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Data Migration Sierra to Mojave

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  Data Migration Sierra to Mojave Simple Simon <please.dontspa@me.com> - 2019-01-12 05:50 +0000
    Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2019-01-12 19:31 +1300
      Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-12 01:52 -0500
      Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-12 06:58 +0000
        Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave Simple Simon <please.dontspa@me.com> - 2019-01-12 11:01 +0000
          Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-12 08:58 -0500
        Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave Percival John Hackworth <pjh@nanoworks.com> - 2019-01-12 08:49 -0800
          Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2019-01-13 09:36 +1300
            Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-12 17:38 -0500
      Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-01-12 13:43 +0000
      Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2019-01-13 00:18 -0500
        Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2019-01-13 19:37 +1300
          Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-13 01:50 -0500
            Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2019-01-13 07:02 -0500
              Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-13 13:53 -0500
          Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2019-01-13 06:48 -0500
            Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-13 17:00 +0000
            Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2019-01-14 09:14 +1300
              Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-01-13 16:05 -0500
          Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-13 16:49 +0000
    Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2019-01-13 00:14 -0500
      Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-01-13 17:02 +0000
        Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2019-01-13 15:47 -0500
          Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-01-14 03:32 +0000
      Re: Data Migration Sierra to Mojave Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-01-13 22:01 +0000

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#120440 — Data Migration Sierra to Mojave

I am upgrading my 2011 Mac Mini to one of the new models.

I intend to use the data migration assistant to copy the data over.
Now the old mini will not run Mojave and will only upgrade to High 
Sierra whereas the new one will come with Mojave.

I presume this will not be a problem. The new system will stay as Mojave 
with just my data/account added?

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#120441

On 2019-01-12 05:50:02 +0000, Simple Simon said:
> 
> I am upgrading my 2011 Mac Mini to one of the new models.
> 
> I intend to use the data migration assistant to copy the data over.
> Now the old mini will not run Mojave and will only upgrade to High 
> Sierra whereas the new one will come with Mojave.
> 
> I presume this will not be a problem. The new system will stay as 
> Mojave with just my data/account added?

Don't run Migration Assistant as part of the set-up process.

Set-up the new computer first, *then* run Migration Assistant 
separately from the Applications->Utilities folder.


Even better, don't use Migration Assistant at all. Set-up the new 
computer, then install fresh copies of any applications and copy over 
any files you *really* need. Only install other apps and copy other 
files as and when you need them ... you'll find a ton of stuff simply 
isn't needed at all, or can be put on an external drive / thumb drive 
for occasional access.

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#120442

In article <q1c1kf$1nrl$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> > I am upgrading my 2011 Mac Mini to one of the new models.
> > 
> > I intend to use the data migration assistant to copy the data over.
> > Now the old mini will not run Mojave and will only upgrade to High 
> > Sierra whereas the new one will come with Mojave.
> > 
> > I presume this will not be a problem. The new system will stay as 
> > Mojave with just my data/account added?

it'll work fine.

> Don't run Migration Assistant as part of the set-up process.

nonsense. that's the best time to run it, really the only time.
anything else causes all sorts of problems.

> Set-up the new computer first, *then* run Migration Assistant 
> separately from the Applications->Utilities folder.

do *not* do this.

> Even better, don't use Migration Assistant at all. Set-up the new 
> computer, then install fresh copies of any applications and copy over 
> any files you *really* need. Only install other apps and copy other 
> files as and when you need them ... you'll find a ton of stuff simply 
> isn't needed at all, or can be put on an external drive / thumb drive 
> for occasional access.

more bad advice.

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#120443

On 2019-01-12, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> On 2019-01-12 05:50:02 +0000, Simple Simon said:
>> 
>> I am upgrading my 2011 Mac Mini to one of the new models.
>> 
>> I intend to use the data migration assistant to copy the data over.
>> Now the old mini will not run Mojave and will only upgrade to High 
>> Sierra whereas the new one will come with Mojave.
>> 
>> I presume this will not be a problem. The new system will stay as 
>> Mojave with just my data/account added?
>
> Don't run Migration Assistant as part of the set-up process.
>
> Set-up the new computer first, *then* run Migration Assistant 
> separately from the Applications->Utilities folder.
>
> Even better, don't use Migration Assistant at all. Set-up the new 
> computer, then install fresh copies of any applications and copy over 
> any files you *really* need. Only install other apps and copy other 
> files as and when you need them ... you'll find a ton of stuff simply 
> isn't needed at all, or can be put on an external drive / thumb drive 
> for occasional access.

Horrible advice. Your Name clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.
Don't take his advice. Take Apple's advice instead:

When you set up the new computer and it asks you if you want to transfer
your information from another computer, just follow the prompts to
migrate your data from it to the new one.

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205749>

"We recommend that you let the setup assistant turn on FileVault, iCloud
Keychain, and Find My Mac. You can also let it transfer information from
another computer or Time Machine backup, or you can do that later using
Migration Assistant."

