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Way Back When

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  Way Back When Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2018-11-02 11:21 -0400
    Re: Way Back When Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2018-11-02 09:06 -0700
      Re: Way Back When "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2018-11-03 21:00 +0000
        Re: Way Back When snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2018-11-03 21:17 +0000
          Re: Way Back When Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2018-11-03 15:29 -0700
            Re: Way Back When snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2018-11-03 22:55 +0000
              Re: Way Back When Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2018-11-03 18:15 -0700
                Re: Way Back When snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2018-11-04 08:47 +0000
                  Re: Way Back When J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-04 12:55 -0500
                    [OT] Re: Way Back When snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2018-11-05 08:12 +0000
                      Re: [OT] Re: Way Back When Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2018-11-05 01:45 -0800
                        Re: [OT] Re: Way Back When snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2018-11-05 13:42 +0000
                          Re: [OT] Re: Way Back When Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2018-11-05 07:31 -0800
                            Re: [OT] Re: Way Back When snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2018-11-05 17:47 +0000
                              Re: [OT] Re: Way Back When Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2018-11-05 12:14 -0800
                                Re: [OT] Re: Way Back When snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2018-11-05 20:46 +0000
    Re: Way Back When Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-03 09:28 +1300
      Re: Way Back When Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2018-11-02 18:35 -0400
        Re: Way Back When "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2018-11-03 21:06 +0000
          Re: Way Back When nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-11-03 17:41 -0400
            Re: Way Back When "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2018-11-05 03:13 +0000
              Re: Way Back When Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-05 18:13 +1300
                Re: Way Back When "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2018-11-05 19:07 +0000
                  Re: Way Back When Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-06 08:42 +1300
                    Re: Way Back When Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2018-11-05 11:47 -0800
                      Re: Way Back When Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-06 09:18 +1300
                        Re: Way Back When Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2018-11-05 12:37 -0800
                          Re: Way Back When Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-06 15:15 +1300
                            Re: Way Back When Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2018-11-05 21:12 -0800
                              Re: Way Back When Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-06 18:13 +1300
                                Re: Way Back When Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2018-11-05 21:26 -0800
                          Re: Way Back When John <nospam@nospam.com> - 2018-11-05 18:47 -0800
                            Re: Way Back When Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-06 10:16 +0000
                              Re: Way Back When J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-06 08:12 -0500
                        Re: Way Back When nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-11-05 15:44 -0400
                        Re: Way Back When "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2018-11-06 14:57 +0000
                          [OT] Re: Way Back When snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2018-11-06 15:10 +0000
                            Re: [OT] Re: Way Back When J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-07 16:27 -0500
                              Re: [OT] Re: Way Back When Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-08 14:15 +1300
                                Re: [OT] Re: Way Back When Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2018-11-07 18:16 -0800
                                Re: [OT] Re: Way Back When J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-07 22:52 -0500
                                  Re: [OT] Re: Way Back When Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2018-11-07 21:22 -0800
                                    Re: [OT] Re: Way Back When Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-08 18:28 +1300
                                      Re: [OT] Re: Way Back When nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-11-08 00:33 -0400
                                    Re: [OT] Re: Way Back When J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-08 02:48 -0500
                                  Re: [OT] Re: Way Back When Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-08 18:26 +1300
                          Re: Way Back When Percival John Hackworth <pjh@nanoworks.com> - 2018-11-07 08:41 -0800
                            Re: Way Back When "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2018-11-07 18:38 +0000
                              Re: Way Back When Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2018-11-07 15:41 -0800
                            Re: Way Back When Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-08 10:26 +1300
                              Re: Way Back When snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2018-11-07 22:10 +0000
                            Re: Way Back When Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-08 07:06 +0000
                            Re: Way Back When Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2018-11-09 19:13 -0500
                    Re: Way Back When nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-11-05 14:55 -0400
                  Re: Way Back When Leonard Blaisdell <leoblaisdell@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-11-05 15:48 -0800
                    Re: Way Back When Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-06 10:14 +0000
                      Re: Way Back When J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-06 08:22 -0500
                      Re: Way Back When Percival John Hackworth <pjh@nanoworks.com> - 2018-11-06 07:02 -0800
                        Re: Way Back When Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2018-11-06 13:54 -0500
                        Re: Way Back When Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-07 09:26 +0000
                          Re: Way Back When Elden <usenet@moondog.org> - 2018-11-07 05:34 -0800
                    Re: Way Back When "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2018-11-06 15:41 +0000
          Re: Way Back When Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-04 14:28 +1300
      Re: Way Back When J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-04 14:01 -0500
        Re: Way Back When Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2018-11-04 17:00 -0500
          Re: Way Back When J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-05 08:44 -0500
    Re: Way Back When Supermarine Spitfire <spitfire@spitfireflyinghigh.com> - 2018-11-02 20:32 +0000
    Re: Way Back When Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2018-11-04 16:55 -0500
      Re: Way Back When J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-05 09:18 -0500
        Re: Way Back When Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2018-11-05 07:33 -0800
          Re: Way Back When "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2018-11-05 19:41 +0000
      Re: Way Back When Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2018-11-06 15:44 -0500

