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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #71700 > unrolled thread

Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies

Started byMichelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
First post2015-03-20 17:03 -0700
Last post2015-03-22 15:48 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 175 — 17 participants

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Contents

  Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-20 17:03 -0700
    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-20 20:28 -0400
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 14:38 +1100
    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 13:55 +1100
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-20 20:59 -0700
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 16:51 +1100
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-21 07:53 -0700
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:19 +1100
    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-03-21 09:57 +0000
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-21 09:06 -0400
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 13:11 -0400
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:51 +1100
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 15:10 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 06:24 +1100
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-21 17:49 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 21:10 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:18 +0000
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 10:57 -0400
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-21 15:01 +0000
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2015-03-21 16:20 +0000
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 12:38 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2015-03-21 17:18 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:55 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 17:15 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:04 +0000
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 10:11 -0400
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 14:16 +0000
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 22:29 +0000
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 13:40 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:32 +1100
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-21 15:08 -0700
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:02 +0000
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-21 17:46 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:19 +0000
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-22 09:52 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 14:12 +0000
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 05:00 +1100
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-22 18:58 -0400
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 23:32 +0000
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:30 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 01:20 +0000
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 21:10 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-23 09:47 -0500
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-22 22:48 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 02:50 +0000
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:54 +1100
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:31 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-23 14:20 -0400
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 05:53 +1100
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 19:05 +0000
                          Apple Watch Kills; was: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2015-03-24 10:20 -0700
                            Re: Apple Watch Kills; was: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-24 19:06 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 02:35 +0000
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:22 +1100
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 17:15 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 12:17 +1100
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 13:03 -0400
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:44 +1100
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-03-21 21:57 +0000
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:14 +0000
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 13:54 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 05:14 +1100
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 14:38 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 05:54 +1100
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 15:09 -0400
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 06:24 +1100
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 17:15 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 09:00 +1100
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:06 -0400
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 11:24 +1100
                              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 21:10 -0400
                                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:43 +1100
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 02:33 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 23:26 +0000
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:28 -0400
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 20:30 -0400
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 21:06 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:40 +1100
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 01:12 +0000
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 21:23 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 21:26 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 01:46 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:52 +1100
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 22:22 -0400
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:49 +1100
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:25 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:33 -0400
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 14:08 -0400
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-23 14:09 -0400
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 18:33 +0000
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 05:49 +1100
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:37 +1100
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 22:15 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 02:29 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:43 +1100
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:18 +0000
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 13:30 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 05:44 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-23 15:04 -0400
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 15:16 -0400
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 19:33 +0000
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 15:51 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 19:59 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 07:07 +1100
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 16:36 -0400
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 08:37 +1100
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 21:45 +0000
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-03-24 10:51 +1300
                              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 18:43 -0400
                                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 22:56 +0000
                                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 10:29 +1100
                                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-24 05:36 +0000
                              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-24 01:47 -0400
                                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 19:44 +1100
                                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-24 15:04 +0000
                            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-24 05:35 +0000
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 07:02 +1100
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 23:05 +0000
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:19 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 00:36 +0000
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 21:18 -0400
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 01:36 +0000
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 22:12 -0400
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 22:20 -0400
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 02:30 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 02:24 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:39 +1100
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2015-03-22 20:05 -0700
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 23:46 -0400
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 15:00 +1100
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 14:52 +1100
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-23 00:10 -0400
                          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 18:58 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 13:41 +0000
                        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 18:52 +0000
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:48 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:33 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:13 +0000
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 02:29 +0000
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:59 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies News <News@Group.Post> - 2015-03-23 13:14 -0400
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 01:39 +0000
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 00:52 -0400
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 02:11 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 17:44 +1100
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 06:22 +0000
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 02:40 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 22:17 +0000
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 17:28 +1100
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 02:47 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 17:56 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 04:09 -0400
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 19:14 +1100
                    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 04:47 -0400
                      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 20:40 +1100
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-22 08:49 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:38 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 04:38 +1100
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 22:23 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:13 -0400
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:30 +1100
                  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:11 +0000
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-22 08:43 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:36 +0000
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 04:31 +1100
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:24 +0000
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 14:04 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 05:25 +1100
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 23:15 +0000
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 02:40 +0000
    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-21 09:02 -0400
    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-21 11:43 -0500
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:10 +0000
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-22 10:33 -0500
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 15:48 +0000