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#120446

Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2019-01-12, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>> On 2019-01-12 05:50:02 +0000, Simple Simon said:
>>>
>>> I am upgrading my 2011 Mac Mini to one of the new models.
>>>
>>> I intend to use the data migration assistant to copy the data over.
>>> Now the old mini will not run Mojave and will only upgrade to High
>>> Sierra whereas the new one will come with Mojave.
>>>
>>> I presume this will not be a problem. The new system will stay as
>>> Mojave with just my data/account added?
>>
>> Don't run Migration Assistant as part of the set-up process.
>>
>> Set-up the new computer first, *then* run Migration Assistant
>> separately from the Applications->Utilities folder.
>>
>> Even better, don't use Migration Assistant at all. Set-up the new
>> computer, then install fresh copies of any applications and copy over
>> any files you *really* need. Only install other apps and copy other
>> files as and when you need them ... you'll find a ton of stuff simply
>> isn't needed at all, or can be put on an external drive / thumb drive
>> for occasional access.
> 
> Horrible advice. Your Name clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.
> Don't take his advice. Take Apple's advice instead:
> 
> When you set up the new computer and it asks you if you want to transfer
> your information from another computer, just follow the prompts to
> migrate your data from it to the new one.
> 
> <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205749>
> 
> "We recommend that you let the setup assistant turn on FileVault, iCloud
> Keychain, and Find My Mac. You can also let it transfer information from
> another computer or Time Machine backup, or you can do that later using
> Migration Assistant."
> 

Many thanks for this - is it better (faster) to do the data migration 
via a Time Capsule backup on a USB HD or across the network?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#120448

In article <q1chdg$1r7m$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Simple Simon
<please.dontspa@me.com> wrote:

> 
> Many thanks for this - is it better (faster) to do the data migration 
> via a Time Capsule backup on a USB HD or across the network?

it's *much* faster via hd.

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#120455

On 11-Jan-2019, Jolly Roger wrote
(in article <g9thfsFjmrU1@mid.individual.net>):

> On 2019-01-12, Your Name<YourName@YourISP.com>  wrote:
> > On 2019-01-12 05:50:02 +0000, Simple Simon said:
> > >
> > > I am upgrading my 2011 Mac Mini to one of the new models.
> > >
> > > I intend to use the data migration assistant to copy the data over.
> > > Now the old mini will not run Mojave and will only upgrade to High
> > > Sierra whereas the new one will come with Mojave.
> > >
> > > I presume this will not be a problem. The new system will stay as
> > > Mojave with just my data/account added?
> >
> > Don't run Migration Assistant as part of the set-up process.
> >
> > Set-up the new computer first, *then* run Migration Assistant
> > separately from the Applications->Utilities folder.
> >
> > Even better, don't use Migration Assistant at all. Set-up the new
> > computer, then install fresh copies of any applications and copy over
> > any files you *really* need. Only install other apps and copy other
> > files as and when you need them ... you'll find a ton of stuff simply
> > isn't needed at all, or can be put on an external drive / thumb drive
> > for occasional access.
>
> Horrible advice. Your Name clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.
> Don't take his advice. Take Apple's advice instead:
>
> When you set up the new computer and it asks you if you want to transfer
> your information from another computer, just follow the prompts to
> migrate your data from it to the new one.
>
> <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205749>
>
> "We recommend that you let the setup assistant turn on FileVault, iCloud
> Keychain, and Find My Mac. You can also let it transfer information from
> another computer or Time Machine backup, or you can do that later using
> Migration Assistant."

Yeah, I echo this advice. The Migration Assistant isn't as comprehensive as 
the initial setup Migration. I've done a migration install of 10.11 over a 
10.8 system and everything came over even the Apache setup. Various apps 
didn't work like iPhoto but I did find a "last version" in the Apple Store. I 
don't like Photos and don't have that much stuff stored in the app anyway.

I also have an ancient Airport Express extender on my network. It still works 
with the newer Airport Utility. Ultimately, I ended up wiping that upgrade 
and installing 10.10 because several applications I used regularly would 
pinwheel and stop working. The developers were mystified as to why but they 
worked fine on 10.10. There I'm staying for the time being until I get 
another system.

I ran my TurboTax program on 10.12 in VMware last year and will likely do the 
same this year.

YMMV.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button! DeeDee! NO! Dee...