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#119105 — Way Back When

Remember when software had printed manuals? How about a 2,000 page
manual? <https://www.flickr.com/photos/primeval/44956561934>

-- 
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

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#119107

In article <021120181121292358%star@sky.net>, Davoud <star@sky.net> wrote:

> Remember when software had printed manuals? How about a 2,000 page
> manual? <https://www.flickr.com/photos/primeval/44956561934>

I remember when computers required chillers bigger than the computers.

-- 
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.    @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'                                    /|\
An almond doesn't lactate.                        This post         / \
Yet another supercilious snowflake for justice.   insults Islam.  Mohammed

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#119122

On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 16:06:31 UTC, Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> 
wrote:

> In article <021120181121292358%star@sky.net>, Davoud <star@sky.net> wrote:
> 
> > Remember when software had printed manuals? How about a 2,000 page
> > manual? <https://www.flickr.com/photos/primeval/44956561934>
> 
> I remember when computers required chillers bigger than the computers.
 
And sat on raised floors, with lots of cables underneath.

-- 
John Varela

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#119124

John Varela <newlamps@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 16:06:31 UTC, Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> > In article <021120181121292358%star@sky.net>, Davoud <star@sky.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > Remember when software had printed manuals? How about a 2,000 page
> > > manual? <https://www.flickr.com/photos/primeval/44956561934>
> > 
> > I remember when computers required chillers bigger than the computers.
>  
> And sat on raised floors, with lots of cables underneath.

Ours had big motor-generator sets in the plant room to convert 
our local 230v 50Hz mains electricity to 110v 60Hz.  We had 
false floors too, and the whole 'puter room was air-contioned. 
The best bit though was we wore white lab-coats and had -real- 
Tektronix oscilloscopes on trollies.  ~1970.

-- 
^Ï^     My pet rock Gordon just is.

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#119126

In article <1nxpk6i.2bks7wnts0fN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>,
 snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:

> John Varela <newlamps@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 16:06:31 UTC, Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > In article <021120181121292358%star@sky.net>, Davoud <star@sky.net> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Remember when software had printed manuals? How about a 2,000 page
> > > > manual? <https://www.flickr.com/photos/primeval/44956561934>
> > > 
> > > I remember when computers required chillers bigger than the computers.
> >  
> > And sat on raised floors, with lots of cables underneath.
> 
> Ours had big motor-generator sets in the plant room to convert 
> our local 230v 50Hz mains electricity to 110v 60Hz.  We had 
> false floors too, and the whole 'puter room was air-contioned. 
> The best bit though was we wore white lab-coats and had -real- 
> Tektronix oscilloscopes on trollies.  ~1970.

http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102627699

Other than X.DIS, I prefer my MacBook.