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#71966

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-03-23 19:33 +0000
Message-ID<cnb84aFne46U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#71965
On 2015-03-23, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 15-03-23 15:04, D.F. Manno wrote:
>
>> Outside of marketing departments, you may be the only person in the 
>> world who thinks banks have _too little_ information on their customers.
>
> This isn't about what info a bank has on a customer. It is about the
> customer authenticaing him/herself sufficiently to confirm he is the one
> actiavting a card on Apple Pay.

For the vast majority of Apple Pay users, its sufficient, as evidenced
by the fact that their cards are added with the information provided by
Apple.

> If banks have to take supplemetary measures such as forcinfg you to
> insteall their proprietary apps, then it means that Apple Pay does not
> supply sufficient information to allow the bank to authenticate that you
> are the rightful owner of the card.

Right! It couldn't possibly be because the information provided doesn't
match bank records, or that some external flag has been raised by the
bank for a group of accounts, or any of the other thousands of potential
reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with the amount or quality of
information provided by Apple Pay. 

No! JF Mezie doesn't consider any of those to be valid and ignores them
so that he can focus only on his own dreamed-up explanations that make
Apple look like it is failing in some regard. It's what he does. He's a
very predictable troll. 

Troll on, trollboi.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#71967

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2015-03-23 15:51 -0400
Message-ID<55106ed4$0$46923$c3e8da3$aae71a0a@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#71966
On 15-03-23 15:33, Jolly Roger wrote:

> For the vast majority of Apple Pay users, its sufficient, as evidenced
> by the fact that their cards are added with the information provided by
> Apple.

Since you are one who argues anyone without facts to back their
statements is a troll,  I shall challenge you to uphold your own
standards and provide facts for the above.

And you might as well also investigate whether it is true of not that
Chase requires the custoemr install its onw proprietary app as a
requirement to activate a Chase card on Apple Pay. Your "vast majority"
claim would depend on whether Chase is a small rural bank or some
national bank with millions of customers.

BTW, do USA banks still need the "N.A." in their name when they operate
across multiple states ? When was that requirement removed ? (N.A. was
"National Association" since a bank had to be its own entity in each
state before).

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#71968

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-03-23 19:59 +0000
Message-ID<cnb9kfFne46U3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#71967
On 2015-03-23, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 15-03-23 15:33, Jolly Roger wrote:
>
> Since you are one who argues anyone without facts to back their
> statements is a troll,  I shall challenge you to uphold your own
> standards and provide facts for the above.

Nice try, but *you* are the one who has claimed time and again that the
information Apple provides is insufficient. And you have yet to provide
facts backing up your assertion.

You've also claimed more than a couple times that the only information
Apple sends is the information on the physical credit card, which is an
outright lie. The onus is therefore on you to prove your assertion that
Apple is not providing sufficient information. 

I won't hold my breath.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#71970

From"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
Date2015-03-24 07:07 +1100
Message-ID<cnbablFo6t9U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#71967
JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote
> Jolly Roger wrote

>> For the vast majority of Apple Pay users, its sufficient,
>> as evidenced by the fact that their cards are added
>> with the information provided by Apple.

> Since you are one who argues anyone without facts to back
> their statements is a troll,  I shall challenge you to uphold
> your own standards and provide facts for the above.

Its completely trivial to ask those you know what
they have had to do to add a card to applepay.
Harder for someone like you who isn't in the US tho.

> And you might as well also investigate whether it is true of not
> that Chase requires the custoemr install its onw proprietary app
> as a requirement to activate a Chase card on Apple Pay.

