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Drobo end days.

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  Drobo end days. Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-19 17:17 -0500
    Re: Drobo end days. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-19 23:09 +0000
      Re: Drobo end days. Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-19 20:03 -0500
        Re: Drobo end days. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-20 02:12 +0000
          Re: Drobo end days. Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2014-02-19 19:54 -0800
            Re: Drobo end days. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-20 04:49 +0000
          Re: Drobo end days. Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-20 17:16 -0500
            Re: Drobo end days. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-20 23:41 +0000
              Re: Drobo end days. Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-20 20:13 -0500
            Re: Drobo end days. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-20 23:45 +0000
              Re: Drobo end days. Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-20 20:17 -0500
            Re: Drobo end days. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-20 23:48 +0000
              Re: Drobo end days. Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-20 20:15 -0500
              Re: Drobo end days. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-21 01:39 +0000
            Re: Drobo end days. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-20 23:52 +0000
        Re: Drobo end days. Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2014-02-19 20:53 -0800
          Re: Drobo end days. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-20 16:21 +0000
          Re: Drobo end days. Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-20 17:24 -0500
            Re: Drobo end days. Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2014-02-25 10:43 -0800
          Re: Drobo end days. Kaltsas, Alexander G - 2014-02-27 13:44 -0600
            Re: Drobo end days. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-27 21:15 +0000
              Re: Drobo end days. Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-27 17:42 -0500
                Re: Drobo end days. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-27 23:32 +0000
                  Re: Drobo end days. Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-27 18:49 -0500
                    Re: Drobo end days. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-27 23:54 +0000
                  Re: Drobo end days. Kaltsas, Alexander G <macdude22@yahoo.com> - 2014-02-28 08:13 -0600
                Re: Drobo end days. Kaltsas, Alexander G <macdude22@yahoo.com> - 2014-02-28 08:01 -0600
                Re: Drobo end days. Kaltsas, Alexander G <macdude22@yahoo.com> - 2014-02-28 08:21 -0600
                  Re: Drobo end days. Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-28 16:37 -0500
            Re: Drobo end days. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-27 21:55 +0000
              Re: Drobo end days. Kaltsas, Alexander G <macdude22@yahoo.com> - 2014-02-28 08:03 -0600
      Re: Drobo end days. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-20 15:30 +0000
        Re: Drobo end days. Kaltsas, Alexander G <macdude22@yahoo.com> - 2014-02-28 08:16 -0600
          Re: Drobo end days. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-28 23:25 +0000
        Re: Drobo end days. Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-28 16:44 -0500

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

#56722 — Drobo end days.

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.
It was the surety of backup redundancy and the risk of single point 
failure...

I am selling my first gen (2nd edition) Drobo.  I can't find a partner 
nearby with a similar (or compatible, at least) Drobo in case the 
electronics goes T-U on this one.

I've ordered two Thermaltake dual drive SATA docks (USB 3.0) to replace 
the current Drobo and my USB 2.0 based dual drive dock.

I'll sell the Drobo (with 1 and 2 TB drives) and keep the two 3 TB 
drives for the new USB 3.0 docks.

As a side note I've bought an Anker 7 port USB 3.0 hub as well - but the 
USB 3.0 drives will both go directly to the iMac.  My prior 7 port USB 
2.0 hub was becoming intermittent.

-- 
   Privacy has become an essential personal chore that most
   people are not trained to perform.
                  - Jaron Lanier, Scientific American, 2013.11.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#56724

On 2014-02-19, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
> It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.
> It was the surety of backup redundancy and the risk of single point 
> failure...
>
> I am selling my first gen (2nd edition) Drobo.  I can't find a partner 
> nearby with a similar (or compatible, at least) Drobo in case the 
> electronics goes T-U on this one.

If mine goes out, I'll just purchase a replacement. I'll be back up and
running in a matter of days, which is perfectly sufficient for me. And
if and when it becomes insufficient, I'll just purchase a second Drobo
to run along side this one. 

> I've ordered two Thermaltake dual drive SATA docks (USB 3.0) to replace 
> the current Drobo and my USB 2.0 based dual drive dock.

That's a definite step down, IMO; but whatever floats your boat.

You could have done better purchasing two Drobos. So I guess it's really
about money for you.

> I'll sell the Drobo (with 1 and 2 TB drives) and keep the two 3 TB 
> drives for the new USB 3.0 docks.

