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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #121420 > unrolled thread

How to Securely Delete a Data File

Started byWade Garrett <wade@cooler.net>
First post2019-01-30 19:21 -0500
Last post2019-02-07 10:31 -0500
Articles 20 on this page of 91 — 10 participants

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Contents

  How to Securely Delete a Data File Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-01-30 19:21 -0500
    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-30 19:38 -0500
    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-01-31 04:37 +0000
      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-01-31 09:12 -0500
        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-01-31 15:41 +0000
          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-31 22:55 +0000
            Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-01 08:42 -0500
      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-01-31 12:48 -0500
        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> - 2019-01-31 13:29 -0500
          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Elden <usenet@moondog.org> - 2019-01-31 14:24 -0600
          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-01 05:24 +0000
        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-31 13:41 -0500
          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-01-31 13:50 -0500
            Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-31 14:30 -0500
            Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-01 05:26 +0000
              Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-01 08:47 -0500
                Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-01 10:57 -0500
                Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-01 16:18 +0000
                  Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-01 15:26 -0500
                    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-01 21:03 +0000
                      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-01 16:12 -0500
                        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-01 21:57 +0000
                        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-02 11:23 +0000
                          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-02 10:24 -0500
                            Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-03 05:12 +0000
                              Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-03 19:14 -0500
                    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-01 21:56 +0000
                      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-01 18:34 -0500
                    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-01 19:49 -0500
                Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-01 17:05 +0000
                  Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-01 15:29 -0500
                    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-01 22:02 +0000
                      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-01 18:37 -0500
    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-01-31 09:14 -0500
    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Percival John Hackworth <pjh@nanoworks.com> - 2019-01-31 07:59 -0800
      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-31 11:04 -0500
      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-01 05:28 +0000
    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-01-31 12:49 -0500
    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-01 03:21 +0000
      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> - 2019-02-01 04:49 -0500
        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-01 10:57 -0500
          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-01 17:02 +0000
        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-01 16:16 +0000
        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-01 17:02 +0000
        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2019-02-01 12:56 -0500
          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-01 13:05 -0500
            Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2019-02-01 13:34 -0500
              Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-01 13:48 -0500
                Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2019-02-03 12:01 -0500
          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-01 18:51 +0000
    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-02-01 15:27 -0500
      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.invalid> - 2019-02-01 20:52 +0000
        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-02-02 08:09 -0500
      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-01 21:05 +0000
        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-01 22:01 +0000
        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-02-02 08:14 -0500
          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-02 16:40 +0000
            Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-02-02 18:36 -0500
              Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-03 01:23 +0000
                Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-02-03 08:54 -0500
                  Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-03 19:23 +0000
                    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> - 2019-02-03 14:49 -0500
                      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-03 22:23 +0000
                    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-02-03 17:16 -0500
                      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-03 22:51 +0000
                        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-02-04 08:38 -0500
                        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-02-04 12:12 -0500
                          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-04 18:00 +0000
                            Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-02-04 13:10 -0500
          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-02 11:43 -0500
          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-03 05:13 +0000
            Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-03 19:15 -0500
              Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-04 00:41 +0000
                Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-04 11:25 -0500
                  Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-04 13:15 -0500
                    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-04 15:28 -0500
                      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-04 16:17 -0500
                        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-04 16:40 -0500
                          Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-04 18:07 -0500
                            Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-06 19:53 -0500
                              Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-06 20:01 -0500
                                Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-07 14:00 -0500
                                  Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-07 14:08 -0500
                                    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-07 14:09 -0500
                                    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-02-07 14:10 -0500
                                      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-08 02:41 +0000
                                  Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-02-08 02:39 +0000
              Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-02-03 19:44 -0500
      Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-01 22:00 +0000
        Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-02-01 22:02 +0000
    Re: How to Securely Delete a Data File- RESOLVED Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-02-07 10:31 -0500

