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  Logs T M Smith <tmsmith36@tmsmith36.plus.com> - 2015-08-04 19:15 +0100
    Re: Logs The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-04 19:49 +0100
      Re: Logs T M Smith <tmsmith36@tmsmith36.plus.com> - 2015-08-04 23:33 +0100
        Re: Logs JimR <NotReally@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-05 01:23 -0400
          Re: Logs T M Smith <tmsmith36@tmsmith36.plus.com> - 2015-08-05 23:58 +0100
            Re: Logs alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-08-06 19:36 +0000
              Re: Logs T M Smith <tmsmith36@tmsmith36.plus.com> - 2015-08-06 21:51 +0100
                Re: Logs The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-06 22:07 +0100
                  Re: Logs T M Smith <tmsmith36@tmsmith36.plus.com> - 2015-08-06 23:24 +0100
                    Re: Logs The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-06 23:40 +0100
                      Re: Logs Stefan Enzinger <mindoms@aon.at> - 2015-08-07 10:23 +0200
                        Re: Logs Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2015-08-07 13:51 +0000
                          Re: Logs Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-08-07 14:45 +0000
            Re: Logs Dom <domafp@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2015-08-07 06:51 +0100
              Re: Logs T M Smith <tmsmith36@tmsmith36.plus.com> - 2015-08-07 21:10 +0100
                Re: Logs T M Smith <tmsmith36@tmsmith36.plus.com> - 2015-08-07 22:14 +0100
                  Re: Logs Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2015-08-08 17:26 +0100
                    Re: Logs T M Smith <tmsmith36@tmsmith36.plus.com> - 2015-08-08 21:23 +0100
                      Re: Logs The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-09 07:16 +0100
                Re: Logs Dom <domafp@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2015-08-08 06:21 +0100
                  Re: Logs Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-08-08 08:06 +0000
                    Re: Logs Dom <domafp@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2015-08-08 09:25 +0100
                      Re: Logs Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-08-08 08:37 +0000
                  Re: Logs T M Smith <tmsmith36@tmsmith36.plus.com> - 2015-08-08 21:08 +0100
        Re: Logs "A. Dumas" <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> - 2015-08-09 08:36 +0200
          Re: Logs The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-09 16:02 +0100
            Re: Logs Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-09 13:19 -0400
          Re: Logs T M Smith <tmsmith36@tmsmith36.plus.com> - 2015-08-09 20:45 +0100
            Re: Logs "A. Dumas" <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> - 2015-08-17 17:44 +0200
    Re: Logs Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2015-08-04 20:34 +0100
    Re: Logs druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2015-08-04 20:38 +0100
    Re: Logs mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2015-08-04 20:41 +0100
      Re: Logs Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-05 08:16 +0000
      Re: Logs Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2015-08-05 09:15 +0000

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#9377

Dom <domafp@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> On 07/08/15 21:10, T M Smith wrote:
>> Dom, You have lost me here.
>> Where is, and what is dhcpcd5.
>> At one stage during my attempts to get things right it gave me a
>> primary address of 192.168.1.90 and a secondary address of
>> 192.168.1.95,
>> My search for the 95 address is still running.
>
> Hi Malcolm, ok, maybe you don't have it installed, but it is standard on 
> the latest Raspbian images and bloddy annoying if you want to set a 
> static address.
>
> dhcpcd5 is a DHCP client deamon. It handles the DHCP on your network 
> interfaces. Unlike previous clients it ignores the settings in 
> /etc/network/interfaces and just does its own thing. So if you set a 
> manual address in /etc/network/interfaces you get two addresses - one 
> from interfaces and one set by dhcp.
>
> To check if you have it installed:
>
> dpkg -l dhcpcd5
>
> If it comes up with a line starting with "ii  dhcpcd5", then it is 
> installed.
>
> To remove it:
>
> sudo apt-get remove dhcpcd5

But why did they make this change?  The old dhclient worked, didn't it?

There appears to be a tendency to replace old and trusted software from
trusted developers by newfangled crap that more mimicks the behaviour
and stability of Microsoft Windows, but why would "we" want to do that?

For example, with every package designed by Lennart Poettering I remove
from a system, the system gains stability and improves in performance.
(recently I again had that experience, this time with ifplugd, yet another
completely useless program that only causes problems.  just remove it!)

However, all the time we have to row against the flood of such packages
introduced by the distributors.  Is there a secret plot behind that?