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#120464

On 2019-01-12 16:49:44 +0000, Percival John Hackworth said:
> On 11-Jan-2019, Jolly Roger wrote
> (in article <g9thfsFjmrU1@mid.individual.net>):
>> On 2019-01-12, Your Name<YourName@YourISP.com>  wrote:
>>> On 2019-01-12 05:50:02 +0000, Simple Simon said:
>>>> 
>>>> I am upgrading my 2011 Mac Mini to one of the new models.
>>>> 
>>>> I intend to use the data migration assistant to copy the data over.
>>>> Now the old mini will not run Mojave and will only upgrade to High
>>>> Sierra whereas the new one will come with Mojave.
>>>> 
>>>> I presume this will not be a problem. The new system will stay as
>>>> Mojave with just my data/account added?
>>> 
>>> Don't run Migration Assistant as part of the set-up process.
>>> 
>>> Set-up the new computer first, *then* run Migration Assistant
>>> separately from the Applications->Utilities folder.
>>> 
>>> Even better, don't use Migration Assistant at all. Set-up the new
>>> computer, then install fresh copies of any applications and copy over
>>> any files you *really* need. Only install other apps and copy other
>>> files as and when you need them ... you'll find a ton of stuff simply
>>> isn't needed at all, or can be put on an external drive / thumb drive
>>> for occasional access.
>> 
>> Horrible advice. Your Name clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.
>> Don't take his advice. Take Apple's advice instead:
>> 
>> When you set up the new computer and it asks you if you want to transfer
>> your information from another computer, just follow the prompts to
>> migrate your data from it to the new one.
>> 
>> <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205749>
>> 
>> "We recommend that you let the setup assistant turn on FileVault, iCloud
>> Keychain, and Find My Mac. You can also let it transfer information from
>> another computer or Time Machine backup, or you can do that later using
>> Migration Assistant."
> 
> Yeah, I echo this advice. The Migration Assistant isn't as comprehensive as
> the initial setup Migration. I've done a migration install of 10.11 over a
> 10.8 system and everything came over even the Apache setup. Various apps
> didn't work like iPhoto but I did find a "last version" in the Apple Store. I
> don't like Photos and don't have that much stuff stored in the app anyway.
> 
> I also have an ancient Airport Express extender on my network. It still works
> with the newer Airport Utility. Ultimately, I ended up wiping that upgrade
> and installing 10.10 because several applications I used regularly would
> pinwheel and stop working. The developers were mystified as to why but they
> worked fine on 10.10. There I'm staying for the time being until I get
> another system.
> 
> I ran my TurboTax program on 10.12 in VMware last year and will likely do the
> same this year.
> 
> YMMV.

Migration Assitant is the exact same app whether you use it during the 
set-up or later. There's no difference in how it works. Either way you 
can end up can transferring a load of crap that isn't needed and / or 
can someties cause issues with a newer version of the OS (or older 
version of the OS if going backwards).

It's best practice to NOT use it during the inital set-up, but to first 
set-up the new computer (including installing any OS updates) and 
*then* use Migration Assistant separately afterwards. One of many 
examples: 
<https://www.macobserver.com/tips/quick-tip/three-tips-on-migrating-to-a-new-mac/> 


Much better is simply doing it manually and clean installing apps and 
files you *actually* *need* since that also allows you to not bother 
copying across the excess stuff you don't ever use anyway ... which is 
useful since Apple is continuing to push to SSDs with their lower or 
more expensive capacities.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#120466

In article <q1dj3i$ndl$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> Migration Assitant is the exact same app whether you use it during the 
> set-up or later. There's no difference in how it works. Either way you 
> can end up can transferring a load of crap that isn't needed and / or 
> can someties cause issues with a newer version of the OS (or older 
> version of the OS if going backwards).

it's same app, but the part you fail to understand is that the results
are different depending when it's run.

when run at initial system setup, it creates users with the same uids,
which eliminates a shitload of problems. afterward, it can't do that,
and there will be an extra account to deal with.

> It's best practice to NOT use it during the inital set-up, but to first 
> set-up the new computer (including installing any OS updates) and 
> *then* use Migration Assistant separately afterwards. One of many 
> examples: 
>
> <https://www.macobserver.com/tips/quick-tip/three-tips-on-migrating-to-a-new-m
> ac/> 

that's full of bad advice. there is no reason to upgrade the old mac to
the latest version just for migration, unless it's old enough to where
migration can't migrate from it, which is usually more than 3-4
versions back. 

> Much better is simply doing it manually and clean installing apps and 
> files you *actually* *need* since that also allows you to not bother 
> copying across the excess stuff you don't ever use anyway ... which is 
> useful since Apple is continuing to push to SSDs with their lower or 
> more expensive capacities.

no it's not much better. it's a shitload of effort and anything that
isn't used anymore can be deleted.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#120447

In message <q1c1kf$1nrl$1@gioia.aioe.org> Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> On 2019-01-12 05:50:02 +0000, Simple Simon said:
>> 
>> I am upgrading my 2011 Mac Mini to one of the new models.
>> 
>> I intend to use the data migration assistant to copy the data over.
>> Now the old mini will not run Mojave and will only upgrade to High 
>> Sierra whereas the new one will come with Mojave.
>> 
>> I presume this will not be a problem. The new system will stay as 
>> Mojave with just my data/account added?

> Don't run Migration Assistant as part of the set-up process.

> Set-up the new computer first, *then* run Migration Assistant 
> separately from the Applications->Utilities folder.

This is bad advice, and this is not how you should ever run migration
assistant unless you are migrating over non-primary users.

Run it during setup. I like to run it from my most recent Time Machine
backup since U can just connect the drive to the new computer.

