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Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012

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  Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2018-09-20 18:01 -0600
    Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-20 20:22 -0400
      Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2018-09-20 18:37 -0600
        Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-20 20:51 -0400
          Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2018-09-20 19:45 -0600
            Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-20 22:09 -0400
              Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2018-09-21 05:08 -0600
                Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-21 09:20 -0400
                  Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2018-09-21 09:06 -0600
                    Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-21 11:31 -0400
                      Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2018-09-21 10:50 -0600
                        Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2018-09-21 12:53 -0400
                        Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-21 13:06 -0400
                    Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2018-09-21 12:40 -0400
                    Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2018-09-24 09:07 +0200
                      Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2018-09-24 20:23 -0600
                Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-09-21 22:38 +0000
                  Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-21 18:54 -0400
            Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-09-21 11:13 +0000
              Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2018-09-21 10:49 -0600
                Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-21 13:06 -0400
                Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-09-21 22:47 +0000
        Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 georg.schwarz@freenet.de (Georg Schwarz) - 2018-09-21 19:21 +0200
          Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-21 13:24 -0400
            Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-09-21 22:49 +0000
              Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 georg.schwarz@freenet.de (Georg Schwarz) - 2018-09-22 00:55 +0200
                Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2018-09-21 19:14 -0600
                  Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-09-22 07:45 +0000
                    Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2018-09-22 07:40 -0600
            Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 georg.schwarz@freenet.de (Georg Schwarz) - 2018-09-22 00:51 +0200
    Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-09-21 13:41 +1200
      Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2018-09-21 05:17 -0600
    Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2018-09-25 20:20 -0600
      Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-25 22:26 -0400
        Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2018-09-25 21:04 -0600
          Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-25 23:09 -0400
            Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Andreas Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> - 2018-09-26 08:09 +0200
              Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-09-27 00:49 +1200
              Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2018-09-26 07:37 -0600
              Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 dcohenspam@talktalk.net (Daniel Cohen) - 2018-09-27 08:08 +0100
                Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-09-28 17:43 +0000
          Re: Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012 Krzysztof Mitko <invalid@kmitko.at.list.dot.pl> - 2018-09-26 05:56 +0200

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#118201 — Updating a MacBook Pro, mid-2012

What would be the easiest way to update this computer to to the latest 
supported version of OS X?

The computer currently has 10.9 installed.

Thanks.

-- 
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 59.0.1  (64 bit)
Thunderbird 60.0.2
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
      and it's gone!"

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#118203

In article <po1cci$urc$1@news.albasani.net>, Ken Springer
<wordworks@greeleynet.com> wrote:

> What would be the easiest way to update this computer to to the latest 
> supported version of OS X?

download the installer from the app store and run it. the store will
not offer an unsupported version. 

consider waiting until monday, when mojave will be released, and if
you're not in a rush, wait a week or two beyond that for its .1
release.

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#118204

On 9/20/18 6:22 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article <po1cci$urc$1@news.albasani.net>, Ken Springer
> <wordworks@greeleynet.com> wrote:
> 
>> What would be the easiest way to update this computer to to the latest
>> supported version of OS X?
> 
> download the installer from the app store and run it. the store will
> not offer an unsupported version.
> 
> consider waiting until monday, when mojave will be released, and if
> you're not in a rush, wait a week or two beyond that for its .1
> release.

Thanks, nospam.

Will this unit run mojave?  It's got 8 GB of RAM.

I'm not sure the owner has an Apple ID/account of any type.  Even if she 
does, I'm not sure she would even remember having one.

She bought the computer used, and I do not know any of the details about 
that.

She's not only very computer illiterate, but she's paranoid of losing 
thousands of photos she's taken over the years.


-- 
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 59.0.1  (64 bit)
Thunderbird 60.0.2
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
      and it's gone!"

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#118205

In article <po1efe$2cu$1@news.albasani.net>, Ken Springer
<wordworks@greeleynet.com> wrote:

> 
> Will this unit run mojave?  It's got 8 GB of RAM.

<https://support.apple.com/macos/mojave>
  MacBook Pro models introduced in mid 2012 or later

> I'm not sure the owner has an Apple ID/account of any type.  Even if she 
> does, I'm not sure she would even remember having one.

she probably does, but if not, create a new one. no big deal.

> She bought the computer used, and I do not know any of the details about 
> that.

that shouldn't matter (but potentially could, just not likely).