-- 
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.    @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'                                    /|\
An almond doesn't lactate.                        This post         / \
Yet another supercilious snowflake for justice.   insults Islam.  Mohammed

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#119127

Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article <1nxpk6i.2bks7wnts0fN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>,
>  snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:
> 
> > John Varela <newlamps@verizon.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 16:06:31 UTC, Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:

[...]

> > > > I remember when computers required chillers bigger than the computers.
> > >  
> > > And sat on raised floors, with lots of cables underneath.
> > 
> > Ours had big motor-generator sets in the plant room to convert 
> > our local 230v 50Hz mains electricity to 110v 60Hz.  We had 
> > false floors too, and the whole 'puter room was air-contioned. 
> > The best bit though was we wore white lab-coats and had -real- 
> > Tektronix oscilloscopes on trollies.  ~1970.
> 
> http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102627699
> 
> Other than X.DIS, I prefer my MacBook.

<http://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/mainframe-computers/7/169/682>

I loved my 315s.

-- 
^Ï^     My pet rock Gordon just is.

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#119128

In article <1nxporg.1nc5fh8194xy3kN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>,
 snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:

> Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > In article <1nxpk6i.2bks7wnts0fN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>,
> >  snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:
> > 
> > > John Varela <newlamps@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 16:06:31 UTC, Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > > > > I remember when computers required chillers bigger than the computers.
> > > >  
> > > > And sat on raised floors, with lots of cables underneath.
> > > 
> > > Ours had big motor-generator sets in the plant room to convert 
> > > our local 230v 50Hz mains electricity to 110v 60Hz.  We had 
> > > false floors too, and the whole 'puter room was air-contioned. 
> > > The best bit though was we wore white lab-coats and had -real- 
> > > Tektronix oscilloscopes on trollies.  ~1970.
> > 
> > http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102627699
> > 
> > Other than X.DIS, I prefer my MacBook.
> 
> <http://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/mainframe-computers/7/169/682>
> 
> I loved my 315s.

I do not miss the O26s.

-- 
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.    @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'                                    /|\
An almond doesn't lactate.                        This post         / \
Yet another supercilious snowflake for justice.   insults Islam.  Mohammed

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#119133

Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote:

[...]

> > > > > > I remember when computers required chillers 
> > > > > > bigger than the computers.
> > > > >  
> > > > > And sat on raised floors, with lots of cables underneath.
> > > > 
> > > > Ours had big motor-generator sets in the plant room to convert 
> > > > our local 230v 50Hz mains electricity to 110v 60Hz.  We had 
> > > > false floors too, and the whole 'puter room was air-contioned. 
> > > > The best bit though was we wore white lab-coats and had -real- 
> > > > Tektronix oscilloscopes on trollies.  ~1970.
> > > 
> > > http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102627699
> > > 
> > > Other than X.DIS, I prefer my MacBook.
> > 
> ><http://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/mainframe-computers/7/169/682>
> > 
> > I loved my 315s.
> 
> I do not miss the O26s.

You had to be a hardware person to really appreciate them.
Software was a nuisance that concerned only programmers 
and they were nuisances by definition. 

-- 
^Ï^     My pet rock Gordon just is.

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#119136

On 11/4/18 3:47 AM, Sn!pe wrote:
> Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>>>>>>> I remember when computers required chillers
>>>>>>> bigger than the computers.
>>>>>>   
>>>>>> And sat on raised floors, with lots of cables underneath.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ours had big motor-generator sets in the plant room to convert
>>>>> our local 230v 50Hz mains electricity to 110v 60Hz.  We had
>>>>> false floors too, and the whole 'puter room was air-contioned.
>>>>> The best bit though was we wore white lab-coats and had -real-
>>>>> Tektronix oscilloscopes on trollies.  ~1970.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102627699
>>>>
>>>> Other than X.DIS, I prefer my MacBook.
>>>
>>> <http://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/mainframe-computers/7/169/682>
>>>
>>> I loved my 315s.
>>
>> I do not miss the O26s.
> 
> You had to be a hardware person to really appreciate them.
> Software was a nuisance that concerned only programmers
> and they were nuisances by definition.
> 
You said it! They put me on one of these in 1969:
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/wrwetzel/2195723152/in/album-72157603719879992/>

IIRC, my console was bigger, and most of the computer was in cabinets 
along the wall. I hated the computer in Star Trek, and I hated this one 
worse. I asked a fellow how it worked. He used a lot of big words, and I 
could see he was talking through his hat. I asked another fellow, and he 
explained it in three minutes. He told me about the registers and 
commands. He told me it used a numbering system based on powers of ten. 
I was in luck. I'd studied that system in first grade.