> Even better, don't use Migration Assistant at all. Set-up the new 
> computer, then install fresh copies of any applications and copy over 
> any files you *really* need. Only install other apps and copy other 
> files as and when you need them ... you'll find a ton of stuff simply 
> isn't needed at all, or can be put on an external drive / thumb drive 
> for occasional access.

This is even worse advice as you will spend weeks or months trying to
track down things you forgot about.


-- 
I wrote this song two hours before we met. I didn't know your name, or
what you looked like yet....

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#120477

On 12 Jan 2019, Your Name wrote
(in article <q1c1kf$1nrl$1@gioia.aioe.org>):

> On 2019-01-12 05:50:02 +0000, Simple Simon said:
> >
> > I am upgrading my 2011 Mac Mini to one of the new models.
> >
> > I intend to use the data migration assistant to copy the data over.
> > Now the old mini will not run Mojave and will only upgrade to High
> > Sierra whereas the new one will come with Mojave.
> >
> > I presume this will not be a problem. The new system will stay as
> > Mojave with just my data/account added?
>
> Don't run Migration Assistant as part of the set-up process.

Running Migration Assistant later is possible but is not advisable. You will 
complicate your life considerably if you do this.
>
>
> Set-up the new computer first, *then* run Migration Assistant
> separately from the Applications->Utilities folder.

This is a Very Bad Idea.
>
>
> Even better, don't use Migration Assistant at all. Set-up the new
> computer, then install fresh copies of any applications and copy over
> any files you *really* need. Only install other apps and copy other
> files as and when you need them ... you'll find a ton of stuff simply
> isn't needed at all, or can be put on an external drive / thumb drive
> for occasional access.

This is a worse idea. For one thing, how many full installers for your apps 
do you have? For another, how much time do you want to spend? Running 
Migration Assistant is semi-automatic. Installing each app, one at a time, 
will take _days_.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#120480

On 2019-01-13 05:18:48 +0000, Wolffan said:

> On 12 Jan 2019, Your Name wrote
> (in article <q1c1kf$1nrl$1@gioia.aioe.org>):
> 
>> On 2019-01-12 05:50:02 +0000, Simple Simon said:
>>> 
>>> I am upgrading my 2011 Mac Mini to one of the new models.
>>> 
>>> I intend to use the data migration assistant to copy the data over.
>>> Now the old mini will not run Mojave and will only upgrade to High
>>> Sierra whereas the new one will come with Mojave.
>>> 
>>> I presume this will not be a problem. The new system will stay as
>>> Mojave with just my data/account added?
>> 
>> Don't run Migration Assistant as part of the set-up process.
> 
> Running Migration Assistant later is possible but is not advisable. You will
> complicate your life considerably if you do this.

Both during and after set-up has pros and cons. The cons of after are 
fewer than those of during, but as below, a fully clean set-up is even 
better.




>> Set-up the new computer first, *then* run Migration Assistant
>> separately from the Applications->Utilities folder.
> 
> This is a Very Bad Idea.
>> 
>> 
>> Even better, don't use Migration Assistant at all. Set-up the new
>> computer, then install fresh copies of any applications and copy over
>> any files you *really* need. Only install other apps and copy other
>> files as and when you need them ... you'll find a ton of stuff simply
>> isn't needed at all, or can be put on an external drive / thumb drive
>> for occasional access.
> 
> This is a worse idea. For one thing, how many full installers for your apps
> do you have?

Pretty much all of them, including the macOS installers, plus all the 
updaters (and the apps I have installed for clients that I personally 
don't use) - I keep them specifically so that they can be re-installed 
if needed. I've still got installers for applications going way back to 
the System 6 days of the original Mac.



> For another, how much time do you want to spend? Running Migration 
> Assistant is semi-automatic. Installing each app, one at a time, will 
> take _days_.

It'll only take "days" if you've got a ton of apps installed, and if 
you do the likelihood is you don't use most those apps anyway.

I've done this numerous times when updating the MacOS or hardware for 
my own computers and client computers. None have ever take even a whole 
day, let alone "days".

In fact it actually takes far longer to make a backup of the entire 
drive on my Mac in the first place (partly due to all those installers) 
than it does to clean-install the macOS and needed apps.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#120481

In article <q1emai$19fk$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> >>> I am upgrading my 2011 Mac Mini to one of the new models.
> >>> 
> >>> I intend to use the data migration assistant to copy the data over.
> >>> Now the old mini will not run Mojave and will only upgrade to High
> >>> Sierra whereas the new one will come with Mojave.
> >>> 
> >>> I presume this will not be a problem. The new system will stay as
> >>> Mojave with just my data/account added?
> >> 
> >> Don't run Migration Assistant as part of the set-up process.
> > 
> > Running Migration Assistant later is possible but is not advisable. You will
> > complicate your life considerably if you do this.
> 
> Both during and after set-up has pros and cons. The cons of after are 
> fewer than those of during, but as below, a fully clean set-up is even 
> better.

wrong on all counts.





