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Linux, Windows and rPi

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  Linux, Windows and rPi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 20:13 -0400
    Re: Linux, Windows and rPi tumppiw <tumppiw@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 03:17 +0300
    Re: Linux, Windows and rPi hda <agent700@ay.invalid> - 2015-08-03 02:26 +0200
    Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2015-08-03 02:20 +0100
      Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-03 13:04 +0000
        Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2015-08-04 02:43 +0100
          Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-04 09:25 +0000
            Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2015-08-04 16:25 +0100
              Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-04 17:30 +0000
                Re: Linux, Windows and rPi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 13:39 -0400
                  Re: Linux, Windows and rPi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-04 18:47 +0100
                Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-08-04 18:25 +0000
                  Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-04 19:19 +0000
                    Re: Linux, Windows and rPi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 16:46 -0400
                      Re: Linux, Windows and rPi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-04 22:02 +0100
                      Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-04 22:12 +0000
                        Re: Linux, Windows and rPi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 18:31 -0400
                          Re: Linux, Windows and rPi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-05 01:24 +0100
                            Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2015-08-05 10:55 +0100
                              Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-08-05 10:19 +0000
                        Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2015-08-05 03:31 +0100
                          Re: Linux, Windows and rPi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-08-05 08:22 +0100
                          Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-05 08:11 +0000
                            Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2015-08-05 09:42 +0100
                              Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Folderol <general@musically.me.uk> - 2015-08-05 17:14 +0100
                        Re: Linux, Windows and rPi mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-08-05 20:01 +0100
                          Re: Linux, Windows and rPi alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-08-05 19:42 +0000
                            Re: Linux, Windows and rPi alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2015-08-05 19:44 +0000
                          Re: Linux, Windows and rPi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 15:55 -0400
            Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2015-08-04 20:27 +0100
              Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-04 20:19 +0000
          Re: Linux, Windows and rPi druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2015-08-04 20:36 +0100
    Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-08-03 05:33 +0000
      Re: Linux, Windows and rPi druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2015-08-03 20:56 +0100
        Re: Linux, Windows and rPi mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-08-03 21:09 +0100
          Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-03 21:08 +0000
            Re: Linux, Windows and rPi "Kerr Mudd-John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2015-08-11 10:31 +0100
          Re: Linux, Windows and rPi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 22:03 -0400
            Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Rob <nomail@example.com> - 2015-08-04 07:16 +0000
              Re: Linux, Windows and rPi John Doe <john@doe.com> - 2015-08-04 09:28 +0000
                Re: Linux, Windows and rPi David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2015-08-04 10:38 +0100
              Re: Linux, Windows and rPi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-08-04 09:39 +0000

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#9329

On Tue, 4 Aug 2015 22:12:53 +0000 (UTC)
Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:

>  I find this is quite odd, considering 
> that a lot of American pronunciation is still very close to
> Elizabethan English

Some of us have evolved since then.

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#9332

On 05/08/15 03:31, Rob Morley wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Aug 2015 22:12:53 +0000 (UTC)
> Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
>
>>   I find this is quite odd, considering
>> that a lot of American pronunciation is still very close to
>> Elizabethan English
>
> Some of us have evolved since then.
>
Whereas a lot of Essex English is still very close to neanderthal.


-- 
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in 
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in 
someone else's pocket.

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#9333

On Wed, 05 Aug 2015 03:31:35 +0100, Rob Morley wrote:

> On Tue, 4 Aug 2015 22:12:53 +0000 (UTC)
> Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
> 
>>  I find this is quite odd, considering
>> that a lot of American pronunciation is still very close to Elizabethan
>> English
> 
> Some of us have evolved since then.
>
Judging by some radio interviews I've heard recently, the correct term is 
'devolved'. At least Elizabethan pronunciation was clear and easily 
understood.


