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Groups > comp.theory > #135431 > unrolled thread

Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference

Started byolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
First post2025-11-12 08:45 -0600
Last post2025-12-07 13:17 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 449 — 21 participants

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Contents

  Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 08:45 -0600
    Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 11:57 -0600
      Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-12 18:12 +0000
        Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 12:31 -0600
          Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-12 18:46 +0000
            Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 13:11 -0600
            Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 13:33 -0600
            Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-12 20:17 +0000
              Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 14:45 -0600
                Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-13 02:25 +0000
                  D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 20:34 -0600
                    Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-13 02:42 +0000
                      Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 19:49 -0800
                        Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 22:36 -0600
                          Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-11-13 08:54 +0100
                            Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 00:21 -0800
                            How to handle pathological cases (was Re: ...) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-13 11:18 +0100
                              Re: How to handle pathological cases (was Re: ...) Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2025-11-13 12:14 +0000
                                Re: How to handle pathological cases (was Re: ...) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 07:06 -0800
                                Re: How to handle pathological cases (was Re: ...) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 09:28 -0600
                              Re: How to handle pathological cases (was Re: ...) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 09:15 -0600
                            Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 09:22 -0600
                        Any article that contains the string "olcott" is junk (Was: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2025-11-13 12:36 +0000
                          Re: Any article that contains the string "olcott" is junk (Was: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-11-13 13:49 +0100
                            Re: Any article that contains the string "olcott" is junk (Was: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2025-11-13 12:55 +0000
                            Re: Any article that contains the string "olcott" is junk (Was: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 09:26 -0600
                          Re: Any article that contains the string "olcott" is junk (Was: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 09:24 -0600
                      Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 22:53 -0600
                    Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-19 04:42 +0000
                    Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated final halt state Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-12-14 20:59 -0500
              Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-12 20:49 +0000
        Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-13 11:18 +0200
          Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 10:06 -0600
            Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-13 19:04 +0000
              Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 15:18 -0600
            Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-14 10:53 +0200
              Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-14 08:33 -0600
                Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-14 14:56 +0000
                  Libelous statements that meet the burden of proof of reckless disregard of the truth olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-14 09:33 -0600
                    Re: Statements that are true, with full regard for the truth Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-14 15:52 +0000
                      Libelous statements that meet the burden of proof of reckless disregard of the truth olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-14 10:03 -0600
                      Re: Statements that are true, with full regard for the truth dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-14 09:05 -0800
                        Re: Statements that are true, with full regard for the truth Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-14 17:52 +0000
                          Re: Statements that are true, with full regard for the truth olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-14 12:16 -0600
                          Re: Statements that are true, with full regard for the truth dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-14 12:59 -0800
                  Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-14 11:45 -0800
                  Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-14 20:09 +0000
                    Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-14 14:30 -0600
                      Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-14 20:43 +0000
                        Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-14 14:58 -0600
                          Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-15 11:59 +0000
                            Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 13:31 +0000
                              Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-16 08:49 +0000
                                "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 10:01 -0600
                                  Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-16 22:20 +0000
                                    Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 20:08 -0600
                                      Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-17 13:21 +0000
                                        Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 07:46 -0600
                                          Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-17 17:00 +0000
                                            Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 11:04 -0600
                                              Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-17 17:29 +0000
                                                Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 11:36 -0600
                                                  Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-17 21:11 +0000
                                                    Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 17:23 -0600
                                                      Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-17 23:38 +0000
                                                        Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 17:45 -0600
                                                          Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-18 00:01 +0000
                                                            Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 18:34 -0600
                                                              Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-18 13:45 +0000
                                                                Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 09:15 -0600
                                                          Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-18 02:28 +0000
                                                            Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 21:51 -0600
                                                        Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-18 13:16 +0000
                                                      Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-18 02:23 +0000
                                                eric is not a crank dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 11:41 -0800
                                                  Re: eric is not a crank olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 13:44 -0600
                                                  Re: eric is not a crank Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-17 20:34 +0000
                                                    Re: eric is not a crank olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 14:45 -0600
                                                    Re: eric is not a crank dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 13:24 -0800
                                                      Re: eric is not a crank dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 13:30 -0800
                                                      Re: eric is not a crank olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 16:20 -0600
                                                        Re: eric is not a crank dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 15:03 -0800
                                                          Re: eric is not a crank olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 17:35 -0600
                                                            polcott agrees with the halting problem dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 16:06 -0800
                                                              Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 18:31 -0600
                                                                Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 19:43 -0500
                                                                Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 18:46 -0800
                                                                  Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-18 03:07 +0000
                                                                    Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 19:10 -0800
                                                                      Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 19:36 -0800
                                                                        Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 21:18 -0800
                                                                          Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 15:10 -0800
                                                                            Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-18 17:40 -0800
                                                                              Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 19:46 -0600
                                                                              Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-19 17:17 +0000
                                                                                help i'm stuck in a liar's paradox dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-19 10:43 -0800
                                                                                  Re: help i'm stuck in a liar's paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-19 18:48 +0000
                                                                                    Re: help i'm stuck in a liar's paradox dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-19 11:19 -0800
                                                                                      Re: help i'm stuck in a liar's paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-19 19:47 +0000
                                                                                        Re: help i'm stuck in a liar's paradox --- TXR and AWK olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 14:49 -0600
                                                                                        Re: help i'm stuck in a liar's paradox dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-19 21:01 -0800
                                                                                  Re: help i'm stuck in a liar's paradox olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 14:18 -0600
                                                                              Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 13:03 -0800
                                                                      Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-18 03:45 +0000
                                                                        polcott agrees the halting problem is wrong olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 22:07 -0600
                                                                        Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-19 17:41 +0000
                                                                          polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 12:37 -0600
                                                                            Re: polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-19 20:55 +0000
                                                                              Re: polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 15:05 -0600
                                                                                Re: polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-19 21:41 +0000
                                                                                  Re: polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 21:12 -0600
                                                                                    Re: polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-20 04:42 +0000
                                                                                      Re: polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 22:57 -0600
                                                                                        Re: polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 13:22 -0800
                                                                                        Re: polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-20 22:10 +0000
                                                                                          Re: polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 14:56 -0800
                                                                                          polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 17:24 -0600
                                                                                            Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 15:27 -0800
                                                                                            Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-21 02:42 +0000
                                                                                              polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 20:50 -0600
                                                                                                Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 19:10 -0800
                                                                                                Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-21 04:12 +0000
                                                                                                Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-21 04:13 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 20:23 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 22:41 -0600
                                                                                                    Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-21 05:04 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-21 09:19 -0600
                                                                                                        Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-21 17:29 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-21 12:15 -0600
                                                                                                            Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-21 18:22 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-21 19:18 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-21 13:33 -0600
                                                                                                                Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-21 22:05 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2025-11-21 23:14 -0600
                                                                                                                    Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-11-22 05:39 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-22 07:05 -0600
                                                                                                                    Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-22 07:00 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-22 07:26 -0600
                                                                                                                        Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-22 19:29 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-22 13:44 -0600
                                                                                                                            Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-22 20:07 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-22 14:13 -0600
                                                                                                                                Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-23 04:09 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-23 04:07 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-23 04:20 +0000
                                                                                                                              Glossary of names in my termination analyzer system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-22 22:50 -0600
                                                                                                                Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-21 22:12 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-21 21:56 -0600
                                                                                                                Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-22 02:54 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-21 23:06 -0600
                                                                                                            Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-22 18:07 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-22 18:07 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-21 13:42 -0800
                                                                                            Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-22 18:10 +0000
                                                                                              Re: polcott agrees the Kaz is a damned liar --- DD simulated by HHH Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-22 19:36 +0000
                                                                                          polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect --- is libel against him olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 20:00 -0600
                                                                      polcott agrees that the halting problem is incorrect in this way olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 21:47 -0600
                                                                      Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-18 23:47 +0000
                                                                        Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-19 00:13 +0000
                                                                          Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-19 00:57 +0000
                                                                        polcott has shwn that the halting problem is incorrect olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 18:17 -0600
                                                                        Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 18:24 -0600
                                                                          Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-19 01:06 +0000
                                                                          Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-19 01:07 +0000
                                                                            Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 19:41 -0600
                                                                              Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-19 18:20 +0000
                                                                                Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 12:49 -0600
                                                                                  Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-19 19:18 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 12:40 -0800
                                                                                    Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 12:44 -0800
                                                                                    Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-20 01:56 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 20:19 -0600
                                                                                      Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 13:25 -0800
                                                                                        Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-20 22:05 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 15:43 -0800
                                                                                  Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-19 21:03 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Liars try to get away with DD simulated by HHH halts olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 21:13 -0600
                                                                        Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-19 10:26 -0800
                                                                          Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-19 19:42 +0000
                                                                            polcott agrees the halting problem is incorrect --- quit lying about what I say olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 14:45 -0600
                                                                            Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 12:51 -0800
                                                                            Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2025-11-19 16:04 -0700
                                                                              Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 17:43 -0600
                                                                              Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-20 00:04 +0000
                                                                            homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-19 18:08 -0800
                                                                              Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-20 02:29 +0000
                                                                                Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-19 18:49 -0800
                                                                                  Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-20 02:58 +0000
                                                                                    Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-19 19:53 -0800
                                                                                      Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-20 19:55 +0000
                                                                                        Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-20 12:03 -0800
                                                                                          Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-20 20:14 +0000
                                                                                            Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-20 20:24 +0000
                                                                                Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-20 07:22 +0000
                                                                              Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-20 20:53 +0000
                                                                                Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-11-20 21:09 +0000
                                                                                  Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-20 13:35 -0800
                                                                                    Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-20 22:06 +0000
                                                                                Re: homework assignment for the group: multi-decider paradox dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-20 13:50 -0800
                                                                        Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 18:10 -0800
                                                                  Re: polcott agrees with the halting problem olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 21:37 -0600
                                                        Re: eric is not a crank Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-17 23:28 +0000
                                                  Re: eric is not a crank "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 13:33 -0800
                                                    Re: eric is not a crank dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 13:44 -0800
                                                      Re: eric is not a crank olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 16:49 -0600
                                                  Re: eric is not a crank Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-17 22:39 +0000
                                                    Re: eric is not a crank Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-18 23:21 +0000
                                                      Re: eric is not a crank Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-18 23:36 +0000