It doesn’t appear to be the case now and its far from clear if it ever was.

> Your "vast majority" claim would depend on whether Chase is a
> small rural bank or some national bank with millions of customers.

Not when they don’t require the app to be used.
 

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#71973

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2015-03-23 16:36 -0400
Message-ID<5510793d$0$42816$c3e8da3$9deca2c3@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#71970
On 15-03-23 16:07, Rod Speed wrote:

> It doesn’t appear to be the case now and its far from clear if it ever was.

Which is why those who accuse me of being a troll and refuse to provide
actual evidence should have as much credibility as what they accuse me
of having.

I have posted the link to the official Apple web site enough times
already which states only the information from picture of card is sent.

 And have yet to see a link that shows the EXACT information that Apple
sends to banks when a request to activate card on Apple Pay is made.

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#71977

From"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
Date2015-03-24 08:37 +1100
Message-ID<cnbff3FpjbqU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#71973
JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>> It doesn’t appear to be the case now and its far from clear if it ever 
>> was.

> Which is why those who accuse me of being a troll
> and refuse to provide actual evidence should have
> as much credibility as what they accuse me of having.

They do/don’t.

> I have posted the link to the official Apple web site enough times
> already which states only the information from picture of card is sent.

No it does not. It ACTUALLY says that that is what is entered into
the phone, either manually, or via the camera. It does NOT say
that nothing but that is sent to the bank and in fact on that other
apple web site page you keep having your nose rubbed in it says
very explicitly indeed that apple sends a lot more than just the
name on the card, the number on the card and the CVV on the card.

> And have yet to see a link that shows the EXACT information that Apple
> sends to banks when a request to activate card on Apple Pay is made.

Because, as you keep being told that would allow those who want to
add someone else's card to applepay to get it into the green channel
so it would be waved thru without question by the bank.

Apple isn't that stupid, even if you are. 

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#71978

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-03-23 21:45 +0000
Message-ID<cnbfsgFpgdnU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#71973
On 2015-03-23, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>
> I have posted the link to the official Apple web site enough times
> already which states only the information from picture of card is sent.

That's a lie. It doesn't state that only information from the card is
sent to banks:

<http://www.apple.com/iphone-6/apple-pay>

"To get started, you can add the credit or debit card from your iTunes
account to Passbook by simply entering the card security code. To add a
new card on iPhone, use your iSight camera to enter your card
information. Or simply type it in manually."

It doesn't say anything at all is sent to banks. You're making shit up,
as usual.

>  And have yet to see a link that shows the EXACT information that Apple
> sends to banks when a request to activate card on Apple Pay is made.

I and others have shown you where Apple says that more information is
sent; but you ignore it because you want to continue to tell your lies.
Anyone with an average IQ can read the iOS security guide and other
Apple documents to see how big of a liar you are on this. Yet you
continue to tell these lies - because it's what you do.

Troll on, trollboi.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#71980

Fromdempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson)
Date2015-03-24 10:51 +1300
Message-ID<1m1saiv.gn7u1c12rsjhhN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>
In reply to#71973
JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> On 15-03-23 16:07, Rod Speed wrote:
> 
> > It doesn't appear to be the case now and its far from clear if it ever was.
> 
> Which is why those who accuse me of being a troll and refuse to provide
> actual evidence should have as much credibility as what they accuse me
> of having.
> 
> I have posted the link to the official Apple web site enough times
> already which states only the information from picture of card is sent.

What page is that? I assume you are referring to this one, which you did
mention earlier (twice):

http://www.apple.com/iphone-6/apple-pay/

It says no such thing. It doesn't go into any detail at all about what
gets sent. It just describes what the user does to initiate the process
for adding an additional card.

It is a marketing document, providing a simple overview for end users.