I'm sure whoever buys it will enjoy the data redundancy it offers.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#56727

On 2014.02.19, 18:09 , Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2014-02-19, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>
>> It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.
>> It was the surety of backup redundancy and the risk of single point
>> failure...
>>
>> I am selling my first gen (2nd edition) Drobo.  I can't find a partner
>> nearby with a similar (or compatible, at least) Drobo in case the
>> electronics goes T-U on this one.
>
> If mine goes out, I'll just purchase a replacement. I'll be back up and
> running in a matter of days, which is perfectly sufficient for me. And
> if and when it becomes insufficient, I'll just purchase a second Drobo
> to run along side this one.
>
>> I've ordered two Thermaltake dual drive SATA docks (USB 3.0) to replace
>> the current Drobo and my USB 2.0 based dual drive dock.
>
> That's a definite step down, IMO; but whatever floats your boat.

I don't see the "down" at all.  I can manually swap drives around and 
have the redundancy (while maintaining TM for short term bu).

> You could have done better purchasing two Drobos. So I guess it's really
> about money for you.

Indeed part of it.  Given the cost of hard disks, it's cheaper in any 
sense to simply rotate hard disks in and out using a hard disk dock and 
for that matter making two copies at a time.  Further with USB 3.0 the 
copy times are going to be relatively short.

(The Drobo for all its glory is not esp. fast - even with FW-800.  Only 
a hair faster than the USB 2.0 docks/drives that I have for direct copying.)

There's really no "gain" in going with the Drobo or buying a new one and 
retaining the single point of failure.  Buying 2 is out of the question. 
  I have much better places for that cash.

>> I'll sell the Drobo (with 1 and 2 TB drives) and keep the two 3 TB
>> drives for the new USB 3.0 docks.
>
> I'm sure whoever buys it will enjoy the data redundancy it offers.

Until it fails.  I've had zero replies on Craigslist (indeed I should go 
refresh the advert.  It's probably expired).  But the local computer 
repair shop will happily put it up for sale.  I sold my other iMac there.

-- 
   Those who have reduced our privacy, whether they are state
   or commercial actors, prefer that we do not reduce theirs.
                  - Jaron Lanier, Scientific American, 2013.11.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#56728

On 2014-02-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2014.02.19, 18:09 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2014-02-19, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>> It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.
>>> It was the surety of backup redundancy and the risk of single point
>>> failure...
>>>
>>> I am selling my first gen (2nd edition) Drobo.  I can't find a partner
>>> nearby with a similar (or compatible, at least) Drobo in case the
>>> electronics goes T-U on this one.
>>
>> If mine goes out, I'll just purchase a replacement. I'll be back up and
>> running in a matter of days, which is perfectly sufficient for me. And
>> if and when it becomes insufficient, I'll just purchase a second Drobo
>> to run along side this one.
>>
>>> I've ordered two Thermaltake dual drive SATA docks (USB 3.0) to replace
>>> the current Drobo and my USB 2.0 based dual drive dock.
>>
>> That's a definite step down, IMO; but whatever floats your boat.
>
> I don't see the "down" at all.  I can manually swap drives around and 
> have the redundancy (while maintaining TM for short term bu).

You don't see any difference between the data safety features of the
Drobo and a standard drive dock or enclosure? That makes me wonder why
you ever purchased a Drobo to begin with. I can only surmise the ability
to add and swap drives of varying size, replace bad drives, and so on
with zero interruption and zero loss of access to your data must not be
very valuable to you. You won't get the same level of redundancy or ease
of use with drive docks or plain enclosures. It's perfectly fine if you
don't appreciate the benefits of the Drobo; but there are rather
significant benefit none the less. Those benefits are extremely valuable
to me, which is primarily why I purchased and love mine.

>> You could have done better purchasing two Drobos. So I guess it's really
>> about money for you.
>
> Indeed part of it.  

Seems like a major part of it.

> Given the cost of hard disks, it's cheaper in any sense to simply
> rotate hard disks in and out using a hard disk dock and for that
> matter making two copies at a time.  Further with USB 3.0 the copy
> times are going to be relatively short.
>
> (The Drobo for all its glory is not esp. fast - even with FW-800.
> Only a hair faster than the USB 2.0 docks/drives that I have for
> direct copying.)

If you bought a Drobo for speed, you bought the wrong solution. The
majority of the Drobo's features are geared towards data safety - not
speed. Older models such as yours have always been known to be rather
slow compared to plain hard drives. Newer models that include SSD
support are blazing fast though. Anyhow, I find my DroboS plenty fast
enough for all of my needs, and relatively worry-free in comparison to
plain hard drives.

> There's really no "gain" in going with the Drobo or buying a new one and 
> retaining the single point of failure.  Buying 2 is out of the question. 
>   I have much better places for that cash.