                                                        Re: eric is not a crank olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 17:43 -0600
                                                          Re: eric is not a crank "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 16:06 -0800
                                                        Re: eric is not a crank Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-19 18:24 +0000
                                                      Re: eric is not a crank olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 17:40 -0600
                                                the halting problem is founded in computer science dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 13:22 -0800
                                                  Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 16:48 -0600
                                                  Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-18 13:36 +0000
                                                    the halting problem is founded in computer science not math olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 08:50 -0600
                                                      Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science not math Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-18 20:02 +0000
                                                        Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science not math olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 14:12 -0600
                                                    Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-18 13:04 -0800
                                                      Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-19 18:36 +0000
                                                  Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-11-19 23:36 +0000
                                                    Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2025-11-19 17:53 -0600
                                                      Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-20 00:01 +0000
                                                      Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-20 00:01 +0000
                                                        Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 21:11 -0600
                                                          Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-20 20:05 +0000
                                                    Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-19 18:15 -0800
                                                      Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-11-20 23:15 +0000
                                                        Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-20 23:38 -0800
                                                          Making True(Language L, Expression E) always computable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-21 09:09 -0600
                                                          Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-11-22 03:02 +0000
                                                            halting problem counter example H/D pair is the Liar Paradox olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2025-11-21 21:34 -0600
                                                              Re: halting problem counter example H/D pair is the Liar Paradox Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-22 04:26 +0000
                                                              Re: halting problem counter example H/D pair is the Liar Paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-22 06:08 +0000
                                                                Re: halting problem counter example H/D pair is the Liar Paradox olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-22 07:16 -0600
                                                                  Re: halting problem counter example H/D pair is the Liar Paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-22 16:45 +0000
                                                                    Re: halting problem counter example H/D pair is the Liar Paradox olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-22 11:14 -0600
                                                                      Re: halting problem counter example H/D pair is the Liar Paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-22 17:44 +0000
                                                                        Re: halting problem counter example H/D pair is the Liar Paradox olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-22 11:48 -0600
                                                                          Re: halting problem counter example H/D pair is the Liar Paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-22 18:05 +0000
                                                                          Re: halting problem counter example H/D pair is the Liar Paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-23 04:13 +0000
                                                                  Re: halting problem counter example H/D pair is the Liar Paradox Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-23 04:11 +0000
                                                            Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-21 20:14 -0800
                                                    Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-19 18:25 -0800
                                                      Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-20 07:46 +0000
                                                        "great now there's n+1 formal systems" reports dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-20 02:24 -0800
                                                          Re: "great now there's n+1 formal systems" reports Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-20 14:41 +0000
                                                            Re: "great now there's n+1 formal systems" reports dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-20 12:03 -0800
                                                              Re: "great now there's n+1 formal systems" reports Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-20 20:39 +0000
                                                                Re: "great now there's n+1 formal systems" reports dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-21 10:59 -0800
                                                      Re: the halting problem is founded in computer science Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-11-20 23:17 +0000
                                                Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-17 21:41 +0000
                                                  Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 13:50 -0800
                                                    Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-17 22:15 +0000
                                                      Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-17 22:45 +0000
                                                        Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-17 22:54 +0000
                                                          Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-17 23:05 +0000
                                                        The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 16:59 -0600
                                                          Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-17 23:22 +0000
                                                            Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-18 06:40 +0000
                                                          Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-19 01:03 +0000
                                                            Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 19:36 -0600
                                                              Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-19 18:51 +0000
                                                                Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 14:22 -0600
                                                                  Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-19 20:55 +0000
                                                                    Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 21:24 -0600
                                                                      Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-20 04:46 +0000
                                                                        Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 22:58 -0600
                                                                          Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-20 08:06 +0000
                                                                            Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-22 08:12 -0600
                                                                              Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-22 10:15 -0500
                                                                              Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-22 18:42 +0000
                                                                                Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-22 13:06 -0600
                                                                      Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-20 20:49 +0000
                                                                        Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-21 13:50 -0600
                                                                          Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-21 22:05 +0000
                                                            Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-19 02:47 +0000
                                                              Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 21:04 -0600
                                                          Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-21 01:14 +0000
                                                            Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-21 01:28 +0000
                                                            Re: The halting problem is merely the Liar Paradox in disguise olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-20 22:00 -0600
                                                        Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-17 22:59 +0000
                                                      Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 15:09 -0800
                                                        Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-17 23:31 +0000
                                                          Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 17:39 -0600
                                                            Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-17 23:48 +0000
                                                          Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 16:00 -0800
                                                            Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 18:07 -0600
                                                            Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-18 00:19 +0000
                                                              Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 18:58 -0800
                                                                Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 21:40 -0600
                                                                Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-18 11:02 +0000
                                                        Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 17:36 -0600
                                                        Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-18 06:48 +0000
                                                    Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-17 22:41 +0000
                                                      Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 15:10 -0800
                                                        Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-17 23:33 +0000
                                                          Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 16:04 -0800
                                                            Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 18:26 -0600
                                                            Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-18 02:16 +0000
                                                              Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-17 19:02 -0800
                                                                Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 21:43 -0600
                                                              Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-18 12:57 +0000
                                                      Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-18 12:52 +0000
                                                    Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 16:54 -0600
                                              Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-17 20:51 +0000
                                                Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 17:20 -0600
                                                  Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-17 23:44 +0000
                                                    Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 22:44 -0600
                                                      Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-18 06:40 +0000
                                                        Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 08:04 -0600
                                                          Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-18 21:58 +0000
                                                            Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 16:56 -0600
                                                            Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 17:04 -0600
                                        Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 07:52 -0600
                                          Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-17 16:01 +0000
                                            Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 10:29 -0600
                                Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-16 18:55 +0000
                                  Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-16 21:43 +0000
                                  Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 18:48 -0600
                                  Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-17 04:09 +0000
                                Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 13:24 -0800
                            Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 09:38 -0600
                              Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 12:59 -0800
                                Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 05:28 +0800
                                  Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-27 00:44 -0800
                                    Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-27 19:37 +0800
                              Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-16 09:32 +0000
                        Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 13:11 +0000
                    Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 13:03 +0000
                      Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 14:39 +0000
                        Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-11-15 06:43 -0800
                          Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 15:29 +0000
                      Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 09:41 -0600
                        Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 16:32 +0000
                          Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 11:03 -0600
                            Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 17:24 +0000
                              Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 11:38 -0600
                                Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 18:06 +0000
                                  Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 12:50 -0600
                                    Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 03:30 +0800
                                      Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 13:55 -0600
                                        Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 04:04 +0800
                                          Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 14:14 -0600
                                            Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 04:25 +0800
                                              Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 14:48 -0600
                                                Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 21:55 +0000
                                                  Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 16:18 -0600
                      Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 13:05 -0800
                Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-15 11:56 +0200
                  Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 09:51 -0600
                    Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 16:35 +0000
                      Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 11:05 -0600
                        Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 17:27 +0000
                          Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 11:40 -0600
                            Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 18:08 +0000
                              Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 12:53 -0600
                    Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 20:31 +0000
                      Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 14:55 -0600
                        Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 22:02 +0000
                          Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-15 22:54 +0000
                            Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-15 23:30 +0000
                              Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 17:32 -0600
                              Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-16 00:10 +0000
                                Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-16 18:44 +0000
                                  Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 18:41 -0600
                          Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 17:22 -0600
                            Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-16 01:07 +0000
                              Rejecting expressions of formal language having infinite loops --- G ↔ ¬Prov(⌜G⌝) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-15 19:29 -0600
                                Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having infinite loops --- G ↔ ¬Prov(⌜G⌝) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-16 19:11 +0000
                                  Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having infinite loops --- G ↔ ¬Prov(⌜G⌝) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 18:52 -0600
                                    Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having infinite loops --- G ↔ ¬Prov(⌜G⌝) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-17 01:45 +0000
                                      Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having infinite loops --- G ↔ ¬Prov(⌜G⌝) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 20:13 -0600
                                        Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having infinite loops --- G ↔ ¬Prov(⌜G⌝) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-17 03:41 +0000
                                          Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having infinite loops --- G ↔ ¬Prov(⌜G⌝) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 21:50 -0600
                                            Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having infinite loops --- G ↔ ¬Prov(⌜G⌝) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-17 04:04 +0000
                    Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-16 10:55 +0200
                      Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 14:37 -0600
                        Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-17 11:11 +0200
                          Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-17 07:44 -0600
                            Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-18 11:26 +0200
                              Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-18 09:51 -0600
                                Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-19 11:53 +0200
                                  Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-19 07:02 -0600
                                    Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-19 18:13 +0000
                                    Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-20 10:08 +0200
                      Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-16 13:27 -0800
      Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-12 18:39 +0000
        Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 12:52 -0600
          Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-13 02:36 +0000
            Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 20:57 -0600
              Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-13 03:22 +0000
                Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 22:43 -0600
                  Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-13 08:44 +0000
                    Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 09:38 -0600
                      Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-13 18:57 +0000
                  Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-11-16 15:45 +0000
      Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-14 00:09 +0000
        Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 18:45 -0600
          Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-14 01:02 +0000
            Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 20:29 -0600
              Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-14 13:09 +0000
                Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-14 07:42 -0600
          Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-14 01:14 +0000
            Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 20:33 -0600
        Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-14 10:45 -0600
    Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-13 02:22 +0000
      Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 20:32 -0600
        Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-13 02:38 +0000
          Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 22:48 -0600
          Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-11-13 04:50 +0000
            Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-12 23:00 -0600
            Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 00:16 -0800
    Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-13 11:05 +0200
      Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-13 10:00 -0600
        Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-14 11:01 +0200
          Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-14 08:42 -0600
            Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-26 12:30 +0200
              Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-26 09:27 -0600
                Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-26 19:46 +0000
                  Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-26 14:07 -0600
                    Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-11-26 21:00 -0500
                    Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-12-01 14:45 +0000
                      Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-12-01 09:18 -0600
                  Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-27 10:22 +0200
                    Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-27 00:39 -0800
                Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-27 10:20 +0200
                  Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-27 09:49 -0600
                    Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-11-27 12:27 -0500
                    Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-28 10:45 +0200
                      Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-28 09:22 -0600
                        Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-29 12:28 +0200
      Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-14 00:56 +0000
        Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-14 11:09 +0200
          Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-14 13:20 +0000
          Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-14 08:49 -0600
            Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-26 12:17 +0200
              Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-26 09:20 -0600
                Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-11-26 10:25 -0500
                Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-27 10:17 +0200
                  Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-27 09:48 -0600
                    Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-28 10:40 +0200
                      Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-28 09:21 -0600
                        Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-11-28 11:03 -0500
                        Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-29 12:31 +0200
                          Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-29 12:01 -0600
                            Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-12-01 12:18 +0200
                              Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-12-01 06:45 -0600
                                Re: Rejecting expressions of formal language having pathological self-reference Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-12-07 13:17 +0200