> > For another, how much time do you want to spend? Running Migration 
> > Assistant is semi-automatic. Installing each app, one at a time, will 
> > take _days_.
> 
> It'll only take "days" if you've got a ton of apps installed, and if 
> you do the likelihood is you don't use most those apps anyway.

nonsense. installing even a relatively small number of apps,
re-authenticating, downloading and installing updates, then
reconfiguring everything the way they all used to be (no prefs files to
carry over) takes a lot of time, which adds up very quickly. 

> I've done this numerous times when updating the MacOS or hardware for 
> my own computers and client computers. None have ever take even a whole 
> day, let alone "days".

bullshit. 

you were running 10.2 on a beige g3 until a year or so ago, when it
finally stopped working.

> In fact it actually takes far longer to make a backup of the entire 
> drive on my Mac in the first place (partly due to all those installers) 
> than it does to clean-install the macOS and needed apps.

if you don't already have at least one backup as part of a normal
routine (i.e., no additional time needed), then you have far bigger
problems.

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#120485

On 13 Jan 2019, nospam wrote
(in article<130120190150067075%nospam@nospam.invalid>):

> In article<q1emai$19fk$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
> <YourName@YourISP.com>  wrote:
>
> > > > > I am upgrading my 2011 Mac Mini to one of the new models.
> > > > >
> > > > > I intend to use the data migration assistant to copy the data over.
> > > > > Now the old mini will not run Mojave and will only upgrade to High
> > > > > Sierra whereas the new one will come with Mojave.
> > > > >
> > > > > I presume this will not be a problem. The new system will stay as
> > > > > Mojave with just my data/account added?
> > > >
> > > > Don't run Migration Assistant as part of the set-up process.
> > >
> > > Running Migration Assistant later is possible but is not advisable. You
> > > will
> > > complicate your life considerably if you do this.
> >
> > Both during and after set-up has pros and cons. The cons of after are
> > fewer than those of during, but as below, a fully clean set-up is even
> > better.
>
> wrong on all counts.

He’s got serious issues.
>
>
> > > For another, how much time do you want to spend? Running Migration
> > > Assistant is semi-automatic. Installing each app, one at a time, will
> > > take _days_.
> >
> > It'll only take "days" if you've got a ton of apps installed, and if
> > you do the likelihood is you don't use most those apps anyway.
>
> nonsense. installing even a relatively small number of apps,
> re-authenticating, downloading and installing updates, then
> reconfiguring everything the way they all used to be (no prefs files to
> carry over) takes a lot of time, which adds up very quickly.
And if you’re using apps like MS Office 2011 or earlier, it CANNOT BE DONE 
as Microsoft has turned off the activation servers for Office 2011 and 
earlier. At least the last time I tried to activate a bought and paid for 
copy the activation server wouldn’t work and a shouting match with MS 
NoSupport was unhelpful. Unfortunately it wasn’t one of my machines or a 
machine I administer; the owner had listened to someone like Your Name and 
had done a ‘clean install’ and had totally wiped the machine. Fortunately 
he had made a complete backup prior to doing the wipe (you would not believe 
how many people do a complete wipe but don’t have a backup) so I wiped the 
system again, restored from the backup, and updated the OS. No problems with 
activation because there was no need to reinstall.
>
>
> > I've done this numerous times when updating the MacOS or hardware for
> > my own computers and client computers. None have ever take even a whole
> > day, let alone "days".
>
> bullshit.
>
> you were running 10.2 on a beige g3 until a year or so ago, when it
> finally stopped working.

I’ve got a still working beige G3. I mostly use it to play Harpoon.
>
>
> > In fact it actually takes far longer to make a backup of the entire
> > drive on my Mac in the first place (partly due to all those installers)
> > than it does to clean-install the macOS and needed apps.
>
> if you don't already have at least one backup as part of a normal
> routine (i.e., no additional time needed), then you have far bigger
> problems.

Oh, yeah.

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#120494

In article <0001HW.21EB605F00C9EA3C70000DC042EF@news.supernews.com>,
Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:

> > > I've done this numerous times when updating the MacOS or hardware for
> > > my own computers and client computers. None have ever take even a whole
> > > day, let alone "days".
> >
> > bullshit.
> >
> > you were running 10.2 on a beige g3 until a year or so ago, when it
> > finally stopped working.
> 
> I¹ve got a still working beige G3. I mostly use it to play Harpoon.

the point is that he didn't actually do what he claims, since 10.2
predates migration.