> She's not only very computer illiterate, but she's paranoid of losing 
> thousands of photos she's taken over the years.

then she would certainly have multiple backups of the photos (and
everything else), with at least one copy offsite, so that nothing would
be lost in case of disaster.

she does have backups, right?
if not, *that* is your first step.

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#118208

On 9/20/18 6:51 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article <po1efe$2cu$1@news.albasani.net>, Ken Springer
> <wordworks@greeleynet.com> wrote:
> 
>>
>> Will this unit run mojave?  It's got 8 GB of RAM.
> 
> <https://support.apple.com/macos/mojave>
>    MacBook Pro models introduced in mid 2012 or later
> 
>> I'm not sure the owner has an Apple ID/account of any type.  Even if she
>> does, I'm not sure she would even remember having one.
> 
> she probably does, but if not, create a new one. no big deal.
> 
>> She bought the computer used, and I do not know any of the details about
>> that.
> 
> that shouldn't matter (but potentially could, just not likely).
> 
>> She's not only very computer illiterate, but she's paranoid of losing
>> thousands of photos she's taken over the years.
> 
> then she would certainly have multiple backups of the photos (and
> everything else), with at least one copy offsite, so that nothing would
> be lost in case of disaster.
> 
> she does have backups, right?
> if not, *that* is your first step.

Yes, she does.  Somehow, I know not how, she got Time Machine running. 
Her backup drive is just 1TB and should be bigger, but that will be an 
issue to tackle later.  But, even after trying to explain Time Machine, 
I can still tell on her face she really doesn't understand it.

This got started when she called me and said she was getting a message 
saying her System drive was almost full.

I went over, and found her iPhoto library was 865GB!!!

So, I had her buy an external drive, and moved the library to the 
external drive, and set iPhoto to use it.  Deleted the library on the 
System drive, and that problem was solved.

But, she's still paranoid about losing those photos, Time Machine be 
damned.  So, on her own, she bought another external drive and wanted to 
back up her photos on that.  So, I showed her how to copy her iPhoto 
library from the one drive to the new drive.  Takes well over the night 
to do.  Before doing this copying, she thought that after adding a half 
dozen photos to the library, it would take no time at all back up *just* 
the new photos in the library.

Now when she sees how long each new copy process takes to accomplish, I 
think she'll give up that idea in search of some thing different.

What I'd like to be able to do is have Time Machine back up to 2 drives 
at the same time.  This would be after I'm sure she understands Time 
Machine and how to retrieve the earlier files.

Better, would be to get her to have multiple libraries, but that might 
be a hopeless dream.

She's clear that with the OS upgrade, she'll have to learn Photos.

She takes some absolutely extraordinary photos of hummingbirds in 
flight.  Just beyond gorgeous.


-- 
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 59.0.1  (64 bit)
Thunderbird 60.0.2
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
      and it's gone!"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#118210

In article <po1ig0$745$1@news.albasani.net>, Ken Springer
<wordworks@greeleynet.com> wrote:

> But, she's still paranoid about losing those photos, Time Machine be 
> damned.  So, on her own, she bought another external drive and wanted to 
> back up her photos on that.  So, I showed her how to copy her iPhoto 
> library from the one drive to the new drive.  Takes well over the night 
> to do.  Before doing this copying, she thought that after adding a half 
> dozen photos to the library, it would take no time at all back up *just* 
> the new photos in the library.
>
> Now when she sees how long each new copy process takes to accomplish, I 
> think she'll give up that idea in search of some thing different.

what she needs is a cloning app, such as carbon copy cloner, which will
copy only changed files rather than everything each time, and not just
the photo library either, but the entire drive (or selected files if
desired).

it can also be set up for scheduled backups, which can be set to happen
overnight or whenever she's not using the computer. it can even wake
the computer and then go back to sleep when the clone is done. there is
also a menu extra to initiate a clone at any time.

> What I'd like to be able to do is have Time Machine back up to 2 drives 
> at the same time.  This would be after I'm sure she understands Time 
> Machine and how to retrieve the earlier files.

what you want is something in addition to time machine, such as a
clone, since they each cover different types of situations.

also, consider a network attached server rather than have a bunch of
drives connected all the time, which can also be configured to back
itself up. this does add a little more complexity (at least initially),
but you did say she's paranoid. once set up, it can be entirely
automatic with no user intervention.

