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Time Machine: "Oldest backups are deleted when your disk becomes full."

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  Time Machine: "Oldest backups are deleted when your disk becomes full." Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-04-26 00:59 -0400
    Re: Time Machine: "Oldest backups are deleted when your disk becomes full." Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-04-26 01:21 -0400
    Re: Time Machine: "Oldest backups are deleted when your disk becomes full." David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2014-04-26 17:19 -0500
    Re: Time Machine: "Oldest backups are deleted when your disk becomes full." dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-04-27 11:15 +1200
      Re: Time Machine: "Oldest backups are deleted when your disk becomes full." Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> - 2014-04-27 00:01 +0000
      Re: Time Machine: "Oldest backups are deleted when your disk becomes full." nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-26 20:04 -0400
      Re: Time Machine: "Oldest backups are deleted when your disk becomes full." Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-04-27 21:26 -0400
    Re: Time Machine: "Oldest backups are deleted when your disk becomes full." J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2014-04-28 16:40 -0400

#58905 — Time Machine: "Oldest backups are deleted when your disk becomes full."

That's fine by me. I'm a backup paranoid after losing a WordStar
document from my Osborne I in 1982.

But it appears not to be working. TM says it can't backup because the
disk is too full. Based on the quote in the title, I expected it would
delete old backups to make room and go about its business.

What don't I know?

TIA!

-- 
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

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#58907

In article <260420140059398443%star@sky.net>, Davoud <star@sky.net> 
wrote:

> That's fine by me. I'm a backup paranoid after losing a WordStar
> document from my Osborne I in 1982.
> 
> But it appears not to be working. TM says it can't backup because the
> disk is too full. Based on the quote in the title, I expected it would
> delete old backups to make room and go about its business.
> 
> What don't I know?

Each backup only contains the files that changed since the previous 
backup. The way this is done is that all the filenames for unchanged 
files are hard links to the same file.

So when a backup is deleted, it only recovers space for the files that 
have newer versions in the next backup. If most of them didn't change, 
deleting the backup won't get you much space. This can easily happen if 
your disk is full of archives of images and movies that you never modify 
or delete -- all backups will be 90% the same stuff.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

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#58924

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Hash: SHA1

On Saturday, 26 April 2014 00:59 -0400, 
 in article <260420140059398443%star@sky.net>, 
 Davoud <star@sky.net> wrote:

On Saturday, 26 April 2014 00:59 -0400, 
 Davoud <star@sky.net> wrote:

> That's fine by me. I'm a backup paranoid after losing a WordStar 
> document from my Osborne I in 1982.

> But it appears not to be working. TM says it can't backup because 
> the disk is too full. Based on the quote in the title, I expected it 
> would delete old backups to make room and go about its business.

> What don't I know?

If you read the fine print, in the notice, it says that the deletion 
will take place, the next time Time Machine runs.  I have such a post 
deletion backup running, at this time.

- -- 
David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
 Be kind to animals; kiss a shark.

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#58927

Davoud <star@sky.net> wrote:

> That's fine by me. I'm a backup paranoid after losing a WordStar
> document from my Osborne I in 1982.
> 
> But it appears not to be working. TM says it can't backup because the
> disk is too full. Based on the quote in the title, I expected it would
> delete old backups to make room and go about its business.
> 
> What don't I know?

To clarify, there are two possible scenarios and I'm not sure which one
you are encountering.

(a) If you are trying to back up a new computer to a drive which is
already being used for Time Machine backups of other computers, then the
new backup can only start if there is enough free space. Time Machine
will only delete old backups from the same computer in order to free up
space for new backups.

Note that some instances of computer/drive replacement might result in
Time Machine thinking it needs to start a new backup rather than
continuing an existing one. (I encountered this once when I was running
somewhere around 10.5/10.6, but not when I had a similar situation
around the 10.8/10.9 timeframe, so Apple may have improved the logic in
later OS X versions.)