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#9379

On 08/08/15 09:06, Rob wrote:
> Dom <domafp@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> dhcpcd5 is a DHCP client deamon. It handles the DHCP on your network
>> interfaces. Unlike previous clients it ignores the settings in
>> /etc/network/interfaces and just does its own thing. So if you set a
>> manual address in /etc/network/interfaces you get two addresses - one
>> from interfaces and one set by dhcp.
>
> But why did they make this change?  The old dhclient worked, didn't it?

Mostly, yes. I believe the isc-dchp-client that was used before had some 
issues with IPv6 addresses.

Using the new one is something to do with the choice of Wifi GUI tool. 
It works ok if all you want to do is use a standard DHCP setup.
>
> There appears to be a tendency to replace old and trusted software from
> trusted developers by newfangled crap that more mimicks the behaviour
> and stability of Microsoft Windows, but why would "we" want to do that?

I'm not keen on the idea of "That has been the standard method since 
forever - let's get rid of it!" that seems to be going around. Notwork 
Mangler was one example that I never got on with, but at least that made 
a show of acknowledging the interfaces file. This new dhcp daemon 
doesn't seem to even bother with that (I'm willing to believe that there 
might be a way to configure it to work "properly" though)

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#9380

Dom <domafp@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> On 08/08/15 09:06, Rob wrote:
>> Dom <domafp@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> dhcpcd5 is a DHCP client deamon. It handles the DHCP on your network
>>> interfaces. Unlike previous clients it ignores the settings in
>>> /etc/network/interfaces and just does its own thing. So if you set a
>>> manual address in /etc/network/interfaces you get two addresses - one
>>> from interfaces and one set by dhcp.
>>
>> But why did they make this change?  The old dhclient worked, didn't it?
>
> Mostly, yes. I believe the isc-dchp-client that was used before had some 
> issues with IPv6 addresses.
>
> Using the new one is something to do with the choice of Wifi GUI tool. 
> It works ok if all you want to do is use a standard DHCP setup.

Ah... I do recognize that!  We have some immediate requirement and replace
the working system with a newly written untested program, and without
looking into other requirements than the writer has on his own system...

>> There appears to be a tendency to replace old and trusted software from
>> trusted developers by newfangled crap that more mimicks the behaviour
>> and stability of Microsoft Windows, but why would "we" want to do that?
>
> I'm not keen on the idea of "That has been the standard method since 
> forever - let's get rid of it!" that seems to be going around. Notwork 
> Mangler was one example that I never got on with, but at least that made 
> a show of acknowledging the interfaces file. This new dhcp daemon 
> doesn't seem to even bother with that (I'm willing to believe that there 
> might be a way to configure it to work "properly" though)

Another one is the new idea of moving the entire system into the init
program (then called systemd), and in the process modify many other things
that "systemd cannot handle".  (instead of implement changes into it
to overcome those shortcomings)

Fortunately I still have a raspbian image from 2013 that I still use
on all my new deployments, and from which things like ifplugd can still
easily be removed.

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#9385

In message <Ulgxx.140284$aP2.106628@fx38.am4>
          Dom <domafp@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> On 07/08/15 21:10, T M Smith wrote:
>> Dom, You have lost me here.
>> Where is, and what is dhcpcd5.
>> At one stage during my attempts to get things right it gave me a
>> primary address of 192.168.1.90 and a secondary address of
>> 192.168.1.95,
>> My search for the 95 address is still running.

> Hi Malcolm, ok, maybe you don't have it installed, but it is standard on
> the latest Raspbian images and bloddy annoying if you want to set a
> static address.

> dhcpcd5 is a DHCP client deamon. It handles the DHCP on your network
> interfaces. Unlike previous clients it ignores the settings in
> /etc/network/interfaces and just does its own thing. So if you set a
> manual address in /etc/network/interfaces you get two addresses - one
> from interfaces and one set by dhcp.

> To check if you have it installed:

> dpkg -l dhcpcd5

> If it comes up with a line starting with "ii  dhcpcd5", then it is
> installed.

> To remove it:

> sudo apt-get remove dhcpcd5
It does not appear to be installed using the above.

Malcolm

-- 
T M Smith
Using an ARMX6 and RISC OS 5.21 in the North Riding of Yorkshire

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#9389

Op 05-08-15 om 00:33 schreef T M Smith:
> Another puzzle is that it gave the Pi as 192.168.1.95
> Changing this to a static address of 192.168.1.90 has not worked, it
> still comes up as 192.168.1.95

What's with the endless difficult problems?!

Just go full dchp on all connected devices (ie. don't adjust anything 
from the standard install) and assign fixed addresses on the router, if 
you must have them.