If you want to see more detailed information, then look at Apple's
support articles on Apple Pay. Here are the first three relevant ones I
found via a Google search:

Setup and Use Apple Pay
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201239

Apple Pay FAQ
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201469

Apple Pay security and privacy overview
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203027

All three of these documents give the same story, with varying levels of
detail. The first one:

[quote]
Add a new card using your device's iSight camera
1       On iPhone, if you don't have any cards or passes, tap Set Up
Apple Pay. If you do have cards or passes, pull down your pass stack and
tap  in the upper right corner. On iPad, tap Add Credit or Debit Card.
2       Select Use a Different Credit or Debit Card.
3       On the Card Details screen, tap . You can also enter your card
information manually.
4       Position your card in the frame to capture the card information.
5       Enter the security code and any other information that doesn't
automatically appear.
6       Tap Next. Your bank will verify your information and decide if
you can add your card to Apple Pay. If they need more information,
you'll get instructions on how to provide additional verification. You
can verify your card anytime after you've added it to Passbook. Just
return to Passbook and follow the instructions.
7       After your card is verified, tap Next. Your card is ready for
Apple Pay.
[end quote]

Note step 6. It also doesn't say what gets sent, but does point out that
the bank may require additional verification.

The second document says this, which doesn't add anything to the first
one:

[quote]
If you have a credit or debit card from a participating bank on file
with iTunes, you'll be prompted to add it to Passbook. You can also
choose to add a different card using the iSight camera or by entering
your card information manually. Then your bank will decide whether to
approve adding your card to Apple Pay. They might ask you to provide
more information to complete the verification process.
[end quote]

The third document says the same thing, with some more detail about what
gets sent:

[quote]
When you add a credit or debit card to Apple Pay, the information that
you enter on your device by typing or using the iSight camera is
encrypted and sent to Apple servers. If you use the camera to enter the
card information, the information is never saved to the device or stored
to the photo library. Apple decrypts the data, determines your card's
payment network, and re-encrypts the data with a key that only your
payment network can unlock. Then it sends the encrypted data, along with
other information about your iTunes account activity and device (such as
the name of your device, its current location, or if you have a long
history of transactions within iTunes) to your bank. Using this
information, your bank will determine whether to approve adding your
card to Apple Pay.
[end quote]

>  And have yet to see a link that shows the EXACT information that Apple
> sends to banks when a request to activate card on Apple Pay is made.

Apple hasn't published a full list that I know of, but the security
document at least gives a general overview of the sort of additional
data which is being sent:

"other information about your iTunes account activity and device (such
as the name of your device, its current location, or if you have a long
history of transactions within iTunes)".

Which is exactly what JR and others have been telling you repeatedly.
-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#71983

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2015-03-23 18:43 -0400
Message-ID<55109727$0$58685$c3e8da3$88b277c5@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#71980
On 15-03-23 17:51, David Empson wrote:


> Setup and Use Apple Pay
> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201239
> 
> Apple Pay FAQ
> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201469
> 
> Apple Pay security and privacy overview
> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203027

Thanks. I'll read them when I come back home. Others said that releasing
that information would helpo thieves so they refused to provide the links.

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#71984

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-03-23 22:56 +0000
Message-ID<cnbk1dFpqe9U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#71983
On 2015-03-23, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 15-03-23 17:51, David Empson wrote:
>
>
>> Setup and Use Apple Pay
>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201239
>> 
>> Apple Pay FAQ
>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201469
>> 
>> Apple Pay security and privacy overview
>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203027
>
> Thanks. I'll read them when I come back home. Others said that releasing
> that information would helpo thieves so they refused to provide the links.

Liar. Links were provided as well as direct quotes. And the documents in
question have been named and are easily found with a simple web search.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#71987

From"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
Date2015-03-24 10:29 +1100
Message-ID<cnbm0eFr7bjU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#71983

"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote in message 
news:55109727$0$58685$c3e8da3$88b277c5@news.astraweb.com...
> On 15-03-23 17:51, David Empson wrote:
>
>
>> Setup and Use Apple Pay
>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201239
>>
>> Apple Pay FAQ
>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201469
>>
>> Apple Pay security and privacy overview
>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203027
>
> Thanks. I'll read them when I come back home.