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#9335

In article <mpsget$fuq$1@dont-email.me>, Martin Gregorie
<martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Aug 2015 03:31:35 +0100, Rob Morley wrote:

> > On Tue, 4 Aug 2015 22:12:53 +0000 (UTC) Martin Gregorie
> > <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
> > 
> >>  I find this is quite odd, considering that a lot of American
> >> pronunciation is still very close to Elizabethan English
> > 
> > Some of us have evolved since then.
> >
> Judging by some radio interviews I've heard recently, the correct term
> is 'devolved'. At least Elizabethan pronunciation was clear and easily
> understood.

We know that because someone found an Elizabethan tape recorder.

-- 
from Tim Hill who welcomes incoming email to tim at timil dot com.
* Share in a better energy supplier: http://tjrh.eu/coopnrg
* Share in cheaper ethical telecoms: http://tjrh.eu/phone
* Have a genuine & spam-proof address for Usenet http://www.invalid.org.uk/

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#9341

On Wed, 05 Aug 2015 09:42:15 +0100
Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> wrote:

> In article <mpsget$fuq$1@dont-email.me>, Martin Gregorie
> <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
> > On Wed, 05 Aug 2015 03:31:35 +0100, Rob Morley wrote:
> 
> > > On Tue, 4 Aug 2015 22:12:53 +0000 (UTC) Martin Gregorie
> > > <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
> > > 
> > >>  I find this is quite odd, considering that a lot of American
> > >> pronunciation is still very close to Elizabethan English
> > > 
> > > Some of us have evolved since then.
> > >
> > Judging by some radio interviews I've heard recently, the correct term
> > is 'devolved'. At least Elizabethan pronunciation was clear and easily
> > understood.
> 
> We know that because someone found an Elizabethan tape recorder.
 
With an original recording of Ron Goodwin's Elizabethan serenade :)

-- 
W J G

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#9342

On 04/08/2015 23:12, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> IIRC the GPL says that you have to make the GPLed code you're using and
> any mods to it available to users under the GPL and pass the changes back
> to the original author.

As usual YDNRC!

You only have to make your source and any build scripts etc. available 
if you **distribute** anything that uses modified GPL code. You can 
change it for your own private or internal company use and you don't 
need to do jack.

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#9343

On Wed, 05 Aug 2015 20:01:58 +0100, mm0fmf wrote:

> On 04/08/2015 23:12, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> IIRC the GPL says that you have to make the GPLed code you're using and
>> any mods to it available to users under the GPL and pass the changes
>> back to the original author.
> 
> As usual YDNRC!
> 
> You only have to make your source and any build scripts etc. available
> if you **distribute** anything that uses modified GPL code. You can
> change it for your own private or internal company use and you don't
> need to do jack.

Putting it on a device & selling it is distributing

as it happens TomTom do make the sourcecode for the Linux kernel they use 
available

this does not stop them using non GPL binary Blobs for proprietary 
drivers (i the same way Nvidia make binary drivers available without 
releasing the source code)


-- 
We secure our friends not by accepting favors but by doing them.
		-- Thucydides

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#9344

On Wed, 05 Aug 2015 19:42:50 +0000, alister wrote:

> On Wed, 05 Aug 2015 20:01:58 +0100, mm0fmf wrote:
> 
>> On 04/08/2015 23:12, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>>> IIRC the GPL says that you have to make the GPLed code you're using
>>> and any mods to it available to users under the GPL and pass the
>>> changes back to the original author.
>> 
>> As usual YDNRC!
>> 
>> You only have to make your source and any build scripts etc. available
>> if you **distribute** anything that uses modified GPL code. You can
>> change it for your own private or internal company use and you don't
>> need to do jack.
> 
> Putting it on a device & selling it is distributing
> 
> as it happens TomTom do make the sourcecode for the Linux kernel they
> use available
> 
> this does not stop them using non GPL binary Blobs for proprietary
> drivers (i the same way Nvidia make binary drivers available without
> releasing the source code)

forgot the link
http://uk.support.tomtom.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2276/~/source-code-
for-linux-kernel-used-in-tomtom-devices



-- 
Unix: Where /sbin/init is still Job 1.