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#121548

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2019-02-01 10:57 -0500
Message-ID<010220191057070194%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#121535
In article <0001HW.D879806009031052B02919BF@news.astraweb.com>, Ed
Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:

> > Enable Find My Mac in System Preferences > iCloud > Find My Mac, then if
> > your Mac is lost or stolen, you'll be able to remotely lock it, track its
> > physical location, display a custom message on it, play an alarm sound on
> > it, and even erase the contents of the startup drive remotely from any iOS
> > device or any computer with a web browser. 
> > 
> > With that setup if you delete a file on the startup disk, you don’t have
> > to
> > take any further action, because all of your data is encrypted.
> > 
> > 
> 
> Not to argue but just to point out that this scenario assumes that 
> anytime you are not physically at your computer you either log out, 
> shut down, or force a password protected sleep.  That's pretty onerous 
> if, for example, you work in an office environment with frequent 
> interruptions... or have BPH :) 

not really. tap a key, enter in the password.

> I wonder if Apple couldn't use the 
> same facial recognition technology they use on the iPhone to 
> automatically lock and unlock your computer when you leave/return.

touch id on the new macbooks.

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#121554

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2019-02-01 17:02 +0000
Message-ID<gbjcduFr32cU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#121548
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <0001HW.D879806009031052B02919BF@news.astraweb.com>, Ed
> Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
> 
>>> Enable Find My Mac in System Preferences > iCloud > Find My Mac, then if
>>> your Mac is lost or stolen, you'll be able to remotely lock it, track its
>>> physical location, display a custom message on it, play an alarm sound on
>>> it, and even erase the contents of the startup drive remotely from any iOS
>>> device or any computer with a web browser. 
>>> 
>>> With that setup if you delete a file on the startup disk, you don’t have
>>> to
>>> take any further action, because all of your data is encrypted.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> Not to argue but just to point out that this scenario assumes that 
>> anytime you are not physically at your computer you either log out, 
>> shut down, or force a password protected sleep.  That's pretty onerous 
>> if, for example, you work in an office environment with frequent 
>> interruptions... or have BPH :) 
> 
> not really. tap a key, enter in the password.

Or if you wear an Apple Watch, just tap a key. 

Done.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#121549

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2019-02-01 16:16 +0000
Message-ID<slrnq58s6l.2mod.g.kreme@jaka.local>
In reply to#121535
In message <0001HW.D879806009031052B02919BF@news.astraweb.com> Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 22:21:34 -0500, Jolly Roger wrote
> (in article <gbhs9uFgv5aU1@mid.individual.net>):

>> Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>>> I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that 
>>> resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD (Mojave 
>>> 10.14.3).
>>> 
>>> How can I securely delete the copy?
>>> 
>>> I guess I could just drag it to the trash bin, empty the trash bin and 
>>> then wipe the free space on the drive- but that seems like time 
>>> consuming over-kill.
>> 
>> The reason you are worried about that is your startup drive is not secured,
>> which means that file you deleted is just one of many that someone could
>> read.
>> 
>> Enable full-disk encryption on the startup disk by enabling System
>> Preferences > Security > FileVault, then a would-be thief won't be able to
>> boot from or access the encrypted data on the startup disk - even if they
>> remove it from the computer and put it into another computer or enclosure.
>> Your data is safely encrypted. 
>> 
>> Set a firmware password on your Mac so the computer will refuse to start up
>> from any internal or external storage device other than the startup disk
>> you have selected in the System Preferences > Startup Disk preference pane.
>> 
>> 
>> Enable Find My Mac in System Preferences > iCloud > Find My Mac, then if
>> your Mac is lost or stolen, you'll be able to remotely lock it, track its
>> physical location, display a custom message on it, play an alarm sound on
>> it, and even erase the contents of the startup drive remotely from any iOS
>> device or any computer with a web browser. 
>> 
>> With that setup if you delete a file on the startup disk, you don’t have to
>> take any further action, because all of your data is encrypted.
>> 
>> 

> Not to argue but just to point out that this scenario assumes that 
> anytime you are not physically at your computer you either log out, 
> shut down, or force a password protected sleep.  That's pretty onerous 
> if, for example, you work in an office environment with frequent 
> interruptions... or have BPH :)  I wonder if Apple couldn't use the 
> same facial recognition technology they use on the iPhone to 
> automatically lock and unlock your computer when you leave/return.