The machine was more trouble than it was worth. You'd start by loading 
the FORTRAN compiler, on two stacks of Hollerith cards. Soon I hated the 
programmers more than I hated the computer. Now that I knew how it 
worked, I decided to fix it. I printed the compiler. It came out as a 
column of digits 15" wide and 192" long. From it, I found where the 
trouble spots resided in memory. I made changes and had the computer 
print a new stack of Hollerith cards. With the improved compiler, I 
could put my feet up and spend the day reading the New York Times. It 
cost 10¢. I think the daily issue had 100 pages.

In 1974, they gave me two of these minis:
https://gizmodo.com/5393663/the-computer-that-made-the-internet

Thanks to integrated circuits, each was hardly bigger than a 
refrigerator. Right off the bat, I detected a bug. For four days, I 
hunted it nearly around the clock. Too illiterate to know when a 
computer worked and when it didn't, the users thought I was tilting at 
windmills like Don Quixote. I finally caught it in a trap. It was a nand 
gate with an ambiguous output level.

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#119145 — [OT] Re: Way Back When

J Burns <burns@nospam.com> wrote:

> In 1974, they gave me two of these minis:
><https://gizmodo.com/5393663/the-computer-that-made-the-internet>
> 
> Thanks to integrated circuits, each was hardly bigger than a 
> refrigerator. Right off the bat, I detected a bug. For four days, I 
> hunted it nearly around the clock. Too illiterate to know when a 
> computer worked and when it didn't, the users thought I was tilting at
> windmills like Don Quixote. I finally caught it in a trap. It was a nand
> gate with an ambiguous output level.

Pesky integrated circuits, give me 
good old trusty diode resistor logic.

-- 
^Ï^     My pet rock Gordon just is.

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#119146 — Re: [OT] Re: Way Back When

In article <1nxs9cj.1wsnfhn1kn7rkjN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>,
 snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:

> J Burns <burns@nospam.com> wrote:
> 
> > In 1974, they gave me two of these minis:
> ><https://gizmodo.com/5393663/the-computer-that-made-the-internet>
> > 
> > Thanks to integrated circuits, each was hardly bigger than a 
> > refrigerator. Right off the bat, I detected a bug. For four days, I 
> > hunted it nearly around the clock. Too illiterate to know when a 
> > computer worked and when it didn't, the users thought I was tilting at
> > windmills like Don Quixote. I finally caught it in a trap. It was a nand
> > gate with an ambiguous output level.
> 
> Pesky integrated circuits, give me 
> good old trusty diode resistor logic.

And we all know what the incantation 'BBN' does.

ObSysMac: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto
The Macintosh before it was the Macintosh.

-- 
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.    @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'                                    /|\
An almond doesn't lactate.                        This post         / \
Yet another supercilious snowflake for justice.   insults Islam.  Mohammed

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#119148 — Re: [OT] Re: Way Back When

Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > Pesky integrated circuits, give me 
> > good old trusty diode resistor logic.
> 
> And we all know what the incantation 'BBN' does.
 
Now I know that I'm not one of the "In Crowd", darn it.

> ObSysMac: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto
> The Macintosh before it was the Macintosh.

I remember them; I saw one at an exhibition 
when the World was young and so was I.

-- 
^Ï^     My pet rock Gordon just is.

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#119151 — Re: [OT] Re: Way Back When

In article <1nxsomm.1xci8e1ggyrowN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>,
 snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:

> Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > > Pesky integrated circuits, give me 
> > > good old trusty diode resistor logic.
> > 
> > And we all know what the incantation 'BBN' does.
>  
> Now I know that I'm not one of the "In Crowd", darn it.

