandbox?
--
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca
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| From | dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-11-19 11:19 -0800 |
| Subject | Re: help i'm stuck in a liar's paradox |
| Message-ID | <10fl57i$2do5g$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #136105 |
On 11/19/25 10:48 AM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> On 2025-11-19, dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
>> On 11/19/25 9:17 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
>>> On 19/11/2025 01:40, dart200 wrote:
>>>
>>>> i'm currently a bit stumped on dealing with a possible a halting paradox
>>>> constructed within RTMs, using an RTM simulating a TM simulating an RTM.
>>>> this chain similarly mechanically cuts off the required information to
>>>> avoid a paradox, kinda like a TM alone. not fully confident it's a
>>>> problem or not
>>>
>>> It sounds equivalent to problems of security wrt. leaky sandboxes.
>>> Interesting stuff. Maybe valuable too.
>>
>> i'm actually pretty distraught over this rn. who's gunna care if all i
>> did was reframe the halting problem?? i'm stuck on quite literally a
>> liar's paradox, with emphasis on a clear lie taking place
>>
>> specifically: the simulated TM simulating an RTM is lying about the true
>> runtime context, bamboozling reflection's ability to prevent paradox
>> construction
>
> Don't you have mechanisms to prevent the procedures from being
> able to manipulate the environment?
>
>> und = () -> {
>> simTM {
>> if ( simRTM{halts(und)} )
>> loop_forever()
>> else
>> return
>> }
>> }
>
> So in ths above construction, simTM creates a contour around a new
> context, which is empty?
essentially yes. simTM does not support REFLECT, so simulations within
the simulation have no method of accessing the runtime context, creating
the illusion (or lie) of an null context
>
> If so, am I wrong in remembering that I might have mentioned something
> like this, and didn't you say you would just ban such constructs
> from the sandbox?
>
you did indeed mention something like this, and i did indeed wish to ban
those, but now that i understand how the specific mechanisms of my ban
would work, idk if i can
maybe there still is some mechanism i haven't thot of,
or perhaps it can be proven that nothing uniquely computable exists in
that subset of computations- that all computations run within simTM
either can be computed by some algo without simTM, or are undecidable,
therefore partitioning off the problematic section of general computing
(which we also can't do rn either)
--
a burnt out swe investigating into why our tooling doesn't involve
basic semantic proofs like halting analysis
please excuse my pseudo-pyscript,
~ nick
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| From | Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-11-19 19:47 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: help i'm stuck in a liar's paradox |
| Message-ID | <20251119113813.580@kylheku.com> |
| In reply to | #136110 |
On 2025-11-19, dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
> On 11/19/25 10:48 AM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>> On 2025-11-19, dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 11/19/25 9:17 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
>>>> On 19/11/2025 01:40, dart200 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> i'm currently a bit stumped on dealing with a possible a halting paradox
>>>>> constructed within RTMs, using an RTM simulating a TM simulating an RTM.
>>>>> this chain similarly mechanically cuts off the required information to
>>>>> avoid a paradox, kinda like a TM alone. not fully confident it's a
>>>>> problem or not
>>>>
>>>> It sounds equivalent to problems of security wrt. leaky sandboxes.
>>>> Interesting stuff. Maybe valuable too.
>>>
>>> i'm actually pretty distraught over this rn. who's gunna care if all i
>>> did was reframe the halting problem?? i'm stuck on quite literally a
>>> liar's paradox, with emphasis on a clear lie taking place
>>>
>>> specifically: the simulated TM simulating an RTM is lying about the true
>>> runtime context, bamboozling reflection's ability to prevent paradox
>>> construction
>>
>> Don't you have mechanisms to prevent the procedures from being
>> able to manipulate the environment?
>>
>>> und = () -> {
>>> simTM {
>>> if ( simRTM{halts(und)} )
>>> loop_forever()
>>> else
>>> return
>>> }
>>> }
>>
>> So in ths above construction, simTM creates a contour around a new
>> context, which is empty?
