Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #28761 > unrolled thread

Software Update ML Surprise

Back to article view | Back to comp.sys.mac.system

Contents

  Software Update ML Surprise MC <copespaz@mapca.inter.net> - 2012-08-01 13:50 -0400
    Re: Software Update ML Surprise John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> - 2012-08-03 12:25 -0400
      Re: Software Update ML Surprise MC <copespaz@mapca.inter.net> - 2012-08-03 12:56 -0400
      Re: Software Update ML Surprise Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2012-08-04 05:57 +0000
      Re: Software Update ML Surprise M-M <nospam.m-m@ny.more> - 2012-08-04 08:39 -0400
        Re: Software Update ML Surprise M-M <nospam.m-m@ny.more> - 2012-08-04 08:50 -0400
          Re: Software Update ML Surprise dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2012-08-05 13:00 +1200
    Re: Software Update ML Surprise MC <copespaz@mapca.inter.net> - 2012-08-03 14:12 -0400
      Re: Software Update ML Surprise Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2012-08-03 11:13 -0700
        Re: Software Update ML Surprise Tom Stiller <tom_stiller@yahoo.com> - 2012-08-03 15:10 -0400
          Re: Software Update ML Surprise *Hemidactylus* <ecphoric@hotmail.com> - 2012-08-03 19:51 -0400
      Re: Software Update ML Surprise Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2012-08-04 05:58 +0000
        Re: Software Update ML Surprise Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2012-08-03 23:24 -0700
          Re: Software Update ML Surprise dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2012-08-04 19:47 +1200
          Re: Software Update ML Surprise Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2012-08-04 12:21 +0000
        Re: Software Update ML Surprise John Young <jy@scallawags.net> - 2012-08-04 10:20 -0400
    Re: Software Update ML Surprise dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2012-08-04 17:03 +1200
      Re: Software Update ML Surprise Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2012-08-03 23:26 -0700
        Re: Software Update ML Surprise Larry Gusaas <larry.gusaas@gmail.com> - 2012-08-04 00:45 -0600
        Re: Software Update ML Surprise dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2012-08-04 19:47 +1200
      Re: Software Update ML Surprise Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> - 2012-08-04 19:58 +0200
      Re: Software Update ML Surprise dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2012-08-10 00:01 +1200
        Re: Software Update ML Surprise Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2012-08-10 01:21 +0000
          Re: Software Update ML Surprise dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2012-08-10 20:23 +1200
            Re: Software Update ML Surprise Matt Simpson <net-news69@jmatt.net> - 2012-08-10 10:16 -0400
              Re: Software Update ML Surprise Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2012-08-10 11:07 -0700
                Re: Software Update ML Surprise Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2012-08-10 23:58 -0400
                  Re: Software Update ML Surprise paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink - 2012-08-11 10:34 -0500
                    Re: Software Update ML Surprise Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2012-08-11 13:11 -0700
                      Re: Software Update ML Surprise this <delete@delete.nowhere.invalid> - 2012-08-12 09:50 -0500
                Re: Software Update ML Surprise Matt Simpson <net-news69@jmatt.net> - 2012-08-13 11:57 -0400
                  Re: Software Update ML Surprise Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2012-08-14 01:23 -0700
                  Re: Software Update ML Surprise raven <raven@thenest.gov> - 2012-08-14 05:12 -0400
                    Re: Software Update ML Surprise David Fritzinger <dfritzin@nospam.mac.com> - 2012-08-14 08:15 -0400
              Re: Software Update ML Surprise dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2012-08-11 09:34 +1200
                Re: Software Update ML Surprise John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> - 2012-08-10 23:10 -0400
                  Re: Software Update ML Surprise dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2012-08-11 21:45 +1200

Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]

#28956

On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 17:03:14 +1200, David Empson wrote:

> My only complaint about the new user interface: App Store does not show
> the size of the downloads before you click on the button to download the
> update. If I'm on a slow or expensive broadband connection, I want to
> know whether I can justify downloading an update now, or should wait
> until I'm at home.
> 
> The size is displayed after it starts downloading, and it can be paused,
> so it is manageable, just a minor irritation.