My laptop unlocks when I touch any key or click the mouse if I am
wearing my watch.

I am sure that FaceID will come to the Mac at some point, but with my
watch I am in no hurry.

Newer laptops have TouchID, with is extremely convenient and allows you
to login/unlock put touch, and can even switch to the right account for
multi-user systems.

-- 
'What is this thing, anyway?' said the Dean, inspecting the implement in
his hands. 'It's called a shovel', said the Senior Wrangler. 'I've seen
the gardeners use them. You stick the sharp end in the ground. Then it
gets a bit technical.' --Reaper Man

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#121553

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2019-02-01 17:02 +0000
Message-ID<gbjccbFr2ubU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#121535
Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 22:21:34 -0500, Jolly Roger wrote
> (in article <gbhs9uFgv5aU1@mid.individual.net>):
> 
>> Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>>> I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that 
>>> resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD (Mojave 
>>> 10.14.3).
>>> 
>>> How can I securely delete the copy?
>>> 
>>> I guess I could just drag it to the trash bin, empty the trash bin and 
>>> then wipe the free space on the drive- but that seems like time 
>>> consuming over-kill.
>> 
>> The reason you are worried about that is your startup drive is not secured,
>> which means that file you deleted is just one of many that someone could
>> read.
>> 
>> Enable full-disk encryption on the startup disk by enabling System
>> Preferences > Security > FileVault, then a would-be thief won't be able to
>> boot from or access the encrypted data on the startup disk - even if they
>> remove it from the computer and put it into another computer or enclosure.
>> Your data is safely encrypted. 
>> 
>> Set a firmware password on your Mac so the computer will refuse to start up
>> from any internal or external storage device other than the startup disk
>> you have selected in the System Preferences > Startup Disk preference pane.
>> 
>> 
>> Enable Find My Mac in System Preferences > iCloud > Find My Mac, then if
>> your Mac is lost or stolen, you'll be able to remotely lock it, track its
>> physical location, display a custom message on it, play an alarm sound on
>> it, and even erase the contents of the startup drive remotely from any iOS
>> device or any computer with a web browser. 
>> 
>> With that setup if you delete a file on the startup disk, you don’t have to
>> take any further action, because all of your data is encrypted.
> 
> Not to argue but just to point out that this scenario assumes that 
> anytime you are not physically at your computer you either log out, 
> shut down, or force a password protected sleep.  

If you don’t have your Mac configured to lock the screen when you are away
from it, you have nobody but yourself to blame. Due to your own stupidity,
anyone can walk up to it and access everything on it.


> That's pretty onerous 

No it isn’t.

> if, for example, you work in an office environment with frequent 
> interruptions... 

Bullshit. I work professionally with all of the above platforms daily. And
not only do I have all of my workstations configured to lock the screen
within minutes of me leaving them, corporate IT mandates they be configured
that way.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#121561

FromBarry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu>
Date2019-02-01 12:56 -0500
Message-ID<barmar-F9D25F.12562701022019@reader.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#121535
In article <0001HW.D879806009031052B02919BF@news.astraweb.com>,
 Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:

> Not to argue but just to point out that this scenario assumes that 
> anytime you are not physically at your computer you either log out, 
> shut down, or force a password protected sleep.  That's pretty onerous 
> if, for example, you work in an office environment with frequent 
> interruptions...

