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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #68560 > unrolled thread
| Started by | nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) |
|---|---|
| First post | 2015-01-19 16:50 -0700 |
| Last post | 2015-01-23 14:16 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 220 — 21 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.sys.mac.system
Gassee joins the fray nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2015-01-19 16:50 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-20 00:01 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-19 22:18 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-20 15:43 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-20 11:16 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-20 16:28 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> - 2015-01-20 12:39 -0600
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 06:18 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2015-01-20 14:05 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 06:19 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-20 19:53 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 02:40 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lao-Ming Liu <laomingliu@gmail.com> - 2015-01-20 20:18 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 04:42 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-20 22:31 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-21 21:46 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lao-Ming Liu <laomingliu@gmail.com> - 2015-01-20 22:01 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-20 23:12 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-01-21 09:56 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2015-01-21 09:22 -0600
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 15:49 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-21 10:59 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 16:29 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 16:52 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 17:06 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 13:40 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-01-21 19:02 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 14:09 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 19:23 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 19:19 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 19:46 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 19:50 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 20:43 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 20:55 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-21 14:00 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 21:09 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 16:14 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 21:19 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 23:53 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-22 00:06 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-21 13:55 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 23:55 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-21 17:41 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 16:13 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-21 16:10 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 21:12 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 23:57 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-01-22 15:16 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 11:59 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-23 01:04 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 03:04 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-01-22 11:59 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 23:17 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-22 20:42 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-22 22:14 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 03:52 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-22 22:14 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 14:21 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2015-01-21 23:12 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-24 18:42 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-24 18:40 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 02:53 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-21 21:36 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-22 16:55 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-22 12:14 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-22 17:24 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-22 13:25 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-22 22:05 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-22 22:06 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 14:16 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-24 18:47 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 02:57 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-24 21:09 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 09:30 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-25 16:19 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-25 09:22 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 11:09 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-26 14:53 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 12:14 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-22 22:03 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 00:00 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 09:52 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 15:13 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-01-23 15:40 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 11:28 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 11:44 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:32 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:44 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:48 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:50 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:15 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-01-24 10:56 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-24 11:05 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 16:22 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-24 21:51 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-25 12:20 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 02:38 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-24 15:32 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:14 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:29 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 15:35 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-24 12:38 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:33 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:30 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:42 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:54 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 15:00 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 08:50 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-01-24 17:07 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 16:35 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-25 00:03 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 09:19 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:13 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 11:01 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-26 21:34 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:07 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 14:12 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 09:49 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 15:08 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 10:49 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 16:18 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 11:30 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 16:55 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 12:03 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 17:07 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 11:41 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:39 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:45 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 16:19 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-24 21:38 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-24 18:45 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 03:04 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 11:17 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 18:46 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-01-24 10:46 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-01-24 10:54 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-24 13:55 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-24 10:42 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 16:14 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-25 03:54 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-23 17:34 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 17:49 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-23 18:05 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 18:37 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 11:41 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 18:43 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 14:13 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 12:23 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 19:28 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:58 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:58 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-26 14:46 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-23 20:46 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 10:17 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 14:05 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 19:08 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 11:20 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:40 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 18:23 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 18:21 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 20:50 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 10:15 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-23 23:19 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 13:16 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 08:48 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-01-24 09:20 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-01-23 15:38 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:36 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:45 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:17 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 17:14 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-24 22:37 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-25 12:24 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:40 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-26 13:39 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 18:21 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 22:05 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 20:46 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 19:55 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 21:05 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 20:57 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 21:01 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-24 00:12 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 18:31 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 23:17 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 08:52 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-24 18:40 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 03:03 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 09:27 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-26 01:50 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 22:25 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-25 14:56 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 20:19 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-26 21:55 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 20:07 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 23:57 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:45 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-26 21:52 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:37 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-26 21:49 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 11:26 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 10:20 +1300
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:43 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:48 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:56 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-22 20:37 -0500
Re: Gassee joins the fray nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2015-01-22 20:55 -0700
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 03:59 +0000
Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-22 22:09 -0800
Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 14:16 +0000
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| From | nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-19 16:50 -0700 |
| Subject | Gassee joins the fray |
| Message-ID | <1lyi997.xex7dh1r8ghuqN%nmassello@yahoo.com> |
on Apple's software disarray. <http://www.mondaynote.com/2015/01/18/apple-software-quality-questions/>
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-20 00:01 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ci5k6jF74asU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #68560 |
On 2015-01-19, Neill Massello <nmassello@yahoo.com> wrote: > on Apple's software disarray. > ><http://www.mondaynote.com/2015/01/18/apple-software-quality-questions/> The fact that there are bugs is not evidence of a downward trend in quality. Logic fail. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-19 22:18 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <YOidneBRkPhvVSDJnZ2dnUU7-YudnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #68561 |
On 2015.01.19 19:01 , Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2015-01-19, Neill Massello <nmassello@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> on Apple's software disarray.
