Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #57731 > unrolled thread

PowerMac won't turn on after sitting in a cold bedroom

Back to article view | Back to comp.sys.mac.system

Contents

  PowerMac won't turn on after sitting in a cold bedroom super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> - 2014-03-07 21:36 -0600
    Re: PowerMac won't turn on after sitting in a cold bedroom Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-03-07 21:37 -0800
      Re: PowerMac won't turn on after sitting in a cold bedroom John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> - 2014-03-08 16:17 -0500
        Re: PowerMac won't turn on after sitting in a cold bedroom Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-03-09 12:12 +1300
          Re: PowerMac won't turn on after sitting in a cold bedroom super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> - 2014-03-09 17:17 -0500
            Re: PowerMac won't turn on after sitting in a cold bedroom Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-09 23:06 +0000
              Re: PowerMac won't turn on after sitting in a cold bedroom super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> - 2014-03-09 18:26 -0500
                Re: PowerMac won't turn on after sitting in a cold bedroom super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> - 2014-03-09 18:53 -0500
                  Re: PowerMac won't turn on after sitting in a cold bedroom Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-10 00:48 +0000
                    Re: PowerMac won't turn on after sitting in a cold bedroom super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> - 2014-03-09 20:58 -0500
                      Re: PowerMac won't turn on after sitting in a cold bedroom Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-03-10 16:49 +1300
                        Re: PowerMac won't turn on after sitting in a cold bedroom Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-10 15:30 +0000
                          Re: PowerMac won't turn on after sitting in a cold bedroom Barry OGrady <atheist@hotmail.com.au> - 2014-03-22 10:54 +1100
                            Re: PowerMac won't turn on after sitting in a cold bedroom Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-22 01:18 +0000
                        Re: PowerMac won't turn on after sitting in a cold bedroom Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-03-10 17:05 -0400
                          Re: PowerMac won't turn on after sitting in a cold bedroom nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-10 17:41 -0400
                            Re: PowerMac won't turn on after sitting in a cold bedroom "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2014-03-11 01:29 +0000
                              Re: PowerMac won't turn on after sitting in a cold bedroom nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-10 21:48 -0400
                                Re: PowerMac won't turn on after sitting in a cold bedroom "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2014-03-11 05:49 +0000
                                  Re: PowerMac won't turn on after sitting in a cold bedroom nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-11 02:12 -0400
                      Re: PowerMac won't turn on after sitting in a cold bedroom Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-10 15:28 +0000

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

#57731 — PowerMac won't turn on after sitting in a cold bedroom

I own a couple of PowerMac Desktop M8573LL's, one as a backup I keep in 
a spare bedroom that I don't keep heated.

The one in the bedroom was working fine when I last turned it on, but I 
probably haven't used it since November.

Now suddenly it refuses to start, both from the "touch-on" from the 
monitor and also directly from the computer.

I tried switching out the batteries from my primary one that I use 
regularly, but it still won't turn on.

I was just wondering if anyone knows another reason why it wouldn't turn 
on, maybe related to sitting in the cold for a few months.

TIA

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#57734

On 2014-03-08 03:36:14 +0000, super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> said:

> I own a couple of PowerMac Desktop M8573LL's, one as a backup I keep in
> a spare bedroom that I don't keep heated.
> 
> The one in the bedroom was working fine when I last turned it on, but I
> probably haven't used it since November.
> 
> Now suddenly it refuses to start, both from the "touch-on" from the
> monitor and also directly from the computer.
> 
> I tried switching out the batteries from my primary one that I use
> regularly, but it still won't turn on.
> 
> I was just wondering if anyone knows another reason why it wouldn't turn
> on, maybe related to sitting in the cold for a few months.
> 
> TIA


You could try zapping the PRAM by holding down 
"Option"+"Command"+"P"+"R". That should give you a triple start-up 
chime before you release those keys. If there is no response I suspect 
you might have a dead PRAM battery. Those are pretty old computers and 
the time might have come to replace that battery.
< http://www.academ.com/info/macintosh/ >
< http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-10330118-263.html >

-- 
Regards,

Savageduck

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57745

On 3/8/14 12:37 AM, Savageduck wrote:
> I suspect you might have a dead PRAM battery. Those are
> pretty old computers and the time might have come to replace
> that battery.

Here's another suggestion to check the battery (if you have 
the means to test it), or, just replace it.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57749

In article <531b88d5$0$25701$862e30e2@ngroups.net>, John Albert
<j.albert@snet.net> wrote:
> On 3/8/14 12:37 AM, Savageduck wrote:
> >
> > I suspect you might have a dead PRAM battery. Those are
> > pretty old computers and the time might have come to replace
> > that battery.
> 
> Here's another suggestion to check the battery (if you have 
> the means to test it), or, just replace it.