When I worked in an office environment, our IT Department enforced 
password-protected screensavers.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#121562

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2019-02-01 13:05 -0500
Message-ID<010220191305007643%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#121561
In article <barmar-F9D25F.12562701022019@reader.eternal-september.org>,
Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

> > Not to argue but just to point out that this scenario assumes that 
> > anytime you are not physically at your computer you either log out, 
> > shut down, or force a password protected sleep.  That's pretty onerous 
> > if, for example, you work in an office environment with frequent 
> > interruptions...
> 
> When I worked in an office environment, our IT Department enforced 
> password-protected screensavers.

unless they blocked booting from an external device, physically secured
the computer from tampering and required full disk encryption, that's
nothing more than security theater.

otherwise, it's trivial to boot from a usb stick and copy whatever, or
for something more drastic, swap the drive or steal the entire
computer.

and they probably didn't have a secure network either.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#121567

FromBarry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu>
Date2019-02-01 13:34 -0500
Message-ID<barmar-9A98A7.13340601022019@reader.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#121562
In article <010220191305007643%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <barmar-F9D25F.12562701022019@reader.eternal-september.org>,
> Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> 
> > > Not to argue but just to point out that this scenario assumes that 
> > > anytime you are not physically at your computer you either log out, 
> > > shut down, or force a password protected sleep.  That's pretty onerous 
> > > if, for example, you work in an office environment with frequent 
> > > interruptions...
> > 
> > When I worked in an office environment, our IT Department enforced 
> > password-protected screensavers.
> 
> unless they blocked booting from an external device, physically secured
> the computer from tampering and required full disk encryption, that's
> nothing more than security theater.

They did require FDE, and this was before Apple provided it, so we used 
a third-party product (I don't remember what it was -- it's been over 7 
years). I don't think they prevented booting from external devices. And 
we were expected to take them home and on trips (since we were often on 
call), so physical security was minimal; they gave us locking cables so 
someone couldn't just grab them and go (I'm looking at my current 
MacBook Pro, and it seems like Apple got rid of the port for that).

> 
> otherwise, it's trivial to boot from a usb stick and copy whatever, or
> for something more drastic, swap the drive or steal the entire
> computer.
> 
> and they probably didn't have a secure network either.

We used 802.1X to authenticate connections to the network.

Akamai takes security pretty seriously. Their customers include most of 
the biggest names on the Internet.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

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#121568

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2019-02-01 13:48 -0500
Message-ID<010220191348274046%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#121567
In article <barmar-9A98A7.13340601022019@reader.eternal-september.org>,
Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

> > and they probably didn't have a secure network either.
> 
> We used 802.1X to authenticate connections to the network.

that's good, but i was thinking wired ethernet. drop a tap and go
wild...

> Akamai takes security pretty seriously. Their customers include most of 
> the biggest names on the Internet.

they do, but they're one of the few exceptions. 

most companies don't have a clue. equifax comes to mind. admin/admin
and you're in (not kidding either).

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#121694

FromBarry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu>
Date2019-02-03 12:01 -0500
Message-ID<barmar-51609B.12013603022019@reader.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#121568
In article <010220191348274046%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
 nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <barmar-9A98A7.13340601022019@reader.eternal-september.org>,
> Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> 
> > > and they probably didn't have a secure network either.
> > 
> > We used 802.1X to authenticate connections to the network.
> 
> that's good, but i was thinking wired ethernet. drop a tap and go
> wild...

I think they used it on Ethernet, too, but I'm not absolutely sure.

We had two Ethernet jacks in our cubicles, one was the secure internal 
network, the other a public network.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

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#121569

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2019-02-01 18:51 +0000
Message-ID<gbjipjFsdp9U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#121561
On 2019-02-01, Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> In article <0001HW.D879806009031052B02919BF@news.astraweb.com>,
>  Ed Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> Not to argue but just to point out that this scenario assumes that 
>> anytime you are not physically at your computer you either log out, 
>> shut down, or force a password protected sleep.  That's pretty onerous 
>> if, for example, you work in an office environment with frequent 
>> interruptions...
>
> When I worked in an office environment, our IT Department enforced 
> password-protected screensavers.