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#120484

On 13 Jan 2019, Your Name wrote
(in article <q1emai$19fk$1@gioia.aioe.org>):

> On 2019-01-13 05:18:48 +0000, Wolffan said:
>
> > On 12 Jan 2019, Your Name wrote
> > (in article <q1c1kf$1nrl$1@gioia.aioe.org>):
> >
> > > On 2019-01-12 05:50:02 +0000, Simple Simon said:
> > > >
> > > > I am upgrading my 2011 Mac Mini to one of the new models.
> > > >
> > > > I intend to use the data migration assistant to copy the data over.
> > > > Now the old mini will not run Mojave and will only upgrade to High
> > > > Sierra whereas the new one will come with Mojave.
> > > >
> > > > I presume this will not be a problem. The new system will stay as
> > > > Mojave with just my data/account added?
> > >
> > > Don't run Migration Assistant as part of the set-up process.
> >
> > Running Migration Assistant later is possible but is not advisable. You will
> > complicate your life considerably if you do this.
>
> Both during and after set-up has pros and cons. The cons of after are
> fewer than those of during, but as below, a fully clean set-up is even
> better.
>
> > > Set-up the new computer first, *then* run Migration Assistant
> > > separately from the Applications->Utilities folder.
> >
> > This is a Very Bad Idea.
> > >
> > >
> > > Even better, don't use Migration Assistant at all. Set-up the new
> > > computer, then install fresh copies of any applications and copy over
> > > any files you *really* need. Only install other apps and copy other
> > > files as and when you need them ... you'll find a ton of stuff simply
> > > isn't needed at all, or can be put on an external drive / thumb drive
> > > for occasional access.
> >
> > This is a worse idea. For one thing, how many full installers for your apps
> > do you have?
>
> Pretty much all of them, including the macOS installers, plus all the
> updaters (and the apps I have installed for clients that I personally
> don't use) - I keep them specifically so that they can be re-installed
> if needed. I've still got installers for applications going way back to
> the System 6 days of the original Mac.

In Christ’s name, WHY? What bloody purpose is there to keep installers for 
apps which can’t run on anything other than decades old equipment? I’ve 
got old Macs, including a beige G3 and a Quadra 840, but nothing that’ll 
run System 6. And there’s no way that I’d fire up installers that old 
even if I had them, that’s what full backups are fore.
>
>
> > For another, how much time do you want to spend? Running Migration
> > Assistant is semi-automatic. Installing each app, one at a time, will
> > take _days_.
>
> It'll only take "days" if you've got a ton of apps installed,

which I do
> and if
> you do the likelihood is you don't use most those apps anyway.

Incorrect. There are apps which I use far more often than others, but the 
only apps which don’t get used at least every few months are my collection 
of old copies of H&R Block tax software. I keep the old ones around to be 
able to access the old tax files using the app which created them, in case 
the IRS gets even more annoying than it already is.
>
>
> I've done this numerous times when updating the MacOS or hardware for
> my own computers and client computers. None have ever take even a whole
> day, let alone "days".

Yeah. Right. I know how long it takes to reinstall and then update to current 
standards app suites such as MS Office and Adobe Creative Suite... oh, wait, 
you _can’t_ install and update Adobe Creative Suite or older versions of MS 
Office any more, the activation servers are turned off for them. Restoring 
from a full backup allows me to put ‘em back onto systems, no muss, no 
fuss, no activation needed. Reinstalling requires activation. Which is no 
longer possible.
>
>
> In fact it actually takes far longer to make a backup of the entire
> drive on my Mac in the first place (partly due to all those installers)
> than it does to clean-install the macOS and needed apps.

I run backups of all my systems automatically. Carbon Copy Cloner runs every 
night at 02:00. The first time it runs on a particular machine, it can take 
hours... but I’m asleep and don’t care. When I wake up, I check to see if 
there were errors in the backup; if so, I fix them. (No errors today 
according to CCC’s logs. No errors since July last year, in fact, and that 
error took less than 15 minutes to fix.) I then disconnect the backup drives. 
If you don’t have at least one full, _bootable_ backup, you’re living in 
a fool’s paradise.

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#120490

On 2019-01-13, Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
>> I've still got installers for applications going way back to
>> the System 6 days of the original Mac.
>
> In Christ’s name, WHY? What bloody purpose is there to keep installers for 
> apps which can’t run on anything other than decades old equipment? I’ve 
> got old Macs, including a beige G3 and a Quadra 840, but nothing that’ll 
> run System 6. And there’s no way that I’d fire up installers that old 
> even if I had them, that’s what full backups are fore.

I have a huge archive of installers on my 48TB Drobo array going back
decades. The Mac folder alone is ~630GB in size. I also keep old
equipment running or in storage for nostalgic and sentimental reasons.
My very first Mac, a Mac SE my late father bought named Zippy, still runs:

<http://zippy.kicks-ass.org:9997>

I've got an Apple IIe, a Lisa with its 40 MB ProFile external drive and
spare parts, several other beige Macs, and others in my small
collection. I could open a small museum if I wanted to. : ) 

> I run backups of all my systems automatically. Carbon Copy Cloner runs every 
> night at 02:00. The first time it runs on a particular machine, it can take 
> hours... but I’m asleep and don’t care. When I wake up, I check to see if 
> there were errors in the backup; if so, I fix them. (No errors today 
> according to CCC’s logs. No errors since July last year, in fact, and that 
> error took less than 15 minutes to fix.) I then disconnect the backup drives. 
> If you don’t have at least one full, _bootable_ backup, you’re living in 
> a fool’s paradise.