That is a valid criticism.  The super economy package my ISP was offering 
a few years ago had a low limit on downloads by today's standards, and 
above that charged per 50 MB download *started*.  It could cost you even 
if you decided to cancel that large download.

-- 
Paul Sture

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#29236

David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

> Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> 
> > Yeah, I noticed that last week as well. I do NOT like it. Has there been
> > any updates yet though?
> 
> Yes, I got updates to iPhoto and some other applications which I had
> originally installed from DVD.
> 
> Things previously delivered via Software Update appear in a list at the
> top of the "Updates" page in App Store, with a dividing line separating
> them from App Store updates. The general appearance of each item is
> similar to updates for App Store purchases, with the description and an
> indication of whether a restart is required, but it doesn't have the
> ability to go to a full window detail page like you can with an App
> update.
> 
> The underlying mechanism for handling OS-level software updates is the
> same as for Lion and earlier (e.g. the command line tools are the same,
> and the online update checks and downloads come from the same servers).
> It is just the user interface which shifted into App Store.
> 
> My only complaint about the new user interface: App Store does not show
> the size of the downloads before you click on the button to download the
> update. If I'm on a slow or expensive broadband connection, I want to
> know whether I can justify downloading an update now, or should wait
> until I'm at home.
> 
> The size is displayed after it starts downloading, and it can be paused,
> so it is manageable, just a minor irritation.

I was offered another software update today (HP printer driver updates),
and I'll have to retract that last paragraph.

You cannot pause a Software Update download in App Store. (Only App
downloads can be paused.)

The only way I could stop an unexpectedly big software update download
would be to drop the Internet connection.

This is worthy of a bug report. I need to know whether it will be too
expensive to download a software update for my current Internet
connection.

One other point of note: it appears that getting a Software Update via
App Store does not require being signed in to your Apple ID. I was
signed in, but tested it by signing out: the software update was still
listed and I was able to download and install it by clicking the UPDATE
button.

(To be absolutely certain of this point, it would be necessary to sign
out of App Store then restart the computer, or try doing the update
under a different account on the computer which is not signed into App
Store.)

Another useful point to note: the latest batch of printer drivers still
support Snow Leopard, so Apple hasn't completely stopped updating Snow
Leopard yet. It still remains to be seen whether they will issue further
Safari and security updates.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#29268

In message <1kokkjr.15p5jpy4l4699N%dempson@actrix.gen.nz> 
  David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> One other point of note: it appears that getting a Software Update via
> App Store does not require being signed in to your Apple ID. I was
> signed in, but tested it by signing out: the software update was still
> listed and I was able to download and install it by clicking the UPDATE
> button.

Of course you don't have to be signed in. You do not even have to *have*
an apple ID to run software update.

-- 
in the long run there's still time to change the road you're on

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#29270

Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> In message <1kokkjr.15p5jpy4l4699N%dempson@actrix.gen.nz> 
>   David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> > One other point of note: it appears that getting a Software Update via
> > App Store does not require being signed in to your Apple ID. I was
> > signed in, but tested it by signing out: the software update was still
> > listed and I was able to download and install it by clicking the UPDATE
> > button.
> 
> Of course you don't have to be signed in. You do not even have to *have*
> an apple ID to run software update.

I didn't word the above very well, as I was missing the background
explanation.

I have seen some people asking (but I forget where) whether it was
necessary to have an Apple ID (and be signed in to it) for getting
software updates in Mountain Lion, because the user interface for
Software Update shifted into App Store, and App Store requires an Apple
ID to get app updates.

Apple's page on the subject doesn't distinguish between software update
and app updates, and suggests you might need an Apple ID and password.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1338

I was almost certain that getting software updates via App Store did not
require an Apple ID, because the underlying software update mechanism
used in Mountain Lion is mostly the same as earlier systems (apart from
improved security), and the command line tool doesn't require an Apple
ID. The only change is where the user interface is presented and what it
looks like.

For previous updates, I was already signed in to my Apple ID in App
Store when I installed them, so I couldn't tell whether App Store itself
expected an Apple ID (even if the Software Update engine did not).

With the latest batch of updates I deliberately signed out first to
prove that I could still get software updates using App Store, without
an Apple ID.