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#135873 — Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)

FromAlan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Date2025-11-17 17:29 +0000
SubjectRe: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)
Message-ID<10ffm0u$2u40$3@news.muc.de>
In reply to#135872
olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/17/2025 11:00 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 11/17/2025 7:21 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 11/16/2025 4:20 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:

>>>>>> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:

>> [ .... ]

>>>>>>> That is not the way that the world works. A brilliant
>>>>>>> tenured PhD computer science professor could have been
>>>>>>> fired merely because he brought up the idea that the
>>>>>>> halting problem might be wrong. No one bothered to look
>>>>>>> at any of the words that he wrote. The fact that he
>>>>>>> challenged conventional wisdom was considered blasphemy.

>>>>>> I put it to you that this has never happened.  Tenured professors don't
>>>>>> go around asserting falsehoods in their own field.

>>>>> It is not a falsehood.

>>>> I put it to you again, that no tenured professor has ever been sacked for
>>>> this reason.

>>> https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/PHPhistory.pdf

>> What's that got to do with anything?  There is no indication of anybody
>> being sacked in that article.  Nor in the article cited in the other
>> reply you made to my last post.


> You have to read it all the way through.

I have done now, more or less.  Nobody got sacked.

>   What strikes me most about these reviews is that
>   they do not point out any error in my arguments
>   and proofs. They point out, with accompanying insults,
>   that I am making a claim that is contrary to the
>   current orthodoxy. I know that. They know that Turing
>   proved that the Halting Problem is incomputable; it's
>   in all the textbooks. So they know from my paper's
>   abstract that the paper is wrong. So they feel no
>   need to read my arguments carefully.

That sounds like another crank.  Some of the reviewers did indeed point
out errors.  Note the way he says "current orthodoxy", as though
mathematics were a question of fashion.  It's not.  I would bet a large
amount of money on him not having a degree in mathematics, much like
yourself.  Perhaps one or more of his reviewers did.  The Halting Theorem
is wholly a theorem of mathematics, and only secondarily about computer
science.

One can understand the reviewers not wanting to get into the sort of
fruitless discussions which happen here.

> -- 
> Copyright 2025 Olcott

> My 28 year goal has been to make
> "true on the basis of meaning" computable.

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#135874 — Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2025-11-17 11:36 -0600
SubjectRe: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)
Message-ID<10ffmfj$1100c$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#135873
On 11/17/2025 11:29 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 11/17/2025 11:00 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 11/17/2025 7:21 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/16/2025 4:20 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> 
>>>>>>> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>> [ .... ]
> 
>>>>>>>> That is not the way that the world works. A brilliant
>>>>>>>> tenured PhD computer science professor could have been
>>>>>>>> fired merely because he brought up the idea that the
>>>>>>>> halting problem might be wrong. No one bothered to look
>>>>>>>> at any of the words that he wrote. The fact that he
>>>>>>>> challenged conventional wisdom was considered blasphemy.
> 
>>>>>>> I put it to you that this has never happened.  Tenured professors don't
>>>>>>> go around asserting falsehoods in their own field.
> 
>>>>>> It is not a falsehood.
> 
>>>>> I put it to you again, that no tenured professor has ever been sacked for
>>>>> this reason.
> 
>>>> https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/PHPhistory.pdf
> 
>>> What's that got to do with anything?  There is no indication of anybody
>>> being sacked in that article.  Nor in the article cited in the other
>>> reply you made to my last post.
> 
> 
>> You have to read it all the way through.
> 
> I have done now, more or less.  Nobody got sacked.
> 
>>    What strikes me most about these reviews is that
>>    they do not point out any error in my arguments
>>    and proofs. They point out, with accompanying insults,
>>    that I am making a claim that is contrary to the
>>    current orthodoxy. I know that. They know that Turing
>>    proved that the Halting Problem is incomputable; it's
>>    in all the textbooks. So they know from my paper's
>>    abstract that the paper is wrong. So they feel no
>>    need to read my arguments carefully.
> 
> That sounds like another crank.  Some of the reviewers did indeed point
> out errors.  Note the way he says "current orthodoxy", as though
> mathematics were a question of fashion.  It's not.  I would bet a large
> amount of money on him not having a degree in mathematics, much like

He is a tenured computer science professor
with a PhD in computer science.

His name was on the back cover of a journal
as an editor of the journal that turned him down
in a very insulting way.

Halting misconceived?
Bill Stoddart August 25, 2017
tenured computer science professor with a PhD in computer science.
https://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/euroforth/ef17/papers/stoddart.pdf

> yourself.  Perhaps one or more of his reviewers did. 


>  The Halting Theorem
> is wholly a theorem of mathematics, and only secondarily about computer
> science.
> 
> One can understand the reviewers not wanting to get into the sort of
> fruitless discussions which happen here.
> 
>> -- 
>> Copyright 2025 Olcott
> 
>> My 28 year goal has been to make
>> "true on the basis of meaning" computable.
> 


-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott

My 28 year goal has been to make
"true on the basis of meaning" computable.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#135891 — Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)

FromAlan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Date2025-11-17 21:11 +0000
SubjectRe: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)
Message-ID<10fg31q$205v$1@news.muc.de>
In reply to#135874
[ Followup-To: set ]

In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/17/2025 11:29 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 11/17/2025 11:00 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 11/17/2025 7:21 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>>> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/16/2025 4:20 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:

>>>>>>>> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>> [ .... ]

>>>>>>>>> That is not the way that the world works. A brilliant
>>>>>>>>> tenured PhD computer science professor could have been
>>>>>>>>> fired merely because he brought up the idea that the
>>>>>>>>> halting problem might be wrong. No one bothered to look
>>>>>>>>> at any of the words that he wrote. The fact that he
>>>>>>>>> challenged conventional wisdom was considered blasphemy.

>>>>>>>> I put it to you that this has never happened.  Tenured
>>>>>>>> professors don't go around asserting falsehoods in their own
>>>>>>>> field.

>>>>>>> It is not a falsehood.

>>>>>> I put it to you again, that no tenured professor has ever been
>>>>>> sacked for this reason.

>>>>> https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/PHPhistory.pdf

>>>> What's that got to do with anything?  There is no indication of
>>>> anybody being sacked in that article.  Nor in the article cited in
>>>> the other reply you made to my last post.


>>> You have to read it all the way through.

>> I have done now, more or less.  Nobody got sacked.

