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Linux, Windows and rPi

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  Linux, Windows and rPi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 20:13 -0400
    Re: Linux, Windows and rPi tumppiw <tumppiw@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 03:17 +0300
    Re: Linux, Windows and rPi hda <agent700@ay.invalid> - 2015-08-03 02:26 +0200
    Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2015-08-03 02:20 +0100
      Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-03 13:04 +0000
        Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2015-08-04 02:43 +0100
          Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-04 09:25 +0000
            Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2015-08-04 16:25 +0100
              Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-04 17:30 +0000
                Re: Linux, Windows and rPi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 13:39 -0400
                  Re: Linux, Windows and rPi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-04 18:47 +0100
                Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-08-04 18:25 +0000
                  Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-04 19:19 +0000
                    Re: Linux, Windows and rPi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 16:46 -0400
                      Re: Linux, Windows and rPi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-04 22:02 +0100
                      Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-04 22:12 +0000
                        Re: Linux, Windows and rPi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 18:31 -0400
                          Re: Linux, Windows and rPi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-05 01:24 +0100
                            Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2015-08-05 10:55 +0100
                              Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-08-05 10:19 +0000
                        Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2015-08-05 03:31 +0100
                          Re: Linux, Windows and rPi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-05 08:22 +0100
                          Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-05 08:11 +0000
                            Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2015-08-05 09:42 +0100
                              Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Folderol <general@musically.me.uk> - 2015-08-05 17:14 +0100
                        Re: Linux, Windows and rPi mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-08-05 20:01 +0100
                          Re: Linux, Windows and rPi alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-08-05 19:42 +0000
                            Re: Linux, Windows and rPi alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-08-05 19:44 +0000
                          Re: Linux, Windows and rPi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 15:55 -0400
            Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2015-08-04 20:27 +0100
              Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-04 20:19 +0000
          Re: Linux, Windows and rPi druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2015-08-04 20:36 +0100
    Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-08-03 05:33 +0000
      Re: Linux, Windows and rPi druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2015-08-03 20:56 +0100
        Re: Linux, Windows and rPi mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-08-03 21:09 +0100
          Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-03 21:08 +0000
            Re: Linux, Windows and rPi "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2015-08-11 10:31 +0100
          Re: Linux, Windows and rPi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 22:03 -0400
            Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-08-04 07:16 +0000
              Re: Linux, Windows and rPi John Doe <john@doe.com> - 2015-08-04 09:28 +0000
                Re: Linux, Windows and rPi David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-08-04 10:38 +0100
              Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-04 09:39 +0000

Page 1 of 3  [1] 2 3  Next page →

#9281 — Linux, Windows and rPi

I was thinking about Linux and how it has not impacted Windows much 
either in sales or design.  I suppose there are a few markets where 
Linux has a significant impact on Windows sales, but for the most part I 
think MS doesn't need to fear a loss of sales due to Linux.

But MS has decided to port Windows 10 to the rPi.  I have no idea how 
well Windows 10 will work, even on the new rPi 2 with more memory.  I 
can only imagine that MS is concerned that the rPi will be influencing 
young minds with their exposure to the rPi and planting seeds which will 
someday seriously impact their market.

Anyone think this is likely?  Will the rPi help Linux gain significant 
user share over Windows in the days ahead?

I remember some years ago when I bought a Walmart PC which at $235 was 
significantly cheaper than any other I could find.  No small part of 
this was the "Lindows" OS which was a version of Linux.  I'm thinking 
this is part of the rational for MS going to a subscription service for 
Windows 10.  I'm also wondering if this might backfire on them giving 
users multiple opportunities (every year when the payment is due) to 
cancel their subscription and install a Linux OS.