All well and good. You're choosing to sacrifice the primary benefits of
the Drobo to save a buck. That doesn't magically make those benefits
vanish into thin air though. 

>>> I'll sell the Drobo (with 1 and 2 TB drives) and keep the two 3 TB
>>> drives for the new USB 3.0 docks.
>>
>> I'm sure whoever buys it will enjoy the data redundancy it offers.
>
> Until it fails.

Your logic is confusing. If and when your Thermaltake fails, you'll need
to buy another on of those as well. Same issue there. So you haven't
improved that problem one bit - except for cost, which seems to be your
primary motive. All you've done is saved yourself some money, and in the
process, dropped all the benefits of the Drobo. That's cool, if that's
what you want; but it doesn't mean the Thermaltake is equivalent or that
the benefits of the Drobo are non-existent.

> I've had zero replies on Craigslist (indeed I should go 
> refresh the advert.  It's probably expired).

I bet you'd have much better luck on eBay. I got $425 for my Drobo 2nd
gen on eBay back in 2010 which went towards a new DroboS. Great upgrade!
: )

> But the local computer repair shop will happily put it up for sale.  I
> sold my other iMac there.

Cool. Good luck.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#56730

In article <bml6l3F4r8cU1@mid.individual.net>,
 Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2014-02-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> > On 2014.02.19, 18:09 , Jolly Roger wrote:
> >> On 2014-02-19, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.
> >>> It was the surety of backup redundancy and the risk of single point
> >>> failure...
> >>>
> >>> I am selling my first gen (2nd edition) Drobo.  I can't find a partner
> >>> nearby with a similar (or compatible, at least) Drobo in case the
> >>> electronics goes T-U on this one.
> >>
> >> If mine goes out, I'll just purchase a replacement. I'll be back up and
> >> running in a matter of days, which is perfectly sufficient for me. And
> >> if and when it becomes insufficient, I'll just purchase a second Drobo
> >> to run along side this one.
> >>
> >>> I've ordered two Thermaltake dual drive SATA docks (USB 3.0) to replace
> >>> the current Drobo and my USB 2.0 based dual drive dock.
> >>
> >> That's a definite step down, IMO; but whatever floats your boat.
> >
> > I don't see the "down" at all.  I can manually swap drives around and 
> > have the redundancy (while maintaining TM for short term bu).
> 
> You don't see any difference between the data safety features of the
> Drobo and a standard drive dock or enclosure? That makes me wonder why
> you ever purchased a Drobo to begin with. I can only surmise the ability
> to add and swap drives of varying size, replace bad drives, and so on
> with zero interruption and zero loss of access to your data must not be
> very valuable to you. You won't get the same level of redundancy or ease
> of use with drive docks or plain enclosures. It's perfectly fine if you
> don't appreciate the benefits of the Drobo; but there are rather
> significant benefit none the less. Those benefits are extremely valuable
> to me, which is primarily why I purchased and love mine.


The problem is what happens when the Drobo itself dies out of warranty.  
The current model of 4-bay Drobo uses laptop drives so it's not 
compatible with the FW800 model.  That means you need a $600 5-bay Drobo 
to restore your RAID.  Having the purchase a new $600 gizmo might clash 
with the idea that RAID 5 is for reducing hassles.

Another selling point of a Drobo is that you can expand it by replacing 
the drives rather than buying a whole new RAID.  If you do the math, 
buying a new RAID can be cheaper.


The Drobos are awesome enclosures but they're not always economical.  (I 
have two Drobos and two plain RAIDs.)