In all cases, I had the automatic download and install options disabled
in System Preferences > Software Update.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#29276

Does anybody know if OS X updates will still be available for download 
in .dmg format from support.apple.com/downloads?

My home internet connection is cellular broadband (no cable or DSL in 
these boondocks) with a 5 GB monthly cap.  My home computer is a 27" 
iMac which is not convenient to carry to places with free wifi.

I usually download software updates at work, and take them home on a 
thumb drive.  Is Apple going to make it more difficult for me to do that?

I really don't like the way Apple is moving in a direction that assumes 
all their users have access to a fast unlimited network.  I applaud 
their efforts to simplify the process for users who do have such access, 
but it would be nice to provide an alternative for the rest of us that 
the phone/cable companies don't consider profitable.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#29289

In article 
<net-news69-01BF93.10164410082012@news.eternal-september.org>,
 Matt Simpson <net-news69@jmatt.net> wrote:

> Does anybody know if OS X updates will still be available for download 
> in .dmg format from support.apple.com/downloads?
> 
> My home internet connection is cellular broadband (no cable or DSL in 
> these boondocks) with a 5 GB monthly cap.  My home computer is a 27" 
> iMac which is not convenient to carry to places with free wifi.
> 
> I usually download software updates at work, and take them home on a 
> thumb drive.  Is Apple going to make it more difficult for me to do that?
> 
> I really don't like the way Apple is moving in a direction that assumes 
> all their users have access to a fast unlimited network.  I applaud 
> their efforts to simplify the process for users who do have such access, 
> but it would be nice to provide an alternative for the rest of us that 
> the phone/cable companies don't consider profitable.

Only Apple knows that.  But you're clearly an 'outlier' from their 
Internet-based update strategy.  If they decide that customers who don't 
have unlimited Broadband and non-portable machines aren't worth 
supporting, you could possibly go to your nearest Apple Store Genius Bar 
and ask for an update there.

I had the same problem with an App Store application (SoundConverter) 
which I couldn't get working on my MacPro.  The developer wanted me to 
'bring it up to SF' so he could 'take a look at it'.  Obviously 
instrumenting it to do debug logging wasn't something he was willing to 
do.  So he gave me a refund on the app.

If Apple is assuming that everyone who buys their systems will update 
them from their unlimited Broadband connection, most of the rest of the 
world won't be using the new release of Mac OS.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#29309

On 08-10-2012 14:07, Michael Vilain wrote:
> If Apple is assuming that everyone who buys their systems will update
> them from their unlimited Broadband connection, most of the rest of the
> world won't be using the new release of Mac OS.

On the other hand, if dumbing down gets them a million more customers,
they won't care if it sends you and me to Linux.

-- 
Wes Groleau

    “Thinking I'm dumb gives people something to
     feel smug about.  Why should I disillusion them?”
                             — Charles Wallace
                             (in _A_Wrinkle_In_Time_)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#29325

Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> wrote:

> On 08-10-2012 14:07, Michael Vilain wrote:
> > If Apple is assuming that everyone who buys their systems will update
> > them from their unlimited Broadband connection, most of the rest of the
> > world won't be using the new release of Mac OS.
> 
> On the other hand, if dumbing down gets them a million more customers,
> they won't care if it sends you and me to Linux.

I just bought a new MacBook with Lion, going from Snow Leopard, and I am
not a happy camper, and dislike most of the "improved" applications
associated applications.  Intend to move several back from my old
MacBook this weekend including in particular address book.  No way am I
going to get sucked into this "cloud" computing.  Will pass on my free
ML "upgrade."  Would move back to SL if this computer would run it.
Lost quite a few of my facorite apps that were writtten for PPC.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#29333

In article <1konriw.fb8r4f1kerp26N%paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink>,
 paulfuchs@porkain'tkosher.oink wrote:

> Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> wrote:
> 
> > On 08-10-2012 14:07, Michael Vilain wrote:
> > > If Apple is assuming that everyone who buys their systems will update
> > > them from their unlimited Broadband connection, most of the rest of the
> > > world won't be using the new release of Mac OS.
> > 
> > On the other hand, if dumbing down gets them a million more customers,
> > they won't care if it sends you and me to Linux.
> 
> I just bought a new MacBook with Lion, going from Snow Leopard, and I am
> not a happy camper, and dislike most of the "improved" applications
> associated applications.  Intend to move several back from my old
> MacBook this weekend including in particular address book.  No way am I
> going to get sucked into this "cloud" computing.  Will pass on my free
> ML "upgrade."  Would move back to SL if this computer would run it.
> Lost quite a few of my facorite apps that were writtten for PPC.