> Better, would be to get her to have multiple libraries, but that might 
> be a hopeless dream.

definitely not.

> She's clear that with the OS upgrade, she'll have to learn Photos.

photos is much better than iphoto, but...

> She takes some absolutely extraordinary photos of hummingbirds in 
> flight.  Just beyond gorgeous.

...if she's that good, she should be using something more capable than
apple's photos app, such as adobe lightroom.

photos (and iphoto before it) are for casual users, not accomplished
photographers.

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#118213

On 9/20/18 8:09 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article <po1ig0$745$1@news.albasani.net>, Ken Springer
> <wordworks@greeleynet.com> wrote:
> 
>> But, she's still paranoid about losing those photos, Time Machine be
>> damned.  So, on her own, she bought another external drive and wanted to
>> back up her photos on that.  So, I showed her how to copy her iPhoto
>> library from the one drive to the new drive.  Takes well over the night
>> to do.  Before doing this copying, she thought that after adding a half
>> dozen photos to the library, it would take no time at all back up *just*
>> the new photos in the library.
>>
>> Now when she sees how long each new copy process takes to accomplish, I
>> think she'll give up that idea in search of some thing different.
> 
> what she needs is a cloning app, such as carbon copy cloner, which will
> copy only changed files rather than everything each time, and not just
> the photo library either, but the entire drive (or selected files if
> desired).

If she actually had the individual files on the hard drive, this would 
work.  But, she doesn't.  Everything goes into the library.

> it can also be set up for scheduled backups, which can be set to happen
> overnight or whenever she's not using the computer. it can even wake
> the computer and then go back to sleep when the clone is done. there is
> also a menu extra to initiate a clone at any time.

At this point in time, that won't work.  She doesn't have the 
foundational knowledge to understand this.  Rather like trying to teach 
someone algebra, when they don't know how to add and subtract.

>> What I'd like to be able to do is have Time Machine back up to 2 drives
>> at the same time.  This would be after I'm sure she understands Time
>> Machine and how to retrieve the earlier files.

> what you want is something in addition to time machine, such as a
> clone, since they each cover different types of situations.

But, as I noted, that's not something she would understand, so it would 
be a waste of time to even try.

> also, consider a network attached server rather than have a bunch of
> drives connected all the time, which can also be configured to back
> itself up. this does add a little more complexity (at least initially),
> but you did say she's paranoid. once set up, it can be entirely
> automatic with no user intervention.

Whoa!!!  Quit right here!  I need to try to stay as close to the KISS 
principle as possible.

<snip>

>> She takes some absolutely extraordinary photos of hummingbirds in
>> flight.  Just beyond gorgeous.
> 
> ...if she's that good, she should be using something more capable than
> apple's photos app, such as adobe lightroom.

Lightroom and Photoshop subscription is part of the reason for the OS 
upgrade.


-- 
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 59.0.1  (64 bit)
Thunderbird 60.0.2
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
      and it's gone!"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#118217

In article <po2jei$63n$1@news.albasani.net>, Ken Springer
<wordworks@greeleynet.com> wrote:

> >> But, she's still paranoid about losing those photos, Time Machine be
> >> damned.  So, on her own, she bought another external drive and wanted to
> >> back up her photos on that.  So, I showed her how to copy her iPhoto
> >> library from the one drive to the new drive.  Takes well over the night
> >> to do.  Before doing this copying, she thought that after adding a half
> >> dozen photos to the library, it would take no time at all back up *just*
> >> the new photos in the library.
> >>
> >> Now when she sees how long each new copy process takes to accomplish, I
> >> think she'll give up that idea in search of some thing different.
> > 
> > what she needs is a cloning app, such as carbon copy cloner, which will
> > copy only changed files rather than everything each time, and not just
> > the photo library either, but the entire drive (or selected files if
> > desired).
> 
> If she actually had the individual files on the hard drive, this would 
> work.  But, she doesn't.  Everything goes into the library.

there's more on her hard drive than just a photo library. everything
should be backed up, multiple times.

> > it can also be set up for scheduled backups, which can be set to happen
> > overnight or whenever she's not using the computer. it can even wake
> > the computer and then go back to sleep when the clone is done. there is
> > also a menu extra to initiate a clone at any time.
> 
> At this point in time, that won't work.  She doesn't have the 
> foundational knowledge to understand this.  Rather like trying to teach 
> someone algebra, when they don't know how to add and subtract.

then someone sets it up for her, probably you but it doesn't have to be.