>>>    What strikes me most about these reviews is that
>>>    they do not point out any error in my arguments
>>>    and proofs. They point out, with accompanying insults,
>>>    that I am making a claim that is contrary to the
>>>    current orthodoxy. I know that. They know that Turing
>>>    proved that the Halting Problem is incomputable; it's
>>>    in all the textbooks. So they know from my paper's
>>>    abstract that the paper is wrong. So they feel no
>>>    need to read my arguments carefully.

>> That sounds like another crank.  Some of the reviewers did indeed point
>> out errors.  Note the way he says "current orthodoxy", as though
>> mathematics were a question of fashion.  It's not.  I would bet a large
>> amount of money on him not having a degree in mathematics, much like
>> yourself.  Perhaps one or more of his reviewers did. 

> He is a tenured computer science professor
> with a PhD in computer science.

But seemingly out of his depth with mathematics.

> His name was on the back cover of a journal
> as an editor of the journal that turned him down
> in a very insulting way.

That demonstrates the integrity of the journal in turning down nonsense,
even that of one of its editors.

> Halting misconceived?
> Bill Stoddart August 25, 2017
> tenured computer science professor with a PhD in computer science.
> https://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/euroforth/ef17/papers/stoddart.pdf

I've just read that paper, and it's so full of holes and hand-waving that
it's wasn't really worth the effort.

For example, he attributes twists he has created in what he ignorantly
considers to be the only proof of the Halting Theorem to the theorem
itself.

He creates a "function" with a domain of three elements, and asserts that
since the third element has no consitent image in this function, that it
cannot be specified.  This is wholly spurious hand-waving.

He then goes on to assert that "We have no model for H [a purported halt
decider] so it cannot have a consistent specification".  Hand waving at
its most blatant.  Nowhere in this paper does Stoddart explain what
"model" means (presumably it's some well known notion in computer
science) nor why the lack of such a model implies a specification is not
possible.

The specification of a purported halt decider is simple and clear.  It is
a program which returns true if its input will halt, and false when it
won't.

Stoddart was out of his depth with the mathematical notions.  He
seemingly has no notion of a pure function; he uses "functions" which
have knowledge of where they were called from.  He somehow considers,
like Peter Olcott, that the purported decider deciding on an input
related to the decider is some special, invalid case.  Somebody of more
mathematical sophistication wouldn't make these mistakes.

He accepts that there is no halting decider, but wrongly attributes that
to the "impossibility" of specifying it.

If this paper has ever been considered for respectable publication, I
expect and hope that the editors would have rejected it.  It is truly
cranky.

>>  The Halting Theorem
>> is wholly a theorem of mathematics, and only secondarily about computer
>> science.

>> One can understand the reviewers not wanting to get into the sort of
>> fruitless discussions which happen here.

> -- 
> Copyright 2025 Olcott

> My 28 year goal has been to make
> "true on the basis of meaning" computable.

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

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#135922 — Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2025-11-17 17:23 -0600
SubjectRe: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)
Message-ID<10fgaqd$16vtj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#135891
On 11/17/2025 3:11 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> [ Followup-To: set ]
> 
> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 11/17/2025 11:29 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 11/17/2025 11:00 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/17/2025 7:21 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>>>> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/16/2025 4:20 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> 
>>>>>>>>> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>>>> [ .... ]
> 
>>>>>>>>>> That is not the way that the world works. A brilliant
>>>>>>>>>> tenured PhD computer science professor could have been
>>>>>>>>>> fired merely because he brought up the idea that the
>>>>>>>>>> halting problem might be wrong. No one bothered to look
>>>>>>>>>> at any of the words that he wrote. The fact that he
>>>>>>>>>> challenged conventional wisdom was considered blasphemy.
> 
>>>>>>>>> I put it to you that this has never happened.  Tenured
>>>>>>>>> professors don't go around asserting falsehoods in their own
>>>>>>>>> field.
> 
>>>>>>>> It is not a falsehood.
> 
>>>>>>> I put it to you again, that no tenured professor has ever been
>>>>>>> sacked for this reason.
> 
>>>>>> https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/PHPhistory.pdf
> 
>>>>> What's that got to do with anything?  There is no indication of
>>>>> anybody being sacked in that article.  Nor in the article cited in
>>>>> the other reply you made to my last post.
> 
> 
>>>> You have to read it all the way through.
> 
>>> I have done now, more or less.  Nobody got sacked.
> 
>>>>     What strikes me most about these reviews is that
>>>>     they do not point out any error in my arguments
>>>>     and proofs. They point out, with accompanying insults,
>>>>     that I am making a claim that is contrary to the
>>>>     current orthodoxy. I know that. They know that Turing
>>>>     proved that the Halting Problem is incomputable; it's
>>>>     in all the textbooks. So they know from my paper's
>>>>     abstract that the paper is wrong. So they feel no
>>>>     need to read my arguments carefully.
> 
>>> That sounds like another crank.  Some of the reviewers did indeed point
>>> out errors.  Note the way he says "current orthodoxy", as though
>>> mathematics were a question of fashion.  It's not.  I would bet a large
>>> amount of money on him not having a degree in mathematics, much like
>>> yourself.  Perhaps one or more of his reviewers did.
> 
>> He is a tenured computer science professor
>> with a PhD in computer science.
> 
> But seemingly out of his depth with mathematics.
> 
>> His name was on the back cover of a journal
>> as an editor of the journal that turned him down
>> in a very insulting way.
> 
> That demonstrates the integrity of the journal in turning down nonsense,
> even that of one of its editors.
> 
>> Halting misconceived?
>> Bill Stoddart August 25, 2017
>> tenured computer science professor with a PhD in computer science.
>> https://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/euroforth/ef17/papers/stoddart.pdf
> 
> I've just read that paper, and it's so full of holes and hand-waving that
> it's wasn't really worth the effort.
> 
> For example, he attributes twists he has created in what he ignorantly
> considers to be the only proof of the Halting Theorem to the theorem
> itself.
> 
> He creates a "function" with a domain of three elements, and asserts that
> since the third element has no consitent image in this function, that it
> cannot be specified.  This is wholly spurious hand-waving.
> 
> He then goes on to assert that "We have no model for H [a purported halt
> decider] so it cannot have a consistent specification".  Hand waving at
> its most blatant.  Nowhere in this paper does Stoddart explain what
> "model" means (presumably it's some well known notion in computer
> science) nor why the lack of such a model implies a specification is not
> possible.
> 
> The specification of a purported halt decider is simple and clear.  It is
> a program which returns true if its input will halt, and false when it
> won't.
> 
> Stoddart was out of his depth with the mathematical notions.  He
> seemingly has no notion of a pure function; he uses "functions" which
> have knowledge of where they were called from.  He somehow considers,
> like Peter Olcott, that the purported decider deciding on an input
> related to the decider is some special, invalid case.  Somebody of more
> mathematical sophistication wouldn't make these mistakes.
> 
> He accepts that there is no halting decider, but wrongly attributes that
> to the "impossibility" of specifying it.
> 
> If this paper has ever been considered for respectable publication, I
> expect and hope that the editors would have rejected it.  It is truly
> cranky.
> 

*you cannot begin to understand the nuances that this entails*
*you cannot begin to understand the nuances that this entails*
*you cannot begin to understand the nuances that this entails*

Turing machine deciders only compute a mapping from
their [finite string] inputs to an accept or reject
state on the basis that this [finite string] input
specifies or fails to specify a semantic or syntactic
property.

*This one single point makes your whole view a compete failure*
*This one single point makes your whole view a compete failure*
*This one single point makes your whole view a compete failure*

-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott

My 28 year goal has been to make
"true on the basis of meaning" computable.

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#135928 — Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)

FromAlan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Date2025-11-17 23:38 +0000
SubjectRe: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)
Message-ID<10fgbm0$205v$5@news.muc.de>
In reply to#135922
olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:

[ .... ]

> *you cannot begin to understand the nuances that this entails*

There's nothing particularly remarkable in what follows.

> Turing machine deciders only compute a mapping from
> their [finite string] inputs to an accept or reject
> state on the basis that this [finite string] input
> specifies or fails to specify a semantic or syntactic
> property.

Yes.  So what?  You can omit the redundant "on the basis that ... or
syntactic property" without any loss.  You could omit the redundant
"only", too.

> *This one single point makes your whole view a compete failure*

Perhaps you could elaborate just how that platitude makes my view a
failure.  It's certainly not clear from what you've written.

> -- 
> Copyright 2025 Olcott

> My 28 year goal has been to make
> "true on the basis of meaning" computable.

