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Curious - SMS / Mac

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  Curious - SMS / Mac Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-11 09:31 -0500
    Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-11 14:51 +0000
      Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-11 10:05 -0500
        Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-11 15:32 +0000
          Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-11 11:53 -0500
            Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-11 17:01 +0000
              Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-11 12:19 -0500
              Re: Curious - SMS / Mac JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-11 14:06 -0500
              Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-11 19:30 +0000
                Re: Curious - SMS / Mac JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-11 14:49 -0500
                Re: Curious - SMS / Mac dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-01-12 10:14 +1300
                  Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-11 21:46 +0000
                  Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-11 23:14 +0000
                  Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-11 18:59 -0500
                    Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-12 01:17 +0000
            Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-11 19:30 +0000
        Re: Curious - SMS / Mac JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-11 10:51 -0500
          Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-11 16:02 +0000
            Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2015-01-11 10:01 -0800
              Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-11 18:03 +0000
                Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-11 18:19 +0000
                Re: Curious - SMS / Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-11 13:42 -0500
              Re: Curious - SMS / Mac nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-11 13:42 -0500
              Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-11 19:28 +0000
    Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> - 2015-01-11 13:45 -0500
      Re: Curious - SMS / Mac jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-01-12 08:12 +1300
      Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-11 18:50 -0500
        Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> - 2015-01-12 10:44 -0500
          Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-12 14:15 -0500
    Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Michael Eyd <invalid@eyd.de> - 2015-01-13 09:28 +0100
      Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-13 08:49 -0500
        Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2015-01-13 14:15 +0000
        Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-13 16:25 +0000
          Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-14 08:05 -0500
            Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-14 08:11 -0500
            Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-14 14:52 +0000
              Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-14 19:24 -0500
        Re: Curious - SMS / Mac Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-13 22:13 +0000

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#68256

On 2015-01-11, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2015-01-11, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>> On 1/11/2015 8:02 AM, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>
>>>>> Rough path:
>>>>> 	My Mac -> Apple (Xing international border; cc: CSIS, NSA)
>>>>> 	Apple -> my iPhone (Xing international border; cc: NSA, CSIS)
>>>>> 	my iPhone (SMS) -> my cellco.
>>>>> 	my cellco -> his cellco.
>>>>> 	his cellco -> his android.
>>>>
>>>> Is it documented that the flow goes through the Apple servers instead of
>>>> the Mac connecting directly to the iPhone ?
>>>>
>>>> I was thinking that the Mac and iPhone would get to know about each
>>>> other's IP address via Bonjour on the LAN and then exchange data directly.
>>>>
>>>> However, if it worked with a phone outside of the LAN, I guess Apple is
>>>> involved in some way.
>>>
>>> It does go through Apple, and it is encrypted.
>>
>> But does Apple have access to them even with warrants?
>
><http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/27/apple-explains-exactly-how-secure-imessage-really-is/>

From the horse's mouth:

<https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/iOS_Security_Guide_Oct_2014.pdf>

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#68258

In article <chfs7oFap3sU1@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
<jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> >> It does go through Apple, and it is encrypted.
> >
> > But does Apple have access to them even with warrants?
> 
> <http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/27/apple-explains-exactly-how-secure-imessage-really-is/>

  ..because Apple is encrypting messages/data once for each device and
  has control over the key infrastructure, they may (if, say, by court
  order) be able to throw another public key into the mix‹ thereby
  allowing messages sent to you after that point to be read by whoever
  has the corresponding private key.

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#68259

In article <w9idncXezqr9Jy_JnZ2dnUU7-UudnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Ant
<ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

> >
> > It does go through Apple, and it is encrypted.
> 
> But does Apple have access to them even with warrants?

<http://blog.quarkslab.com/imessage-privacy.html>

  €  What we are not saying: Apple reads your iMessages.
  €  What we are saying: Apple can read your iMessages if they choose
      to, or if they are required to do so by a government order.

  As Apple claims, there is end-to-end encryption. The weakness is in
  the key infrastructure as it is controlled by Apple: they can change
  a key anytime they want, thus read the content of our iMessages.