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#118220

On 9/21/18 7:20 AM, nospam wrote:
> In article <po2jei$63n$1@news.albasani.net>, Ken Springer
> <wordworks@greeleynet.com> wrote:
> 
>>>> But, she's still paranoid about losing those photos, Time Machine be
>>>> damned.  So, on her own, she bought another external drive and wanted to
>>>> back up her photos on that.  So, I showed her how to copy her iPhoto
>>>> library from the one drive to the new drive.  Takes well over the night
>>>> to do.  Before doing this copying, she thought that after adding a half
>>>> dozen photos to the library, it would take no time at all back up *just*
>>>> the new photos in the library.
>>>>
>>>> Now when she sees how long each new copy process takes to accomplish, I
>>>> think she'll give up that idea in search of some thing different.
>>>
>>> what she needs is a cloning app, such as carbon copy cloner, which will
>>> copy only changed files rather than everything each time, and not just
>>> the photo library either, but the entire drive (or selected files if
>>> desired).
>>
>> If she actually had the individual files on the hard drive, this would
>> work.  But, she doesn't.  Everything goes into the library.
> 
> there's more on her hard drive than just a photo library. everything
> should be backed up, multiple times.

I know.

>>> it can also be set up for scheduled backups, which can be set to happen
>>> overnight or whenever she's not using the computer. it can even wake
>>> the computer and then go back to sleep when the clone is done. there is
>>> also a menu extra to initiate a clone at any time.
>>
>> At this point in time, that won't work.  She doesn't have the
>> foundational knowledge to understand this.  Rather like trying to teach
>> someone algebra, when they don't know how to add and subtract.
> 
> then someone sets it up for her, probably you but it doesn't have to be.

You don't know this woman, I would not bet against her setting it up 
herself.

That's a real downside of a Mac, it's so damned easy to use without 
knowing what you are doing.

-- 
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 59.0.1  (64 bit)
Thunderbird 60.0.2
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
      and it's gone!"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#118221

In article <po31d2$9pr$1@news.albasani.net>, Ken Springer
<wordworks@greeleynet.com> wrote:

> That's a real downside of a Mac, it's so damned easy to use without 
> knowing what you are doing.

it's not a downside at all. it's one of its best features. products
that are hard to use are poorly designed.

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#118224

On 9/21/18 9:31 AM, nospam wrote:
> In article <po31d2$9pr$1@news.albasani.net>, Ken Springer
> <wordworks@greeleynet.com> wrote:
> 
>> That's a real downside of a Mac, it's so damned easy to use without
>> knowing what you are doing.
> 
> it's not a downside at all. it's one of its best features. products
> that are hard to use are poorly designed.

I just gotta disagree, when you make things *too* easy, people don't 
want to understand how they work.


-- 
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 59.0.1  (64 bit)
Thunderbird 60.0.2
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
      and it's gone!"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#118225

On 2018-09-21 12:50, Ken Springer wrote:
> On 9/21/18 9:31 AM, nospam wrote:
>> In article <po31d2$9pr$1@news.albasani.net>, Ken Springer
>> <wordworks@greeleynet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> That's a real downside of a Mac, it's so damned easy to use without
>>> knowing what you are doing.
>>
>> it's not a downside at all. it's one of its best features. products
>> that are hard to use are poorly designed.
> 
> I just gotta disagree, when you make things *too* easy, people don't 
> want to understand how they work.

Apple sell ~20M Macs every year.  That works out to about 120 - 150M in 
regular service (MK III Guestimator).  Out of that, only a slim % want 
to understand how they work.  Much like most people don't really have a 
clue how a car engine works.  It just does.  Mostly.

-- 
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants.  Proof that we
  need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
                                           - unknown protester

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#118227

In article <po37ge$703$2@news.albasani.net>, Ken Springer
<wordworks@greeleynet.com> wrote:

> >> That's a real downside of a Mac, it's so damned easy to use without
> >> knowing what you are doing.
> > 
> > it's not a downside at all. it's one of its best features. products
> > that are hard to use are poorly designed.
> 
> I just gotta disagree, when you make things *too* easy, people don't 
> want to understand how they work.

they don't need to. 

what matters is does the device do the tasks the user needs to do.

how it works internally only matters if someone is building the device
or repairing it.

end users can certainly learn about that if they want, but forcing them
to understand all of the details just to use it is incredibly bad
design.