-- 

Rick

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#9282

3.8.2015, 3:13, rickman kirjoitti:
> I was thinking about Linux and how it has not impacted Windows much
> either in sales or design.  I suppose there are a few markets where
> Linux has a significant impact on Windows sales, but for the most part I
> think MS doesn't need to fear a loss of sales due to Linux.
>
> But MS has decided to port Windows 10 to the rPi.  I have no idea how
> well Windows 10 will work, even on the new rPi 2 with more memory.  I
> can only imagine that MS is concerned that the rPi will be influencing
> young minds with their exposure to the rPi and planting seeds which will
> someday seriously impact their market.
>
> Anyone think this is likely?  Will the rPi help Linux gain significant
> user share over Windows in the days ahead?
>
> I remember some years ago when I bought a Walmart PC which at $235 was
> significantly cheaper than any other I could find.  No small part of
> this was the "Lindows" OS which was a version of Linux.  I'm thinking
> this is part of the rational for MS going to a subscription service for
> Windows 10.  I'm also wondering if this might backfire on them giving
> users multiple opportunities (every year when the payment is due) to
> cancel their subscription and install a Linux OS.
>

Well, it's not gonna be the full Win10 but Win10 IoT (mostly likely a 
non-graphical developement system)


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------
Thomas Wendell
Helsinki, Finland
Translation to/from FI/SWE not always accurate
-----------------------------------------------------

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#9283

On Sun, 02 Aug 2015 20:13:07 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

>I was thinking about Linux and how it has not impacted Windows much 
>either in sales or design.  I suppose there are a few markets where 
>Linux has a significant impact on Windows sales, but for the most part I 
>think MS doesn't need to fear a loss of sales due to Linux.
>
>But MS has decided to port Windows 10 to the rPi.  I have no idea how 
>well Windows 10 will work, even on the new rPi 2 with more memory.  I 
>can only imagine that MS is concerned that the rPi will be influencing 
>young minds with their exposure to the rPi and planting seeds which will 
>someday seriously impact their market.
>
>Anyone think this is likely?  Will the rPi help Linux gain significant 
>user share over Windows in the days ahead?
>
>I remember some years ago when I bought a Walmart PC which at $235 was 
>significantly cheaper than any other I could find.  No small part of 
>this was the "Lindows" OS which was a version of Linux.  I'm thinking 
>this is part of the rational for MS going to a subscription service for 
>Windows 10.  I'm also wondering if this might backfire on them giving 
>users multiple opportunities (every year when the payment is due) to 
>cancel their subscription and install a Linux OS.


Linux already leads with ARM-arch...

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#9284

On Sun, 02 Aug 2015 20:13:07 -0400
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

> I was thinking about Linux and how it has not impacted Windows much 
> either in sales or design.  I suppose there are a few markets where 
> Linux has a significant impact on Windows sales, but for the most
> part I think MS doesn't need to fear a loss of sales due to Linux.
> 
Windows Mobile/CE and Windows Phone have lost out rather badly to Linux
mobile AKA Android.  MSFT's frantic scrabble to get a bigger piece of
the mobile devices market is the reason Windows 8 sucked so badly.

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#9287

On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 02:20:18 +0100, Rob Morley wrote:

> On Sun, 02 Aug 2015 20:13:07 -0400 rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I was thinking about Linux and how it has not impacted Windows much
>> either in sales or design.  I suppose there are a few markets where
>> Linux has a significant impact on Windows sales, but for the most part
>> I think MS doesn't need to fear a loss of sales due to Linux.
>> 
> Windows Mobile/CE and Windows Phone have lost out rather badly to Linux
> mobile AKA Android.
>
Thats largely due to Microsoft's abrupt axing of Windows Mobile/CE about 
a year ago, soon followed by the disappearance of all PDAs and PNAs from 
shops except those running Android or proprietary OSen.


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#9293

On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 13:04:22 +0000 (UTC)
Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:

> On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 02:20:18 +0100, Rob Morley wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, 02 Aug 2015 20:13:07 -0400 rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> I was thinking about Linux and how it has not impacted Windows much
> >> either in sales or design.  I suppose there are a few markets where
> >> Linux has a significant impact on Windows sales, but for the most
> >> part I think MS doesn't need to fear a loss of sales due to Linux.
> >> 
> > Windows Mobile/CE and Windows Phone have lost out rather badly to
> > Linux mobile AKA Android.
> >
> Thats largely due to Microsoft's abrupt axing of Windows Mobile/CE
> about a year ago, soon followed by the disappearance of all PDAs and
> PNAs from shops except those running Android or proprietary OSen.
> 
Discontinuing the product is a symptom of its fairly negligible market
share, not a cause.