Many do.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#121583

FromWade Garrett <wade@cooler.net>
Date2019-02-01 15:27 -0500
Message-ID<q32a2o$uu9$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#121420
On 1/30/19 7:21 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
> I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that 
> resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD (Mojave 
> 10.14.3).
> 
> How can I securely delete the copy?
> 
> I guess I could just drag it to the trash bin, empty the trash bin and 
> then wipe the free space on the drive- but that seems like time 
> consuming over-kill.

OP here- Thanks for the inputs, guys.

So..........it looks like there's no easy, graceful way to do it.

Way to go Tim........great job doing away with such a simple, basic, 
important feature!

-- 
I’m so old I can remember when other people's achievements were 
considered to be an inspiration rather than a grievance.
												— Thomas Sowell

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#121585

From"David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.invalid>
Date2019-02-01 20:52 +0000
Message-ID<5k25E.23$RL3.3@fx01.fr7>
In reply to#121583
On 01/02/2019 20:27, Wade Garrett wrote:
> On 1/30/19 7:21 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
>> I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that 
>> resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD 
>> (Mojave 10.14.3).
>>
>> How can I securely delete the copy?
>>
>> I guess I could just drag it to the trash bin, empty the trash bin and 
>> then wipe the free space on the drive- but that seems like time 
>> consuming over-kill.
> 
> OP here- Thanks for the inputs, guys.
> 
> So..........it looks like there's no easy, graceful way to do it.
> 
> Way to go Tim........great job doing away with such a simple, basic, 
> important feature!

I appear to still have an 'Erase' facility:-

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7p0hz8hu74umxha/Screenshot%202019-02-01%2020.46.15.png?dl=0

The techie guys here could probably talk you through creating a new 
partition then transferring your confidential pages to the new 
partition. I envisage that the new partition could then be relatively 
quickly overwritten.

Just a thought!

-- 
David B.

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#121617

FromWade Garrett <wade@cooler.net>
Date2019-02-02 08:09 -0500
Message-ID<q344r4$h3j$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#121585
On 2/1/19 3:52 PM, David B. wrote:
> On 01/02/2019 20:27, Wade Garrett wrote:
>> On 1/30/19 7:21 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
>>> I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that 
>>> resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD 
>>> (Mojave 10.14.3).
>>>
>>> How can I securely delete the copy?
>>>
>>> I guess I could just drag it to the trash bin, empty the trash bin 
>>> and then wipe the free space on the drive- but that seems like time 
>>> consuming over-kill.
>>
>> OP here- Thanks for the inputs, guys.
>>
>> So..........it looks like there's no easy, graceful way to do it.
>>
>> Way to go Tim........great job doing away with such a simple, basic, 
>> important feature!
> 
> I appear to still have an 'Erase' facility:-
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/7p0hz8hu74umxha/Screenshot%202019-02-01%2020.46.15.png?dl=0 
> 
> 
> The techie guys here could probably talk you through creating a new 
> partition then transferring your confidential pages to the new 
> partition. I envisage that the new partition could then be relatively 
> quickly overwritten.
> 
> Just a thought!
> 
Right. But like I said, it should be a one-click feature, two at 
worst....not one that requires a systems engineer doing a chicken dance ;-)

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#121587

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2019-02-01 21:05 +0000
Message-ID<slrnq59d55.b1l.g.kreme@jaka.local>
In reply to#121583
In message <q32a2o$uu9$1@news.albasani.net> Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
> On 1/30/19 7:21 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
>> I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that 
>> resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD (Mojave 
>> 10.14.3).
>> 
>> How can I securely delete the copy?
>> 
>> I guess I could just drag it to the trash bin, empty the trash bin and 
>> then wipe the free space on the drive- but that seems like time 
>> consuming over-kill.

