Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #118158 > unrolled thread

G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk

Back to article view | Back to comp.sys.mac.system

Contents

  G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> - 2018-09-15 18:19 +0000
    Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-15 15:10 -0400
      Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> - 2018-09-22 00:26 +0200
        Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-21 18:27 -0400
          Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> - 2018-09-22 00:44 +0200
            Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-21 18:55 -0400
              Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> - 2018-09-22 01:06 +0200
                Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-21 19:20 -0400
            Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-09-22 07:40 +0000
          Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-09-21 22:56 +0000
            Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> - 2018-09-22 01:21 +0200
              Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-09-22 07:43 +0000
                Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> - 2018-09-22 12:19 +0200
                  Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-22 10:32 -0400
                    Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> - 2018-09-22 20:58 +0200
                      Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-22 15:05 -0400
                      Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-09-22 22:23 +0000
                Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-09-23 14:22 +1200
                  Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-09-23 12:13 +0000
                    Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-09-24 03:42 +1200
                      Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> - 2018-09-23 20:07 +0200
        Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk Percival John Hackworth <pjh@nanoworks.com> - 2018-09-22 10:44 -0700
          Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> - 2018-09-22 21:02 +0200
            Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-22 15:05 -0400
    Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-09-15 20:32 +0000
      Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> - 2018-09-15 22:00 +0000
        Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-09-15 18:21 -0400
        Re: G4 Mac Mini won't boot install disk bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> - 2018-09-30 16:48 +0000

Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]

#118326

David Empson wrote:
> Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> In message <1nvkwac.134cyqm1pdpbpbN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz> David Empson
>> <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
>>> 5. The computer won't boot from my USB optical drive (doesn't show up in
>>> the boot manager). That make me wonder whether it only works with some
>>> drives.
>>
>> Interesting. I worked on this with my old MacPro for a long time several
>> years ago and never got it to work and, as I said, the instructions on
>> how to do it got to the point of "flash the firmware and use this
>> bootloader" and I stopped.
>
> How is experience with an Intel Mac Pro relevant to the ability to boot
> PowerPC Macs from USB? Intel Macs are supposed to be able to boot from
> USB (later models certainly do).
>
>>> The PCI USB card and my hard drive are the only variables. I doubt the
>>> PCI card would affect the drivers used for the built-in USB ports (it
>>> would be a inconvenient to extricate the computer so I can pull the PCI
>>> card just to confirm that detail). The drive is in a Manta Ray
>>> Firewire/USB enclosure with an Oxford chipset.
>>
>> Oh, I think that might be the reason then. Buying an (at the time) $130
>> USB 2.0 card was an option for my Gigabit G4, I believe. And the kernel
>> extension for the card would "take over" the USB driver for the system.
>> I considered this a strike *against* the card, but then due to many bad
>> experiences with ape I was early on the "no kernel extensions ever"
>> train.
>
> My Leopard system which boots doesn't have any third party kernel
> extensions installed. install.log (and its compressed predecessors) only
> shows my original install of Leopard on 27 October 2007 and a software
> update check today - this was a test install of Leopard which I never
> used afterwards. I installed it using this computer, probably with the
> drive connected via Firewire because I had no reason to try it with USB.
>
> My USB 2.0 card is a generic cheap one that didn't even mention it was
> Mac compatible, let alone come with Mac drivers.
>
> I've extricated the computer from under my desk, and removed the USB 2.0
> card. I also took out my FirmTek/SeriTek SATA/eSATA card in case that
> was somehow involved.
>
> The computer still boots my Leopard drive from a built-in USB port.
>
> That just leaves testing with a different drive enclosure and a fresh
> install of Leopard. The installer probably won't allow picking a USB
> drive as the destination. My easiest option (short of using a different
> Firewire/USB enclosure which also has an Oxford chipset) is probably to
> connect a drive using Firewire or eSATA, install on that, then move it
> to my USB-only drive dock. If I can rustle up a spare 2.5-inch mechanism
> then I also have some spare 2.5-inch USB-only enclosures I could try.