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#68263

Okay, so one time? In band camp? Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> was all, like:
> On 1/11/2015 8:02 AM, Jolly Roger wrote:

>>>> Rough path:
>>>> 	My Mac -> Apple (Xing international border; cc: CSIS, NSA)
>>>> 	Apple -> my iPhone (Xing international border; cc: NSA, CSIS)
>>>> 	my iPhone (SMS) -> my cellco.
>>>> 	my cellco -> his cellco.
>>>> 	his cellco -> his android.
>>>
>>> Is it documented that the flow goes through the Apple servers instead of
>>> the Mac connecting directly to the iPhone ?
>>>
>>> I was thinking that the Mac and iPhone would get to know about each
>>> other's IP address via Bonjour on the LAN and then exchange data directly.
>>>
>>> However, if it worked with a phone outside of the LAN, I guess Apple is
>>> involved in some way.
>>
>> It does go through Apple, and it is encrypted.

> But does Apple have access to them even with warrants?

No.

-- 
"Hi Dad! It's 3am, do you know where I am?"

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#68260

On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 09:31:28 -0500, Alan Browne wrote
(in article <rLKdnUr_GuPdFC_JnZ2dnUU7-R2dnZ2d@giganews.com>):

> 
> I forgot my iPhone at work on Friday.  It's still there.
> 
> But I can still do SMS via Message on my Mac.
> 
> Does that mean, since the iPhone is connected to the WiFi at work, that 
> messages are flowing to/from the iPhone via the internet which then does 
> the SMS traffic?
> 
> More specifically via iCloud?
> 
> 

I don't have a "smart" phone.  I use email.  Pretty much every vendor 
has an SMS-Email gateway.  You can google it.  Works just fine on the 
few occasions when I need it.

-- 
Nelson

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#68262

Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 09:31:28 -0500, Alan Browne wrote
> (in article <rLKdnUr_GuPdFC_JnZ2dnUU7-R2dnZ2d@giganews.com>):
> 
> > 
> > I forgot my iPhone at work on Friday.  It's still there.
> > 
> > But I can still do SMS via Message on my Mac.
> > 
> > Does that mean, since the iPhone is connected to the WiFi at work, that
> > messages are flowing to/from the iPhone via the internet which then does
> > the SMS traffic?
> > 
> > More specifically via iCloud?
> > 
> > 
> 
> I don't have a "smart" phone.  I use email.  Pretty much every vendor
> has an SMS-Email gateway.  You can google it.  Works just fine on the
> few occasions when I need it.

It's kinda crappy looking, but I find Heywire useful if I'm without a
cell. It can TXT from the web, Mac and Windows desktop apps, and iOS or
Android apps, to most US carriers (it's how I stay in touch with some US
friends who don't have iPhones or only have a dumb cell), and a bunch of
other countries.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#68288

On 2015.01.11 13:45 , Nelson wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 09:31:28 -0500, Alan Browne wrote
> (in article <rLKdnUr_GuPdFC_JnZ2dnUU7-R2dnZ2d@giganews.com>):
>
>>
>> I forgot my iPhone at work on Friday.  It's still there.
>>
>> But I can still do SMS via Message on my Mac.
>>
>> Does that mean, since the iPhone is connected to the WiFi at work, that
>> messages are flowing to/from the iPhone via the internet which then does
>> the SMS traffic?
>>
>> More specifically via iCloud?
>>
>>
>
> I don't have a "smart" phone.  I use email.  Pretty much every vendor
> has an SMS-Email gateway.

Point(less) being?

-- 
"Your net worth to the world is usually
  determined by what remains after your
  bad habits are subtracted from your good ones."
                                   Benjamin Franklin

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#68302

On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 18:50:30 -0500, Alan Browne wrote
(in article <3pWdnUun7dzbkS7JnZ2dnUU7-RednZ2d@giganews.com>):

> On 2015.01.11 13:45 , Nelson wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 09:31:28 -0500, Alan Browne wrote
>> (in article <rLKdnUr_GuPdFC_JnZ2dnUU7-R2dnZ2d@giganews.com>):
>> 
>>> 
>>> I forgot my iPhone at work on Friday.  It's still there.
>>> 
>>> But I can still do SMS via Message on my Mac.
>>> 
>>> Does that mean, since the iPhone is connected to the WiFi at work, that
>>> messages are flowing to/from the iPhone via the internet which then does
>>> the SMS traffic?
>>> 
>>> More specifically via iCloud?
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> I don't have a "smart" phone.  I use email.  Pretty much every vendor
>> has an SMS-Email gateway.
> 
> Point(less) being?
> 
> 

I misread the OP.  I thought he was looking for a way to do SMS from 
his Mac.