> OP here- Thanks for the inputs, guys.

> So..........it looks like there's no easy, graceful way to do it.

Yes there is. Use FileVault and simply delete the file.

> Way to go Tim........great job doing away with such a simple, basic, 
> important feature!

It is not a simple feature with an SSD drive.

-- 
Once upon a time, a woman was picking up firewood. She came upon a
poisonous snake frozen in the snow. She took the snake home and nurse it
back to health. One day the snake bit her on the cheek. As she lay
dying, she asked the snake, "Why have you done this to me?" And the
snake answered, "Look, bitch, you knew I was a snake."

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#121593

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2019-02-01 22:01 +0000
Message-ID<gbjtt2F7k4U4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#121587
On 2019-02-01, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <q32a2o$uu9$1@news.albasani.net> Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>> On 1/30/19 7:21 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
>>> I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that 
>>> resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD (Mojave 
>>> 10.14.3).
>>> 
>>> How can I securely delete the copy?
>>> 
>>> I guess I could just drag it to the trash bin, empty the trash bin and 
>>> then wipe the free space on the drive- but that seems like time 
>>> consuming over-kill.
>
>> OP here- Thanks for the inputs, guys.
>
>> So..........it looks like there's no easy, graceful way to do it.
>
> Yes there is. Use FileVault and simply delete the file.

Indeed. Encrypt the entire drive and there's no extra step needed.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#121618

FromWade Garrett <wade@cooler.net>
Date2019-02-02 08:14 -0500
Message-ID<q3453u$fbs$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#121587
On 2/1/19 4:05 PM, Lewis wrote:
> In message <q32a2o$uu9$1@news.albasani.net> Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>> On 1/30/19 7:21 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
>>> I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that
>>> resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD (Mojave
>>> 10.14.3).
>>>
>>> How can I securely delete the copy?
>>>
>>> I guess I could just drag it to the trash bin, empty the trash bin and
>>> then wipe the free space on the drive- but that seems like time
>>> consuming over-kill.
> 
>> OP here- Thanks for the inputs, guys.
> 
>> So..........it looks like there's no easy, graceful way to do it.
> 
> Yes there is. Use FileVault and simply delete the file.
> 
>> Way to go Tim........great job doing away with such a simple, basic,
>> important feature!
> 
> It is not a simple feature with an SSD drive.
> 
That may be so...but I don't have an SSD drive. And I suspect most folks 
are still using spinning hard drives.

Seems to me it would be simple enough to leave the secure delete feature 
in though disable it for SSDs.

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#121623

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2019-02-02 16:40 +0000
Message-ID<gblvghFds0dU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#121618
On 2019-02-02, Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
> On 2/1/19 4:05 PM, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <q32a2o$uu9$1@news.albasani.net> Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>>> On 1/30/19 7:21 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
>>>> I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that
>>>> resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD (Mojave
>>>> 10.14.3).
>>>>
>>>> How can I securely delete the copy?
>>>>
>>>> I guess I could just drag it to the trash bin, empty the trash bin and
>>>> then wipe the free space on the drive- but that seems like time
>>>> consuming over-kill.
>> 
>>> OP here- Thanks for the inputs, guys.
>> 
>>> So..........it looks like there's no easy, graceful way to do it.
>> 
>> Yes there is. Use FileVault and simply delete the file.
>> 
>>> Way to go Tim........great job doing away with such a simple, basic,
>>> important feature!
>> 
>> It is not a simple feature with an SSD drive.
>> 
> That may be so...but I don't have an SSD drive. And I suspect most folks 
> are still using spinning hard drives.
>
> Seems to me it would be simple enough to leave the secure delete feature 
> in though disable it for SSDs.