You might looking into loading Ubuntu on your system.  You'll probably 
be happier with that.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#29349

In article <vilain-90981B.13114211082012@news.individual.net>,
 Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:

> You might looking into loading Ubuntu on your system.  You'll probably 
> be happier with that.

I haven't tried Ubuntu, but Kubuntu is mostly good. The cross-platform
programs like firefox and calibre are mostly the same but updates 
come later by a few days or the the next Kubuntu upgrade.

The Kubutu file viewer changes file dates everytime a file is viewed
and I don't see a way to associate comments to a file like Mac 
OS X can. Is there a date preserving file viewer?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#29369

In article <vilain-AD3E13.11071210082012@news.individual.net>,
 Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:

> Only Apple knows that.  But you're clearly an 'outlier' from their 
> Internet-based update strategy.  If they decide that customers who don't 
> have unlimited Broadband and non-portable machines aren't worth 
> supporting, you could possibly go to your nearest Apple Store Genius Bar 
> and ask for an update there.

But will they be able to give me an update in a format I can carry home 
in my pocket, or do I have to carry my iMac into the store?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#29397

In article 
<net-news69-C1AB80.11570413082012@news.eternal-september.org>,
 Matt Simpson <net-news69@jmatt.net> wrote:

> In article <vilain-AD3E13.11071210082012@news.individual.net>,
>  Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
> 
> > Only Apple knows that.  But you're clearly an 'outlier' from their 
> > Internet-based update strategy.  If they decide that customers who don't 
> > have unlimited Broadband and non-portable machines aren't worth 
> > supporting, you could possibly go to your nearest Apple Store Genius Bar 
> > and ask for an update there.
> 
> But will they be able to give me an update in a format I can carry home 
> in my pocket, or do I have to carry my iMac into the store?

Call them and ask.  My guess, bring in your system.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#29398

On 2012-08-13 11:57:04 -0400, Matt Simpson <net-news69@jmatt.net> said:

> In article <vilain-AD3E13.11071210082012@news.individual.net>,
>  Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
> 
>> Only Apple knows that.  But you're clearly an 'outlier' from their
>> Internet-based update strategy.  If they decide that customers who don't
>> have unlimited Broadband and non-portable machines aren't worth
>> supporting, you could possibly go to your nearest Apple Store Genius Bar
>> and ask for an update there.
> 
> But will they be able to give me an update in a format I can carry home
> in my pocket, or do I have to carry my iMac into the store?

call em and ask em..........
-- 
S&W...An original point and click device...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#29406

In article <2012081405125116807-raven@thenestgov>,
 raven <raven@thenest.gov> wrote:

> On 2012-08-13 11:57:04 -0400, Matt Simpson <net-news69@jmatt.net> said:
> 
> > In article <vilain-AD3E13.11071210082012@news.individual.net>,
> >  Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
> > 
> >> Only Apple knows that.  But you're clearly an 'outlier' from their
> >> Internet-based update strategy.  If they decide that customers who don't
> >> have unlimited Broadband and non-portable machines aren't worth
> >> supporting, you could possibly go to your nearest Apple Store Genius Bar
> >> and ask for an update there.
> > 
> > But will they be able to give me an update in a format I can carry home
> > in my pocket, or do I have to carry my iMac into the store?
> 
> call em and ask em..........

I would guess that the easiest thing to do would be to bring in a USB 
thumb drive, and see if they can load it on that.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#29299

Matt Simpson <net-news69@jmatt.net> wrote:

> Does anybody know if OS X updates will still be available for download
> in .dmg format from support.apple.com/downloads?