I wouldn't advise booting on a volume that holds your precious
backup data since by doing so you risk data loss. If your hard drive
dies, replace it, boot into macOS Recovery, install macOS on the new
drive, then migrate your data from the backup drive when prompted.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#120501

On 2019-01-13 11:48:38 +0000, Wolffan said:
> On 13 Jan 2019, Your Name wrote
> (in article <q1emai$19fk$1@gioia.aioe.org>):
>> On 2019-01-13 05:18:48 +0000, Wolffan said:
>>> On 12 Jan 2019, Your Name wrote
>>> (in article <q1c1kf$1nrl$1@gioia.aioe.org>):
>>>> On 2019-01-12 05:50:02 +0000, Simple Simon said:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am upgrading my 2011 Mac Mini to one of the new models.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I intend to use the data migration assistant to copy the data over.
>>>>> Now the old mini will not run Mojave and will only upgrade to High
>>>>> Sierra whereas the new one will come with Mojave.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I presume this will not be a problem. The new system will stay as
>>>>> Mojave with just my data/account added?
>>>> 
>>>> Don't run Migration Assistant as part of the set-up process.
>>> 
>>> Running Migration Assistant later is possible but is not advisable. You will
>>> complicate your life considerably if you do this.
>> 
>> Both during and after set-up has pros and cons. The cons of after are
>> fewer than those of during, but as below, a fully clean set-up is even
>> better.
>> 
>>>> Set-up the new computer first, *then* run Migration Assistant
>>>> separately from the Applications->Utilities folder.
>>> 
>>> This is a Very Bad Idea.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Even better, don't use Migration Assistant at all. Set-up the new
>>>> computer, then install fresh copies of any applications and copy over
>>>> any files you *really* need. Only install other apps and copy other
>>>> files as and when you need them ... you'll find a ton of stuff simply
>>>> isn't needed at all, or can be put on an external drive / thumb drive
>>>> for occasional access.
>>> 
>>> This is a worse idea. For one thing, how many full installers for your apps
>>> do you have?
>> 
>> Pretty much all of them, including the macOS installers, plus all the
>> updaters (and the apps I have installed for clients that I personally
>> don't use) - I keep them specifically so that they can be re-installed
>> if needed. I've still got installers for applications going way back to
>> the System 6 days of the original Mac.
> 
> In Christ’s name, WHY? What bloody purpose is there to keep installers for
> apps which can’t run on anything other than decades old equipment? I’ve
> got old Macs, including a beige G3 and a Quadra 840, but nothing that’ll
> run System 6. And there’s no way that I’d fire up installers that old
> even if I had them, that’s what full backups are fore.

Even if you don't have an actual old Mac, there's a little thing called 
emulation. The old Mac community is relatively thriving ... just look 
at places like MacintoshGarden.org.


>> I've done this numerous times when updating the MacOS or hardware for
>> my own computers and client computers. None have ever take even a whole
>> day, let alone "days".
> 
> Yeah. Right. I know how long it takes to reinstall and then update to current
> standards app suites such as MS Office and Adobe Creative Suite...

It only took a couple of hours for me to clean install and update 
Mojave, MS Office, and Adobe CC.


> oh, wait, you _can’t_ install and update Adobe Creative Suite or older 
> versions of MS Office any more, the activation servers are turned off 
> for them. Restoring from a full backup allows me to put ‘em back onto 
> systems, no muss, no fuss, no activation needed. Reinstalling requires 
> activation. Which is no
> longer possible.

A.  If you're updating to newer hardware / macOS, then it's likely the old
    apps won't work or may not funciton properly anyway.

B.  Old versions MS Office doesn't require activation servers, other than
    putting in the license code from the CD label. I haven't noticed that
    newer versions need it either.

C.  I have the installers for the old versions of Adobe apps which don't
    require activation. You can download them from Adobe's website - they
    made them available specifically for people who needed to re-install
    them after the activation servers were turned off.



>> In fact it actually takes far longer to make a backup of the entire
>> drive on my Mac in the first place (partly due to all those installers)
>> than it does to clean-install the macOS and needed apps.
> 
> I run backups of all my systems automatically. Carbon Copy Cloner runs every
> night at 02:00. The first time it runs on a particular machine, it can take
> hours...

That's why I said "in the first place".



> but I’m asleep and don’t care. When I wake up, I check to see if
> there were errors in the backup; if so, I fix them. (No errors today
> according to CCC’s logs. No errors since July last year, in fact, and that
> error took less than 15 minutes to fix.) I then disconnect the backup drives.
> If you don’t have at least one full, _bootable_ backup, you’re living in
> a fool’s paradise.

I never said I didn't backup. I don't like Time Machine's space-wasting 
"keep a copy of every old edited version of files", so I use Carbon 
Copy Cloner to do a regular syncing instead.