   -- From a Slashdot.org post

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#9345

On 8/5/2015 3:01 PM, mm0fmf wrote:
> On 04/08/2015 23:12, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> IIRC the GPL says that you have to make the GPLed code you're using and
>> any mods to it available to users under the GPL and pass the changes back
>> to the original author.
>
> As usual YDNRC!
>
> You only have to make your source and any build scripts etc. available
> if you **distribute** anything that uses modified GPL code. You can
> change it for your own private or internal company use and you don't
> need to do jack.

YAANUBA!

-- 

Rick

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#9315

On Tue, 4 Aug 2015 09:25:35 +0000 (UTC)
Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:

> Maybe so, but the sudden disappearance of many brands of satnavs 
> (Binatone, Vertica, Medion to name a few) from Maplins and online
> shops a month or three after M$ killed WM5/6 without an apparent
> successor and their subsequent arrival as NIB items on eBay looked
> too well choreographed to be coincidence.
> 
I expect the generic Chinese sat navs running WinCE6 will continue to be
available on eBay for £30.  When I dropped mine and needed to replace it
in a hurry I bought an Android tablet, checking eBay you can now get a 7
inch Android phablet with GPS for £35.  :-o

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#9321

On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 20:27:31 +0100, Rob Morley wrote:

> On Tue, 4 Aug 2015 09:25:35 +0000 (UTC)
> Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> Maybe so, but the sudden disappearance of many brands of satnavs
>> (Binatone, Vertica, Medion to name a few) from Maplins and online shops
>> a month or three after M$ killed WM5/6 without an apparent successor
>> and their subsequent arrival as NIB items on eBay looked too well
>> choreographed to be coincidence.
>> 
> I expect the generic Chinese sat navs running WinCE6 will continue to be
> available on eBay for £30.  When I dropped mine and needed to replace it
> in a hurry I bought an Android tablet, checking eBay you can now get a 7
> inch Android phablet with GPS for £35.  :-o
>
Unfortunately, some of us have space limitations. In my case I a 3.5" 
screen is fine. I can just about get away with a 4.2" satnav provided it 
has reasonably a narrow bezel. A 5" screen hides too much of my control 
panel panel and, before you ask, the same would apply to most current 
phones. 

This picture which shows my navigation software running on a 3.5" 
Binatone: 
http://www.gregorie.org/gliding/libelle/FLARM_panel.jpg

There is no way the PNA can be moved further to the right because it 
already touches the cockpit side and, as you can see, even a 4.2" display 
would be starting to hide the FLARM display and radio.


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#9319

On 04/08/2015 02:43, Rob Morley wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 13:04:22 +0000 (UTC)
>> Thats largely due to Microsoft's abrupt axing of Windows Mobile/CE
>> about a year ago, soon followed by the disappearance of all PDAs and
>> PNAs from shops except those running Android or proprietary OSen.
>>
> Discontinuing the product is a symptom of its fairly negligible market
> share, not a cause.

At it's peak Windows CE had a significant portion of the mobile device 
market (PDAs as they were then), as it was very easy to develop for 
being a cut down Win-NT system.

It's market share was an order of magnitude grater than any of 
Microsoft's later phone based OS's, which have been comprehensively 
ignored by manufacturers, developers, and all but the lowest budget 
consumers.

---druck

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#9285

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was thinking about Linux and how it has not impacted Windows much 
> either in sales or design.  I suppose there are a few markets where 
> Linux has a significant impact on Windows sales, but for the most part I 
> think MS doesn't need to fear a loss of sales due to Linux.

Linux has taken a big chunck out of the embedded software market that
Microsoft would have liked to have.  But they neglected the non-Intel
market for a long time.