> Others said that releasing that information would
> helpo thieves so they refused to provide the links.

No they did not. They ACTUALLY said that Apple
is deliberately vague in those statements so that
those statements don’t help the thieves. 

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#71990

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2015-03-24 05:36 +0000
Message-ID<slrnmh1u17.1cn3.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#71983
Okay, so one time? In band camp? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> was all, like:
> On 15-03-23 17:51, David Empson wrote:


>> Setup and Use Apple Pay
>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201239
>> 
>> Apple Pay FAQ
>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201469
>> 
>> Apple Pay security and privacy overview
>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203027

> Thanks. I'll read them when I come back home. Others said that releasing
> that information would helpo thieves so they refused to provide the links.

You disgusting pile of vomit. Those links have been posted in this
thread repeatedly by several people. STOP. LYING.

-- 
http://2blog.kreme.com
she [Esk] was already learning that if you ignore the rules people will,
half the time, quietly rewrite them so they don't apply to you. --Equal
Rites

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#71992

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2015-03-24 01:47 -0400
Message-ID<5510fa6d$0$45883$b1db1813$7968482@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#71980
On 15-03-23 17:51, David Empson wrote:

> Setup and Use Apple Pay
> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201239
> 
> Apple Pay FAQ
> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201469
> 
> Apple Pay security and privacy overview
> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203027

So I have read those and didn't learn anything except that Apple puts in
black and white the notion that after making the request, the bank has
some means to display a message to the user requesting that use take
extra steps to conclude the process.

As a customer, these documents do not spell out what private information
about me Apple transmits along with any card being registered.

So when Apple comes to Canada, we'll how how that changes.

The rumours of Apple sending last 4 digits of a phone number ( is that
the phone number Passbook obtains from the phone's SIM card, or a phone
number on iTunes account details ?, and the device ID are rather
insufficient to verify an account.

In the case of activating the card of record in the iTunes account,
Apple can vouch that the card is associated to an iTunes account which
is associated with that phone. So this prevents activating that card on
a thief's phone.


> "other information about your iTunes account activity and device (such
> as the name of your device, its current location, or if you have a long
> history of transactions within iTunes)".

SUCH AS is the operative word, it is not an authoritative list.


> Which is exactly what JR and others have been telling you repeatedly.

JR does not have any credibility, all he does is insult and pulls
information out of his hat to insult people and no intelligent
conversation can be had with him/her/it.

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#71995

From"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
Date2015-03-24 19:44 +1100
Message-ID<cncmgbF3udhU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#71992
JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote
> David Empson wrote

>> Setup and Use Apple Pay
>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201239

>> Apple Pay FAQ
>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201469

>> Apple Pay security and privacy overview
>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203027

> So I have read those and didn't learn anything except that Apple
> puts in black and white the notion that after making the request,
> the bank has some means to display a message to the user
> requesting that use take extra steps to conclude the process.

You're lying now. Apple clearly says that they do in fact
send MORE than is shown in the physical card to the bank.

And clearly Apple says quite explicitly that its that extra
data Apple says they give to the bank that allows the
bank to decide how to tread the card, wave it thru as
a green card, decide that it’s a yellow card and ask for
more information from the card holder to see if it is
actually the card holder adding the card to applepay
IF THE BANK DECIDES TO DO THAT, and to decide
it’s a red can and just reject the card from applepay.

> As a customer, these documents do not spell out what private information
> about me Apple transmits along with any card being registered.

Yes, because if they were actually stupid enough to do
that, those attempting to fraud applepay would find it
MUCH easier to do that. Apple isn't actually that stupid.

> So when Apple comes to Canada, we'll how how that changes.

It won't, you watch.

