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Groups > comp.sys.raspberry-pi > #38040 > unrolled thread

Librecad on RasPiOS

Started bybp@www.zefox.net
First post2026-06-22 16:36 +0000
Last post2026-06-25 23:31 +0000
Articles 6 on this page of 46 — 11 participants

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  Librecad on RasPiOS bp@www.zefox.net - 2026-06-22 16:36 +0000
    Re: Librecad on RasPiOS Chris Townley <news@cct-net.co.uk> - 2026-06-22 18:56 +0100
      Re: Librecad on RasPiOS bp@www.zefox.net - 2026-06-22 19:33 +0000
        Re: Librecad on RasPiOS rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-22 20:18 +0000
          Re: Librecad on RasPiOS bp@www.zefox.net - 2026-06-22 21:20 +0000
            Re: Librecad on RasPiOS rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-22 23:29 +0000
            Re: Librecad on RasPiOS Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-23 08:29 +0100
        Re: Librecad on RasPiOS Chris Townley <news@cct-net.co.uk> - 2026-06-22 22:48 +0100
    Re: Librecad on RasPiOS 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 <jmj@energokod.gda.pl> - 2026-06-22 20:11 +0200
      Re: Librecad on RasPiOS Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-06-22 23:01 +0100
      Re: Librecad on RasPiOS bp@www.zefox.net - 2026-06-22 23:55 +0000
        Re: Librecad on RasPiOS The Nomad <nomad@the.desert.invalid> - 2026-06-23 07:01 +0000
          Re: Librecad on RasPiOS bp@www.zefox.net - 2026-06-23 11:59 +0000
            Re: Librecad on RasPiOS bp@www.zefox.net - 2026-06-24 21:42 +0000
    Re: Librecad on RasPiOS Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-06-22 20:19 +0100
      Re: Librecad on RasPiOS bp@www.zefox.net - 2026-06-22 20:31 +0000
        Re: Librecad on RasPiOS Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-06-22 22:55 +0100
          Re: Librecad on RasPiOS Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-22 22:48 +0000
          Re: Librecad on RasPiOS bp@www.zefox.net - 2026-06-23 00:20 +0000
            Re: Librecad on RasPiOS Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-23 03:57 +0000
              Re: Librecad on RasPiOS bp@www.zefox.net - 2026-06-23 12:10 +0000
                Re: Librecad on RasPiOS Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-06-23 13:28 +0100
                Re: Librecad on RasPiOS Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-24 01:08 +0000
                  Re: Librecad on RasPiOS bp@www.zefox.net - 2026-06-24 13:52 +0000
                    Re: Librecad on RasPiOS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-24 16:43 +0100
                      Re: Librecad on RasPiOS bp@www.zefox.net - 2026-06-26 14:43 +0000
            Re: Librecad on RasPiOS RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> - 2026-06-23 04:28 +0000
              Re: Librecad on RasPiOS bp@www.zefox.net - 2026-06-23 12:25 +0000
          Re: Librecad on RasPiOS RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> - 2026-06-23 04:22 +0000
            Re: Librecad on RasPiOS Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-23 07:21 +0000
              Re: Librecad on RasPiOS RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> - 2026-06-23 08:19 +0000
                Re: Librecad on RasPiOS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-23 10:23 +0100
                Re: Librecad on RasPiOS Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-24 01:10 +0000
                  Re: Librecad on RasPiOS Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-06-24 13:26 +0100
                    Re: Librecad on RasPiOS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-24 13:44 +0100
                      Re: Librecad on RasPiOS scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2026-06-25 16:01 +0000
                        Re: Librecad on RasPiOS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-25 17:05 +0100
                        Re: Librecad on RasPiOS Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 23:32 +0000
                          Re: Librecad on RasPiOS rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-26 02:01 +0000
                            Re: Librecad on RasPiOS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-26 10:05 +0100
                              Re: Librecad on RasPiOS rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-26 17:51 +0000
                                Re: Librecad on RasPiOS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-26 21:51 +0100
                          Re: Librecad on RasPiOS scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2026-06-26 20:22 +0000
                    Re: Librecad on RasPiOS Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-24 21:59 +0000
                      Re: Librecad on RasPiOS Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-06-25 14:24 +0100
                        Re: Librecad on RasPiOS Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 23:31 +0000

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#38092

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-06-26 17:51 +0000
Message-ID<na7sgaF6l0rU5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#38090
On Fri, 26 Jun 2026 10:05:14 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> I think there is a lot of 'I want do it this way and Wayland cant'
> Without the concomitant 'why on earth are you doing it that way?' and
> 'because that's the only way you can in X windows'.