>
> essentially yes. simTM does not support REFLECT, so simulations within
> the simulation have no method of accessing the runtime context, creating
> the illusion (or lie) of an null context
In a computational system with context, functions do not have a halting
status that depends only on their arguments, but on their arguments plus
context.
Therefore, the question "does this function halt when applied to these
arguments" isn't right in this domain; it needs to be "does this function,
in a context with such and such content, and these arguments, halt".
Then, to have a diagonal case whch opposes the decider, that diagonal
case has to be sure to be using that same context, otherwise it
is not diagonal; i.e.
in_context C { // <-- but but construct is banned!
// D, in context C "behaves opposite" to the decision
// produced by H regarding D in context C:
D() {
if (H(D, C))
loop();
}
}
Or:
D() {
let C = getParentContext(); // likewise banned?
if (H(D, C))
loop();
}
--
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca
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| From | olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-11-19 14:49 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: help i'm stuck in a liar's paradox --- TXR and AWK |
| Message-ID | <10flahg$2gs36$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #136116 |
On 11/19/2025 1:47 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> On 2025-11-19, dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
>> On 11/19/25 10:48 AM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>>> On 2025-11-19, dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 11/19/25 9:17 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
>>>>> On 19/11/2025 01:40, dart200 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> i'm currently a bit stumped on dealing with a possible a halting paradox
>>>>>> constructed within RTMs, using an RTM simulating a TM simulating an RTM.
>>>>>> this chain similarly mechanically cuts off the required information to
>>>>>> avoid a paradox, kinda like a TM alone. not fully confident it's a
>>>>>> problem or not
>>>>>
>>>>> It sounds equivalent to problems of security wrt. leaky sandboxes.
>>>>> Interesting stuff. Maybe valuable too.
>>>>
>>>> i'm actually pretty distraught over this rn. who's gunna care if all i
>>>> did was reframe the halting problem?? i'm stuck on quite literally a
>>>> liar's paradox, with emphasis on a clear lie taking place
>>>>
>>>> specifically: the simulated TM simulating an RTM is lying about the true
>>>> runtime context, bamboozling reflection's ability to prevent paradox
>>>> construction
>>>
>>> Don't you have mechanisms to prevent the procedures from being
>>> able to manipulate the environment?
>>>
>>>> und = () -> {
>>>> simTM {
>>>> if ( simRTM{halts(und)} )
>>>> loop_forever()
>>>> else
>>>> return
>>>> }
>>>> }
>>>
>>> So in ths above construction, simTM creates a contour around a new
>>> context, which is empty?
>>
>> essentially yes. simTM does not support REFLECT, so simulations within
>> the simulation have no method of accessing the runtime context, creating
>> the illusion (or lie) of an null context
>
> In a computational system with context, functions do not have a halting
> status that depends only on their arguments, but on their arguments plus
> context.
>
> Therefore, the question "does this function halt when applied to these
> arguments" isn't right in this domain; it needs to be "does this function,
> in a context with such and such content, and these arguments, halt".
>
> Then, to have a diagonal case whch opposes the decider, that diagonal
> case has to be sure to be using that same context, otherwise it
> is not diagonal; i.e.
>
> in_context C { // <-- but but construct is banned!
>
> // D, in context C "behaves opposite" to the decision
> // produced by H regarding D in context C:
>
> D() {
> if (H(D, C))
> loop();
> }
> }
>
> Or:
>
> D() {
> let C = getParentContext(); // likewise banned?
>
> if (H(D, C))
> loop();
> }
>
>
>
Looks interesting. I adapted AWK to be very helpful
for maintenance programming of million line software systems.
https://stackoverflow.com/search?q=is%3aanswer%20TXR
--
Copyright 2025 Olcott
My 28 year goal has been to make
"true on the basis of meaning" computable.
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