> The rumours of Apple sending last 4 digits of a phone number
> ( is that the phone number Passbook obtains from the phone's
> SIM card, or a phone number on iTunes account details ?, and
> the device ID are rather insufficient to verify an account.

WRONG when the bank already has that number.

> In the case of activating the card of record in the iTunes
> account, Apple can vouch that the card is associated to
> an iTunes account which is associated with that phone.
> So this prevents activating that card on a thief's phone.

>> "other information about your iTunes account activity and
>> device (such as the name of your device, its current location,
>> or if you have a long history of transactions within iTunes)".

> SUCH AS is the operative word, it is not an authoritative list.

Yes, because if they were actually stupid enough to do
that, those attempting to fraud applepay would find it
MUCH easier to do that. Apple isn't actually that stupid.

>> Which is exactly what JR and others have been telling you repeatedly.

> JR does not have any credibility,

You don’t have any at all, you can't even
read and comprehend those links above.

> all he does is insult and pulls information out of his hat

He does a lot more than that.

> to insult people

Yes, he does insult people like you who are too
stupid to understand even the most basic stuff.

> and no intelligent conversation can be had with him/her/it.

That is a bare faced lie. 

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#72001

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-03-24 15:04 +0000
Message-ID<cndconF8e8sU5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#71992
On 2015-03-24, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 15-03-23 17:51, David Empson wrote:
>
>> Setup and Use Apple Pay
>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201239
>> 
>> Apple Pay FAQ
>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201469
>> 
>> Apple Pay security and privacy overview
>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203027
>
> So I have read those and didn't learn anything except that Apple puts in
> black and white the notion that after making the request, the bank has
> some means to display a message to the user requesting that use take
> extra steps to conclude the process.

Then you didn't learn much, because it also says Apple sends more
information than just what is on the card, as you have repeatedly
claimed:

"Apple decrypts the data, determines your card's payment network, and
re-encrypts the data with a key that only your payment network can
unlock. Then it sends the encrypted data, *along* *with* *other*
*information* about your iTunes account activity and device (such as the
name of your device, its current location, or if you have a long history
of transactions within iTunes) to your bank."

>> "other information about your iTunes account activity and device (such
>> as the name of your device, its current location, or if you have a long
>> history of transactions within iTunes)".
>
> SUCH AS is the operative word, it is not an authoritative list.

This, coming from the dolt who repeatedly claims the only information
Apple sends to banks is what is printed on the card itself! You can't
even keep up with your own lies.

>> Which is exactly what JR and others have been telling you repeatedly.
>
> JR does not have any credibility

You have no basis on which to judge credibility. And I don't need to
insult you when you do a fine job of insulting yourself regularly.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#71989

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2015-03-24 05:35 +0000
Message-ID<slrnmh1ttu.1cn3.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#71973
Okay, so one time? In band camp? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> was all, like:
> On 15-03-23 16:07, Rod Speed wrote:

>> It doesn’t appear to be the case now and its far from clear if it ever was.

> Which is why those who accuse me of being a troll and refuse to provide
> actual evidence should have as much credibility as what they accuse me
> of having.

Numerous people have provided reems of evidence that you continue to ignore.

> I have posted the link to the official Apple web site enough times
> already which states only the information from picture of card is sent.

You are a lying sack of shit. Lying through misinformation, obfuscation,
misstatments, and actual bare-faced lies.

>  And have yet to see a link that shows the EXACT information that Apple
> sends to banks when a request to activate card on Apple Pay is made.

And you *never* will.


-- 
http://2blog.kreme.com
'I thought dwarfs didn't believe in devils and demons and stuff like
that.' 'That's true, but... we're not sure if they know.'

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#71969

From"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
Date2015-03-24 07:02 +1100
Message-ID<cnb9smFo2thU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#71965
JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote
> D.F. Manno wrote

>> Outside of marketing departments, you may
>> be the only person in the world who thinks banks
>> have _too little_ information on their customers.