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#118222

On 2018-09-21 11:06, Ken Springer wrote:

> That's a real downside of a Mac, it's so damned easy to use without 
> knowing what you are doing.

Which sets up unrealistic expectations for things that are less obvious.


-- 
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants.  Proof that we
  need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
                                           - unknown protester

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#118339

Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> wrote:

> You don't know this woman, I would not bet against her setting it up
> herself.
> 
> That's a real downside of a Mac, it's so damned easy to use without
> knowing what you are doing.

No big deal. I set up one of my older Macs for my mother in law.
She likes to play around and test things out (which is good).
Once she fu**ed up the System-folder by deleting some stuff.
My fault, because she had the admin-password.
I changed the admin Password and now she can mess around in her
user-folder all she wants without beeing able to trash the system.
Problem solved :-)

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#118356

On 9/24/18 1:07 AM, Bernd Fröhlich wrote:
> Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> wrote:
> 
>> You don't know this woman, I would not bet against her setting it up
>> herself.
>>
>> That's a real downside of a Mac, it's so damned easy to use without
>> knowing what you are doing.
> 
> No big deal. I set up one of my older Macs for my mother in law.
> She likes to play around and test things out (which is good).
> Once she fu**ed up the System-folder by deleting some stuff.
> My fault, because she had the admin-password.
> I changed the admin Password and now she can mess around in her
> user-folder all she wants without beeing able to trash the system.
> Problem solved :-)

ROFL

When I fix someone's Windows system, I create an Administrator account 
with admin privileges, and then a standard users account.  Then, I tell 
them, if they use the admin account, I'll kill 'em!  LOL


-- 
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 59.0.1  (64 bit)
Thunderbird 60.0.2
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
      and it's gone!"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#118244

In message <po2jei$63n$1@news.albasani.net> Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> wrote:
> On 9/20/18 8:09 PM, nospam wrote:
>> In article <po1ig0$745$1@news.albasani.net>, Ken Springer
>> <wordworks@greeleynet.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> But, she's still paranoid about losing those photos, Time Machine be
>>> damned.  So, on her own, she bought another external drive and wanted to
>>> back up her photos on that.  So, I showed her how to copy her iPhoto
>>> library from the one drive to the new drive.  Takes well over the night
>>> to do.  Before doing this copying, she thought that after adding a half
>>> dozen photos to the library, it would take no time at all back up *just*
>>> the new photos in the library.
>>>
>>> Now when she sees how long each new copy process takes to accomplish, I
>>> think she'll give up that idea in search of some thing different.
>> 
>> what she needs is a cloning app, such as carbon copy cloner, which will
>> copy only changed files rather than everything each time, and not just
>> the photo library either, but the entire drive (or selected files if
>> desired).

> If she actually had the individual files on the hard drive, this would 
> work.  But, she doesn't.  Everything goes into the library.

The Library is a folder. This works perfectly well.

>> it can also be set up for scheduled backups, which can be set to happen
>> overnight or whenever she's not using the computer. it can even wake
>> the computer and then go back to sleep when the clone is done. there is
>> also a menu extra to initiate a clone at any time.

> At this point in time, that won't work.  She doesn't have the 
> foundational knowledge to understand this.  Rather like trying to teach 
> someone algebra, when they don't know how to add and subtract.

"Don't touch the computer for 24 hours"

>> what you want is something in addition to time machine, such as a
>> clone, since they each cover different types of situations.

> But, as I noted, that's not something she would understand, so it would 
> be a waste of time to even try.

She doesn't have to understand it, it happens automatically.

>> also, consider a network attached server rather than have a bunch of
>> drives connected all the time, which can also be configured to back
>> itself up. this does add a little more complexity (at least initially),
>> but you did say she's paranoid. once set up, it can be entirely
>> automatic with no user intervention.

> Whoa!!!  Quit right here!  I need to try to stay as close to the KISS 
> principle as possible.

From her point of view a NAS is the same as an external drive.