Since the introduction of Mountain Lion, there have been updates to
iPhoto, iMovie, the iWork suite, Aperture, Apple Remote Desktop and
several printer drivers. All of these have been available via
support.apple.com/downloads.

There is already one major update for Lion that is not available there:
Safari 6. The only way I could get that was via Software Update (a 40 MB
download). Safari 6 came with Mountain Lion so no manual download was
necessary in that case.

I think the Safari downloads are only part way through being
restructured, because at the same time as releasing Safari 6, Apple
pulled the www.apple.com/safari/download page and along with it Safari
5.1.x for Snow Leopard, Lion and Windows. They subsequently put up a
separate download page for Safari 5.1.7 for Windows, but it looks like
it has disappeared from the list of downloads again. Still no sign of
Safari 5.1.7 for Snow Leopard (which was previously available).

I've also found that they pulled Safari 5.1.7 from the Software Update
servers, so someone installing Snow Leopard or updating to 10.6.8 now is
stuck with Safari 5.0.5 (which came in the 10.6.8 update), unless they
happen to have kept a copy of the manually downloaded installer for
5.1.7.

I suspect the Safari situation is an aberration that will be resolved at
some point, and I expect that support.apple.com/downloads will offer
manual downloads of security updates and minor version updates for
Mountain Lion.
 
> My home internet connection is cellular broadband (no cable or DSL in
> these boondocks) with a 5 GB monthly cap.  My home computer is a 27" 
> iMac which is not convenient to carry to places with free wifi.
> 
> I usually download software updates at work, and take them home on a 
> thumb drive.  Is Apple going to make it more difficult for me to do that?
> 
> I really don't like the way Apple is moving in a direction that assumes
> all their users have access to a fast unlimited network.  I applaud 
> their efforts to simplify the process for users who do have such access,
> but it would be nice to provide an alternative for the rest of us that
> the phone/cable companies don't consider profitable.

This problem affects many people in New Zealand, because most broadband
connections here are capped. The caps for medium priced plans tend to be
increasing (40 GB per month is now reasonably common) but low end plans
are still in the order of 5 GB per month. If someone has to update
several Macs, using software update for all of them could result in
running into your monthly limit and having to pay a lot or suffer from a
speed limit which drops your broadband back to roughly dial-up speeds
for the rest of the month. Some ISPs also offer a daily cap arrangement,
with the cap typically being smaller than a minor version update of Mac
OS X.

I like to get and keep the manual downloads because I want to install
them on several computers, and to have the ability to reinstall them
without having to download them again (saving time for the download, and
potentially money if I've reached my cap).

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#29306

David Empson wrote:
"I've also found that they pulled Safari 5.1.7 from the 
Software Update servers, so someone installing Snow Leopard 
or updating to 10.6.8 now is stuck with Safari 5.0.5 (which 
came in the 10.6.8 update), unless they happen to have kept 
a copy of the manually downloaded installer for 5.1.7."

How about here:
http://support.apple.com/downloads/#internet

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#29313

John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> wrote:

> David Empson wrote:
> "I've also found that they pulled Safari 5.1.7 from the 
> Software Update servers, so someone installing Snow Leopard 
> or updating to 10.6.8 now is stuck with Safari 5.0.5 (which 
> came in the 10.6.8 update), unless they happen to have kept 
> a copy of the manually downloaded installer for 5.1.7."
> 
> How about here:
> http://support.apple.com/downloads/#internet

Ah, thanks. Safari 5.1.7 for Windows was briefly visible in the full
list of downloads as a recent release (about the same date as Mountain
Lion) and I couldn't see it there any more. I now see they just adjusted
its date back to when it was originally released. Safari 5.1.7 for Snow
Leopard may have reappeared at the same time.

Safari 5.1.7 for Snow Leopard was not coming up in Software Update when
I did a Snow Leopard upgrade for someone on 4th August, so I installed
it manually from my previously downloaded copy of the installer. I'd
have to do another install to see whether that issue has also been
fixed.

That still doesn't resolve the question of why there is no manual
installer of Safari 6.0 for Lion.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]

Back to top | Article view | comp.sys.mac.system

csiph-web