-- 
Nelson

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#68313

On 2015.01.12 10:44 , Nelson wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 18:50:30 -0500, Alan Browne wrote
> (in article <3pWdnUun7dzbkS7JnZ2dnUU7-RednZ2d@giganews.com>):
>
>> On 2015.01.11 13:45 , Nelson wrote:
>>> On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 09:31:28 -0500, Alan Browne wrote
>>> (in article <rLKdnUr_GuPdFC_JnZ2dnUU7-R2dnZ2d@giganews.com>):
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I forgot my iPhone at work on Friday.  It's still there.
>>>>
>>>> But I can still do SMS via Message on my Mac.
>>>>
>>>> Does that mean, since the iPhone is connected to the WiFi at work, that
>>>> messages are flowing to/from the iPhone via the internet which then does
>>>> the SMS traffic?
>>>>
>>>> More specifically via iCloud?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't have a "smart" phone.  I use email.  Pretty much every vendor
>>> has an SMS-Email gateway.
>>
>> Point(less) being?
>>
>>
>
> I misread the OP.  I thought he was looking for a way to do SMS from
> his Mac.


Ok.  Sorry for the snarkiness.


-- 
"Your net worth to the world is usually
  determined by what remains after your
  bad habits are subtracted from your good ones."
                                   Benjamin Franklin

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#68338

Am 11.01.2015 um 15:31 schrieb Alan Browne:
>
> I forgot my iPhone at work on Friday.  It's still there.
>
> But I can still do SMS via Message on my Mac.
>
> Does that mean, since the iPhone is connected to the WiFi at work, that
> messages are flowing to/from the iPhone via the internet which then does
> the SMS traffic?
>
> More specifically via iCloud?

Are you sure that the message went out via SMS, and via iMessage? More 
specifically, was/is the address/name of the recipient shown in blue 
(iMessage) or green (SMS) in Messages on the iPhone?

If it went out via iMessage, no iPhone involvement is needed anyway. 
iMessage (like WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, ...) transmits directly via 
the internet. Only SMS (text messages) uses (AFAIK mandatorily) the 
mobile phone network, and there the part used for voice telephony, not 
the one used to give you internet access.

Best regards,

Michael

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#68342

On 2015.01.13 03:28 , Michael Eyd wrote:
> Am 11.01.2015 um 15:31 schrieb Alan Browne:
>>
>> I forgot my iPhone at work on Friday.  It's still there.
>>
>> But I can still do SMS via Message on my Mac.
>>
>> Does that mean, since the iPhone is connected to the WiFi at work, that
>> messages are flowing to/from the iPhone via the internet which then does
>> the SMS traffic?
>>
>> More specifically via iCloud?
>
> Are you sure that the message went out via SMS, and via iMessage? More
> specifically, was/is the address/name of the recipient shown in blue
> (iMessage) or green (SMS) in Messages on the iPhone?

Since the addressee has an Android, there is no way it could be "blue". 
  And of course it was green.


>
> If it went out via iMessage, no iPhone involvement is needed anyway.
> iMessage (like WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, ...) transmits directly via
> the internet. Only SMS (text messages) uses (AFAIK mandatorily) the
> mobile phone network, and there the part used for voice telephony, not
> the one used to give you internet access.

No, the way it works is:
<copy from prior post on Mac group - <naughty JR>>

     My Mac -> Apple (Xing international border; cc: CSIS, NSA)
     Apple -> my iPhone (Xing international border; cc: NSA, CSIS)
     my iPhone (SMS) -> my cellco.
     my cellco -> his cellco.
     his cellco -> his android.