-- 
Angie, Angie, when will those clouds all disappear?
Angie, Angie, where will it lead us from here?
With no lovin' in our soul and no money in our coats You can't say we're satisfied
But Angie, Angie--You can't say we never tried

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#118249

In article <slrnpqasnl.300.g.kreme@Snow.local>, Lewis
<g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:


> >> also, consider a network attached server rather than have a bunch of
> >> drives connected all the time, which can also be configured to back
> >> itself up. this does add a little more complexity (at least initially),
> >> but you did say she's paranoid. once set up, it can be entirely
> >> automatic with no user intervention.
> 
> > Whoa!!!  Quit right here!  I need to try to stay as close to the KISS 
> > principle as possible.
> 
> From her point of view a NAS is the same as an external drive.

one which can back itself up to multiple other devices, including
external drives, other nases (local or remote) and/or one or more cloud
services.

for someone who is paranoid about losing photos (or anything, for that
matter), it's an ideal solution.

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#118214

In message <po1ig0$745$1@news.albasani.net> Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> wrote:
> On 9/20/18 6:51 PM, nospam wrote:
>> In article <po1efe$2cu$1@news.albasani.net>, Ken Springer
>> <wordworks@greeleynet.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>
>>> Will this unit run mojave?  It's got 8 GB of RAM.
>> 
>> <https://support.apple.com/macos/mojave>
>>    MacBook Pro models introduced in mid 2012 or later
>> 
>>> I'm not sure the owner has an Apple ID/account of any type.  Even if she
>>> does, I'm not sure she would even remember having one.
>> 
>> she probably does, but if not, create a new one. no big deal.
>> 
>>> She bought the computer used, and I do not know any of the details about
>>> that.
>> 
>> that shouldn't matter (but potentially could, just not likely).
>> 
>>> She's not only very computer illiterate, but she's paranoid of losing
>>> thousands of photos she's taken over the years.
>> 
>> then she would certainly have multiple backups of the photos (and
>> everything else), with at least one copy offsite, so that nothing would
>> be lost in case of disaster.
>> 
>> she does have backups, right?
>> if not, *that* is your first step.

> Yes, she does.  Somehow, I know not how, she got Time Machine running. 
> Her backup drive is just 1TB and should be bigger, but that will be an 
> issue to tackle later.  But, even after trying to explain Time Machine, 
> I can still tell on her face she really doesn't understand it.

> This got started when she called me and said she was getting a message 
> saying her System drive was almost full.

> I went over, and found her iPhoto library was 865GB!!!

> So, I had her buy an external drive, and moved the library to the 
> external drive, and set iPhoto to use it.  Deleted the library on the 
> System drive, and that problem was solved.

Not really. If the photo library is that large, then the time machine
backup is almost certainly *at best* a single backup of the most
recent state of the machine, since there's no room on a 1TB drive for
much else than the photo library.

> But, she's still paranoid about losing those photos,

AS she should be. She needs to have at least three backups, and one
needs to be an offsite backup.

> Now when she sees how long each new copy process takes to accomplish, I 
> think she'll give up that idea in search of some thing different.

There is no reason to sit and watch a backup. It should happen
automatically, in the background, constantly. Yes, the FIRST backup is
going to take a long time.

> What I'd like to be able to do is have Time Machine back up to 2 drives 
> at the same time.  This would be after I'm sure she understands Time 
> Machine and how to retrieve the earlier files.

This is built in to Time Machine. But an offsite backup needs to be part
of her solution. Backblaze is $5/month.

> Better, would be to get her to have multiple libraries, but that might 
> be a hopeless dream.

No one wants to deal with multiple libraries. it is a fucking pain in
the ass.

> She's clear that with the OS upgrade, she'll have to learn Photos.

DO not update until there are multiple copies (off the computer) of the
photos. Verify the backups, then disconnect them before proceeding.

> She takes some absolutely extraordinary photos of hummingbirds in 
> flight.  Just beyond gorgeous.

All the more reason to have multiple backups and absolutely to have an
offsite backup as well. How bad would it be if all the photos were
gone?

Right. Plan accordingly.

-- 
"He raised his hammer defiantly and opened his mouth to say, "Oh, yeah?"
but stopped, because just by his ear he heard a growl. It was quite low
and soft, but it had a complex little waveform which went straight down
into a little knobbly bit in his spinal column where it pressed an
ancient button marked Primal Terror."