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#9298

On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 02:43:45 +0100, Rob Morley wrote:

> On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 13:04:22 +0000 (UTC)
> Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 02:20:18 +0100, Rob Morley wrote:
>> 
>> > On Sun, 02 Aug 2015 20:13:07 -0400 rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > 
>> >> I was thinking about Linux and how it has not impacted Windows much
>> >> either in sales or design.  I suppose there are a few markets where
>> >> Linux has a significant impact on Windows sales, but for the most
>> >> part I think MS doesn't need to fear a loss of sales due to Linux.
>> >> 
>> > Windows Mobile/CE and Windows Phone have lost out rather badly to
>> > Linux mobile AKA Android.
>> >
>> Thats largely due to Microsoft's abrupt axing of Windows Mobile/CE
>> about a year ago, soon followed by the disappearance of all PDAs and
>> PNAs from shops except those running Android or proprietary OSen.
>> 
> Discontinuing the product is a symptom of its fairly negligible market
> share, not a cause.

Maybe so, but the sudden disappearance of many brands of satnavs 
(Binatone, Vertica, Medion to name a few) from Maplins and online shops a 
month or three after M$ killed WM5/6 without an apparent successor and 
their subsequent arrival as NIB items on eBay looked too well 
choreographed to be coincidence.

Maybe I and my gliding friends and I noticed it more than the general 
public because we jail broke these WM5/6 PNAs to run specialised FOSS 
navigation programs on them.
 

-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#9304

Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
> Maybe so, but the sudden disappearance of many brands of satnavs 
> (Binatone, Vertica, Medion to name a few) from Maplins and online shops a 
> month or three after M$ killed WM5/6 without an apparent successor and 
> their subsequent arrival as NIB items on eBay looked too well 
> choreographed to be coincidence.

Given the last release of WM6 was 2010, and WM5 in 2007, the writing wasn't
so much on the wall, as the wall had been condemned and earmarked for
redevelopment.  Since WM6 has been out of support for 2.5 years, and WM5
will do so in a couple of months, it's not very responsible for OEMs to
sell new systems that won't receive security updates.

Theo

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#9306

On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 16:25:08 +0100, Theo Markettos wrote:

> Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
>> Maybe so, but the sudden disappearance of many brands of satnavs
>> (Binatone, Vertica, Medion to name a few) from Maplins and online shops
>> a month or three after M$ killed WM5/6 without an apparent successor
>> and their subsequent arrival as NIB items on eBay looked too well
>> choreographed to be coincidence.
> 
> Given the last release of WM6 was 2010, and WM5 in 2007, the writing
> wasn't so much on the wall, as the wall had been condemned and earmarked
> for redevelopment.  Since WM6 has been out of support for 2.5 years, and
> WM5 will do so in a couple of months, it's not very responsible for OEMs
> to sell new systems that won't receive security updates.
>
Sure, but all I'm saying is that its kind of interesting that it all 
collapsed so suddenly and that this was the death warrant for a whole 
class of GPS-equipped devices, namely low cost, phoneless satnavs. Its a 
market that Android hasn't really taken over.


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#9307

On 8/4/2015 1:30 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 16:25:08 +0100, Theo Markettos wrote:
>
>> Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
>>> Maybe so, but the sudden disappearance of many brands of satnavs
>>> (Binatone, Vertica, Medion to name a few) from Maplins and online shops
>>> a month or three after M$ killed WM5/6 without an apparent successor
>>> and their subsequent arrival as NIB items on eBay looked too well
>>> choreographed to be coincidence.
>>
>> Given the last release of WM6 was 2010, and WM5 in 2007, the writing
>> wasn't so much on the wall, as the wall had been condemned and earmarked
>> for redevelopment.  Since WM6 has been out of support for 2.5 years, and
>> WM5 will do so in a couple of months, it's not very responsible for OEMs
>> to sell new systems that won't receive security updates.
>>
> Sure, but all I'm saying is that its kind of interesting that it all
> collapsed so suddenly and that this was the death warrant for a whole
> class of GPS-equipped devices, namely low cost, phoneless satnavs. Its a
> market that Android hasn't really taken over.

I expect it will now.