> >> You could have done better purchasing two Drobos. So I guess it's really
> >> about money for you.
> >
> > Indeed part of it.  
> 
> Seems like a major part of it.
> 
> > Given the cost of hard disks, it's cheaper in any sense to simply
> > rotate hard disks in and out using a hard disk dock and for that
> > matter making two copies at a time.  Further with USB 3.0 the copy
> > times are going to be relatively short.
> >
> > (The Drobo for all its glory is not esp. fast - even with FW-800.
> > Only a hair faster than the USB 2.0 docks/drives that I have for
> > direct copying.)
> 
> If you bought a Drobo for speed, you bought the wrong solution. The
> majority of the Drobo's features are geared towards data safety - not
> speed. Older models such as yours have always been known to be rather
> slow compared to plain hard drives. Newer models that include SSD
> support are blazing fast though. Anyhow, I find my DroboS plenty fast
> enough for all of my needs, and relatively worry-free in comparison to
> plain hard drives.
> 
> > There's really no "gain" in going with the Drobo or buying a new one and 
> > retaining the single point of failure.  Buying 2 is out of the question. 
> >   I have much better places for that cash.
> 
> All well and good. You're choosing to sacrifice the primary benefits of
> the Drobo to save a buck. That doesn't magically make those benefits
> vanish into thin air though. 
> 
> >>> I'll sell the Drobo (with 1 and 2 TB drives) and keep the two 3 TB
> >>> drives for the new USB 3.0 docks.
> >>
> >> I'm sure whoever buys it will enjoy the data redundancy it offers.
> >
> > Until it fails.
> 
> Your logic is confusing. If and when your Thermaltake fails, you'll need
> to buy another on of those as well. Same issue there. So you haven't
> improved that problem one bit - except for cost, which seems to be your
> primary motive. All you've done is saved yourself some money, and in the
> process, dropped all the benefits of the Drobo. That's cool, if that's
> what you want; but it doesn't mean the Thermaltake is equivalent or that
> the benefits of the Drobo are non-existent.
> 
> > I've had zero replies on Craigslist (indeed I should go 
> > refresh the advert.  It's probably expired).
> 
> I bet you'd have much better luck on eBay. I got $425 for my Drobo 2nd
> gen on eBay back in 2010 which went towards a new DroboS. Great upgrade!
> : )
> 
> > But the local computer repair shop will happily put it up for sale.  I
> > sold my other iMac there.
> 
> Cool. Good luck.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#56731

On 2014-02-20, Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> wrote:
> In article <bml6l3F4r8cU1@mid.individual.net>,
>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2014-02-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> > On 2014.02.19, 18:09 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>> >> On 2014-02-19, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.
>> >>> It was the surety of backup redundancy and the risk of single point
>> >>> failure...
>> >>>
>> >>> I am selling my first gen (2nd edition) Drobo.  I can't find a partner
>> >>> nearby with a similar (or compatible, at least) Drobo in case the
>> >>> electronics goes T-U on this one.
>> >>
>> >> If mine goes out, I'll just purchase a replacement. I'll be back up and
>> >> running in a matter of days, which is perfectly sufficient for me. And
>> >> if and when it becomes insufficient, I'll just purchase a second Drobo
>> >> to run along side this one.
>> >>
>> >>> I've ordered two Thermaltake dual drive SATA docks (USB 3.0) to replace
>> >>> the current Drobo and my USB 2.0 based dual drive dock.
>> >>
>> >> That's a definite step down, IMO; but whatever floats your boat.
>> >
>> > I don't see the "down" at all.  I can manually swap drives around and 
>> > have the redundancy (while maintaining TM for short term bu).
>> 
>> You don't see any difference between the data safety features of the
>> Drobo and a standard drive dock or enclosure? That makes me wonder why
>> you ever purchased a Drobo to begin with. I can only surmise the ability
>> to add and swap drives of varying size, replace bad drives, and so on
>> with zero interruption and zero loss of access to your data must not be
>> very valuable to you. You won't get the same level of redundancy or ease
>> of use with drive docks or plain enclosures. It's perfectly fine if you
>> don't appreciate the benefits of the Drobo; but there are rather
>> significant benefit none the less. Those benefits are extremely valuable
>> to me, which is primarily why I purchased and love mine.
>
> The problem is what happens when the Drobo itself dies out of warranty.  
> The current model of 4-bay Drobo uses laptop drives so it's not 
> compatible with the FW800 model.  That means you need a $600 5-bay Drobo 
> to restore your RAID.  Having the purchase a new $600 gizmo might clash 
> with the idea that RAID 5 is for reducing hassles.

That's something you should consider up front *before* purchasing one,
is it not? ; )

> Another selling point of a Drobo is that you can expand it by replacing 
> the drives rather than buying a whole new RAID.  If you do the math, 
> buying a new RAID can be cheaper.

I don't see how. You can sell the drives you take out of it, if they
still work, making up for the cost of the new drives.

> The Drobos are awesome enclosures but they're not always economical.  (I 
> have two Drobos and two plain RAIDs.)