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#135931 — Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2025-11-17 17:45 -0600
SubjectRe: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)
Message-ID<10fgc34$179gb$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#135928
On 11/17/2025 5:38 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> [ .... ]
> 
>> *you cannot begin to understand the nuances that this entails*
> 
> There's nothing particularly remarkable in what follows.
> 
>> Turing machine deciders only compute a mapping from
>> their [finite string] inputs to an accept or reject
>> state on the basis that this [finite string] input
>> specifies or fails to specify a semantic or syntactic
>> property.
> 
> Yes.  So what?  You can omit the redundant "on the basis that ... or
> syntactic property" without any loss.  You could omit the redundant
> "only", too.
> 
>> *This one single point makes your whole view a compete failure*
> 
> Perhaps you could elaborate just how that platitude makes my view a
> failure.  It's certainly not clear from what you've written.
> 

The above that I formed myself has key details that
are simply assumed away from the conventional way
this is stated:

In computability theory, the halting problem is
the problem of determining, from a description
of an arbitrary computer program and an input,
whether the program will finish running, or
continue to run forever.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem

Makes sure to not take into account that an input
that calls its own decider specifies a different
sequence of steps than this same input to a decider
that it does not call.

You can disbelieve that DD simulated by HHH does not
specify recursive simulation the same way that you
can disbelieve that 2 + 3 = 5.

>> -- 
>> Copyright 2025 Olcott
> 
>> My 28 year goal has been to make
>> "true on the basis of meaning" computable.


-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott

My 28 year goal has been to make
"true on the basis of meaning" computable.

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#135935 — Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)

FromAlan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Date2025-11-18 00:01 +0000
SubjectRe: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)
Message-ID<10fgd0o$205v$7@news.muc.de>
In reply to#135931
[ Newsgroups: trimmed ]

In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/17/2025 5:38 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:

>> [ .... ]

>>> *you cannot begin to understand the nuances that this entails*

>> There's nothing particularly remarkable in what follows.

>>> Turing machine deciders only compute a mapping from
>>> their [finite string] inputs to an accept or reject
>>> state on the basis that this [finite string] input
>>> specifies or fails to specify a semantic or syntactic
>>> property.

>> Yes.  So what?  You can omit the redundant "on the basis that ... or
>> syntactic property" without any loss.  You could omit the redundant
>> "only", too.

>>> *This one single point makes your whole view a compete failure*

>> Perhaps you could elaborate just how that platitude makes my view a
>> failure.  It's certainly not clear from what you've written.

> The above that I formed myself has key details that
> are simply assumed away from the conventional way
> this is stated:

> In computability theory, the halting problem is
> the problem of determining, from a description
> of an arbitrary computer program and an input,
> whether the program will finish running, or
> continue to run forever.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem

> Makes sure to not take into account that an input
> that calls its own decider specifies a different
> sequence of steps than this same input to a decider
> that it does not call.

It does indeed so make sure, since taking those irrelevant details into
account would change the nature of the problem, making it less tractable.

Also inputs don't have deciders.  There is no function whose domain is
all possible inputs and whose range is deciders.

> You can disbelieve that DD simulated by HHH does not
> specify recursive simulation the same way that you
> can disbelieve that 2 + 3 = 5.

Not at all.  2 + 3 = 5 is trivially true, your other clause is just
confusing, and probably false, depending on exactly what DD, simulated
by, and HHH mean.

> -- 
> Copyright 2025 Olcott

> My 28 year goal has been to make
> "true on the basis of meaning" computable.

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

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#135942 — Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2025-11-17 18:34 -0600
SubjectRe: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)
Message-ID<10fgeud$180g1$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#135935
On 11/17/2025 6:01 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> [ Newsgroups: trimmed ]
> 
> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 11/17/2025 5:38 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>> [ .... ]
> 
>>>> *you cannot begin to understand the nuances that this entails*
> 
>>> There's nothing particularly remarkable in what follows.
> 
>>>> Turing machine deciders only compute a mapping from
>>>> their [finite string] inputs to an accept or reject
>>>> state on the basis that this [finite string] input
>>>> specifies or fails to specify a semantic or syntactic
>>>> property.
> 
>>> Yes.  So what?  You can omit the redundant "on the basis that ... or
>>> syntactic property" without any loss.  You could omit the redundant
>>> "only", too.
> 
>>>> *This one single point makes your whole view a compete failure*
> 
>>> Perhaps you could elaborate just how that platitude makes my view a
>>> failure.  It's certainly not clear from what you've written.
> 
>> The above that I formed myself has key details that
>> are simply assumed away from the conventional way
>> this is stated:
> 
>> In computability theory, the halting problem is
>> the problem of determining, from a description
>> of an arbitrary computer program and an input,
>> whether the program will finish running, or
>> continue to run forever.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem
> 
>> Makes sure to not take into account that an input
>> that calls its own decider specifies a different
>> sequence of steps than this same input to a decider
>> that it does not call.
> 
> It does indeed so make sure, since taking those irrelevant details into
> account would change the nature of the problem, making it less tractable.
> 

In other words you are too fucking stupid to
recognize what is essentially the infinite
recursion behavior pattern. It that it?




-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott

My 28 year goal has been to make
"true on the basis of meaning" computable.

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#135982 — Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)

FromAlan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Date2025-11-18 13:45 +0000
SubjectRe: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)
Message-ID<10fht9d$2hc3$2@news.muc.de>
In reply to#135942
olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/17/2025 6:01 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>> [ Newsgroups: trimmed ]

>> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 11/17/2025 5:38 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>> [ .... ]

>>>>> *you cannot begin to understand the nuances that this entails*

>>>> There's nothing particularly remarkable in what follows.

>>>>> Turing machine deciders only compute a mapping from
>>>>> their [finite string] inputs to an accept or reject
>>>>> state on the basis that this [finite string] input
>>>>> specifies or fails to specify a semantic or syntactic
>>>>> property.

>>>> Yes.  So what?  You can omit the redundant "on the basis that ... or
>>>> syntactic property" without any loss.  You could omit the redundant
>>>> "only", too.

>>>>> *This one single point makes your whole view a compete failure*

>>>> Perhaps you could elaborate just how that platitude makes my view a
>>>> failure.  It's certainly not clear from what you've written.

>>> The above that I formed myself has key details that
>>> are simply assumed away from the conventional way
>>> this is stated:

>>> In computability theory, the halting problem is
>>> the problem of determining, from a description
>>> of an arbitrary computer program and an input,
>>> whether the program will finish running, or
>>> continue to run forever.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem

>>> Makes sure to not take into account that an input
>>> that calls its own decider specifies a different
>>> sequence of steps than this same input to a decider
>>> that it does not call.

>> It does indeed so make sure, since taking those irrelevant details into
>> account would change the nature of the problem, making it less tractable.

> In other words you are too fucking stupid to
> recognize what is essentially the infinite
> recursion behavior pattern. It that it?

No, not at all.  You shouldn't be so gratuitously offensive.  It doesn't
add anything to the discussion.

I was talking at an abstract level, beyond your understanding.  When such
happens, you should just drop out of the conversation rather than sully
it with obscenities.

> -- 
> Copyright 2025 Olcott

> My 28 year goal has been to make
> "true on the basis of meaning" computable.

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

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#135986 — Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2025-11-18 09:15 -0600
SubjectRe: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)
Message-ID<10fi2jg$1krmb$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#135982
On 11/18/2025 7:45 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 11/17/2025 6:01 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>> [ Newsgroups: trimmed ]
> 
>>> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 11/17/2025 5:38 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>>>> [ .... ]
> 
>>>>>> *you cannot begin to understand the nuances that this entails*
> 
>>>>> There's nothing particularly remarkable in what follows.
> 
>>>>>> Turing machine deciders only compute a mapping from
>>>>>> their [finite string] inputs to an accept or reject
>>>>>> state on the basis that this [finite string] input
>>>>>> specifies or fails to specify a semantic or syntactic
>>>>>> property.
> 
>>>>> Yes.  So what?  You can omit the redundant "on the basis that ... or
>>>>> syntactic property" without any loss.  You could omit the redundant
>>>>> "only", too.
> 
>>>>>> *This one single point makes your whole view a compete failure*
> 
>>>>> Perhaps you could elaborate just how that platitude makes my view a
>>>>> failure.  It's certainly not clear from what you've written.
> 
>>>> The above that I formed myself has key details that
>>>> are simply assumed away from the conventional way
>>>> this is stated:
> 
>>>> In computability theory, the halting problem is
>>>> the problem of determining, from a description
>>>> of an arbitrary computer program and an input,
>>>> whether the program will finish running, or
>>>> continue to run forever.
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem
> 
>>>> Makes sure to not take into account that an input
>>>> that calls its own decider specifies a different
>>>> sequence of steps than this same input to a decider
>>>> that it does not call.
> 
>>> It does indeed so make sure, since taking those irrelevant details into
>>> account would change the nature of the problem, making it less tractable.
> 
>> In other words you are too fucking stupid to
>> recognize what is essentially the infinite
>> recursion behavior pattern. It that it?
> 
> No, not at all.  You shouldn't be so gratuitously offensive.  It doesn't
> add anything to the discussion.
> 

That people have been consistently flat out dishonest
about this every day for three years indicates the
need for escalation.

If you know nothing about programming and only know
math then you should have disclosed that you don't
have the mandatory prerequisites.