> This isn't about what info a bank has on a customer. It is
> about the customer authenticaing him/herself sufficiently
> to confirm he is the one actiavting a card on Apple Pay.

That's just ONE way of doing it. It makes a LOT more sense
to do it the other way, notify all card holders when their
card has been added to ApplePay so they can have the
card cancelled if someone else did that with their card.

> If banks have to take supplemetary measures such
> as forcinfg you to insteall their proprietary apps,

You don’t have any evidence that any bank does.

> then it means that Apple Pay does not supply sufficient
> information to allow the bank to authenticate that you
> are the rightful owner of the card.

WRONG.

ALL that means is that that particular bank
has chosen to do the authentication that way
because its cheaper to do it that way and has
the other advantage for the bank of getting
their app onto your phone.

I don’t personally think that that is actually a
great idea because it does allow a thief to see
which bank you use and that isn't ideal particularly
if you don’t have a fingerprint phone and choose
not to secure it with a fancy pin because of the
hassle that causes with normal use of the phone. 

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#71847

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-03-22 23:05 +0000
Message-ID<cn905sF5ssnU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#71819
On 2015-03-22, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 15-03-22 09:14, Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>> Nope. The cards in question have already been stolen, but were not
>> deactivated by banks. The banks already worked with Apple to handle such
>> cards by categorizing them as "Yellow Path".
>
> There is no debate that Apple is not at fault if a bank agrees to
> activate a stolen card on Apple Pay.
>
> However, for a card that is not YET declared stolen, having full
> customer details sent in with card activation request would allow a bank
> to verify that it is the rightful owner automatically instead of having
> to do its own steps to contact customer to verify identity.

Some banks are having fraud problems, while other banks are identifying
their customers with the same set of information Apple is giving all
banks. So the problem doesn't seem to be a lack of information since the
other banks have no problem with it.

> Yes it is the bank's fault if it accepts to activate a card with only
> card number , name ane expiration.
>
> However, that system was designed by Apple

You are lying. Much more information than that is used. Some of that
information has been reported to us and some has not.

> who brags about how secure Apple Pay is.

It *is* very secure. 

> Yet, the activation process, as designed by Apple is very
> insecure

Bullshit. The Yellow Path procedures are defined by the banks, not
Apple. 

> and incomplete and has to be supplememted by a extra bank
> process

Bullshit. The banks and Apple both worked together to define the way
Apple Pay categorizes transactions into Green, Yellow, and Red Paths, 
and banks agreed to define and handle Yellow Path provisioning processes
themselves. Some banks did it well and have low fraud rates while others
did not do it well (some asking for only the last four of the card
holder's social security numbers!) and therefore have high fraud rates.
It's that simple.

> to verify identity when that could have been embedded into the
> Passport app.

Nope. When information given by a person does not match the information
the bank has on file, there is nothing Apple can do to help, and the
banks agreed that they would take it upon themselves to contact
customers to resolve any discrepancies. Apple has nothing at all to do
with that process.

> So Apple Pay is like a Pinto.  You can decide to not drive one because
> it is insecure. You can decide to implement your own extra security such
> as ensuring nobody drives in your back to cause gas tank to explode, or
> you can choose to ride on GM's marketing that the Pinto is safe and
> ignore the high risk of explosion.

More bullshit. Apple Pay is secure.  The procedures *some* banks are
using to verify identities and accounts is inadequate and results in
fraudulent use of the Apple Pay system, which banks have agreed to be
100% responsible for.

> Yeah, banks who did not supplement Apple's system have only themselves
> to blame for explosion in fraud rates. 

Banks didn't supplement anything. The Green, Yellow, and Red Path system
was designed by banks and Apple together, and banks agreed to be
responsible for vetting Yellow Path cards by additional measures defined
by those banks. Some banks defined adequate processes to ensure fraud
could not happen, while other banks did not define adequate processes,
and therefore have high rates of fraud. Try as you might, you cannot
place the blame for that on Apple's doorstep. Keep trolling if you feel
you must though.