Right. If cost is your primary concern, you probably shouldn't buy a

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#56772

On 2014.02.19, 21:12 , Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2014-02-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2014.02.19, 18:09 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> On 2014-02-19, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.
>>>> It was the surety of backup redundancy and the risk of single point
>>>> failure...
>>>>
>>>> I am selling my first gen (2nd edition) Drobo.  I can't find a partner
>>>> nearby with a similar (or compatible, at least) Drobo in case the
>>>> electronics goes T-U on this one.
>>>
>>> If mine goes out, I'll just purchase a replacement. I'll be back up and
>>> running in a matter of days, which is perfectly sufficient for me. And
>>> if and when it becomes insufficient, I'll just purchase a second Drobo
>>> to run along side this one.
>>>
>>>> I've ordered two Thermaltake dual drive SATA docks (USB 3.0) to replace
>>>> the current Drobo and my USB 2.0 based dual drive dock.
>>>
>>> That's a definite step down, IMO; but whatever floats your boat.
>>
>> I don't see the "down" at all.  I can manually swap drives around and
>> have the redundancy (while maintaining TM for short term bu).
>
> You don't see any difference between the data safety features of the
> Drobo and a standard drive dock or enclosure? That makes me wonder why
> you ever purchased a Drobo to begin with. I can only surmise the ability
> to add and swap drives of varying size, replace bad drives, and so on
> with zero interruption and zero loss of access to your data must not be
> very valuable to you. You won't get the same level of redundancy or ease

My data (valuable to me) won't be any more at risk.

When last year, I had three 1 TB drives go TU over the course of 6 
months, it was very _convenient_ to simply slip in a new (larger) HD and 
let the Drobo work out the details.

But - it was not _ESSENTIAL_ to have that convenience.

And given that I don't have a 2nd Drobo in case this one dies, there is 
no safety.  I'm not laying out another $500+ just to cover that gap.

Going to a redundant backup and if one of those drives fail, then I will 
lose no time with the other drive.  It will be there ready and waiting. 
  And I'll have TM running on yet another drive for short term recovery 
if needed.  (That at least is convenient when rolling back a major edit 
if one hasn't kept older versions).

No loss of time other than every couple weeks rotating out drives to 
store offsite (something I used to do and I have not been doing for a 
few years other than project DVD's).

> of use with drive docks or plain enclosures. It's perfectly fine if you
> don't appreciate the benefits of the Drobo; but there are rather
> significant benefit none the less. Those benefits are extremely valuable
> to me, which is primarily why I purchased and love mine.
>
>>> You could have done better purchasing two Drobos. So I guess it's really
>>> about money for you.
>>
>> Indeed part of it.
>
> Seems like a major part of it.

You seem intent on harping at the $ cost.  This is not a professional 
operation here.  I'm not made of money.  I'm not a 1%er.  I have to 
allocate discretionary money and I want to protect my past (personal) 
work. If I choose to get effective backups at less cost, that's a 
personal "business" decision.

>> Given the cost of hard disks, it's cheaper in any sense to simply
>> rotate hard disks in and out using a hard disk dock and for that
>> matter making two copies at a time.  Further with USB 3.0 the copy
>> times are going to be relatively short.
>>
>> (The Drobo for all its glory is not esp. fast - even with FW-800.
>> Only a hair faster than the USB 2.0 docks/drives that I have for
>> direct copying.)
>
> If you bought a Drobo for speed, you bought the wrong solution. The

Nope.  I bought it as a local, short term backup.  But I've been lulled 
into false security because of its proprietary storage scheme that means 
w/o a compatible Drobo available the data on the disks is useless if the 
unit itself fails.

> majority of the Drobo's features are geared towards data safety - not
> speed. Older models such as yours have always been known to be rather
> slow compared to plain hard drives. Newer models that include SSD
> support are blazing fast though. Anyhow, I find my DroboS plenty fast
> enough for all of my needs, and relatively worry-free in comparison to
> plain hard drives.

It's not worry free for me for the several times cited single point of 
failure issue.  OTOH, using the disk docks is quick and will provide 
more than ample backup - that is also rotatable - something not 
practical with the Drobo.

>> There's really no "gain" in going with the Drobo or buying a new one and
>> retaining the single point of failure.  Buying 2 is out of the question.
>>    I have much better places for that cash.
>
> All well and good. You're choosing to sacrifice the primary benefits of
> the Drobo to save a buck. That doesn't magically make those benefits
> vanish into thin air though.

The primary benefits of the Drobo are not returning any value to me.  I 
don't need a hot swappable storage/backup utility.  It's overkill for my 
needs.

The benefits of using plain disks docks will cover the necessary backup 
need at far less cost.  That is much higher value as I have no realtime 
requirement to be at a "perfect" state.  The money saved can go to more 
useful things.

