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Groups > comp.theory > #106147
| From | Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory |
| Subject | Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt |
| Date | 2024-06-03 17:58 +0300 |
| Organization | - |
| Message-ID | <v3klms$3uh1o$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (5 earlier) <v3fpjd$2t7mj$3@dont-email.me> <v3h8qg$394r1$1@dont-email.me> <v3htdf$3bkv5$6@dont-email.me> <v3k1c8$3r3ol$1@dont-email.me> <v3kffr$3t5s5$7@dont-email.me> |
On 2024-06-03 13:12:27 +0000, olcott said:
> On 6/3/2024 4:11 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-06-02 13:51:43 +0000, olcott said:
>>
>>> On 6/2/2024 3:00 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 2024-06-01 18:34:22 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>
>>>>> On 6/1/2024 1:28 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>> Am Fri, 31 May 2024 09:25:40 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>> On 5/31/2024 2:50 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>> Op 31.mei.2024 om 00:01 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>> On 5/30/2024 4:54 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Am Thu, 30 May 2024 09:55:24 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> typedef int (*ptr)(); // ptr is pointer to int function in C
>>>>>>>>>>> 00 int H(ptr p, ptr i);
>>>>>>>>>>> 01 int D(ptr p)
>>>>>>>>>>> 02 {
>>>>>>>>>>> 03 int Halt_Status = H(p, p);
>>>>>>>>>>> 04 if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>>>>>>> 05 HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>>>>>> 06 return Halt_Status;
>>>>>>>>>>> 07 }
>>>>>>>>>>> 08
>>>>>>>>>>> 09 int main()
>>>>>>>>>>> 10 {
>>>>>>>>>>> 11 H(D,D);
>>>>>>>>>>> 12 return 0;
>>>>>>>>>>> 13 }
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone with sufficient knowledge of C can easily determine that D
>>>>>>>>>>> correctly emulated by any *pure function* H (using an x86 emulator)
>>>>>>>>>>> cannot possibly reach its own simulated final state at line 06 and
>>>>>>>>>>> halt.
>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, of course not, if H doesn’t halt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Or maybe you did not know that every computation that never reaches
>>>>>>>>> its own final state *DOES NOT HALT* even if it stops running because
>>>>>>>>> it is no longer simulated.
>>>>>>>> Since the claim is that H is also a computation, it holds for H, as
>>>>>>>> well. That means that H *DOES NOT HALT* even if it stops running because
>>>>>>>> it is no longer simulated.
>>>>>>> *pure function H definitely halts you are confused*
>>>>>> The fuck? If H halts, then D can definitely reach past line 4.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Trying to get away with changing the subject away from this*
>>>>> *is known as the strawman deception*
>>>>>
>>>>> DD correctly simulated by pure function HH cannot possibly reach
>>>>> its own final state at line 06 in any finite number of steps of
>>>>> correct simulation.
>>>>
>>>> Your "DD correctly simulated by pure function HH" is an attempt
>>>> to deceive. Otherwise you would just say "DD" because that is
>>>> what the phrase means.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It turns out that "that is what the phrase means" is merely a false
>>> assumption.
>>
>> No, it is not. Knowledge about meanings of phrases that are not
>> defined in the opus where they are used is empirical knwoledge
>> that ultimately comes from observations. Meanings of individual
>> words and many phrases are documented in dictionaries. Other
>> phrases get their meanig from their constituents and constitution
>> in a way that is documented in grammar books. If you want a
>> meaning that cannot be found in dictionaries and grammar bookd
>> you need to define.
>>
>> In this particular case the phrase is "DD correctly simulated by
>> pure function HH". This phrase is a composite of two subphrases:
>> the first one is "DD" and the sencond one is "correctly simulated
>> by HH". This kind of phrases are used to identify something so
>> that something can be said about it without saying the same about
>> other things. The second part is needed if the first part is a
>> generic term that alone may denote both things intended to be
>> included and things intended to be excluded from the meaning
>> of the phrase. So the phrase "DD correctly simulated by pure
>> function HH" makes a distinction between those DD that are or
>> have been or will be a model of correct simulation by HH and
>> those that are not and nave not been and will not be. But the
>> former kind of DD and the latter kind of DD have no intrinsic
>> difference that would require exclusion of the latter form
>> the sentence. In particular, DD's ablility to reach its own
>> final state at line 06 does not depend on whther HH will ever
>> simulate it (correctly or otherwise.