The original post did say that they had taken the bettery out of a
working PowerMac and put it in the non-working one, and it still didn't
work.

On my PowerMac a dead battery simply causes the date (and other minor
settings) to be incorrect, but the computer does still startup and work
fine. Replacing it on my model is a simple task of just swaping the old
battery for a new one (made a bit fiddlier by having to remove a card),
but I have read that in some models you also have to muck about pushing
a reset button on the motherboard, etc., which might be what the
original person didn't do.

Possibly the battery sitting in the unused PowerMac leaked and corroded
some of the contacts, but that would probably be easily noticeable when
changing the battery.

Other than that, I would guess a dead power supply, which is unlikely
to be anything to do with the coldness of the room (unless perhaps it
was literally freezing and thawing, causing some form of water damage).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57800

In article <090320141212216386%YourName@YourISP.com>,
 Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> Other than that, I would guess a dead power supply, which is unlikely
> to be anything to do with the coldness of the room (unless perhaps it
> was literally freezing and thawing, causing some form of water damage).

Yeah that's what I was thinking too. Can anybody recommend a good place 
to order one of those? Hopefully they aren't too scarce for this 2003 
vintage computer.

And are they pretty easy to install? Since this is my backup computer 
I'd hate to pay some big charge to have someone else do it.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57804

On 2014-03-09, super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
> In article <090320141212216386%YourName@YourISP.com>,
>  Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>
>> Other than that, I would guess a dead power supply, which is unlikely
>> to be anything to do with the coldness of the room (unless perhaps it
>> was literally freezing and thawing, causing some form of water damage).
>
> Yeah that's what I was thinking too. Can anybody recommend a good place 
> to order one of those? Hopefully they aren't too scarce for this 2003 
> vintage computer.

Here are some places to get you started:

<http://apple-parts.com>
<http://applecomponents.com>
<http://www.applemacdeals.com>
<http://www.applepalace.com>
<http://www.dvwarehouse.com>
<http://www.sunsetmac.com> (seems to be malfunctioning at the moment)
<http://www.welovemacs.com>

And for repair how-to and system info:

<http://www.ifixit.com>
<http://everymac.com>
<http://www.applerepairmanuals.com>

> And are they pretty easy to install? Since this is my backup computer 
> I'd hate to pay some big charge to have someone else do it.

This Youtube video apparently shows what is involved: 

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEfNH1DaJUo>

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57809

Thanks for all that.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57812

I just watched the video, good lord. I think I'd be better off buying 
another used M8573LL. I only paid $100 each for both of the ones I own.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57819

On 2014-03-09, super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
> I just watched the video, good lord. I think I'd be better off buying 
> another used M8573LL. I only paid $100 each for both of the ones I own.

eBay is great for that. You may even find the power supply itself for
sale there.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57827

In article <bo4gemF8100U5@mid.individual.net>,
 Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2014-03-09, super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
> > I just watched the video, good lord. I think I'd be better off buying 
> > another used M8573LL. I only paid $100 each for both of the ones I own.
> 
> eBay is great for that. You may even find the power supply itself for
> sale there.

Yeah I notice people are even trying to sell G4 power supplies that 
don't work, can you believe that.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57833

In article <super70s-0DC9E7.20582009032014@bonxibon.datemas.de>,
super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
> In article <bo4gemF8100U5@mid.individual.net>,
>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> > On 2014-03-09, super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
> > >
> > > I just watched the video, good lord. I think I'd be better off buying 
> > > another used M8573LL. I only paid $100 each for both of the ones I own.
> > 
> > eBay is great for that. You may even find the power supply itself for
> > sale there.
> 
> Yeah I notice people are even trying to sell G4 power supplies that 
> don't work, can you believe that.

Some people do open up and repair broken power supplies, but I wouldn't
recommend it.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57844

On 2014-03-10, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> In article <super70s-0DC9E7.20582009032014@bonxibon.datemas.de>,
> super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>> In article <bo4gemF8100U5@mid.individual.net>,
>>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> > On 2014-03-09, super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I just watched the video, good lord. I think I'd be better off buying 
>> > > another used M8573LL. I only paid $100 each for both of the ones I own.
>> > 
>> > eBay is great for that. You may even find the power supply itself for
>> > sale there.
>> 
>> Yeah I notice people are even trying to sell G4 power supplies that 
>> don't work, can you believe that.
>
> Some people do open up and repair broken power supplies, but I wouldn't
> recommend it.