Bolt, Beranek and Newman. A software company contracted by ARPA, they wrote the 
code for the ARPANet. bbn shows up on early node names.

We were tasked to try to log in on a new high speed terminal, 1800 baud I think, 
so it was flying next to the IBM terminals. The problem was the network couldn't 
autorecognise anythning that fast. So we connected at 300 baud, got the 
connection information, changed the speed, and then used another connection to 
set the correct recognised speed. It ran out of paper real fast.

> > ObSysMac: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto
> > The Macintosh before it was the Macintosh.
> 
> I remember them; I saw one at an exhibition 
> when the World was young and so was I.

Macintosh: Windows before it was Windows.

-- 
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.    @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'                                    /|\
An almond doesn't lactate.                        This post         / \
Yet another supercilious snowflake for justice.   insults Islam.  Mohammed

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#119153 — Re: [OT] Re: Way Back When

Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
> We were tasked to try to log in on a new high speed terminal, 1800 baud I
> think, so it was flying next to the IBM terminals. The problem was the
> network couldn't autorecognise anythning that fast. So we connected at 300
> baud, got the connection information, changed the speed, and then used
> another connection to set the correct recognised speed. It ran out of
> paper real fast.

My machines predated commercial networking; cutting edge for us 
was reading mag tapes written elsewhere and sneakernetted to us.  
My boss did some experiments carrying a spool all around London 
on the Underground and by trolleybus, to see if they'd be corrupted 
by stray magnetic fields from the electric motors, etc.

I remember connecting at 300 Baud at home, though, in the early '80s. 
ISTR it was using a Hayes Smartmodem; later on I had several varieties 
of US Robotics modems, which were a good deal faster.  We were amazed
when we eventually got "Broadband"... 

Sometimes I think the Internet might be better if we were all connecting
via acoustic couplers.

-- 
^Ï^     My pet rock Gordon just is.

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#119159 — Re: [OT] Re: Way Back When

In article <1nxszgy.6w3edb1v6600rN%snipeco.2@gmail.com>,
 snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:

> Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote:
>  
> > We were tasked to try to log in on a new high speed terminal, 1800 baud I
> > think, so it was flying next to the IBM terminals. The problem was the
> > network couldn't autorecognise anythning that fast. So we connected at 300
> > baud, got the connection information, changed the speed, and then used
> > another connection to set the correct recognised speed. It ran out of
> > paper real fast.
> 
> My machines predated commercial networking; cutting edge for us 

ARPA predated commercial networks. It connected NATO governments and 
universities getting DoD grants.

> I remember connecting at 300 Baud at home, though, in the early '80s. 

IBM terminals were 133 to 134 baud and locked the keyboard if the computer 
didn't want to talk to you.

-- 
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.    @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'                                    /|\
An almond doesn't lactate.                        This post         / \
Yet another supercilious snowflake for justice.   insults Islam.  Mohammed

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#119163 — Re: [OT] Re: Way Back When

Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > My machines predated commercial networking; 
> 
> ARPA predated commercial networks. It connected NATO 
> governments and universities getting DoD grants.

Indeed; but networking hadn't reached commercial computing 
in London in ~1970, at least, not in the machines I was fixing.

-- 
^Ï^     My pet rock Gordon just is.

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#119111

On 2018-11-02 15:21:29 +0000, Davoud said:
> 
> Remember when software had printed manuals? How about a 2,000 page
> manual? <https://www.flickr.com/photos/primeval/44956561934>

My programmable HP calculator (that I still use occasionally) came with 
two thick manuals.  :-)

It's not just software. You used to get proper manuals with hardware 
too: computers, TVs, set-top boxes, etc. These days you're lucky if you 
even get a single page "Set-up Guide".  :-(

Even when you rarely do get manuals these days, they are often so 
rushed that they contain errors. The guide book that came with my 
mother's VW car said to look in the driver's door fram for the 
recommended tyre pressures (as is usual in most cars) ... nothing 
there. Eventually, after asking the dealer, we found the tyre pressures 
are ridiculously listed inside the petrol flap!!