>>>> I'll sell the Drobo (with 1 and 2 TB drives) and keep the two 3 TB
>>>> drives for the new USB 3.0 docks.
>>>
>>> I'm sure whoever buys it will enjoy the data redundancy it offers.
>>
>> Until it fails.
>
> Your logic is confusing. If and when your Thermaltake fails, you'll need
> to buy another on of those as well. Same issue there. So you haven't
> improved that problem one bit - except for cost, which seems to be your
> primary motive. All you've done is saved yourself some money, and in the
> process, dropped all the benefits of the Drobo. That's cool, if that's
> what you want; but it doesn't mean the Thermaltake is equivalent or that
> the benefits of the Drobo are non-existent.

You're applying your logic to my situation - guess what?  Doesn't fit. I 
don't expect the disk docks to be Drobo like in behaviour at all. 
They're external storage.  Period.

Again: my primary issue with the Drobo is that it uses a proprietary 
file system.  If the electronics fail you have to have the unit repaired 
(mine is out of warranty) or find another compatible unit to recover the 
data.  And then you still have a dead Drobo to get repaired or replaced. 
  Or recycled.

OTOH, plain disks in plain docks can be recovered on any brand plain 
dock that is SATA-III compatible.  I can run over to a store a few km 
away and have that in my house within 30 minutes or order online and 
have it the next day.

But I won't need to do anything urgently because I've bought two 
external dock systems - and I'll keep the USB 2.0 dock too (resale value 
isn't even worth the time to sell it) as a further eqt. backup.

>> I've had zero replies on Craigslist (indeed I should go
>> refresh the advert.  It's probably expired).
>
> I bet you'd have much better luck on eBay. I got $425 for my Drobo 2nd
> gen on eBay back in 2010 which went towards a new DroboS. Great upgrade!
> : )

That's 4 years ago.  I notice there's a 5 bay on sale, w/o disks, for 
$390 here and it's not going anywhere.  The latest Drobo's are just too 
sexy I guess.

I don't want to deal with ebay - or rather S&H - big waste of time for 
me.  Let 'em come to the door.

-- 
   Privacy has become an essential personal chore that most
   people are not trained to perform.
                  - Jaron Lanier, Scientific American, 2013.11.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#56777

On 2014-02-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2014.02.19, 21:12 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2014-02-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>> On 2014.02.19, 18:09 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>> You could have done better purchasing two Drobos. So I guess it's really
>>>> about money for you.
>>>
>>> Indeed part of it.
>>
>> Seems like a major part of it.
>
> You seem intent on harping at the $ cost.

It's just obvious that's the major driver of your decision, which is
perfectly fine. Drobos are more expensive than plain drive enclosures
and docks. I'm certainly not debating that.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#56781

On 2014.02.20, 18:41 , Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2014-02-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2014.02.19, 21:12 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> On 2014-02-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>> On 2014.02.19, 18:09 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>>> You could have done better purchasing two Drobos. So I guess it's really
>>>>> about money for you.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed part of it.
>>>
>>> Seems like a major part of it.
>>
>> You seem intent on harping at the $ cost.
>
> It's just obvious that's the major driver of your decision, which is
> perfectly fine. Drobos are more expensive than plain drive enclosures
> and docks. I'm certainly not debating that.

The major driver is single point of failure - that leads to the rest.

New docks are up and running.  Testing them out for a few days before 
decomm of the Drobo - though I have removed 2 drives and it's sorting 
out the rest.  (I removed the 1 TB drive and the Drobo went to orange 
for a couple minutes then back to steady green. Removed the 2 TB drive 
and it's been chewing on that for a couple hours now (two 3 TB drives 
left) - should be ready tomorrow I guess..)

-- 
    ... it may be that "in the cloud" really isn't the best term
    for the services these companies offer.  What they really
    want is to have us "on the leash."
                   -David Pogue, Scientific American, 2014.02

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#56778

On 2014-02-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2014.02.19, 21:12 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>>
>> The majority of the Drobo's features are geared towards data safety -
>> not speed. Older models such as yours have always been known to be
>> rather slow compared to plain hard drives. Newer models that include
>> SSD support are blazing fast though. Anyhow, I find my DroboS plenty
>> fast enough for all of my needs, and relatively worry-free in
>> comparison to plain hard drives.
>
> It's not worry free for me for the several times cited single point of
> failure issue.  OTOH, using the disk docks is quick and will provide
> more than ample backup - that is also rotatable - something not
> practical with the Drobo.

Rotatable because you have another dock (or a dock that holds two
drives). You'd have the same functionality with two Drobos. 

What you won't have are all of the additional features of the Drobo (the
convenience factors, the ability to mix and match drives of different
sizes easily to create logical volumes larger than the drives
themselves, and so on).