>>
>> <http://www.mondaynote.com/2015/01/18/apple-software-quality-questions/>
>
> The fact that there are bugs is not evidence of a downward trend in
> quality. Logic fail.
It may be convenient that there is no public quantifying of it - that
does not mean the opinions of the various developer/bloggers is wrong.
What is true is that Apple's R&D has ballooned. [1]
Feature implementations have ballooned (as has complexity).
Developers are griping - loudly. Much more loudly than ever (while
acknowledging that there have always been bugs - now they are more
prevalent and getting in the way more often.
The rollout of new iOS majors is hard-tied to new model rollouts.
To believe this isn't straining Apple's software teams and resulting in
quality loss is whistling in the dark.
http://glog.glennf.com/blog/2015/1/6/the-software-and-services-apple-needs-to-fix
Seems to point to an opportunity for Apple to stop implementing new
features and make "it just works" actually work like it's said to work
during the product keynotes.
(Note: the only time that "handoff" would have been handy for me, it
failed with a "Handoff could not complete" (words to that effect).
[1] In 2012, Apple revenue grew by 45% to $156.5B and R&D went up by
39% to $3.4B.
In 2013, revenue grew 9% to $171B but R&D went up 32% to $4.5B.
In 2014, revenue went up 7% to $183B while R&D grew 35% to $6B.
[2] A current Apple engineer:
the sprint (milestone) development system is still in place... it’s
not the problem though, it’s <sic> the problem is the focus on new
useless [imo] features at the expense of core functionality and
quality
http://mjtsai.com/blog/2015/01/06/apples-software-quality-continued/
--
"Your net worth to the world is usually
determined by what remains after your
bad habits are subtracted from your good ones."
Benjamin Franklin
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-20 15:43 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ci7bddFkdrcU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #68565 |
On 2015-01-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote: > On 2015.01.19 19:01 , Jolly Roger wrote: >> On 2015-01-19, Neill Massello <nmassello@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> on Apple's software disarray. >>> >>> <http://www.mondaynote.com/2015/01/18/apple-software-quality-questions/> >> >> The fact that there are bugs is not evidence of a downward trend in >> quality. Logic fail. > > It may be convenient that there is no public quantifying of it - that > does not mean the opinions of the various developer/bloggers is wrong. "Look, I found another bug" is not evidence of a downward trend in quality, no matter how many times you repeat it Alan. > What is true is that Apple's R&D has ballooned. [1] > > Feature implementations have ballooned (as has complexity). As has happened several times in the past. > Developers are griping - loudly. Much more loudly than ever (while > acknowledging that there have always been bugs - now they are more > prevalent and getting in the way more often. So far nobody has shown a trend. They all, like you, say "things weren't this bad before" without a shred of evidence showing that to be the case. Selective memory doesn't equate to evidence of a downward trend. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-20 11:16 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <54be7f7f$0$54669$c3e8da3$fdf4f6af@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #68572 |
On 15-01-20 10:43, Jolly Roger wrote: > "Look, I found another bug" is not evidence of a downward trend in > quality, no matter how many times you repeat it Alan. IT's your right to remain blind to reality and refuse to see a trend. The types of problems being seen are not just "bugs", they are indicative of over agressive development. Became very visible with the Apple Maps, but continued afterwards. Totally rewriting mDNSresponder (for what reason ?) and putting it in production before it was fully tested is such an example. Does it actually do anything new ? Similarly, Apple had properly working wi-fi software, and broke it. Now, about 70% of the time that I open my laptop, I have to manually select my home wi-fi network. This was something that worked before. That there be bugs in some totally new functionality (like call transfer from hanset to computer) I can accept. But not when you start to see long working functiosn start to break just because someone at Apple decided the software had to not ony be rewritten, but beta tested in the full release.