> I was talking at an abstract level, beyond your understanding.  When such
> happens, you should just drop out of the conversation rather than sully
> it with obscenities.
> 

*The abstraction simply assumes away these key details*

(a) Halt deciders are required to report on the
actual behavior that their actual input actually
specifies.

(b) The halting problem requires Halt deciders to
report on other than the actual behavior that their
actual input actually specifies making the halting
problem incorrect.

If you don't know anything about programming you
won't be able to understand this.

>> -- 
>> Copyright 2025 Olcott
> 
>> My 28 year goal has been to make
>> "true on the basis of meaning" computable.
> 


-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott

My 28 year goal has been to make
"true on the basis of meaning" computable.

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#135948 — Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)

FromKaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com>
Date2025-11-18 02:28 +0000
SubjectRe: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)
Message-ID<20251117182409.844@kylheku.com>
In reply to#135931
On 2025-11-17, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/17/2025 5:38 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> [ .... ]
>> 
>>> *you cannot begin to understand the nuances that this entails*
>> 
>> There's nothing particularly remarkable in what follows.
>> 
>>> Turing machine deciders only compute a mapping from
>>> their [finite string] inputs to an accept or reject
>>> state on the basis that this [finite string] input
>>> specifies or fails to specify a semantic or syntactic
>>> property.
>> 
>> Yes.  So what?  You can omit the redundant "on the basis that ... or
>> syntactic property" without any loss.  You could omit the redundant
>> "only", too.
>> 
>>> *This one single point makes your whole view a compete failure*
>> 
>> Perhaps you could elaborate just how that platitude makes my view a
>> failure.  It's certainly not clear from what you've written.
>> 
>
> The above that I formed myself has key details that
> are simply assumed away from the conventional way
> this is stated:
>
> In computability theory, the halting problem is
> the problem of determining, from a description
> of an arbitrary computer program and an input,
> whether the program will finish running, or
> continue to run forever.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem
>
> Makes sure to not take into account that an input
> that calls its own decider specifies a different
> sequence of steps than this same input to a decider
> that it does not call.

The input D does not "call its own decider".

It incorporates an implementation of a particular decider algorithm,
appiles it on itself, and then behaves contrary to its output.

> You can disbelieve that DD simulated by HHH does not
> specify recursive simulation the same way that you
> can disbelieve that 2 + 3 = 5.

It does! But (it has been shown with code, even, using
your own framework!) that a recursive simulation can consist
of a regenerating progression of /terminating/ simulations.

It is possible that generation of new simulations never stops;
but the simulations themselves terminate.  (It's also possible that they
don't terminate.)

-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca

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#135960 — Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2025-11-17 21:51 -0600
SubjectRe: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)
Message-ID<10fgqgu$1ai9o$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#135948
On 11/17/2025 8:28 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> On 2025-11-17, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 11/17/2025 5:38 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> [ .... ]
>>>
>>>> *you cannot begin to understand the nuances that this entails*
>>>
>>> There's nothing particularly remarkable in what follows.
>>>
>>>> Turing machine deciders only compute a mapping from
>>>> their [finite string] inputs to an accept or reject
>>>> state on the basis that this [finite string] input
>>>> specifies or fails to specify a semantic or syntactic
>>>> property.
>>>
>>> Yes.  So what?  You can omit the redundant "on the basis that ... or
>>> syntactic property" without any loss.  You could omit the redundant
>>> "only", too.
>>>
>>>> *This one single point makes your whole view a compete failure*
>>>
>>> Perhaps you could elaborate just how that platitude makes my view a
>>> failure.  It's certainly not clear from what you've written.
>>>
>>
>> The above that I formed myself has key details that
>> are simply assumed away from the conventional way
>> this is stated:
>>
>> In computability theory, the halting problem is
>> the problem of determining, from a description
>> of an arbitrary computer program and an input,
>> whether the program will finish running, or
>> continue to run forever.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem
>>
>> Makes sure to not take into account that an input
>> that calls its own decider specifies a different
>> sequence of steps than this same input to a decider
>> that it does not call.
> 
> The input D does not "call its own decider".
> 
> It incorporates an implementation of a particular decider algorithm,
> appiles it on itself, and then behaves contrary to its output.
> 

*From the bottom of page 319 has been adapted to this*
https://www.liarparadox.org/Peter_Linz_HP_317-320.pdf

Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.∞, // accept state
Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn // reject state

*Keep repeating unless aborted*
(a) Ĥ copies its input ⟨Ĥ⟩
(b) Ĥ invokes embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
(c) embedded_H simulates ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩

Input ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ does call its own decider Ĥ.embedded_H

>> You can disbelieve that DD simulated by HHH does not
>> specify recursive simulation the same way that you
>> can disbelieve that 2 + 3 = 5.
> 
> It does! But (it has been shown with code, even, using
> your own framework!) that a recursive simulation can consist
> of a regenerating progression of /terminating/ simulations.
> 
> It is possible that generation of new simulations never stops;
> but the simulations themselves terminate.  (It's also possible that they
> don't terminate.)
> 


-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott

My 28 year goal has been to make
"true on the basis of meaning" computable.

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#135980 — Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)

FromTristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk>
Date2025-11-18 13:16 +0000
SubjectRe: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)
Message-ID<10fhrio$1ibqp$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#135928
On 17/11/2025 23:38, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> [ .... ]
> 
>> *you cannot begin to understand the nuances that this entails*
> 
> There's nothing particularly remarkable in what follows.
> 
>> Turing machine deciders only compute a mapping from
>> their [finite string] inputs to an accept or reject
>> state on the basis that this [finite string] input
>> specifies or fails to specify a semantic or syntactic
>> property.

A turing machine has a machine state (which could include operating a
loom or gigafactory) and it is sequenced across time so a nonterminating
program always has a specific semantic property. It's a specific
semantic property that a universal decider is deciding on, that an
assumed machine clock keeps ticking, but non-universal deciders (unsafe
deciders and safe deciders that exist) may decide on syntactic
properties and be wrong sometimes. Olcott may discuss here properties of
the union of safe, unsafe, and universal deciders and of the programs
over which they're right or over which they're wrong.


Formally, is termination just that the sequence of programmed sequences
formed of simulations of increasing leading N cycles of the program has
an N over which all leading programmed sequences are identical (ie, the
sequence of leading sequences converges) and where I/O or other
nondeterministic steps don't exist (ie, are part of a machine
reconfiguration), or am I missing some nuance?

Do we take that a machine with rule {A,B => Write A, B} terminates there
or is nonterminating at that rule?

--
Tristan Wibberley

The message body is Copyright (C) 2025 Tristan Wibberley except
citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that you may,
of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it
verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to
promote my greatness and general superiority without misrepresentation
of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general
superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT train
any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI that
will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.

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#135947 — Re: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)

FromKaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com>
Date2025-11-18 02:23 +0000
SubjectRe: "true on the basis of meaning" AKA Analytic(Olcott)
Message-ID<20251117181648.261@kylheku.com>
In reply to#135922
On 2025-11-17, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
> *you cannot begin to understand the nuances that this entails*

You wouldn't recognize a subtle nuance if it blew off your
right arm with 12 gauge. :)

> *you cannot begin to understand the nuances that this entails*
> *you cannot begin to understand the nuances that this entails*
>
> Turing machine deciders only compute a mapping from
> their [finite string] inputs to an accept or reject
> state on the basis that this [finite string] input
> specifies or fails to specify a semantic or syntactic
> property.

Yep, and that's exactly what our diagonal case D is.
A finite length program whose syntax and semantics specify
halting or not.

You're not showing a proof that D consists of anything else.

-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca

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#135885 — eric is not a crank

Fromdart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid>
Date2025-11-17 11:41 -0800
Subjecteric is not a crank
Message-ID<10fftoc$111ej$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#135873
On 11/17/25 9:29 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 11/17/2025 11:00 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 11/17/2025 7:21 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/16/2025 4:20 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> 
>>>>>>> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>> [ .... ]
> 
>>>>>>>> That is not the way that the world works. A brilliant
>>>>>>>> tenured PhD computer science professor could have been
>>>>>>>> fired merely because he brought up the idea that the
>>>>>>>> halting problem might be wrong. No one bothered to look
>>>>>>>> at any of the words that he wrote. The fact that he
>>>>>>>> challenged conventional wisdom was considered blasphemy.
> 
>>>>>>> I put it to you that this has never happened.  Tenured professors don't
>>>>>>> go around asserting falsehoods in their own field.
> 
>>>>>> It is not a falsehood.
> 
>>>>> I put it to you again, that no tenured professor has ever been sacked for
>>>>> this reason.
> 
>>>> https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/PHPhistory.pdf
> 
>>> What's that got to do with anything?  There is no indication of anybody
>>> being sacked in that article.  Nor in the article cited in the other
>>> reply you made to my last post.
> 
> 
>> You have to read it all the way through.
> 
> I have done now, more or less.  Nobody got sacked.