I've done it. I've successfully replaced bad caps in several iMacs, one
including a caps that exploded inside of the power supply. I've also
sent iMac motherboards to http://www.badcaps.net to be refurbished, with
great results.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#58041

On 10 Mar 2014 15:30:20 GMT, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

>On 2014-03-10, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>> In article <super70s-0DC9E7.20582009032014@bonxibon.datemas.de>,
>> super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>>> In article <bo4gemF8100U5@mid.individual.net>,
>>>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>> > On 2014-03-09, super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > I just watched the video, good lord. I think I'd be better off buying 
>>> > > another used M8573LL. I only paid $100 each for both of the ones I own.
>>> > 
>>> > eBay is great for that. You may even find the power supply itself for
>>> > sale there.
>>> 
>>> Yeah I notice people are even trying to sell G4 power supplies that 
>>> don't work, can you believe that.
>>
>> Some people do open up and repair broken power supplies, but I wouldn't
>> recommend it.
>
>I've done it. I've successfully replaced bad caps in several iMacs, one
>including a caps that exploded inside of the power supply. I've also
>sent iMac motherboards to http://www.badcaps.net to be refurbished, with
>great results.

I have an early Intel Imac that works sometimes then shuts off
suddenly. Is that likely to be the power supply?

-- 
Creationists only need know that
Evolution is important proven science
and
creation is made up nonsense

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#58049

On 2014-03-21, Barry OGrady <atheist@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
> On 10 Mar 2014 15:30:20 GMT, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2014-03-10, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>> In article <super70s-0DC9E7.20582009032014@bonxibon.datemas.de>,
>>> super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>>>> In article <bo4gemF8100U5@mid.individual.net>,
>>>>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>> > On 2014-03-09, super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I just watched the video, good lord. I think I'd be better off buying 
>>>> > > another used M8573LL. I only paid $100 each for both of the ones I own.
>>>> > 
>>>> > eBay is great for that. You may even find the power supply itself for
>>>> > sale there.
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah I notice people are even trying to sell G4 power supplies that 
>>>> don't work, can you believe that.
>>>
>>> Some people do open up and repair broken power supplies, but I wouldn't
>>> recommend it.
>>
>>I've done it. I've successfully replaced bad caps in several iMacs, one
>>including a caps that exploded inside of the power supply. I've also
>>sent iMac motherboards to http://www.badcaps.net to be refurbished, with
>>great results.
>
> I have an early Intel Imac that works sometimes then shuts off
> suddenly. Is that likely to be the power supply?

That's the primary symptom, yep. I've repaired a couple iMacs with
busted capacitors inside of the power supplies (as well as busted caps
on the motherboards). Those iMacs are both still chugging along today
(knock on wood).


-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57865

On 2014.03.09, 23:49 , Your Name wrote:
> In article <super70s-0DC9E7.20582009032014@bonxibon.datemas.de>,
> super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>> In article <bo4gemF8100U5@mid.individual.net>,
>>   Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>> On 2014-03-09, super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I just watched the video, good lord. I think I'd be better off buying
>>>> another used M8573LL. I only paid $100 each for both of the ones I own.
>>>
>>> eBay is great for that. You may even find the power supply itself for
>>> sale there.
>>
>> Yeah I notice people are even trying to sell G4 power supplies that
>> don't work, can you believe that.
>
> Some people do open up and repair broken power supplies, but I wouldn't
> recommend it.

Other than not touching the capacitor leads (and preferably discharging 
them with a resistor) there's no reason not to.

-- 
   Those who have reduced our privacy, whether they are state
   or commercial actors, prefer that we do not reduce theirs.
                  - Jaron Lanier, Scientific American, 2013.11.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57869

In article <hK-dnSiU7aGKtIPOnZ2dnUVZ_rKdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> > Some people do open up and repair broken power supplies, but I wouldn't
> > recommend it.
> 
> Other than not touching the capacitor leads (and preferably discharging 
> them with a resistor) there's no reason not to.

the capacitors in a power supply are small enough where they won't hold
a charge for very long and the voltages are low anyway. touching them
is a non-issue, but if you're really worried, leave it unplugged for a
short time.

a flyback transformer, on the other hand, can hold a charge for a
while. those need special care.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57879

nospam wrote:
>
> a flyback transformer, on the other hand, can hold a charge for a
> while. those need special care.

It isn't the flyback, it's the CRT connected to it. That can hold lethal
voltages for years.