And that's fine, of course.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#56783

On 2014.02.20, 18:45 , Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2014-02-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2014.02.19, 21:12 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>
>>> The majority of the Drobo's features are geared towards data safety -
>>> not speed. Older models such as yours have always been known to be
>>> rather slow compared to plain hard drives. Newer models that include
>>> SSD support are blazing fast though. Anyhow, I find my DroboS plenty
>>> fast enough for all of my needs, and relatively worry-free in
>>> comparison to plain hard drives.
>>
>> It's not worry free for me for the several times cited single point of
>> failure issue.  OTOH, using the disk docks is quick and will provide
>> more than ample backup - that is also rotatable - something not
>> practical with the Drobo.
>
> Rotatable because you have another dock (or a dock that holds two
> drives). You'd have the same functionality with two Drobos.

2 docks (4 HD's):    $138.00 (tax and shipping included).

Redundancy:   Yes.

Scheduled backups:   Yes (T-M and whichever of CCC or SD I choose - not
                           clear yet which is better for my plan).

Non-proprietary recovery if the docks break:   Yes.

> What you won't have are all of the additional features of the Drobo (the
> convenience factors, the ability to mix and match drives of different
> sizes easily to create logical volumes larger than the drives
> themselves, and so on).

I can still have any disk sizes I want.  Indeed, I'll have two 2 TB and 
two 3 TB drives in there to start with.  I don't have the need to span 
drives (referring to your other post).

>
> And that's fine, of course.

As I've pointed out I have no "real time" convenience needs.  Whether 
the redundancy is in the clever Drobo ability to immediately deal with a 
failed drive or in two drives, one that fails and one that doesn't - it 
makes no difference in the end - all of my data is secure.

-- 
   Privacy has become an essential personal chore that most
   people are not trained to perform.
                  - Jaron Lanier, Scientific American, 2013.11.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#56779

On 2014-02-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2014.02.19, 21:12 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2014-02-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>> There's really no "gain" in going with the Drobo or buying a new one
>>> and retaining the single point of failure.  Buying 2 is out of the
>>> question.  I have much better places for that cash.
>>
>> All well and good. You're choosing to sacrifice the primary benefits
>> of the Drobo to save a buck. That doesn't magically make those
>> benefits vanish into thin air though.
>
> The primary benefits of the Drobo are not returning any value to me.
> I don't need a hot swappable storage/backup utility.  It's overkill
> for my needs.

Cool. Apparently you don't need to build logical volumes from multiple
hard drives either. I use mine partially as storage for a home media
server; so I do need it. Consider yourself lucky. : )

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#56782

On 2014.02.20, 18:48 , Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2014-02-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2014.02.19, 21:12 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> On 2014-02-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> There's really no "gain" in going with the Drobo or buying a new one
>>>> and retaining the single point of failure.  Buying 2 is out of the
>>>> question.  I have much better places for that cash.
>>>
>>> All well and good. You're choosing to sacrifice the primary benefits
>>> of the Drobo to save a buck. That doesn't magically make those
>>> benefits vanish into thin air though.
>>
>> The primary benefits of the Drobo are not returning any value to me.
>> I don't need a hot swappable storage/backup utility.  It's overkill
>> for my needs.
>
> Cool. Apparently you don't need to build logical volumes from multiple
> hard drives either. I use mine partially as storage for a home media
> server; so I do need it. Consider yourself lucky. : )

With the Thermaltake's it's not a direct option.  With my old iOmega 
drive case I could span 2 drives and there are other systems as well - 
though you wouldn't approve of their more common RAID approach.

Should the need arise (not in sight) I'll get an appropriate RAID NAS. 
Might even be a Drobo.

My "home media" is now Apple TV as an HDMI converter with this iMac 
providing Netflix or stored Video.  Occasionally music.  Still renting 
Blu-Rays and buying the occasional disks too.

-- 
   Those who have reduced our privacy, whether they are state
   or commercial actors, prefer that we do not reduce theirs.
                  - Jaron Lanier, Scientific American, 2013.11.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#56789

In message <bmniijFki77U3@mid.individual.net> 
  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2014-02-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2014.02.19, 21:12 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> On 2014-02-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> There's really no "gain" in going with the Drobo or buying a new one
>>>> and retaining the single point of failure.  Buying 2 is out of the
>>>> question.  I have much better places for that cash.
>>>
>>> All well and good. You're choosing to sacrifice the primary benefits
>>> of the Drobo to save a buck. That doesn't magically make those
>>> benefits vanish into thin air though.
>>
>> The primary benefits of the Drobo are not returning any value to me.
>> I don't need a hot swappable storage/backup utility.  It's overkill
>> for my needs.