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#9398

On 09/08/15 07:36, A. Dumas wrote:
> Op 05-08-15 om 00:33 schreef T M Smith:
>> Another puzzle is that it gave the Pi as 192.168.1.95
>> Changing this to a static address of 192.168.1.90 has not worked, it
>> still comes up as 192.168.1.95
>
> What's with the endless difficult problems?!
>
> Just go full dchp on all connected devices (ie. don't adjust anything
> from the standard install) and assign fixed addresses on the router, if
> you must have them.
>
so that they appear on random IP addresses? fine for clients, not fine 
for servers...

OK you CAN get around it if the router or DHCP server allows you to 
create a linkage between MAC addresses and IP addresses..



-- 
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in 
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in 
someone else's pocket.

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#9400

On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 16:02:03 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> declaimed the following:


>
>OK you CAN get around it if the router or DHCP server allows you to 
>create a linkage between MAC addresses and IP addresses..

	There are routers that don't offer that?



Manually Add Client  
		
Enter Client Name 	Assign IP Address 	To This MAC Address 	
[                            ]	192 . 168 . 2.[      ] [             ]

	Or I can check a box for the clients already connected and lock them
into their current IP assignments.
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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#9404

In message <55c6f4f2$0$2833$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
          "A. Dumas" <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> wrote:

> Op 05-08-15 om 00:33 schreef T M Smith:
>> Another puzzle is that it gave the Pi as 192.168.1.95
>> Changing this to a static address of 192.168.1.90 has not worked, it
>> still comes up as 192.168.1.95

> What's with the endless difficult problems?!

> Just go full dchp on all connected devices (ie. don't adjust anything
> from the standard install) and assign fixed addresses on the router, if
> you must have them.
Probably works well but a complete unkown to me.

Malcolm


-- 
T M Smith
Using an ARMX6 and RISC OS 5.21 in the North Riding of Yorkshire

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#9447

Op 09-08-15 om 21:45 schreef T M Smith:
> "A. Dumas" <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> wrote:
>> Just go full dchp on all connected devices (ie. don't adjust anything
>> from the standard install) and assign fixed addresses on the router, if
>> you must have them.
> Probably works well but a complete unkown to me.

Log on to your router's admin web page, look for a way to assign a fixed 
(but effectively dhcp assigned) ip address for clients. Most routers can 
do that, I'm sure.

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#9318

On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 19:15:59 +0100
T M Smith <tmsmith36@tmsmith36.plus.com> wrote:

> Using Rasbian on a Pi is there a log kept of the data that scolls
> past as the system boots?
> 
You can view recent messages (which are held in a 16k? buffer) with the
dmesg command.

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#9320

On 04/08/2015 19:15, T M Smith wrote:
> Using Rasbian on a Pi is there a log kept of the data that scolls past
> as the system boots?

dmesg -T

---druck

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#9327

In article <5df3fded54.Broadband@tmsmith36.plus.com>,
T M Smith  <tmsmith36@tmsmith36.plus.com> wrote:
>Using Rasbian on a Pi is there a log kept of the data that scolls past 
>as the system boots?

Try one or more of :-

dmesg
more /var/log/messages
more /var/log/syslog

and see what comes up ...
-- 
--------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk  |    http://www.signal11.org.uk

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#9334

On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 20:41:02 +0100, Mike wrote:

> In article <5df3fded54.Broadband@tmsmith36.plus.com>,
> T M Smith  <tmsmith36@tmsmith36.plus.com> wrote:
>>Using Rasbian on a Pi is there a log kept of the data that scolls past
>>as the system boots?
> 
> Try one or more of :-
> 
> dmesg 
> more /var/log/messages 
> more /var/log/syslog
> 
> and see what comes up ...
>
"dmesg | less" generally works better since most version of dmesg don't 
have built-in pagination. In any case, 'less' is considerably more than 
'more' when it comes the general usability.
 

-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#9336

In article <mpr4ge$7pc$1@posie.signal11.org.uk>,
Mike <mjb@signal11.org.uk> wrote:
>In article <5df3fded54.Broadband@tmsmith36.plus.com>,
>T M Smith  <tmsmith36@tmsmith36.plus.com> wrote:
>>Using Rasbian on a Pi is there a log kept of the data that scolls past 
>>as the system boots?
>
>Try one or more of :-
>
>dmesg
>more /var/log/messages
>more /var/log/syslog
>
>and see what comes up ...

Also /var/log/dmesg which is a snapshot of the boot messages. Usefull if you have
a system that continually dumps more stuff.

Gordon

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