(b) If nothing out of the ordinary has happened and TM has just reached
the point where the backup disk is full, then it should be able to work
as advertised, by deleting the oldest backup (or several old backups) of
this computer to make room for the next backup.

If there has been a significant change on the computer, such as adding a
new large drive or lots of files on an existing drive that need to be
added to the backup (including moving or renaming a huge folder) this
can trigger a situation where TM thinks it can't delete enough old
backups to make room - it needs to be able to retain at least one old
backup.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#58930

On 2014-04-26, David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> Davoud <star@sky.net> wrote:
>
>> That's fine by me. I'm a backup paranoid after losing a WordStar
>> document from my Osborne I in 1982.
>>
>> But it appears not to be working. TM says it can't backup because the
>> disk is too full. Based on the quote in the title, I expected it would
>> delete old backups to make room and go about its business.
>>
>> What don't I know?
>
> To clarify, there are two possible scenarios and I'm not sure which one
> you are encountering.
>
> (a) If you are trying to back up a new computer to a drive which is
> already being used for Time Machine backups of other computers, then the
> new backup can only start if there is enough free space. Time Machine
> will only delete old backups from the same computer in order to free up
> space for new backups.
>
> Note that some instances of computer/drive replacement might result in
> Time Machine thinking it needs to start a new backup rather than
> continuing an existing one. (I encountered this once when I was running
> somewhere around 10.5/10.6, but not when I had a similar situation
> around the 10.8/10.9 timeframe, so Apple may have improved the logic in
> later OS X versions.)
>

In this case it may be possible to use the shell command:
inheritbackup {machine_directory | sparsebundle} ot accquire the old backup.

I used this technique to "inherit" a backup sparsebundle produced on an
old MacBook by its replacement.

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#58931

In article <1lkrd3n.11dmsa251ywt0N%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>, David Empson
<dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

> Note that some instances of computer/drive replacement might result in
> Time Machine thinking it needs to start a new backup rather than
> continuing an existing one. (I encountered this once when I was running
> somewhere around 10.5/10.6, but not when I had a similar situation
> around the 10.8/10.9 timeframe, so Apple may have improved the logic in
> later OS X versions.)

easily done using the command line utility tmutil in lion and later.

it's possible to do it in earlier systems but it's a pain in the ass.

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#58977

Davoud:
> > But it appears not to be working. TM says it can't backup because the
> > disk is too full. Based on the quote in the title, I expected it would
> > delete old backups to make room and go about its business.

David Empson:
> To clarify, there are two possible scenarios and I'm not sure which one
> you are encountering.
> 
> (a) If you are trying to back up a new computer...

Not the case.

> Note that some instances of computer/drive replacement

Not the case.

> (b) If nothing out of the ordinary has happened

That's the case, as far as I know.

> and TM has just reached
> the point where the backup disk is full, then it should be able to work
> as advertised, by deleting the oldest backup (or several old backups) of
> this computer to make room for the next backup.

That's my thinking. Simple enough, so I thought. I didn't understand
Mr. Margolin's explanation at all. It has been working all along.

> If there has been a significant change on the computer, such as adding a
> new large drive or lots of files on an existing drive

Not the case.

TM just quit working one day. April 24, to be specific.

I think that I'll erase the TM volume and turn it into a SuperDuper
backup volume. I've already got one of those for this machine; one more
can't hurt.

Thanks for taking time to reply.

-- 
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

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#58989

On 4/26/14, 12:59 AM, Davoud wrote:
> That's fine by me. I'm a backup paranoid after losing a WordStar
> document from my Osborne I in 1982.
>
> But it appears not to be working. TM says it can't backup because the
> disk is too full. Based on the quote in the title, I expected it would
> delete old backups to make room and go about its business.
>
> What don't I know?
>
> TIA!
>
What exactly does it say?  Sometimes when the big print says the disk is 
full, the fine print says it isn't because Time Machine deleted some old 
files.

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