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-20 16:28 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ci7e0pFl53kU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #68573 |
On 2015-01-20, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote: > On 15-01-20 10:43, Jolly Roger wrote: > >> "Look, I found another bug" is not evidence of a downward trend in >> quality, no matter how many times you repeat it Alan. > > IT's your right to remain blind to reality and refuse to see a trend. Your failure to show a trend doesn't equate to my blind unwillingness to see a trend. In fact I am asking for evidence of a trend, and as of yet none has been provided. Instead, all I see is a bunch of people claiming the existence of bugs magically equates to a downward trend. It doesn't. That's a fact. It's really brain-dead simple: Show the trend. Otherwise I call bullshit. > The types of problems being seen are not just "bugs", they are > indicative of over agressive development. We can look back in history and see plenty of examples of bugs (example: iTunes deleting entire hard drives) and attribute them to "over aggressive development" if you wish. Your classification is arbitrary, and the fact is at various times in Apple's history there have been critical issues. You have yet to show what makes current bugs any different. > Became very visible with the > Apple Maps, but continued afterwards. Again, no evidence of a trend - just one buggy release out of many that came before it. > Totally rewriting mDNSresponder > (for what reason ?) and putting it in production before it was fully > tested is such an example. Does it actually do anything new ? You admit you are clueless as to why it was rewritten. Then you turn around and claim that it wasn't fully tested without knowing anything about how it was tested. You're blowing hot air from a position of pure ignorance. And you still have not shown a tend. All you have shown is that a buggy release of a software component happened like so many that came before it. > Similarly, Apple had properly working wi-fi software, and broke it. Now, > about 70% of the time that I open my laptop, I have to manually select > my home wi-fi network. This was something that worked before. The fact that shit breaks does not equate to a downward trend in quality. > That there be bugs in some totally new functionality (like call transfer > from hanset to computer) I can accept. But not when you start to see > long working functiosn start to break just because someone at Apple > decided the software had to not ony be rewritten, but beta tested in the > full release. You have no idea why these particular bugs came to be, and you have no idea to what extent they were tested before release. But more importantly, you have shown zero evidence that there is a downward trend in software quality. The fact that bugs exist isn't enough - bugs have always existed, and probably always will. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-20 12:39 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <ci7lnuFnef2U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #68573 |
On 2015-01-20 16:16:55 +0000, JF Mezei said: [responding to Jolly Roger in a prior posting in this thread] > Similarly, Apple had properly working wi-fi software, and broke it. Now, > about 70% of the time that I open my laptop, I have to manually select > my home wi-fi network. This was something that worked before. I connect to the Internet wirelessly, connecting with one from an Apple Time Capsule. The network is shared with two other persons and none of us have experienced any connection problems. This sharing of a wireless network has been going on without problems for almost ten years, although the equipment used has been upgraded. -- James Leo Ryan - Austin, Texas
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| From | Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 06:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnmbuh70.782.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #68575 |
Okay, so one time? In band camp? TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> was all, like: > On 2015-01-20 16:16:55 +0000, JF Mezei said: > [responding to Jolly Roger in a prior posting in this thread] >> Similarly, Apple had properly working wi-fi software, and broke it. Now, >> about 70% of the time that I open my laptop, I have to manually select >> my home wi-fi network. This was something that worked before. > I connect to the Internet wirelessly, connecting with one from an Apple > Time Capsule. The network is shared with two other persons and none of > us have experienced any connection problems. This sharing of a wireless > network has been going on without problems for almost ten years, > although the equipment used has been upgraded. I replaced my LAN hardware with and Apple Extreme and an Apple Express and basically every single annoying problem I had with Wifi has vanished. Yes, I spent $300, but the reduced aggravation has already almost paid for that, and it's been only a month. -- http://2blog.kreme.com
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| From | Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-20 14:05 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <barmar-BBBF78.14050620012015@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu> |
| In reply to | #68573 |