> But MS has decided to port Windows 10 to the rPi.  I have no idea how 
> well Windows 10 will work, even on the new rPi 2 with more memory.  I 
> can only imagine that MS is concerned that the rPi will be influencing 
> young minds with their exposure to the rPi and planting seeds which will 
> someday seriously impact their market.

The big misunderstanding going around is that "Windows on the Pi" will
be something like "Windows on the PC".  It will not be.  It is the
Windows IoT version, a Windows version that is targeted to the embedded
systems market and that does not have much to do with Windows for the PC.

Microsoft hope to replace Linux on devices with this Windows version, and
if this is ever to happen they will have to have a demo platform and a
way to introduce it to the kids.  That is why there is "Windows for Pi".
Not to run IE, Word or Outlook on the Pi.

> Anyone think this is likely?  Will the rPi help Linux gain significant 
> user share over Windows in the days ahead?

The Pi has made Linux more visible to some people.  Microsoft of course
don't like that, and they want to do something about it.  But when people
now finally start to use Linux as their desktop OS instead of Windows,
it will not be because of the Pi, but because of their changing ways of
doing business.   Not that I think that will happen, the general public
normally does not really care where their data is and who is peeking into
it.

In practice, it may well be that more devices are running Linux than are
running Windows.   But most people don't know.

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#9289

On 03/08/2015 06:33, Rob wrote:
> The big misunderstanding going around is that "Windows on the Pi" will
> be something like "Windows on the PC".  It will not be.  It is the
> Windows IoT version, a Windows version that is targeted to the embedded
> systems market and that does not have much to do with Windows for the PC.

And unlike a Raspberry Pi with Linux which can natively run any number 
of development environments with a text or graphical GUI, a Pi running 
Win10IOT needs to be connected to a PC running full Windows 10 to be 
able to write even the simplest program.

---druck

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#9290

On 03/08/2015 20:56, druck wrote:
> On 03/08/2015 06:33, Rob wrote:
>> The big misunderstanding going around is that "Windows on the Pi" will
>> be something like "Windows on the PC".  It will not be.  It is the
>> Windows IoT version, a Windows version that is targeted to the embedded
>> systems market and that does not have much to do with Windows for the PC.
>
> And unlike a Raspberry Pi with Linux which can natively run any number
> of development environments with a text or graphical GUI, a Pi running
> Win10IOT needs to be connected to a PC running full Windows 10 to be
> able to write even the simplest program.
>

Yes, but Win10 for the development machine can be had for nothing.

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#9291

On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 21:09:52 +0100, mm0fmf wrote:

> On 03/08/2015 20:56, druck wrote:
>> On 03/08/2015 06:33, Rob wrote:
>>> The big misunderstanding going around is that "Windows on the Pi" will
>>> be something like "Windows on the PC".  It will not be.  It is the
>>> Windows IoT version, a Windows version that is targeted to the
>>> embedded systems market and that does not have much to do with Windows
>>> for the PC.
>>
>> And unlike a Raspberry Pi with Linux which can natively run any number
>> of development environments with a text or graphical GUI, a Pi running
>> Win10IOT needs to be connected to a PC running full Windows 10 to be
>> able to write even the simplest program.
>>
>>
> Yes, but Win10 for the development machine can be had for nothing.

...but only if you've got a license for Win 7 or 8.x


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#9416

On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 22:08:21 +0100, Martin Gregorie  
<martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:

> On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 21:09:52 +0100, mm0fmf wrote:
>
>> On 03/08/2015 20:56, druck wrote:
>>> On 03/08/2015 06:33, Rob wrote:
>>>> The big misunderstanding going around is that "Windows on the Pi" will
>>>> be something like "Windows on the PC".  It will not be.  It is the
>>>> Windows IoT version, a Windows version that is targeted to the
>>>> embedded systems market and that does not have much to do with Windows
>>>> for the PC.
>>>
>>> And unlike a Raspberry Pi with Linux which can natively run any number
>>> of development environments with a text or graphical GUI, a Pi running
>>> Win10IOT needs to be connected to a PC running full Windows 10 to be
>>> able to write even the simplest program.
>>>
>>>
>> Yes, but Win10 for the development machine can be had for nothing.
>
> ...but only if you've got a license for Win 7 or 8.x
>
>
and the hardware!