David - I've been looking into my software archives and found the 
GigaDesign installer CD. Here it's clearly written that by installing 
the update to be able to run the QS's with the GD Dual 1,8ghz CPU, it 
will make the computer unable to boot into any classic Mac OS 9.x.

The GD installer also confirms that it changes parts of the ROM 
firmware, so the new CPUs won't need any specific driver to be able to 
run at the higher speeds and/or select the use of one or two CPU 
kernels. It is also stated in the ReadMe file that the change of ROM 
firmware will not have any affects on future upgrades of Apple systme 
software.

With some QS models - if I remember right - the 800mhz and Dual 800mhz - 
though, there is a custom install feature that allows a boot into Mac OS 
9.x. I'm not sure this also will do with both the GigaDesigns Dual 
1,4ghz, Dual 1,8ghz and Single 1,4ghz 1,6ghz and 1,8ghz. The software CD 
has the same ID number.

Regarding PCI cards... On all the QS's I've upgraded to either Single 
1,4ghz, Dual 1,4ghz or Dual 1,8ghz I also added a PowerLogix Combo 
USB2,0HS + FW400 card. - And - the few times I booted from an external 
USB drive I've always used the USB2,0HS ports. Note. The PL Combo has 2x 
USB2,0HS + 1x USB 1,1 ports (OHCI2,0) and 2x FW400 ports with Oxford 911 
compatible chipsets. The PL PCI cards donot need special drivers and are 
fully system integrated - incl. fixes for the 'Sleep / Awake from sleep" 
problems with G4 computers.

I have also upgraded 2x PowerMac G4/400mhz Sawtooth with 1x Single GD 
1,4ghz and 1x GD Dual 1,4ghz. These two wouldn't boot from the internal 
USB ports, but booted fine from the USB2,0 ports with a PowerLogix Combo.

My drives were - and still are - OWC Mercury Elita AL and Mercury Elite 
AL PRO DualBay (name now only Mercury Elite PRo) with 2x FW400 + 2x 
USB2,0 ports. The older AL PRO has 2x FW400, 2x FW800, 1x USB2.0 + 1x 
eSATA connections. The newer Elite PRO drives have 2x FW800, 1x FW400, 
1x USB2,0 + 1x eSATA or 2x USB3.1 + 1x eSATA connections.

Aside the Mercury drives I also have some NewerTech MiniStack V3 with 
FW400+800 + UsB 2,0, but I don't recall anything about having booted in 
USB from these drives.

My two MacPro1.1's. The 2,66ghz is produced Sep.07, the 3,0ghz produced 
Jan.08 acc. to the serial numbers. Both are EFI firmware upgraded to 
latest possible version. Both are booting fine from the front mounted 
USB2,0 ports.

My G5 Dual 1,8ghz is prod. Oct.05 "Ensembled in Ireland" acc. to the 
serial number. It boots fine from an 2,5" external Deltaco enclosure 
with a 500gb TravelStar PRO drive with 10.5.8. I did this once at the 
former owner, because he called me that it wouldn't boot from 10.4.11 - 
only 10.5.8 and he needed to run Classic to open some veeery old 
ClarisWorks 1,0v3 files...

Reg. external optical drives like CD/DVD drives. It is required that 
these drives *must* have OHCI2.0 or higher chipset. Unfortunately most 
of the external optical USB drives only have OHCI1,8 which blocks the 
drives from being recognized as bootable drives.