In article <54be7f7f$0$54669$c3e8da3$fdf4f6af@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote: > On 15-01-20 10:43, Jolly Roger wrote: > > > "Look, I found another bug" is not evidence of a downward trend in > > quality, no matter how many times you repeat it Alan. > > IT's your right to remain blind to reality and refuse to see a trend. > > The types of problems being seen are not just "bugs", they are > indicative of over agressive development. Became very visible with the > Apple Maps, but continued afterwards. Totally rewriting mDNSresponder > (for what reason ?) and putting it in production before it was fully > tested is such an example. Does it actually do anything new ? People have been pointing out regressions like these for years. This isn't a trend in one direction or another, it's just the status quo of the software industry. -- Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu Arlington, MA *** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***
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| From | Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 06:19 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnmbuh8d.782.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #68576 |
Okay, so one time? In band camp? Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> was all, like: > In article <54be7f7f$0$54669$c3e8da3$fdf4f6af@news.astraweb.com>, > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote: >> On 15-01-20 10:43, Jolly Roger wrote: >> >> > "Look, I found another bug" is not evidence of a downward trend in >> > quality, no matter how many times you repeat it Alan. >> >> IT's your right to remain blind to reality and refuse to see a trend. >> >> The types of problems being seen are not just "bugs", they are >> indicative of over agressive development. Became very visible with the >> Apple Maps, but continued afterwards. Totally rewriting mDNSresponder >> (for what reason ?) and putting it in production before it was fully >> tested is such an example. Does it actually do anything new ? > People have been pointing out regressions like these for years. This > isn't a trend in one direction or another, it's just the status quo of > the software industry. Yep. And Apple in particular has always been a bit more cyclical than some other companies. -- http://2blog.kreme.com
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| From | Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-20 19:53 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <g_udndTDYMo6ZSPJnZ2dnUU7-aednZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #68572 |
On 2015.01.20 10:43 , Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2015-01-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2015.01.19 19:01 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> On 2015-01-19, Neill Massello <nmassello@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> on Apple's software disarray.
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.mondaynote.com/2015/01/18/apple-software-quality-questions/>
>>>
>>> The fact that there are bugs is not evidence of a downward trend in
>>> quality. Logic fail.
>>
>> It may be convenient that there is no public quantifying of it - that
>> does not mean the opinions of the various developer/bloggers is wrong.
>
> "Look, I found another bug" is not evidence of a downward trend in
> quality, no matter how many times you repeat it Alan.
I'm not the one saying it. Developers with long history with Apple are
saying it.
>
>> What is true is that Apple's R&D has ballooned. [1]
>>
>> Feature implementations have ballooned (as has complexity).
>
> As has happened several times in the past.
Snipping out the explosion of R&D growth is convenient, huh?
I'm sure you recall the adage that you can't make a baby in 1 month by
impregnating 9 women.
>
>> Developers are griping - loudly. Much more loudly than ever (while
>> acknowledging that there have always been bugs - now they are more
>> prevalent and getting in the way more often.
>
> So far nobody has shown a trend. They all, like you, say "things weren't
> this bad before" without a shred of evidence showing that to be the
> case. Selective memory doesn't equate to evidence of a downward trend.
Regretfully we don't have the Apple bug tracking report database. We
won't any time soon. But when a collective of developers are feeling
pain and voicing it, it's not because they don't have other things to do.
--
"Your net worth to the world is usually
determined by what remains after your
bad habits are subtracted from your good ones."
Benjamin Franklin
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 02:40 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ci8hsnFatU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #68581 |