> But the fact remains that the activation process, as designed by
> Apple, is inadequate.

Nope. The Yellow Path process is designed by each bank, and varies from bank to
bank as a result. Some banks designed crappy processes, and high fraud
is the result. Apple had little to do with it.

> I suspect this will get fixed soon, if not done already.

The banks will be the ones fixing this problem.

And you are a troll.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#71856

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2015-03-22 20:19 -0400
Message-ID<550f5c2d$0$1698$c3e8da3$e408f015@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#71847
On 15-03-22 19:05, Jolly Roger wrote:

> Some banks are having fraud problems, while other banks are identifying
> their customers with the same set of information Apple is giving all
> banks.

This is not a correct conclusion. It is posisble that those banks with
high fraud are basinfg their activation decision only on limited info
provided by Apple's systems, while other banks have concluded that set
of info is inadequate and require additional information from the user.

I think it is Lewis that says that to activate Chase cards on iPhone, he
needs to also have the Chase propietary banking app installe on iPhone.
Looks to me like the info from Apple Pay is insufficient for Chase to
make informed decision on whether to activate a card or not based on
limited info from Apple.


Of note: even if it is bank X that is at fault for activating cards
known to be at high risk/stolen, the end result is that articles are
written about *APPLE* Pay. So the bad image is attributed to a system
owned, operated and branded by Apple, not to the individual bank who is
clueless on security.

So one rotten apple (no pun intended) ruins the image of Apple Pay for
all banks using it instead of ruining only that bank's image.

Had the articles actually pointed out that the high fraud rates were
attributed to only one or two banks and named them, then Apple Pay's
image would not be so tarnished since it would be those bank that would
look bad. But this wasn't done. So Apple has some PR work to do to fix
that image.

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#71864

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-03-23 00:36 +0000
Message-ID<cn95h7F6nbtU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#71856
On 2015-03-23, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 15-03-22 19:05, Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>> Some banks are having fraud problems, while other banks are identifying
>> their customers with the same set of information Apple is giving all
>> banks.
>
> This is not a correct conclusion. It is posisble that those banks with
> high fraud are basinfg their activation decision only on limited info
> provided by Apple's systems, while other banks have concluded that set
> of info is inadequate and require additional information from the user.

Where'd you read that? The reports so far have said that the cards in
question are Yellow Path cards, so the banks are already aware
information does not match what is on record. We also know that some
banks are much more thorough in their Yellow Path questioning than
others.

> I think it is Lewis that says that to activate Chase cards on iPhone, he
> needs to also have the Chase propietary banking app installe on iPhone.
> Looks to me like the info from Apple Pay is insufficient for Chase to
> make informed decision on whether to activate a card or not based on
> limited info from Apple.

Apple provided Chase with the tools needed to do what they felt was
needed to get more information with iOS APIs too. Other banks could do
the same, but don't. That's somehow got to be Apple's fault in your
world.

> Of note: even if it is bank X that is at fault for activating cards
> known to be at high risk/stolen, the end result is that articles are
> written about *APPLE* Pay. So the bad image is attributed to a system
> owned, operated and branded by Apple, not to the individual bank who is
> clueless on security.

Yeah you just love saying that even though Apple didn't do X wrong, it
will still hurt Apple's image. You did it with Antenna Gate, and a bunch
of others before too. Standard trolling for you.

> So one rotten apple (no pun intended) ruins the image of Apple Pay for
> all banks using it instead of ruining only that bank's image.

Yes, yes, Apple's image is ruined! Doomed!

> Had the articles actually pointed out that the high fraud rates were
> attributed to only one or two banks

They did.

> and named them

They didn't name the banks. But that won't stop your wild speculation.

> then Apple Pay's image would not be so tarnished

It's only tarnished for trolls who wish it would fail. According to most
Apple Pay users I've talked to and read about, Apple Pay is seen as very
useful and a pleasant experience that works well.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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