All Mac users should be using FileVault. With FileVault everything on
the drive is encrypted, and there is no need for secure delete.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#121673

FromWade Garrett <wade@cooler.net>
Date2019-02-02 18:36 -0500
Message-ID<q359hb$93k$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#121623
On 2/2/19 11:40 AM, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2019-02-02, Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>> On 2/1/19 4:05 PM, Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <q32a2o$uu9$1@news.albasani.net> Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>>>> On 1/30/19 7:21 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
>>>>> I inadvertently created a copy of confidential Pages document that
>>>>> resides on an encrypted sparsebundle on my spinning Macintosh HD (Mojave
>>>>> 10.14.3).
>>>>>
>>>>> How can I securely delete the copy?
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess I could just drag it to the trash bin, empty the trash bin and
>>>>> then wipe the free space on the drive- but that seems like time
>>>>> consuming over-kill.
>>>
>>>> OP here- Thanks for the inputs, guys.
>>>
>>>> So..........it looks like there's no easy, graceful way to do it.
>>>
>>> Yes there is. Use FileVault and simply delete the file.
>>>
>>>> Way to go Tim........great job doing away with such a simple, basic,
>>>> important feature!
>>>
>>> It is not a simple feature with an SSD drive.
>>>
>> That may be so...but I don't have an SSD drive. And I suspect most folks
>> are still using spinning hard drives.
>>
>> Seems to me it would be simple enough to leave the secure delete feature
>> in though disable it for SSDs.
> 
> All Mac users should be using FileVault. With FileVault everything on
> the drive is encrypted, and there is no need for secure delete.
> 
With File Vault on, I understand that I have to enter the password when 
the computer starts.

But does "start" mean only when I hit the start button and power my iMac 
on and it boots- or does the pw also have to be entered on wakeup from 
sleep or when the screen blanks from inactivity?

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#121677

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2019-02-03 01:23 +0000
Message-ID<gbmu57Fkb28U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#121673
On 2019-02-02, Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
> On 2/2/19 11:40 AM, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> 
>> All Mac users should be using FileVault. With FileVault everything on
>> the drive is encrypted, and there is no need for secure delete.
>> 
> With File Vault on, I understand that I have to enter the password when 
> the computer starts.
>
> But does "start" mean only when I hit the start button and power my iMac 
> on and it boots-

Yes.

> or does the pw also have to be entered on wakeup from 
> sleep or when the screen blanks from inactivity?

No, that's what System Preferences > Security > General > Require
password after sleep or screen saver begins is for. And all Mac users
should do that as well - otherwise anyone can walk up to your computer
and access all of your files.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#121693

FromWade Garrett <wade@cooler.net>
Date2019-02-03 08:54 -0500
Message-ID<q36rpt$f8k$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#121677
On 2/2/19 8:23 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2019-02-02, Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>> On 2/2/19 11:40 AM, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>
>>> All Mac users should be using FileVault. With FileVault everything on
>>> the drive is encrypted, and there is no need for secure delete.
>>>
>> With File Vault on, I understand that I have to enter the password when
>> the computer starts.
>>
>> But does "start" mean only when I hit the start button and power my iMac
>> on and it boots-
> 
> Yes.
> 
>> or does the pw also have to be entered on wakeup from
>> sleep or when the screen blanks from inactivity?
> 
> No, that's what System Preferences > Security > General > Require
> password after sleep or screen saver begins is for. And all Mac users
> should do that as well - otherwise anyone can walk up to your computer
> and access all of your files.
> 

My iMac is used in my home office so there's no walk-up access issue. 
But I usually come back to it a dozen or more times a day. I had thought 
that FileVault required the PW to be entered on wakeup too and didn't 
want to have to enter my strong, lengthy PW each time.

That's why I created the encrypted sparsebundle to secure my 
confidential files. I leave it mounted all the time when I'm at home and 
only unmount it when I leave the house.

If I change to FileVault, is there a command to lock the computer- or 
would I need to shut down or reboot to secure the computer?

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