On 2015-01-21, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote: > On 2015.01.20 10:43 , Jolly Roger wrote: >> On 2015-01-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote: >>> On 2015.01.19 19:01 , Jolly Roger wrote: >>>> On 2015-01-19, Neill Massello <nmassello@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>> on Apple's software disarray. >>>>> >>>>> <http://www.mondaynote.com/2015/01/18/apple-software-quality-questions/> >>>> >>>> The fact that there are bugs is not evidence of a downward trend in >>>> quality. Logic fail. >>> >>> It may be convenient that there is no public quantifying of it - that >>> does not mean the opinions of the various developer/bloggers is wrong. >> >> "Look, I found another bug" is not evidence of a downward trend in >> quality, no matter how many times you repeat it Alan. > > I'm not the one saying it. Developers with long history with Apple are > saying it. The world is full of idiots. I'm a developer on Apple platforms since 1986. I'm not saying it. And I'm interested in evidence. So far, ZERO evidence of a decline in quality has been given. >>> What is true is that Apple's R&D has ballooned. [1] >>> >>> Feature implementations have ballooned (as has complexity). >> >> As has happened several times in the past. > > Snipping out the explosion of R&D growth is convenient, huh? Nothing was snipped out. R&D expenses have little to do with software quality. You're blowing hot air. >>> Developers are griping - loudly. Much more loudly than ever (while >>> acknowledging that there have always been bugs - now they are more >>> prevalent and getting in the way more often. >> >> So far nobody has shown a trend. They all, like you, say "things weren't >> this bad before" without a shred of evidence showing that to be the >> case. Selective memory doesn't equate to evidence of a downward trend. > > Regretfully we don't have the Apple bug tracking report database. I can assure you Apple has it. > We won't any time soon. Then maybe you should stop talking about things you clearly don't know much about. > But when a collective of developers are feeling > pain and voicing it, it's not because they don't have other things to do. Selective memory does not equate to a trend. All you have to do to prove your mistaken theory is show the trend. So far, you haven't been able to do that. Until you do, there is no reason for me (or anyone else with a brain) to believe your assertion that software quality is in decline. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | Lao-Ming Liu <laomingliu@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-20 20:18 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <4035fcd0-0ce1-4dfb-9a81-ea2357025bc2@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #68584 |
On Tuesday, January 20, 2015 at 6:40:27 PM UTC-8, Jolly Roger wrote: > On 2015-01-21, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote: > > On 2015.01.20 10:43 , Jolly Roger wrote: > >> On 2015-01-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote: > >>> On 2015.01.19 19:01 , Jolly Roger wrote: > >>>> On 2015-01-19, Neill Massello <nmassello@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>>>> on Apple's software disarray. > >>>>> > >>>>> <http://www.mondaynote.com/2015/01/18/apple-software-quality-questions/> > >>>> > >>>> The fact that there are bugs is not evidence of a downward trend in > >>>> quality. Logic fail. > >>> > >>> It may be convenient that there is no public quantifying of it - that > >>> does not mean the opinions of the various developer/bloggers is wrong. > >> > >> "Look, I found another bug" is not evidence of a downward trend in > >> quality, no matter how many times you repeat it Alan. > > > > I'm not the one saying it. Developers with long history with Apple are > > saying it. > > The world is full of idiots. I'm a developer on Apple platforms since > 1986. I'm not saying it. And I'm interested in evidence. So far, ZERO > evidence of a decline in quality has been given. > > >>> What is true is that Apple's R&D has ballooned. [1] > >>> > >>> Feature implementations have ballooned (as has complexity). > >> > >> As has happened several times in the past. > > > > Snipping out the explosion of R&D growth is convenient, huh? > > Nothing was snipped out. R&D expenses have little to do with software > quality. You're blowing hot air. > > >>> Developers are griping - loudly. Much more loudly than ever (while > >>> acknowledging that there have always been bugs - now they are more > >>> prevalent and getting in the way more often. > >> > >> So far nobody has shown a trend. They all, like you, say "things weren't > >> this bad before" without a shred of evidence showing that to be the > >> case. Selective memory doesn't equate to evidence of a downward trend. > > > > Regretfully we don't have the Apple bug tracking report database. > > I can assure you Apple has it. > > > We won't any time soon. > > Then maybe you should stop talking about things you clearly don't know > much about. > > > But when a collective of developers are feeling > > pain and voicing it, it's not because they don't have other things to do. > > Selective memory does not equate to a trend. All you have to do to prove > your mistaken theory is show the trend. So far, you haven't been able to > do that. Until you do, there is no reason for me (or anyone else with a > brain) to believe your assertion that software quality is in decline. > > -- > E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. > I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. > > JR When I read the article by Jean Louis Gassee on Monday (before seing what the OP posted), I immediately imagined the topic progressing in this manner with Jolly Roger being as hard-headed as possible in his defense of Apple as usual without fail while insulting all of those who dare to disagree with him. He is a broken record and you might as well take his responses with a grain of salt because he is the Apple fan boy and probably always will be. It must be a sad life being Unjolly Roger.