Reverse all that for messages coming the other way.

-- 
"Your net worth to the world is usually
  determined by what remains after your
  bad habits are subtracted from your good ones."
                                   Benjamin Franklin

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#68343

In article <p9OdnWo4Wv_6vyjJnZ2dnUU7-audnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

>> If it went out via iMessage, no iPhone involvement is needed anyway.
>> iMessage (like WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, ...) transmits directly via
>> the internet. Only SMS (text messages) uses (AFAIK mandatorily) the
>> mobile phone network, and there the part used for voice telephony, not
>> the one used to give you internet access.
>
> No, the way it works is:
> <copy from prior post on Mac group - <naughty JR>>
>
>      My Mac -> Apple (Xing international border; cc: CSIS, NSA)
>      Apple -> my iPhone (Xing international border; cc: NSA, CSIS)
>      my iPhone (SMS) -> my cellco.
>      my cellco -> his cellco.
>      his cellco -> his android.
>
> Reverse all that for messages coming the other way.

iMessage is encrypted, and as far as I know, the SMS sent from or to your 
Mac is using the same old encryption.

So
1. Your Mac -> Encrypt -> iCloud
2. iCloud -> iPhone -> Decrypt
3. Send to cell company (unencrypted)


-- 
Sandman[.net]

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#68348

On 2015-01-13, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> No, the way it works is:
><copy from prior post on Mac group - <naughty JR>>

Naughty JR?  : )

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#68407

On 2015.01.13 11:25 , Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2015-01-13, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> No, the way it works is:
>> <copy from prior post on Mac group - <naughty JR>>
>
> Naughty JR?  : )

Your Followup-to setting truncated the entire thread in this NG where it 
was legitimately x-posted to Mac/iPhone groups.


-- 
"Your net worth to the world is usually
  determined by what remains after your
  bad habits are subtracted from your good ones."
                                   Benjamin Franklin

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#68408

On 2015.01.14 08:05 , Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2015.01.13 11:25 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2015-01-13, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>> No, the way it works is:
>>> <copy from prior post on Mac group - <naughty JR>>
>>
>> Naughty JR?  : )
>
> Your Followup-to setting truncated the entire thread in this NG where it
> was legitimately x-posted to Mac/iPhone groups.

Did it again!  (And it's in the iPhone NG that it was truncated)....

-- 
"Your net worth to the world is usually
  determined by what remains after your
  bad habits are subtracted from your good ones."
                                   Benjamin Franklin

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#68410

On 2015-01-14, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2015.01.13 11:25 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2015-01-13, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>> No, the way it works is:
>>> <copy from prior post on Mac group - <naughty JR>>
>>
>> Naughty JR?  : )
>
> Your Followup-to setting truncated the entire thread in this NG where it 
> was legitimately x-posted to Mac/iPhone groups.

Oops - my bad. Sorry about that.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#68420

On 2015.01.14 09:52 , Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2015-01-14, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2015.01.13 11:25 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> On 2015-01-13, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>> No, the way it works is:
>>>> <copy from prior post on Mac group - <naughty JR>>
>>>
>>> Naughty JR?  : )
>>
>> Your Followup-to setting truncated the entire thread in this NG where it
>> was legitimately x-posted to Mac/iPhone groups.
>
> Oops - my bad. Sorry about that.

Have yourself spanked at your earliest convenience.  :)

-- 
"Your net worth to the world is usually
  determined by what remains after your
  bad habits are subtracted from your good ones."
                                   Benjamin Franklin

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#68385

Okay, so one time? In band camp? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> was all, like:
>      My Mac -> Apple (Xing international border; cc: CSIS, NSA)
>      Apple -> my iPhone (Xing international border; cc: NSA, CSIS)

On both of these steps the message is encrypted.

>      my iPhone (SMS) -> my cellco.

No encryption here.



-- 
The difference between science fiction and fantasy in this world is not any of
the elaborate rules that you hear. The difference is simply this: Science
Fiction has rivets, Fantasy has trees. -Orson Scott Card

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