uhhh ... not that carefully

> 
>>    What strikes me most about these reviews is that
>>    they do not point out any error in my arguments
>>    and proofs. They point out, with accompanying insults,
>>    that I am making a claim that is contrary to the
>>    current orthodoxy. I know that. They know that Turing
>>    proved that the Halting Problem is incomputable; it's
>>    in all the textbooks. So they know from my paper's
>>    abstract that the paper is wrong. So they feel no
>>    need to read my arguments carefully.
> 
> That sounds like another crank.  Some of the reviewers did indeed point

bruh eric is by no means a crank:  https://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~hehner

because u don't read things let me bullet point:
  - comp sci phd in 1974
  - full prof in 1983
  - chair in software engineering in 2001
  - emeritus in 2012 till now
  - this is all university of toronto too, big name in the field

...you didn't even make it thru the 1st paragraph coherent where in 1989 
his paper was rejected by a paper that he was literally an editor of...

the guy is actually personal friends with geoffrey hinton

if he's a crank then we're all fucking cranks bro

> out errors.  Note the way he says "current orthodoxy", as though
> mathematics were a question of fashion.  It's not.  I would bet a large
> amount of money on him not having a degree in mathematics, much like
> yourself.  Perhaps one or more of his reviewers did.  The Halting Theorem
> is wholly a theorem of mathematics, and only secondarily about computer
> science.
> 
> One can understand the reviewers not wanting to get into the sort of
> fruitless discussions which happen here.
> 
>> -- 
>> Copyright 2025 Olcott
> 
>> My 28 year goal has been to make
>> "true on the basis of meaning" computable.
> 

-- 
a burnt out swe investigating into why our tooling doesn't involve
basic semantic proofs like halting analysis

please excuse my pseudo-pyscript,

~ nick

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#135887 — Re: eric is not a crank

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2025-11-17 13:44 -0600
SubjectRe: eric is not a crank
Message-ID<10fftuu$139p3$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#135885
On 11/17/2025 1:41 PM, dart200 wrote:
> On 11/17/25 9:29 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 11/17/2025 11:00 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 11/17/2025 7:21 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>>> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/16/2025 4:20 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> [ .... ]
>>
>>>>>>>>> That is not the way that the world works. A brilliant
>>>>>>>>> tenured PhD computer science professor could have been
>>>>>>>>> fired merely because he brought up the idea that the
>>>>>>>>> halting problem might be wrong. No one bothered to look
>>>>>>>>> at any of the words that he wrote. The fact that he
>>>>>>>>> challenged conventional wisdom was considered blasphemy.
>>
>>>>>>>> I put it to you that this has never happened.  Tenured 
>>>>>>>> professors don't
>>>>>>>> go around asserting falsehoods in their own field.
>>
>>>>>>> It is not a falsehood.
>>
>>>>>> I put it to you again, that no tenured professor has ever been 
>>>>>> sacked for
>>>>>> this reason.
>>
>>>>> https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/PHPhistory.pdf
>>
>>>> What's that got to do with anything?  There is no indication of anybody
>>>> being sacked in that article.  Nor in the article cited in the other
>>>> reply you made to my last post.
>>
>>
>>> You have to read it all the way through.
>>
>> I have done now, more or less.  Nobody got sacked.
> 
> uhhh ... not that carefully
> 
>>
>>>    What strikes me most about these reviews is that
>>>    they do not point out any error in my arguments
>>>    and proofs. They point out, with accompanying insults,
>>>    that I am making a claim that is contrary to the
>>>    current orthodoxy. I know that. They know that Turing
>>>    proved that the Halting Problem is incomputable; it's
>>>    in all the textbooks. So they know from my paper's
>>>    abstract that the paper is wrong. So they feel no
>>>    need to read my arguments carefully.
>>
>> That sounds like another crank.  Some of the reviewers did indeed point
> 
> bruh eric is by no means a crank:  https://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~hehner
> 
> because u don't read things let me bullet point:
>   - comp sci phd in 1974
>   - full prof in 1983
>   - chair in software engineering in 2001
>   - emeritus in 2012 till now
>   - this is all university of toronto too, big name in the field
> 
> ...you didn't even make it thru the 1st paragraph coherent where in 1989 
> his paper was rejected by a paper that he was literally an editor of...
> 
> the guy is actually personal friends with geoffrey hinton
> 
> if he's a crank then we're all fucking cranks bro
> 

Yeah for our side !!!

>> out errors.  Note the way he says "current orthodoxy", as though
>> mathematics were a question of fashion.  It's not.  I would bet a large
>> amount of money on him not having a degree in mathematics, much like
>> yourself.  Perhaps one or more of his reviewers did.  The Halting Theorem
>> is wholly a theorem of mathematics, and only secondarily about computer
>> science.
>>
>> One can understand the reviewers not wanting to get into the sort of
>> fruitless discussions which happen here.
>>
>>> -- 
>>> Copyright 2025 Olcott
>>
>>> My 28 year goal has been to make
>>> "true on the basis of meaning" computable.
>>
> 


-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott

My 28 year goal has been to make
"true on the basis of meaning" computable.

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#135888 — Re: eric is not a crank

FromAlan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Date2025-11-17 20:34 +0000
SubjectRe: eric is not a crank
Message-ID<10fg0t6$2fft$1@news.muc.de>
In reply to#135885
dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
> On 11/17/25 9:29 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 11/17/2025 11:00 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 11/17/2025 7:21 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:

[ .... ]

>>>>>> I put it to you again, that no tenured professor has ever been
>>>>>> sacked for this reason.

>>>>> https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/PHPhistory.pdf

>>>> What's that got to do with anything?  There is no indication of
>>>> anybody being sacked in that article.  Nor in the article cited in
>>>> the other reply you made to my last post.


>>> You have to read it all the way through.

>> I have done now, more or less.  Nobody got sacked.

> uhhh ... not that carefully

I've read Stoddart's paper through pretty thoroughly, and it's full of
holes.  I'm intending to reply to one of PO's posts with details.

>>>    What strikes me most about these reviews is that
>>>    they do not point out any error in my arguments
>>>    and proofs. They point out, with accompanying insults,
>>>    that I am making a claim that is contrary to the
>>>    current orthodoxy. I know that. They know that Turing
>>>    proved that the Halting Problem is incomputable; it's
>>>    in all the textbooks. So they know from my paper's
>>>    abstract that the paper is wrong. So they feel no
>>>    need to read my arguments carefully.

>> That sounds like another crank.  Some of the reviewers did indeed point

> bruh eric is by no means a crank:  https://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~hehner

He may not be a crank when writing about computer science.  But he's
seemingly out of his depth with mathematics.

> because u don't read things let me bullet point:
>  - comp sci phd in 1974
>  - full prof in 1983
>  - chair in software engineering in 2001
>  - emeritus in 2012 till now
>  - this is all university of toronto too, big name in the field

> ...you didn't even make it thru the 1st paragraph coherent where in 1989 
> his paper was rejected by a paper that he was literally an editor of...

I did.

> the guy is actually personal friends with geoffrey hinton

Who?  What's that got to do with anything.

> if he's a crank then we're all fucking cranks bro

No.  I'm suggesting he's a mathematics crank, but capable in computer
science.  The concept of somebody being a crank in a restricted area, but
competent in their own speciality just occurred to me now.

>> out errors.  Note the way he says "current orthodoxy", as though
>> mathematics were a question of fashion.  It's not.  I would bet a large
>> amount of money on him not having a degree in mathematics, much like
>> yourself.  Perhaps one or more of his reviewers did.  The Halting Theorem
>> is wholly a theorem of mathematics, and only secondarily about computer
>> science.

>> One can understand the reviewers not wanting to get into the sort of
>> fruitless discussions which happen here.