Technical debt. The Motif GUIs I worked with went back to the '90s and had 
been getting the job done for 30 years or so. We'd looked at moving to a 
more 'modern' widget toolkit but it would have meant a complete rewrite, 
with no real improvement in functionality or even loss of some features. 

In that case the front end was replaced with a browser based Angular app. 
It wasn't always easy to make it work 'the same'. As you know, users are 
very big on 'the same'.

The difference was it was our choice not something forced by distros 
saying they would only support Wayland and not X11. Personally, I don't 
care since I no longer have to work on the GUIs but I can see why KiCad, 
Xfce, or other projects with a long history on X11 get upset by seemingly 
arbitrary Wayland decisions.

The fortunate are those that used Gtk, Qt, or other tool kits that sat on 
X11 but provided a level of abstraction. The headaches get passed to the 
Qt and Gtk developers.

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#38094

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-06-26 21:51 +0100
Message-ID<111mooh$qk78$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#38092
On 26/06/2026 18:51, rbowman wrote:
>   I can see why KiCad,
> Xfce, or other projects with a long history on X11 get upset by seemingly
> arbitrary Wayland decisions.
> 
Well yes, but in the end they can get users to install X

> The fortunate are those that used Gtk, Qt, or other tool kits that sat on
> X11 but provided a level of abstraction. The headaches get passed to the
> Qt and Gtk developers.

Except the toolkit maintainers wont cover the very edge cases.

-- 
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
..I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

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#38093

Fromscott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter)
Date2026-06-26 20:22 +0000
Message-ID<ccB%R.9$mC89.2@fx13.iad>
In reply to#38088
In article <111kdqk$4v7h$7@dont-email.me>,
Lawrence D'Oliveiro  <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 16:01:58 GMT, Scott Alfter wrote:
>
>> KiCad has fairly comprehensive symbol and footprint libraries.
>
>They are the ones still insisting they want application-level control
>over window layout, aren't they. Which is why they hate Wayland, and
>are resisting the move to it kicking and screaming.

Figures our resident troll would be a Wayland fanboi. :-P That's far from
the only problem with Wayland.  Check out this compilation:

https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277

As for your point, what do you have against applications controlling things
like window layout?  It's been a standard feature of desktop interfaces of
all sorts pretty much since the beginning.  You'll find it in Windows, Mac
OS, X11 and most of the window managers that run on it, etc.  It's Wayland
that is breaking a basic feature that's been around for decades.

-- 
  _/_
 / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/         Top-posting!
 \_^_/                            >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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#38080

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-06-24 21:59 +0000
Message-ID<111hjvc$3b77h$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#38071
On 24 Jun 2026 13:26:59 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote:

> Although sometimes the webby nature of SVG shows through, eg the
> default dimension is pixels rather mm or inches.

The name “pixels” doesn’t actually mean “pixels”. It seems to mean
1/96 inch. I don’t know if that’s “webby”, or just a common
characteristic based on common PC monitors from the 1990s.

I just started my copy of Inkscape, drew a box, and the default units
showing is mm.

> Also some packages mess up the scaling when importing SVGs - I think
> Inkscape stores everything in the file in pixels and then they get imported
> with a different pixels per inch (PPI) setting.

I don’t know why they should. If there’s any doubt, there should be an
option to tell them what the scale factor should be.

> Another one that's surprising from other packages is that dimensions
> include line thicknesses. eg if you draw a 10mm wide box with thin
> lines, it's exactly 10mm. If you change the line thickness to 1mm,
> the width of the object is now 11mm.