Cheers, Erik Richard
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Erik Richard Sørensen <mac-daneRE@MOVEstofanet.dk>
NisusWriter - The Future In Multilingual Text Processing - www.nisus.com
Openoffice.org - The Modern Productivity Solution - www.openoffice.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#118280

On 21-Sep-2018, ErikRS wrote
(in article <po3r6i$sv9$1@solani.org>):

>
> nospam wrote:
> > try booting off an external firewire drive (hd or dvd). a powerpc mac
> > won't boot from usb.
>
> That's again some of your bloody nonsens.:-(! - I've booted from USB
> drives several times on 3 different G4 QuickSilver - 2x CPU upgraded
> Dual 1,8ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz, 3 different MDDs - 1x Dual 1,0ghz, 1x
> Dual 1,25ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz (FW400+800) and 2 G5's - 2x Dual
> 1,8ghz. *ALL* of these are PowerPC Macs!
>
> Cheers, Erik Richard

"I'll have what she's having."

I had a Quicksilver. Didn't boot off USB. Ever. The boot ROM doesn't support 
it.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button! DeeDee! NO! Dee...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#118284

Percival John Hackworth wrote:
> On 21-Sep-2018, ErikRS wrote
>> nospam wrote:
>>> try booting off an external firewire drive (hd or dvd). a powerpc mac
>>> won't boot from usb.
>>
>> That's again some of your bloody nonsens.:-(! - I've booted from USB
>> drives several times on 3 different G4 QuickSilver - 2x CPU upgraded
>> Dual 1,8ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz, 3 different MDDs - 1x Dual 1,0ghz, 1x
>> Dual 1,25ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz (FW400+800) and 2 G5's - 2x Dual
>> 1,8ghz. *ALL* of these are PowerPC Macs!
>
> "I'll have what she's having."
>
> I had a Quicksilver. Didn't boot off USB. Ever. The boot ROM doesn't support
> it.

Again - read the *whole* thread and you'll also read that I wrote that 
it might have been the GigaDesigns installer software which changed the 
firmware/ROM.

Cheers, Erik Richard

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Erik Richard Sørensen <mac-daneRE@MOVEstofanet.dk>
NisusWriter - The Future In Multilingual Text Processing - www.nisus.com
Openoffice.org - The Modern Productivity Solution - www.openoffice.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#118286

In article <po63jf$f8s$1@solani.org>, ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid>
wrote:

> >>> try booting off an external firewire drive (hd or dvd). a powerpc mac
> >>> won't boot from usb.
> >>
> >> That's again some of your bloody nonsens.:-(! - I've booted from USB
> >> drives several times on 3 different G4 QuickSilver - 2x CPU upgraded
> >> Dual 1,8ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz, 3 different MDDs - 1x Dual 1,0ghz, 1x
> >> Dual 1,25ghz + 1x Single 1,25ghz (FW400+800) and 2 G5's - 2x Dual
> >> 1,8ghz. *ALL* of these are PowerPC Macs!
> >
> > "I'll have what she's having."
> >
> > I had a Quicksilver. Didn't boot off USB. Ever. The boot ROM doesn't support
> > it.
> 
> Again - read the *whole* thread and you'll also read that I wrote that 
> it might have been the GigaDesigns installer software which changed the 
> firmware/ROM.

a third party card changed the contents of rom. that's a new one.

rom = *read* *only* memory. just what do you think that might mean?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#118160

In message <pnjif6$ti7$1@news.albasani.net> bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:
> I have an old G4 Mac Mini that won't boot from either the internal
> hard disk, nor the installer DVD. Now it won't eject the DVD.

How are you trying to eject the CD?

Connect a wired mouse and hold down the left click button during
start-up.

> Now it won't eject the disk, even with eject-cd in open firmware.
> Commands like "help" in open firmware don't work, so it appears 
> things are stuck at a very low level.

Are you typing "eject-cd" or "eject cd"? It is the latter command that
should eject the optical disc.
  
> I understand there is a cr-2032 cell backing up the settings, which is
> almost certainly dead after ~13 years. Would replacing that help?

It shouldn't make any difference to the CD issue, no.

> If there are other things to try I'd be grateful to know them. There's
> nothing valuable on the machine, but if it could be salvaged it'd be nice.
> I'm perfectly willing to dismantle it.