-- 
Bah, and indeed, Humbug

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#9294

On 8/3/2015 4:09 PM, mm0fmf wrote:
> On 03/08/2015 20:56, druck wrote:
>> On 03/08/2015 06:33, Rob wrote:
>>> The big misunderstanding going around is that "Windows on the Pi" will
>>> be something like "Windows on the PC".  It will not be.  It is the
>>> Windows IoT version, a Windows version that is targeted to the embedded
>>> systems market and that does not have much to do with Windows for the
>>> PC.
>>
>> And unlike a Raspberry Pi with Linux which can natively run any number
>> of development environments with a text or graphical GUI, a Pi running
>> Win10IOT needs to be connected to a PC running full Windows 10 to be
>> able to write even the simplest program.
>>
>
> Yes, but Win10 for the development machine can be had for nothing.

That's not so clear.  My understanding is that they are giving it away 
for now, but plan to make it a subscription service in the future.  You 
will have to pay every year rather than just once.

-- 

Rick

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#9297

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/3/2015 4:09 PM, mm0fmf wrote:
>> On 03/08/2015 20:56, druck wrote:
>>> On 03/08/2015 06:33, Rob wrote:
>>>> The big misunderstanding going around is that "Windows on the Pi" will
>>>> be something like "Windows on the PC".  It will not be.  It is the
>>>> Windows IoT version, a Windows version that is targeted to the embedded
>>>> systems market and that does not have much to do with Windows for the
>>>> PC.
>>>
>>> And unlike a Raspberry Pi with Linux which can natively run any number
>>> of development environments with a text or graphical GUI, a Pi running
>>> Win10IOT needs to be connected to a PC running full Windows 10 to be
>>> able to write even the simplest program.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, but Win10 for the development machine can be had for nothing.
>
> That's not so clear.  My understanding is that they are giving it away 
> for now, but plan to make it a subscription service in the future.  You 
> will have to pay every year rather than just once.

You already have to pay now, by handing them your personal data and by
agreeing to their terms of usage.  (have you read them?)
Maybe later they'll ask for money as well.

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#9299

On 2015-08-04, Rob <nomail@example.com> wrote:
> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 8/3/2015 4:09 PM, mm0fmf wrote:
>>> On 03/08/2015 20:56, druck wrote:
>>>> On 03/08/2015 06:33, Rob wrote:
>>>>> The big misunderstanding going around is that "Windows on the Pi" will
>>>>> be something like "Windows on the PC".  It will not be.  It is the
>>>>> Windows IoT version, a Windows version that is targeted to the embedded
>>>>> systems market and that does not have much to do with Windows for the
>>>>> PC.
>>>>
>>>> And unlike a Raspberry Pi with Linux which can natively run any number
>>>> of development environments with a text or graphical GUI, a Pi running
>>>> Win10IOT needs to be connected to a PC running full Windows 10 to be
>>>> able to write even the simplest program.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, but Win10 for the development machine can be had for nothing.
>>
>> That's not so clear.  My understanding is that they are giving it away 
>> for now, but plan to make it a subscription service in the future.  You 
>> will have to pay every year rather than just once.
>
> You already have to pay now, by handing them your personal data and by
> agreeing to their terms of usage.  (have you read them?)
> Maybe later they'll ask for money as well.

Is Windows 10 free for everybody?  I don't have any Windows license at
the moment, and I'm not going to have - can I just download Windows 10
and run it?

All in all, it seems like Microsoft is desperately trying to gain more
users.  Add compulsory Secure Boot on x86 to all of that.
-- 
John Doe

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