The standard procedure was to use a screwdriver wired to ground (the metal
parts of the TV chassis) to discharge it. Lots of spark and a loud bang.

No harm done except for some wet pants if you did not touch the anything
except the insulated handle of the screwdriver. 

The original Macintosh had a problem were there was an IC in the circuit that
the spark would destroy. The only safe way was to discharge it relatively
slowly with a probe containing a 1 mega ohm resistor in it.

Apple eventually wised up, and the SE used a flyback with a bleeder resistor
in it, so that after about 10 minutes, the CRT was completely discharged
and safe. It may been sooner, buy I am overly cautious.

The simple way to tell on compact Macs, was if the power supply was enclosed, 
the flyback had a bleeder. If it was discrete components, it did not.

Geoff.




-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson,  N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57880

In article <slrnlhspe2.d2q.gsm@cable.mendelson.com>, Geoffrey S.
Mendelson <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote:

> > a flyback transformer, on the other hand, can hold a charge for a
> > while. those need special care.
> 
> It isn't the flyback, it's the CRT connected to it. That can hold lethal
> voltages for years.

not years and the distinction is not important. it's discharged via the
anode cap. 

> The standard procedure was to use a screwdriver wired to ground (the metal
> parts of the TV chassis) to discharge it. Lots of spark and a loud bang.

that's a dumb way to do it, although effective.

> No harm done except for some wet pants if you did not touch the anything
> except the insulated handle of the screwdriver. 

big if and potentially more than wet pants. 

> The original Macintosh had a problem were there was an IC in the circuit that
> the spark would destroy.

any chip can be destroyed by a spark and one far weaker than what you
get off a crt/flyback.

> The only safe way was to discharge it relatively
> slowly with a probe containing a 1 mega ohm resistor in it.

yes.

> Apple eventually wised up, and the SE used a flyback with a bleeder resistor
> in it, so that after about 10 minutes, the CRT was completely discharged
> and safe. It may been sooner, buy I am overly cautious.

that's a better design and not just for macs. 

apple should have had that all along.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57885

nospam wrote:

> that's a dumb way to do it, although effective.

It was well documented in the TV service manuals of the 1950's and 1960's.
Dumb, yes, common, yes too.

> any chip can be destroyed by a spark and one far weaker than what you
> get off a crt/flyback.

Sure, but the Mac had a chip in the circuit where it would happen.
TV sets and computer monitors based on them did not. 

It may have been placed there on purpose to prevent non Apple techs from
working on them. Apple did all sorts of things like that, the other 
glaring one was the keyboard cable. Everyone in the world except Apple used
a reversed cable in that size, and they were plentiful and cheap. 

Use one on your Mac, and you have to replace an IC in the keyboard.

Another fix in the SE, the ADB, but I think that came with the Mac II,
which was earlier. I know there was a problem with plugging or unplugging
the ADB interface with the power on, but don't remember which. Either way
it was a bad design, later fixed.

Geoff.

-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson,  N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57886

In article <slrnlht8s2.jus.gsm@cable.mendelson.com>, Geoffrey S.
Mendelson <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote:

> > any chip can be destroyed by a spark and one far weaker than what you
> > get off a crt/flyback.
> 
> Sure, but the Mac had a chip in the circuit where it would happen.
> TV sets and computer monitors based on them did not. 

tvs and computer monitors of that era were analog devices and didn't
have chips that would be destroyed by a spark (although anything could
given a big enough spark).

> It may have been placed there on purpose to prevent non Apple techs from
> working on them. Apple did all sorts of things like that, the other 
> glaring one was the keyboard cable. Everyone in the world except Apple used
> a reversed cable in that size, and they were plentiful and cheap. 
> 
> Use one on your Mac, and you have to replace an IC in the keyboard.

that makes no sense whatsoever. the keyboard is not only detachable,
but there's no way a charge on the crt would affect it even if it was
attached.

> Another fix in the SE, the ADB, but I think that came with the Mac II,
> which was earlier. I know there was a problem with plugging or unplugging
> the ADB interface with the power on, but don't remember which. Either way
> it was a bad design, later fixed.

adb was never designed to be hotplugged.

it enumerated the adb bus on startup, however, that could be manually
updated by an app, which was often done with adb related software.

hotplugging had the potential of blowing a fuse but that rarely
happened unless it was a device that mooched power, such as the adb
hard drives. there even were serial port jumpers to mooch power off
that port instead.

adb was later modified to be hotpluggable with g3 macs, about 10 years
after it first came out.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | comp.sys.mac.system

csiph-web