Have you tried connecting an external drive with an appropriate system
installed?


-- 
Technically, Aziraphale was a Principality, but people made jokes about
that these days

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#118161

Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <pnjif6$ti7$1@news.albasani.net> bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:
>> I have an old G4 Mac Mini that won't boot from either the internal
>> hard disk, nor the installer DVD. Now it won't eject the DVD.
> 
> How are you trying to eject the CD?
> 
First, by cycling power. It worked the first time, when I didn't want it to,
Not since 8-(


> Connect a wired mouse and hold down the left click button during
> start-up.
>
I'm using an Apple mouse, the one with the scroll button on top. Tried
holding the mouse down, the button down and the left side of the mouse
down. No effect.
 
>> Now it won't eject the disk, even with eject-cd in open firmware.
>> Commands like "help" in open firmware don't work, so it appears 
>> things are stuck at a very low level.
> 
> Are you typing "eject-cd" or "eject cd"? It is the latter command that
> should eject the optical disc.
>   
Tried both, eject cd produced an error saying "can't open EJECT device..."
or something to that effect. On a subsequent attempt prompted by your
post I tried again, twice, and it worked the second time. Then the
machine booted! It looks like the optical drive was stuck mechanically. 

>> I understand there is a cr-2032 cell backing up the settings, which is
>> almost certainly dead after ~13 years. Would replacing that help?
> 
> It shouldn't make any difference to the CD issue, no.
>

I opened the case and checked the battery; 2.947 volts indicated. The
meter reports about 3.1 for a new cell, so the old one is low but not
dead.


> 
> Have you tried connecting an external drive with an appropriate system
> installed?
> 

No, I don't have one. Not much point in going there anyway. 

Disk Utility says the hard drive is ok. The cover is back on and
the machine has rebooted twice. That's enough for now. 

Thanks for your help!

bob prohaska

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#118162

In article <pnjvdc$fad$1@news.albasani.net>, bob prohaska
<bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:

> > Connect a wired mouse and hold down the left click button during
> > start-up.
> >
> I'm using an Apple mouse, the one with the scroll button on top. Tried
> holding the mouse down, the button down and the left side of the mouse
> down. No effect.

that mouse is awful. use a different mouse. any usb mouse will work.


> > Have you tried connecting an external drive with an appropriate system
> > installed?
> 
> No, I don't have one. Not much point in going there anyway. 

there is if you want to identify the problem.

> Disk Utility says the hard drive is ok. The cover is back on and
> the machine has rebooted twice. That's enough for now. 

disk utility doesn't check all that much, but if the drive is actually
ok, then the system on it is likely corrupted. reinstall. problem
solved. for now. it's still an 11 year old hard drive and well past its
expected lifetime.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#118539

bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:
> 
> I opened the case and checked the battery; 2.947 volts indicated. The
> meter reports about 3.1 for a new cell, so the old one is low but not
> dead.
> 
> 
> 
> Disk Utility says the hard drive is ok. The cover is back on and
> the machine has rebooted twice. That's enough for now. 
> 

A day later the machine again wouldn't boot, showing the flashing
question mark in a folder icon. 

I took it apart again, intending to re-seat the hard drive connection,
but noticed that the memory SIMM wasn't _quite_ straight in the socket.
It had never been touched, the memory chime indicated good memory test
and there was no reason to suspect a memory problem. Once I could actually
see how hard it was to re-seat the hard drive connector, I decided to start
by re-seating the SIMM first, just because I was lazy. Took the SIMM out,
eraser cleaned the contact and put it back.

The machine booted, and has continued to boot many times over the past
several days. It's difficult to reconcile the symptoms with the apparent
fix, but once again, it's good enough for present purposes. It does seem
to suggest that the "happy memory" chime does not mean all's well with the
memory.

bob prohaska
 

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]

Back to top | Article view | comp.sys.mac.system

csiph-web