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#119113

On 11/2/18 4:28 PM, Your Name wrote:
> On 2018-11-02 15:21:29 +0000, Davoud said:
>>
>> Remember when software had printed manuals? How about a 2,000 page
>> manual? <https://www.flickr.com/photos/primeval/44956561934>
> 
> My programmable HP calculator (that I still use occasionally) came with 
> two thick manuals.  :-)
> 
> It's not just software. You used to get proper manuals with hardware 
> too: computers, TVs, set-top boxes, etc. These days you're lucky if you 
> even get a single page "Set-up Guide".  :-(
> 
> Even when you rarely do get manuals these days, they are often so rushed 
> that they contain errors. The guide book that came with my mother's VW 
> car said to look in the driver's door fram for the recommended tyre 
> pressures (as is usual in most cars) ... nothing there. Eventually, 
> after asking the dealer, we found the tyre pressures are ridiculously 
> listed inside the petrol flap!!
> 
Bought a new car recently? Mine came with 780 semi-mouse print pages 
spread among 5 volumes.

Good effin' luck trying to find how to turn dozens of electronic 
features on, off or calibrate them; when to change the oil; how to 
change the clock tor daylight saving; program the radio or link up your 
phone, etc., etc....

-- 
Ever notice the shortage of "armed law-abiding citizen” victim tragedy 
stories in the news?

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#119123

On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 22:35:45 UTC, Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> 
wrote:

> On 11/2/18 4:28 PM, Your Name wrote:
> > On 2018-11-02 15:21:29 +0000, Davoud said:
> >>
> >> Remember when software had printed manuals? How about a 2,000 page
> >> manual? <https://www.flickr.com/photos/primeval/44956561934>
> > 
> > My programmable HP calculator (that I still use occasionally) came with 
> > two thick manuals.  :-)
> > 
> > It's not just software. You used to get proper manuals with hardware 
> > too: computers, TVs, set-top boxes, etc. These days you're lucky if you 
> > even get a single page "Set-up Guide".  :-(
> > 
> > Even when you rarely do get manuals these days, they are often so rushed 
> > that they contain errors. The guide book that came with my mother's VW 
> > car said to look in the driver's door fram for the recommended tyre 
> > pressures (as is usual in most cars) ... nothing there. Eventually, 
> > after asking the dealer, we found the tyre pressures are ridiculously 
> > listed inside the petrol flap!!
> > 
> Bought a new car recently? Mine came with 780 semi-mouse print pages 
> spread among 5 volumes.
> 
> Good effin' luck trying to find how to turn dozens of electronic 
> features on, off or calibrate them; when to change the oil; how to 
> change the clock tor daylight saving; program the radio or link up your 
> phone, etc., etc....
 
Subaru presents one manual for each model.  It covers every trim 
line and optional feature.  For something as simple as resetting the
clock there will be instructions for several different versions, 
each qualified "(if equipped)".  We go off of Daylight Savings Time 
tomorrow morning, and I am going to have to look it up yet again.

-- 
John Varela

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#119125

In article <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-6Fd5ZtZ5ez1z@localhost>, John Varela
<newlamps@verizon.net> wrote:

> > Bought a new car recently? Mine came with 780 semi-mouse print pages 
> > spread among 5 volumes.
> > 
> > Good effin' luck trying to find how to turn dozens of electronic 
> > features on, off or calibrate them; when to change the oil; how to 
> > change the clock tor daylight saving; program the radio or link up your 
> > phone, etc., etc....
>  
> Subaru presents one manual for each model.  It covers every trim 
> line and optional feature.  For something as simple as resetting the
> clock there will be instructions for several different versions, 
> each qualified "(if equipped)".  We go off of Daylight Savings Time 
> tomorrow morning, and I am going to have to look it up yet again.

that's incredibly poorly design.

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