But, having recently had to revert to a backup copy of a drive, I can 
tell you that CCC does not make a *full* clone. All the files are there 
(as well as the reinstall partition), but it does have a few bugs that 
mean some things aren't exactly the same as the original - custom drive 
icons pasted into the Get Info window go missing being one example.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#120504

In article <q1g66o$jb$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:


> >> I've done this numerous times when updating the MacOS or hardware for
> >> my own computers and client computers. None have ever take even a whole
> >> day, let alone "days".
> > 
> > Yeah. Right. I know how long it takes to reinstall and then update to
> > current
> > standards app suites such as MS Office and Adobe Creative Suite...
> 
> It only took a couple of hours for me to clean install and update 
> Mojave, MS Office, and Adobe CC.

except that's only two suites, and it requires you to be there every
step of the way. unless you only use just those two (not likely),
there's a shitload more installs to do.

with migration, start the process and go do something else. come back
in a couple of hours and it's done.

> > oh, wait, you _can¹t_ install and update Adobe Creative Suite or older 
> > versions of MS Office any more, the activation servers are turned off 
> > for them. Restoring from a full backup allows me to put Œem back onto 
> > systems, no muss, no fuss, no activation needed. Reinstalling requires 
> > activation. Which is no
> > longer possible.
> 
> A.  If you're updating to newer hardware / macOS, then it's likely the old
>     apps won't work or may not funciton properly anyway.

wrong. it's likely the old apps *will* work. only a few will not.

> B.  Old versions MS Office doesn't require activation servers, other than
>     putting in the license code from the CD label. I haven't noticed that
>     newer versions need it either.

versions that old won't run anymore.

> C.  I have the installers for the old versions of Adobe apps which don't
>     require activation. You can download them from Adobe's website - they
>     made them available specifically for people who needed to re-install
>     them after the activation servers were turned off.

that's *only* for cs2, and *only* for those who legitimately purchased
it.

and you still have to go through the install process anyway.


> >> In fact it actually takes far longer to make a backup of the entire
> >> drive on my Mac in the first place (partly due to all those installers)
> >> than it does to clean-install the macOS and needed apps.
> > 
> > I run backups of all my systems automatically. Carbon Copy Cloner runs every
> > night at 02:00. The first time it runs on a particular machine, it can take
> > hours...
> 
> That's why I said "in the first place".

which would have been done long before an upgrade.

worst case, it's a few minutes to bring the backup current, since it
will only copy changed files, not the entire thing.

> 
> > but I¹m asleep and don¹t care. When I wake up, I check to see if
> > there were errors in the backup; if so, I fix them. (No errors today
> > according to CCC¹s logs. No errors since July last year, in fact, and that
> > error took less than 15 minutes to fix.) I then disconnect the backup
> > drives.
> > If you don¹t have at least one full, _bootable_ backup, you¹re living in
> > a fool¹s paradise.
> 
> I never said I didn't backup.

yes you did, since you said 'it actually takes far longer to make a 
backup of the entire drive', which means you don't have one.

if you did, it would be at the most, a few minutes to make sure it's up
to date.

> I don't like Time Machine's space-wasting 
> "keep a copy of every old edited version of files", so I use Carbon 
> Copy Cloner to do a regular syncing instead.

that means if you delete a file, it's gone. if you modify a file and
want an older version, it's gone. if a file is corrupted, the older
valid version is gone.

two different designs, for different failure modes.

> But, having recently had to revert to a backup copy of a drive, I can 
> tell you that CCC does not make a *full* clone. 

nonsense. it definitely does, other than a few items that should not be
cloned, as per apple's recommendations, because they should be
regenerated when the clone is used.

simple example: there's no point in copying virtual memory swap files.

> All the files are there 
> (as well as the reinstall partition), but it does have a few bugs that 
> mean some things aren't exactly the same as the original - custom drive 
> icons pasted into the Get Info window go missing being one example.

complete nonsense.

you fucked something up.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#120489

On 2019-01-13, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> On 2019-01-13 05:18:48 +0000, Wolffan said:
>
>> On 12 Jan 2019, Your Name wrote
>> (in article <q1c1kf$1nrl$1@gioia.aioe.org>):
>> 
>>> On 2019-01-12 05:50:02 +0000, Simple Simon said:
>>>> 
>>>> I am upgrading my 2011 Mac Mini to one of the new models.
>>>> 
>>>> I intend to use the data migration assistant to copy the data over.
>>>> Now the old mini will not run Mojave and will only upgrade to High
>>>> Sierra whereas the new one will come with Mojave.
>>>> 
>>>> I presume this will not be a problem. The new system will stay as
>>>> Mojave with just my data/account added?
>>> 
>>> Don't run Migration Assistant as part of the set-up process.
>> 
>> Running Migration Assistant later is possible but is not advisable. You will
>> complicate your life considerably if you do this.
>
> Both during and after set-up has pros and cons. The cons of after are 
> fewer than those of during, but as below, a fully clean set-up is even 
> better.

Incorrect. It's best to allow the installer's setup assistant to migrate
the data right after the installation, as Apple advises.

> In fact it actually takes far longer to make a backup of the entire 
> drive on my Mac in the first place 

Nah. Use Time Machine and you'll already have a full backup of
everything you need. You can migrate your data from your Time Machine
backup when prompted by the setup assistant as well.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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