-- 

Rick

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#9309

On 04/08/15 18:39, rickman wrote:
> On 8/4/2015 1:30 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 16:25:08 +0100, Theo Markettos wrote:
>>
>>> Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Maybe so, but the sudden disappearance of many brands of satnavs
>>>> (Binatone, Vertica, Medion to name a few) from Maplins and online shops
>>>> a month or three after M$ killed WM5/6 without an apparent successor
>>>> and their subsequent arrival as NIB items on eBay looked too well
>>>> choreographed to be coincidence.
>>>
>>> Given the last release of WM6 was 2010, and WM5 in 2007, the writing
>>> wasn't so much on the wall, as the wall had been condemned and earmarked
>>> for redevelopment.  Since WM6 has been out of support for 2.5 years, and
>>> WM5 will do so in a couple of months, it's not very responsible for OEMs
>>> to sell new systems that won't receive security updates.
>>>
>> Sure, but all I'm saying is that its kind of interesting that it all
>> collapsed so suddenly and that this was the death warrant for a whole
>> class of GPS-equipped devices, namely low cost, phoneless satnavs. Its a
>> market that Android hasn't really taken over.
>
> I expect it will now.
>
Exactly. With an arm core and enough RAM and some flash  to run a 
striped down linux on, costing peanuts, why reinvent a free wheel?


-- 
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in 
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in 
someone else's pocket.

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#9311

Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 16:25:08 +0100, Theo Markettos wrote:
>
>> Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
>>> Maybe so, but the sudden disappearance of many brands of satnavs
>>> (Binatone, Vertica, Medion to name a few) from Maplins and online shops
>>> a month or three after M$ killed WM5/6 without an apparent successor
>>> and their subsequent arrival as NIB items on eBay looked too well
>>> choreographed to be coincidence.
>> 
>> Given the last release of WM6 was 2010, and WM5 in 2007, the writing
>> wasn't so much on the wall, as the wall had been condemned and earmarked
>> for redevelopment.  Since WM6 has been out of support for 2.5 years, and
>> WM5 will do so in a couple of months, it's not very responsible for OEMs
>> to sell new systems that won't receive security updates.
>>
> Sure, but all I'm saying is that its kind of interesting that it all 
> collapsed so suddenly and that this was the death warrant for a whole 
> class of GPS-equipped devices, namely low cost, phoneless satnavs. Its a 
> market that Android hasn't really taken over.

I think the popular TomTom satnav is running Linux.
At least it was so in the past...  but I think I heard some time that
they were considering switching to another OS.

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#9313

On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 18:25:43 +0000, Rob wrote:

> Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
>> On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 16:25:08 +0100, Theo Markettos wrote:
>>
>>> Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Maybe so, but the sudden disappearance of many brands of satnavs
>>>> (Binatone, Vertica, Medion to name a few) from Maplins and online
>>>> shops a month or three after M$ killed WM5/6 without an apparent
>>>> successor and their subsequent arrival as NIB items on eBay looked
>>>> too well choreographed to be coincidence.
>>> 
>>> Given the last release of WM6 was 2010, and WM5 in 2007, the writing
>>> wasn't so much on the wall, as the wall had been condemned and
>>> earmarked for redevelopment.  Since WM6 has been out of support for
>>> 2.5 years, and WM5 will do so in a couple of months, it's not very
>>> responsible for OEMs to sell new systems that won't receive security
>>> updates.
>>>
>> Sure, but all I'm saying is that its kind of interesting that it all
>> collapsed so suddenly and that this was the death warrant for a whole
>> class of GPS-equipped devices, namely low cost, phoneless satnavs. Its
>> a market that Android hasn't really taken over.
> 
> I think the popular TomTom satnav is running Linux.
>
Yes, I heard that it always was on some form of Linux, but AFAIK its some 
secret proprietary flavour.


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#9322

On 8/4/2015 3:19 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 18:25:43 +0000, Rob wrote:
>
>> Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 16:25:08 +0100, Theo Markettos wrote:
>>>
>>>> Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> Maybe so, but the sudden disappearance of many brands of satnavs
>>>>> (Binatone, Vertica, Medion to name a few) from Maplins and online
>>>>> shops a month or three after M$ killed WM5/6 without an apparent
>>>>> successor and their subsequent arrival as NIB items on eBay looked
>>>>> too well choreographed to be coincidence.
>>>>
>>>> Given the last release of WM6 was 2010, and WM5 in 2007, the writing
>>>> wasn't so much on the wall, as the wall had been condemned and
>>>> earmarked for redevelopment.  Since WM6 has been out of support for
>>>> 2.5 years, and WM5 will do so in a couple of months, it's not very
>>>> responsible for OEMs to sell new systems that won't receive security
>>>> updates.
>>>>
>>> Sure, but all I'm saying is that its kind of interesting that it all
>>> collapsed so suddenly and that this was the death warrant for a whole
>>> class of GPS-equipped devices, namely low cost, phoneless satnavs. Its
>>> a market that Android hasn't really taken over.
>>
>> I think the popular TomTom satnav is running Linux.
>>
> Yes, I heard that it always was on some form of Linux, but AFAIK its some
> secret proprietary flavour.