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 04:42 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ci8p1mFt4jU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #68585 |
On 2015-01-21, Lao-Ming Liu <laomingliu@gmail.com> wrote: > > When I read the article by Jean Louis Gassee on Monday (before seing > what the OP posted), I immediately imagined the topic progressing in > this manner with Jolly Roger being as hard-headed as possible in his > defense of Apple as usual without fail while insulting all of those > who dare to disagree with him. He is a broken record and you might as > well take his responses with a grain of salt because he is the Apple > fan boy and probably always will be. It must be a sad life being > Unjolly Roger. My life is filled with joy. If that upsets you so be it. : ) It may surprise you to know that your snide personal insults don't equate to evidence of a downward trend in software quality either. Anyone can claim anything without backing it up with real evidence; but few can do it without coming off looking like a fool. I don't debate that Apple software has bug. It always has and perhaps always will. There have been times when there were many bugs, and times when there were few. This is the natural way with complex software. All I have done from the beginning regarding this silly debate is ask for evidence of a downward trend in software quality, yet not a single one of you has been able to provide a shred. Saying empty things out of ignorance seems to be the rule of the day for many. And calling those who ask for you to prove your assertions "fan boys" doesn't help your case at all. You too have failed in the simple task of backing up your assertion with evidence. More fool you. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-20 22:31 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <200120152231537565%michelle@michelle.org> |
| In reply to | #68586 |
In article <ci8p1mFt4jU1@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote: > > When I read the article by Jean Louis Gassee on Monday (before seing > > what the OP posted), I immediately imagined the topic progressing in > > this manner with Jolly Roger being as hard-headed as possible in his > > defense of Apple as usual without fail while insulting all of those > > who dare to disagree with him. He is a broken record and you might as > > well take his responses with a grain of salt because he is the Apple > > fan boy and probably always will be. It must be a sad life being > > Unjolly Roger. > > My life is filled with joy. If that upsets you so be it. : ) Trolls like to try to spread their misery around. They can't stand it when other people aren't as sad and miserable as they are. One has to wonder about Gassee's objectivity when it comes to Apple. For one thing, he was forced out of the company because of poor performance. For another thing, Apple chose the NeXT OS over his Be OS to replace the aging Mac OS.
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| From | Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 21:46 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <m9q2qo$v0v$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #68587 |
On 2015-01-21 05:31:53 +0000, Michelle Steiner said: > In article <ci8p1mFt4jU1@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger > <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote: > >>> When I read the article by Jean Louis Gassee on Monday (before seing >>> what the OP posted), I immediately imagined the topic progressing in >>> this manner with Jolly Roger being as hard-headed as possible in his >>> defense of Apple as usual without fail while insulting all of those >>> who dare to disagree with him. He is a broken record and you might as >>> well take his responses with a grain of salt because he is the Apple >>> fan boy and probably always will be. It must be a sad life being >>> Unjolly Roger. >> >> My life is filled with joy. If that upsets you so be it. : ) > > Trolls like to try to spread their misery around. They can't stand it > when other people aren't as sad and miserable as they are. > > One has to wonder about Gassee's objectivity when it comes to Apple. > For one thing, he was forced out of the company because of poor > performance. For another thing, Apple chose the NeXT OS over his Be OS > to replace the aging Mac OS. Regardless, Gassee's not saying anything that other people aren't saying either. We forgave Apple for introducing OS X in a relative state of slowness and bugginess, and with each release our forgiveness turned out to be warranted. By 10.4 OS X was very fast, and feature-wise it was light years ahead of anything else on the market from both a user and developer perspective. Things got even better and many people both online and in my own personal life believe that 10.6 was the pinnacle of OS X. Not only have I noticed that OS X has been slowly unraveling since that time, but other people I know - even those who are not computer geeks - have noticed it as well. Sadly I think a lot of Apple's stalwart defenders, marketing crew, and reputation managers have gotten the wrong message. People are pissed not just because OS X is going downhill, but because we like it so much better than the alternatives.
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| From | Lao-Ming Liu <laomingliu@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-20 22:01 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <25943ea1-0475-42b7-b469-6f65a264a3da@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #68586 |
On Tuesday, January 20, 2015 at 8:42:33 PM UTC-8, Jolly Roger wrote: > On 2015-01-21, Lao-Ming Liu wrote: > > > > When I read the article by Jean Louis Gassee on Monday (before seing > > what the OP posted), I immediately imagined the topic progressing in > > this manner with Jolly Roger being as hard-headed as possible in his > > defense of Apple as usual without fail while insulting all of those > > who dare to disagree with him. He is a broken record and you might as > > well take his responses with a grain of salt because he is the Apple > > fan boy and probably always will be. It must be a sad life being > > Unjolly Roger. > > My life is filled with joy. If that upsets you so be it. : ) It may > surprise you to know that your snide personal insults don't equate to > evidence of a downward trend in software quality either. Anyone can > claim anything without backing it up with real evidence; but few can do > it without coming off looking like a fool. I don't debate that Apple > software has bug. It always has and perhaps always will. There have been > times when there were many bugs, and times when there were few. This is > the natural way with complex software. All I have done from the > beginning regarding this silly debate is ask for evidence of a downward > trend in software quality, yet not a single one of you has been able to > provide a shred. Saying empty things out of ignorance seems to be the > rule of the day for many. And calling those who ask for you to prove > your assertions "fan boys" doesn't help your case at all. You too have > failed in the simple task of backing up your assertion with evidence. > More fool you. > > -- > E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. > I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. > > JR Yeah, your life is so filled with joy that you're constantly at odds with everybody on this newsgroup. But no one here really cares about your life. It's your daily behavior here that matters ... which you clearly refuse to see.