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#118223

On 9/21/18 5:13 AM, Lewis wrote:
> In message <po1ig0$745$1@news.albasani.net> Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> wrote:
>> On 9/20/18 6:51 PM, nospam wrote:
>>> In article <po1efe$2cu$1@news.albasani.net>, Ken Springer
>>> <wordworks@greeleynet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Will this unit run mojave?  It's got 8 GB of RAM.
>>>
>>> <https://support.apple.com/macos/mojave>
>>>     MacBook Pro models introduced in mid 2012 or later
>>>
>>>> I'm not sure the owner has an Apple ID/account of any type.  Even if she
>>>> does, I'm not sure she would even remember having one.
>>>
>>> she probably does, but if not, create a new one. no big deal.
>>>
>>>> She bought the computer used, and I do not know any of the details about
>>>> that.
>>>
>>> that shouldn't matter (but potentially could, just not likely).
>>>
>>>> She's not only very computer illiterate, but she's paranoid of losing
>>>> thousands of photos she's taken over the years.
>>>
>>> then she would certainly have multiple backups of the photos (and
>>> everything else), with at least one copy offsite, so that nothing would
>>> be lost in case of disaster.
>>>
>>> she does have backups, right?
>>> if not, *that* is your first step.
> 
>> Yes, she does.  Somehow, I know not how, she got Time Machine running.
>> Her backup drive is just 1TB and should be bigger, but that will be an
>> issue to tackle later.  But, even after trying to explain Time Machine,
>> I can still tell on her face she really doesn't understand it.
> 
>> This got started when she called me and said she was getting a message
>> saying her System drive was almost full.
> 
>> I went over, and found her iPhoto library was 865GB!!!
> 
>> So, I had her buy an external drive, and moved the library to the
>> external drive, and set iPhoto to use it.  Deleted the library on the
>> System drive, and that problem was solved.
> 
> Not really. If the photo library is that large, then the time machine
> backup is almost certainly *at best* a single backup of the most
> recent state of the machine, since there's no room on a 1TB drive for
> much else than the photo library.

I know.  :-(  But, until the "light bulb" goes on, I can't do anything 
about it.

>> But, she's still paranoid about losing those photos,
> 
> AS she should be. She needs to have at least three backups, and one
> needs to be an offsite backup.

And now, as far as a home user is concerned, you are talking utopia.  In 
real life, you're lucky to get a user to make copies of their data to an 
external drive.

I've often wondered how many Windows users turn on File History, have 
File History set up to save to the same hard drive, and think they have 
backed up their computer.

>> Now when she sees how long each new copy process takes to accomplish, I
>> think she'll give up that idea in search of some thing different.
> 
> There is no reason to sit and watch a backup. It should happen
> automatically, in the background, constantly. Yes, the FIRST backup is
> going to take a long time.

No, there isn't.  But people are naturally scared things won't work when 
the do something they don't understand for the first time.

You have to realize, these are baby steps for her.

>> What I'd like to be able to do is have Time Machine back up to 2 drives
>> at the same time.  This would be after I'm sure she understands Time
>> Machine and how to retrieve the earlier files.
> 
> This is built in to Time Machine. But an offsite backup needs to be part
> of her solution. Backblaze is $5/month.

Online solutions are not always the long term best buy, and if your 
internet connection is subject to going down without warning, then it 
shouldn't be a solution you want to rely on.

>> Better, would be to get her to have multiple libraries, but that might
>> be a hopeless dream.
> 
> No one wants to deal with multiple libraries. it is a fucking pain in
> the ass.

That would be an individual solution, and in her case, could be a better 
one.

>> She's clear that with the OS upgrade, she'll have to learn Photos.
> 
> DO not update until there are multiple copies (off the computer) of the
> photos. Verify the backups, then disconnect them before proceeding.

I'll remember the disconnecting.

It's interesting, have you ever noticed how the design of hardware often 
makes physical disconnection of peripherals a PITA?

>> She takes some absolutely extraordinary photos of hummingbirds in
>> flight.  Just beyond gorgeous.
> 
> All the more reason to have multiple backups and absolutely to have an
> offsite backup as well. How bad would it be if all the photos were
> gone?

You know the old saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't 
make them drink."  Also, the horse has to be able to afford the water.  <G>

> Right. Plan accordingly.
> 


-- 
Ken
Mac OS X 10.11.6
Firefox 59.0.1  (64 bit)
Thunderbird 60.0.2
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
      and it's gone!"

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