I believe if you check, a "secret proprietary flavour" of Linux is not 
allowed by the license.

Not criticizing, just curious, is "flavour" the British spelling of the 
American "flavor"?

-- 

Rick

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#9323

On 04/08/15 21:46, rickman wrote:

>
> Not criticizing, just curious, is "flavour" the British spelling of the
> American "flavor"?
>
No. Flavor is am American spelling of the correct form: 'Flavour'


-- 
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in 
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in 
someone else's pocket.

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#9324

On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 16:46:14 -0400, rickman wrote:

> On 8/4/2015 3:19 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 18:25:43 +0000, Rob wrote:
>>
>>> Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 16:25:08 +0100, Theo Markettos wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> Maybe so, but the sudden disappearance of many brands of satnavs
>>>>>> (Binatone, Vertica, Medion to name a few) from Maplins and online
>>>>>> shops a month or three after M$ killed WM5/6 without an apparent
>>>>>> successor and their subsequent arrival as NIB items on eBay looked
>>>>>> too well choreographed to be coincidence.
>>>>>
>>>>> Given the last release of WM6 was 2010, and WM5 in 2007, the writing
>>>>> wasn't so much on the wall, as the wall had been condemned and
>>>>> earmarked for redevelopment.  Since WM6 has been out of support for
>>>>> 2.5 years, and WM5 will do so in a couple of months, it's not very
>>>>> responsible for OEMs to sell new systems that won't receive security
>>>>> updates.
>>>>>
>>>> Sure, but all I'm saying is that its kind of interesting that it all
>>>> collapsed so suddenly and that this was the death warrant for a whole
>>>> class of GPS-equipped devices, namely low cost, phoneless satnavs.
>>>> Its a market that Android hasn't really taken over.
>>>
>>> I think the popular TomTom satnav is running Linux.
>>>
>> Yes, I heard that it always was on some form of Linux, but AFAIK its
>> some secret proprietary flavour.
> 
> I believe if you check, a "secret proprietary flavour" of Linux is not
> allowed by the license.
>
What license is the kernel under? I'd supposed that it was GPLed. 

IIRC the GPL says that you have to make the GPLed code you're using and 
any mods to it available to users under the GPL and pass the changes back 
to the original author. 

However, I'd think it could be a bit different for the Linux kernel, 
because the changes you'd make when porting the kernel to new hardware 
would most likely all be the addition of separate modules such as the 
boot loader, drivers and other hardware-specific modules or stuff needed 
to let the system boot without user interaction. Since these are 
separately compiled code and not part of the GPLed kernel, which wouldn't 
need any changes if you used GCC or a compatible compiler, I don't think 
they have to be GPLed. AFAIK that's always been the case for GPLed code 
and has certainly always been the case for LGPLed code. 

You're encouraged to GPL your original parts of the combined ensemble, 
but don't have to and can even, if you wish, use a proprietary license 
for it and distribute it only as binary.

I read GPLv2 and LGPLv2 very carefully when they were released and have 
always used them for my own stuff.

> Not criticizing, just curious, is "flavour" the British spelling of the
> American "flavor"?
>
Yes. Its a common pattern: this particular British->American spelling 
change occurs in a few places: as well as flavour->flavor there's also 
colour->color and probably others. I find this is quite odd, considering 
that a lot of American pronunciation is still very close to Elizabethan 
English, or so I was told by a West Virginian when we were crossing Asia, 
following the Hippy Trail on a truck back in the '70s. In any case it was 
the first English colony in America, named, I was taught, by Walter 
Raleigh in honour of Elizabeth 1, the Virgin Queen.