> -- 
> a burnt out swe investigating into why our tooling doesn't involve
> basic semantic proofs like halting analysis

> please excuse my pseudo-pyscript,

> ~ nick

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

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#135889 — Re: eric is not a crank

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2025-11-17 14:45 -0600
SubjectRe: eric is not a crank
Message-ID<10fg1hj$14dco$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#135888
On 11/17/2025 2:34 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
>> On 11/17/25 9:29 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 11/17/2025 11:00 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/17/2025 7:21 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> 
> [ .... ]
> 
>>>>>>> I put it to you again, that no tenured professor has ever been
>>>>>>> sacked for this reason.
> 
>>>>>> https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/PHPhistory.pdf
> 
>>>>> What's that got to do with anything?  There is no indication of
>>>>> anybody being sacked in that article.  Nor in the article cited in
>>>>> the other reply you made to my last post.
> 
> 
>>>> You have to read it all the way through.
> 
>>> I have done now, more or less.  Nobody got sacked.
> 
>> uhhh ... not that carefully
> 
> I've read Stoddart's paper through pretty thoroughly, and it's full of
> holes.  I'm intending to reply to one of PO's posts with details.
> 
>>>>     What strikes me most about these reviews is that
>>>>     they do not point out any error in my arguments
>>>>     and proofs. They point out, with accompanying insults,
>>>>     that I am making a claim that is contrary to the
>>>>     current orthodoxy. I know that. They know that Turing
>>>>     proved that the Halting Problem is incomputable; it's
>>>>     in all the textbooks. So they know from my paper's
>>>>     abstract that the paper is wrong. So they feel no
>>>>     need to read my arguments carefully.
> 
>>> That sounds like another crank.  Some of the reviewers did indeed point
> 
>> bruh eric is by no means a crank:  https://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~hehner
> 
> He may not be a crank when writing about computer science.  But he's
> seemingly out of his depth with mathematics.
> 
>> because u don't read things let me bullet point:
>>   - comp sci phd in 1974
>>   - full prof in 1983
>>   - chair in software engineering in 2001
>>   - emeritus in 2012 till now
>>   - this is all university of toronto too, big name in the field
> 
>> ...you didn't even make it thru the 1st paragraph coherent where in 1989
>> his paper was rejected by a paper that he was literally an editor of...
> 
> I did.
> 
>> the guy is actually personal friends with geoffrey hinton
> 
> Who?  What's that got to do with anything.
> 
>> if he's a crank then we're all fucking cranks bro
> 
> No.  I'm suggesting he's a mathematics crank, but capable in computer
> science.  The concept of somebody being a crank in a restricted area, but
> competent in their own speciality just occurred to me now.
> 

news://news.eternal-september.org/10ffrgd$12fds$1@dont-email.me
On 11/17/2025 1:02 PM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:>
 > What is the reasoning that concludes that the
 > reasonings of Turing and of Goedel have a sound
 > basis and does /that/ reasoning also have a sound
 > basis?
 >


-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott

My 28 year goal has been to make
"true on the basis of meaning" computable.

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#135893 — Re: eric is not a crank

Fromdart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid>
Date2025-11-17 13:24 -0800
SubjectRe: eric is not a crank
Message-ID<10fg3qh$14raf$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#135888
On 11/17/25 12:34 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
>> On 11/17/25 9:29 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 11/17/2025 11:00 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/17/2025 7:21 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> 
> [ .... ]
> 
>>>>>>> I put it to you again, that no tenured professor has ever been
>>>>>>> sacked for this reason.
> 
>>>>>> https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/PHPhistory.pdf
> 
>>>>> What's that got to do with anything?  There is no indication of
>>>>> anybody being sacked in that article.  Nor in the article cited in
>>>>> the other reply you made to my last post.
> 
> 
>>>> You have to read it all the way through.
> 
>>> I have done now, more or less.  Nobody got sacked.
> 
>> uhhh ... not that carefully
> 
> I've read Stoddart's paper through pretty thoroughly, and it's full of
> holes.  I'm intending to reply to one of PO's posts with details.
> 
>>>>     What strikes me most about these reviews is that
>>>>     they do not point out any error in my arguments
>>>>     and proofs. They point out, with accompanying insults,
>>>>     that I am making a claim that is contrary to the
>>>>     current orthodoxy. I know that. They know that Turing
>>>>     proved that the Halting Problem is incomputable; it's
>>>>     in all the textbooks. So they know from my paper's
>>>>     abstract that the paper is wrong. So they feel no
>>>>     need to read my arguments carefully.
> 
>>> That sounds like another crank.  Some of the reviewers did indeed point
> 
>> bruh eric is by no means a crank:  https://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~hehner
> 
> He may not be a crank when writing about computer science.  But he's
> seemingly out of his depth with mathematics.
> 
>> because u don't read things let me bullet point:
>>   - comp sci phd in 1974
>>   - full prof in 1983
>>   - chair in software engineering in 2001
>>   - emeritus in 2012 till now
>>   - this is all university of toronto too, big name in the field
> 
>> ...you didn't even make it thru the 1st paragraph coherent where in 1989
>> his paper was rejected by a paper that he was literally an editor of...
> 
> I did.
> 
>> the guy is actually personal friends with geoffrey hinton
> 
> Who?  What's that got to do with anything.
> 
>> if he's a crank then we're all fucking cranks bro
> 
> No.  I'm suggesting he's a mathematics crank, but capable in computer
> science.  The concept of somebody being a crank in a restricted area, but
> competent in their own speciality just occurred to me now.

set theory isn't used to justify the halting problem, it's justified 
within comp sci using turing machines as the axiomatic base (read 
turing's paper, specifically §8)

the halting problem, or more broadly semantic paradoxes (rice's theorem) 
is a comp sci problem, not a set theory problem

if anything turing using the comp sci problem to justify the set theory 
result by godel, and that's why they are thought to be equivalent.

eric is not cranking out of his league

> 
>>> out errors.  Note the way he says "current orthodoxy", as though
>>> mathematics were a question of fashion.  It's not.  I would bet a large
>>> amount of money on him not having a degree in mathematics, much like
>>> yourself.  Perhaps one or more of his reviewers did.  The Halting Theorem
>>> is wholly a theorem of mathematics, and only secondarily about computer
>>> science.
> 
>>> One can understand the reviewers not wanting to get into the sort of
>>> fruitless discussions which happen here.


-- 
a burnt out swe investigating into why our tooling doesn't involve
basic semantic proofs like halting analysis

please excuse my pseudo-pyscript,

~ nick

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#135895 — Re: eric is not a crank

Fromdart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid>
Date2025-11-17 13:30 -0800
SubjectRe: eric is not a crank
Message-ID<10fg454$14raf$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#135893
On 11/17/25 1:24 PM, dart200 wrote:
> On 11/17/25 12:34 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>> dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 11/17/25 9:29 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 11/17/2025 11:00 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/17/2025 7:21 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>
>> [ .... ]
>>
>>>>>>>> I put it to you again, that no tenured professor has ever been
>>>>>>>> sacked for this reason.
>>
>>>>>>> https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/PHPhistory.pdf
>>
>>>>>> What's that got to do with anything?  There is no indication of
>>>>>> anybody being sacked in that article.  Nor in the article cited in
>>>>>> the other reply you made to my last post.
>>
>>
>>>>> You have to read it all the way through.
>>
>>>> I have done now, more or less.  Nobody got sacked.
>>
>>> uhhh ... not that carefully
>>
>> I've read Stoddart's paper through pretty thoroughly, and it's full of
>> holes.  I'm intending to reply to one of PO's posts with details.
>>
>>>>>     What strikes me most about these reviews is that
>>>>>     they do not point out any error in my arguments
>>>>>     and proofs. They point out, with accompanying insults,
>>>>>     that I am making a claim that is contrary to the
>>>>>     current orthodoxy. I know that. They know that Turing
>>>>>     proved that the Halting Problem is incomputable; it's
>>>>>     in all the textbooks. So they know from my paper's
>>>>>     abstract that the paper is wrong. So they feel no
>>>>>     need to read my arguments carefully.
>>
>>>> That sounds like another crank.  Some of the reviewers did indeed point
>>
>>> bruh eric is by no means a crank:  https://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~hehner
>>
>> He may not be a crank when writing about computer science.  But he's
>> seemingly out of his depth with mathematics.
>>
>>> because u don't read things let me bullet point:
>>>   - comp sci phd in 1974
>>>   - full prof in 1983
>>>   - chair in software engineering in 2001
>>>   - emeritus in 2012 till now
>>>   - this is all university of toronto too, big name in the field
>>
>>> ...you didn't even make it thru the 1st paragraph coherent where in 1989
>>> his paper was rejected by a paper that he was literally an editor of...
>>
>> I did.
>>
>>> the guy is actually personal friends with geoffrey hinton
>>
>> Who?  What's that got to do with anything.
>>
>>> if he's a crank then we're all fucking cranks bro
>>
>> No.  I'm suggesting he's a mathematics crank, but capable in computer
>> science.  The concept of somebody being a crank in a restricted area, but
>> competent in their own speciality just occurred to me now.
> 
> set theory isn't used to justify the halting problem, it's justified 
> within comp sci using turing machines as the axiomatic base (read 
> turing's paper, specifically §8)
> 
> the halting problem, or more broadly semantic paradoxes (rice's theorem) 
> is a comp sci problem, not a set theory problem
> 
> if anything turing using the comp sci problem to justify the set theory 
> result by godel, and that's why they are thought to be equivalent.
> 
> eric is not cranking out of his league

the fact someone of even a status like eric cannot start a proper 
academic conversation on this is problem my dude

> 
>>
>>>> out errors.  Note the way he says "current orthodoxy", as though
>>>> mathematics were a question of fashion.  It's not.  I would bet a large
>>>> amount of money on him not having a degree in mathematics, much like
>>>> yourself.  Perhaps one or more of his reviewers did.  The Halting 
>>>> Theorem
>>>> is wholly a theorem of mathematics, and only secondarily about computer
>>>> science.
>>
>>>> One can understand the reviewers not wanting to get into the sort of
>>>> fruitless discussions which happen here.
> 

-- 
a burnt out swe investigating into why our tooling doesn't involve
basic semantic proofs like halting analysis

please excuse my pseudo-pyscript,

~ nick

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