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| From | Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-20 23:12 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <200120152312575395%michelle@michelle.org> |
| In reply to | #68588 |
In article <25943ea1-0475-42b7-b469-6f65a264a3da@googlegroups.com>, Lao-Ming Liu <laomingliu@gmail.com> wrote: > Yeah, your life is so filled with joy that you're constantly at odds with > everybody on this newsgroup. he is at odds with only three regulars on this news group, plus a plethora of trolls like you. > But no one here really cares about your life. You surely seem to care about it. > It's your daily behavior here that matters ... which you clearly refuse to > see. You are one of the last people to complain about other people's behavior, troll. Glass houses and black pots.
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| From | Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 09:56 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ci9becF4fniU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #68589 |
On 2015-01-21, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <25943ea1-0475-42b7-b469-6f65a264a3da@googlegroups.com>,
> Lao-Ming Liu <laomingliu@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, your life is so filled with joy that you're constantly at odds with
>> everybody on this newsgroup.
>
> he is at odds with only three regulars on this news group, plus a
> plethora of trolls like you.
>
>> But no one here really cares about your life.
>
> You surely seem to care about it.
>
>> It's your daily behavior here that matters ... which you clearly refuse to
>> see.
>
> You are one of the last people to complain about other people's
> behavior, troll. Glass houses and black pots.
What happened to "killfile & forget"? Engaging with trolls is what they *want*.
--
Today is Sweetmorn, the 21st day of Chaos in the YOLD 3181
I don't have an attitude problem. If you have a problem with my attitude,
that's your problem.
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| From | George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-01-21 09:22 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <D0E52045.B38B4%ghost_topper@hotmail.com> |
| In reply to | #68588 |
On 1/21/15 12:01 AM, in article 25943ea1-0475-42b7-b469-6f65a264a3da@googlegroups.com, "Lao-Ming Liu" <laomingliu@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tuesday, January 20, 2015 at 8:42:33 PM UTC-8, Jolly Roger wrote: >> On 2015-01-21, Lao-Ming Liu wrote: >>> >>> When I read the article by Jean Louis Gassee on Monday (before seing >>> what the OP posted), I immediately imagined the topic progressing in >>> this manner with Jolly Roger being as hard-headed as possible in his >>> defense of Apple as usual without fail while insulting all of those >>> who dare to disagree with him. He is a broken record and you might as >>> well take his responses with a grain of salt because he is the Apple >>> fan boy and probably always will be. It must be a sad life being >>> Unjolly Roger. >> >> My life is filled with joy. If that upsets you so be it. : ) It may >> surprise you to know that your snide personal insults don't equate to >> evidence of a downward trend in software quality either. Anyone can >> claim anything without backing it up with real evidence; but few can do >> it without coming off looking like a fool. I don't debate that Apple >> software has bug. It always has and perhaps always will. There have been >> times when there were many bugs, and times when there were few. This is >> the natural way with complex software. All I have done from the >> beginning regarding this silly debate is ask for evidence of a downward >> trend in software quality, yet not a single one of you has been able to >> provide a shred. Saying empty things out of ignorance seems to be the >> rule of the day for many. And calling those who ask for you to prove >> your assertions "fan boys" doesn't help your case at all. You too have >> failed in the simple task of backing up your assertion with evidence. >> More fool you. >> >> -- >> E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. >> I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. >> >> JR > > Yeah, your life is so filled with joy that you're constantly at odds with > everybody on this newsgroup. But no one here really cares about your life. > It's your daily behavior here that matters ... which you clearly refuse to > see. Who the fuck are YOU?!? All I have ever experienced from him is helpful response to others' questions. Myself, I have had a friendly relationship with JR (other than some political back & forth). OTOH, I don't know you from Adam. Is this a sock for a particular troll that frequents this NG?
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