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#9325

On 8/4/2015 6:12 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 16:46:14 -0400, rickman wrote:
>
>> On 8/4/2015 3:19 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>>> On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 18:25:43 +0000, Rob wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think the popular TomTom satnav is running Linux.
>>>>
>>> Yes, I heard that it always was on some form of Linux, but AFAIK its
>>> some secret proprietary flavour.
>>
>> I believe if you check, a "secret proprietary flavour" of Linux is not
>> allowed by the license.
>>
> What license is the kernel under? I'd supposed that it was GPLed.
>
> IIRC the GPL says that you have to make the GPLed code you're using and
> any mods to it available to users under the GPL and pass the changes back
> to the original author.
>
> However, I'd think it could be a bit different for the Linux kernel,
> because the changes you'd make when porting the kernel to new hardware
> would most likely all be the addition of separate modules such as the
> boot loader, drivers and other hardware-specific modules or stuff needed
> to let the system boot without user interaction. Since these are
> separately compiled code and not part of the GPLed kernel, which wouldn't
> need any changes if you used GCC or a compatible compiler, I don't think
> they have to be GPLed. AFAIK that's always been the case for GPLed code
> and has certainly always been the case for LGPLed code.
>
> You're encouraged to GPL your original parts of the combined ensemble,
> but don't have to and can even, if you wish, use a proprietary license
> for it and distribute it only as binary.

I'm not sure what you are talking about.  My understanding that the 
various parts of the kernal all had to be linked together which make it 
one executable and so covered by the same GPL (btw, I believe the L 
stands for "license").  Separately compiled doesn't have much meaning 
does it?  Each source file can be separately compiled if it has all the 
libraries available.  It is the linking that makes it something useful 
by connecting them all together.

Heck, I have a Sony video box which has a GPL license if you dig into 
the menus enough.  Yes, they have applications running that are 
proprietary, but the OS kernel is fully GPL so they will give you the 
source if you want it.

-- 

Rick

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#9328

On 04/08/15 23:31, rickman wrote:
> My understanding that the various parts of the kernal all had to be
> linked together

Not the drivers.
Those are real time loadable and unloadable

You will compile them with the current kernel headers but they are never 
statically linked.

A minimal linux install is a kernel compiled for your hardware, drivers 
compiled for your hardware, and something like bash to execute basic 
conmmands.



-- 
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in 
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in 
someone else's pocket.

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#9337

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 04/08/15 23:31, rickman wrote:
> > My understanding that the various parts of the kernal all had to be
> > linked together
> 
> Not the drivers.
> Those are real time loadable and unloadable
> 
> You will compile them with the current kernel headers but they are never 
> statically linked.

They can be, and often are.  For example, you kinda need your storage driver
compiled in before you can reach any loadable modules.

Tends to be those things with a static footprint (the hardware never
changes) have them compiled in because it saves storage which is handy when
you have 4MB of flash.  Larger systems, or those with dynamic storage (eMMC,
USB, etc) are more likely to use modules.

> A minimal linux install is a kernel compiled for your hardware, drivers 
> compiled for your hardware, and something like bash to execute basic 
> conmmands.

The latter is often busybox.  However you don't need that - you can just run
your app as init(1) if necessary.

Theo

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#9339

Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 04/08/15 23:31, rickman wrote:
>> > My understanding that the various parts of the kernal all had to be
>> > linked together
>> 
>> Not the drivers.
>> Those are real time loadable and unloadable
>> 
>> You will compile them with the current kernel headers but they are never 
>> statically linked.
>
> They can be, and often are.  For example, you kinda need your storage driver
> compiled in before you can reach any loadable modules.

Actually, most "distribution" PC versions of Linux use a special RAMdisk
which is loaded from a file by the bootloader and has the modules required
for the storage access.  That way all the drivers can be modules, and
users who don't own the devices don't need to have these drivers in memory
(as they are when they are statically linked)

The installer figures out what modules are required to boot the system on
the target device, and creates a special RAMdisk image which is stored in
the /boot directory as /boot/initrd.

> Tends to be those things with a static footprint (the hardware never
> changes) have them compiled in because it saves storage which is handy when
> you have 4MB of flash.

True, when you have a baseline hardware like the Raspberry Pi or similar
systems (including embedded systems) it is often better to statically
link the drivers.   Except when you don't want to do that for license
reasons.

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