>>
>
> *Repeat until correct rebuttal*
>
> DD correctly emulated by any HH that can possibly exist DOES NOT HALT
> DD correctly emulated by any HH that can possibly exist DOES NOT HALT
> DD correctly emulated by any HH that can possibly exist DOES NOT HALT
>
> typedef int (*ptr)(); // ptr is pointer to int function in C
> 00 int HH(ptr p, ptr i);
> 01 int DD(ptr p)
> 02 {
> 03 int Halt_Status = HH(p, p);
> 04 if (Halt_Status)
> 05 HERE: goto HERE;
> 06 return Halt_Status;
> 07 }
>
> _DD()
> [00001c22] 55 push ebp
> [00001c23] 8bec mov ebp,esp
> [00001c25] 51 push ecx
> [00001c26] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
> [00001c29] 50 push eax ; push DD 1c22
> [00001c2a] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> [00001c2d] 51 push ecx ; push DD 1c22
> [00001c2e] e80ff7ffff call 00001342 ; call HH
> [00001c33] 83c408 add esp,+08
> [00001c36] 8945fc mov [ebp-04],eax
> [00001c39] 837dfc00 cmp dword [ebp-04],+00
> [00001c3d] 7402 jz 00001c41
> [00001c3f] ebfe jmp 00001c3f
> [00001c41] 8b45fc mov eax,[ebp-04]
> [00001c44] 8be5 mov esp,ebp
> [00001c46] 5d pop ebp
> [00001c47] c3 ret
> Size in bytes:(0038) [00001c47]
Nice to see that you don't want tu argue agains dictionaries and
grammar books and me but prefer to change the subject instead.
--
Mikko
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Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-05-30 21:54 +0000
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-30 17:01 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-05-30 21:37 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-05-31 09:50 +0200
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-31 09:25 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-05-31 17:37 +0200
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-31 10:54 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-05-31 18:18 +0200
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-31 12:01 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-05-31 19:53 +0200
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-05-31 20:15 +0200
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-31 13:22 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-05-31 20:55 +0200
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-31 14:07 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-05-31 21:35 +0200
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt --- Mike Terry olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-05-31 14:54 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt --- Mike Terry "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-01 10:49 +0200
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt --- Mike Terry olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 10:15 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt --- Mike Terry Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-01 11:23 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt --- Mike Terry Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-02 10:49 +0300
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt --- Mike Terry olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-02 08:33 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt --- Mike Terry Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-02 13:23 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt --- Mike Terry Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-03 11:09 +0300
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt --- Mike Terry olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 08:07 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt --- Mike Terry Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-03 20:15 +0300
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt --- Mike Terry olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 14:28 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-06-01 14:43 +0200
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-06-01 14:42 +0200
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-01 08:57 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-06-01 14:41 +0200
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-05-31 19:52 +0200
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-01 18:33 +0000
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 13:37 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-01 14:44 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-02 09:51 +0000
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-05-31 19:48 +0200
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-01 10:56 +0300
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 09:44 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-02 10:56 +0300
Deciders are ONLY accountable for their actual inputs --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-02 08:46 -0500
Re: Deciders are ONLY accountable for their actual inputs --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-02 13:23 -0400
Re: Deciders are ONLY accountable for their actual inputs --- Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-03 11:47 +0300
Re: Deciders are ONLY accountable for their actual inputs --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 08:09 -0500
Re: Deciders are ONLY accountable for their actual inputs --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-03 20:56 -0400
Re: Deciders are ONLY accountable for their actual inputs --- Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-03 11:35 +0300
Re: Deciders are ONLY accountable for their actual inputs --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 07:52 -0500
Re: Deciders are ONLY accountable for their actual inputs --- Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-03 17:56 +0300
Re: Deciders are ONLY accountable for their actual inputs --- "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-03 22:15 +0200
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-01 18:28 +0000
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 13:34 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-01 14:47 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-02 11:00 +0300
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-02 08:51 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-02 13:23 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-06-02 21:02 +0200
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-03 12:11 +0300
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 08:12 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-03 17:58 +0300
DD correctly simulated by HH cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 and halt olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 13:25 -0500
Re: DD correctly simulated by HH cannot possibly reach past its own line 03 and halt Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-04 11:54 +0300
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-03 22:18 +0200
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 16:18 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-03 20:56 -0400
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt immibis <news@immibis.com> - 2024-05-31 10:39 +0200
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-01 18:13 +0000
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 13:23 -0500
Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06 and halt Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-01 16:29 -0400
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