I just tried, and no they don’t. I drew a box 10mm on a side, changed
the line thickness, and it was still shows 10mm on a side.

The dimensions are measured from the middle of the line, not an edge.

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#38084

FromTheo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Date2026-06-25 14:24 +0100
Message-ID<87F*dS0JA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
In reply to#38080
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On 24 Jun 2026 13:26:59 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote:
> 
> > Although sometimes the webby nature of SVG shows through, eg the
> > default dimension is pixels rather mm or inches.
> 
> The name “pixels” doesn’t actually mean “pixels”. It seems to mean
> 1/96 inch. I don’t know if that’s “webby”, or just a common
> characteristic based on common PC monitors from the 1990s.
> 
> I just started my copy of Inkscape, drew a box, and the default units
> showing is mm.

I'm not sure if that has changed recently, or if I changed the default
because setting mm was the first thing I set on a new install.

> > Also some packages mess up the scaling when importing SVGs - I think
> > Inkscape stores everything in the file in pixels and then they get imported
> > with a different pixels per inch (PPI) setting.
> 
> I don’t know why they should. If there’s any doubt, there should be an
> option to tell them what the scale factor should be.

Many SVG inconsistencies on this thread:

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/176792-impossible-to-use-svg-export-for-accurate-mm-precision/

My flow did include Adobe Illustrator which supposedly uses 72dpi not 96dpi,
which I didn't know at the time.  I just switched to exporting Postscript
which avoided that problem.

> > Another one that's surprising from other packages is that dimensions
> > include line thicknesses. eg if you draw a 10mm wide box with thin
> > lines, it's exactly 10mm. If you change the line thickness to 1mm,
> > the width of the object is now 11mm.
> 
> I just tried, and no they don’t. I drew a box 10mm on a side, changed
> the line thickness, and it was still shows 10mm on a side.
> 
> The dimensions are measured from the middle of the line, not an edge.

That's odd, because it still does it for me.
On Inkscape 1.4.3 (0d15f75042, 2025-12-25):

Draw rectangle, Fill and Stroke -> Stroke style -> Line width = 0.001mm
Set W = 10mm, now it's 10mm wide.

Select rectangle, Fill and Stroke -> Stroke style -> Line width = 1mm
W is now 11mm.

It also happens in the following sequence:

Draw rectangle, Line width = 0.001m
Set W = 10mm
Without leaving rectangle mode, Line width = 1mm
Select rectangle, W is now 11mm.

When in rectangle mode, if you change the line width it doesn't update the W
but it does when you exit and select the object.

Theo

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#38087

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-06-25 23:31 +0000
Message-ID<111kdnp$4v7h$6@dont-email.me>
In reply to#38084
On 25 Jun 2026 14:24:28 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote:

> Many SVG inconsistencies on this thread:
>
> https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/176792-impossible-to-use-svg-export-for-accurate-mm-precision/

Bugs in that particular proprietary app ... so it’s not worth using *yawn*

> My flow did include Adobe Illustrator which supposedly uses 72dpi
> not 96dpi, which I didn't know at the time. I just switched to
> exporting Postscript which avoided that problem.

I’m sure Adobe would not be so enthusiastic about SVG, which is why
its support is only lukewarm. They would rather their own .AI format
was universal, but the open standard got adopted instead.

I don’t know why they bother with PostScript, though, given that
nobody uses it any more. Shouldn’t they be doing PDF instead?

> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> I just tried, and no they don’t. I drew a box 10mm on a side, changed
>> the line thickness, and it was still shows 10mm on a side.
>>
>> The dimensions are measured from the middle of the line, not an edge.
>
> That's odd, because it still does it for me.
> On Inkscape 1.4.3 (0d15f75042, 2025-12-25):
>
> Draw rectangle, Fill and Stroke -> Stroke style -> Line width = 0.001mm
> Set W = 10mm, now it's 10mm wide.
>
> Select rectangle, Fill and Stroke -> Stroke style -> Line width = 1mm
> W is now 11mm.

I used the same version. Lined up the sides of the 10mm square on the
“50” and “60” points on the top ruler. The control points stay in
exactly the same position as the line thickness changes.

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