> Cool. Apparently you don't need to build logical volumes from multiple
> hard drives either. I use mine partially as storage for a home media
> server; so I do need it. Consider yourself lucky. : )

And I shoudl have mentioned, having a single c. 16TB volume for movies
and TV and Music and photos is *very* convenient and has made my scripts
considerably simpler.

Well, in theory. Still have to fix rsync.

-- 
The only good thing ever to come out of religion was the music.

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#56780

On 2014-02-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2014.02.19, 21:12 , Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2014-02-20, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've had zero replies on Craigslist (indeed I should go refresh the
>>> advert.  It's probably expired).
>>
>> I bet you'd have much better luck on eBay. I got $425 for my Drobo
>> 2nd gen on eBay back in 2010 which went towards a new DroboS. Great
>> upgrade!  : )
>
> That's 4 years ago.  I notice there's a 5 bay on sale, w/o disks, for
> $390 here and it's not going anywhere.  The latest Drobo's are just
> too sexy I guess.

I wouldn't expect the resale value of any device like this to remain
static for four years. That said, it looks like you can reasonably
expect to get anywhere from $150 up to $300 for one right now, according
to recently completed listings:

<http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=drobo+2nd+generation&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&LH_Complete=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=200&_fpos=&_fsct=&LH_SALE_CURRENCY=0&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50>

<http://preview.tinyurl.com/kbcfhq7>

> I don't want to deal with ebay - or rather S&H - big waste of time for
> me.  Let 'em come to the door.

That's cool. Good luck.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#56732

On 2014-02-20 01:03:16 +0000, Alan Browne said:

> (The Drobo for all its glory is not esp. fast - even with FW-800.  Only 
> a hair faster than the USB 2.0 docks/drives that I have for direct 
> copying.)

"not esp. fast" is an understatement.  I love my Drobo.  But it's 
downright slow.  Copies to/from a USB*2* connected drive are much 
faster than the Drobo at FW800.  The bottleneck is not the interface.

Similarly, I just saw a great deal on a USB3 128GB memory stick.  I 
have a USB2 one and it's a fraction of the speed of using USB2 with a 
hard drive, so, again, I wonder if they're working hard to speed up 
parts which really aren't the bottleneck at all.

> There's really no "gain" in going with the Drobo or buying a new one 
> and retaining the single point of failure.  Buying 2 is out of the 
> question.   I have much better places for that cash.

Drobos don't mean you don't need to back things up.  Or, in my case, 
the Drobo *is* the respository for backups and much faster (singular) 
drives are the primary working drives.

> Until it fails.  I've had zero replies on Craigslist (indeed I should 
> go refresh the advert.  It's probably expired).  But the local computer 
> repair shop will happily put it up for sale.  I sold my other iMac 
> there.

Hrm.  What's a used Drobo go for these days?  (not really asking - I'll 
take a look on eBay to satisfy my own curiosity).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#56758

On 2014-02-20, Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> wrote:
>
> Hrm.  What's a used Drobo go for these days?  (not really asking - I'll 
> take a look on eBay to satisfy my own curiosity).

You'll find they have a pretty good resale value.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#56773

On 2014.02.19, 23:53 , Bread wrote:
> On 2014-02-20 01:03:16 +0000, Alan Browne said:
>
>> (The Drobo for all its glory is not esp. fast - even with FW-800.
>> Only a hair faster than the USB 2.0 docks/drives that I have for
>> direct copying.)
>
> "not esp. fast" is an understatement.  I love my Drobo.  But it's
> downright slow.  Copies to/from a USB*2* connected drive are much faster
> than the Drobo at FW800.  The bottleneck is not the interface.

When copying from the Drobo to a Ram Disk, the Drobo is about 30% faster 
than the USB 2.0 dock/drives I have;

But copying from the Ram Disk to the Drobo is about 3X slower than the 
USB 2.0 docks I have.  (Timed on an 800 MB video file).

> Similarly, I just saw a great deal on a USB3 128GB memory stick.  I have
> a USB2 one and it's a fraction of the speed of using USB2 with a hard
> drive, so, again, I wonder if they're working hard to speed up parts
> which really aren't the bottleneck at all.

USB Flash drives come in a range of speeds with the very simple 
equation:  faster = more expensive.

SATA III HD's are very fast.  My iMac HD is writing north of 200 MB/s 
and reading much faster than that.  (And more so when 'Fusion' kicks in).

So I look forward to the USB 3.0 docks where I hope the write speeds to 
be in that vicinity.  The HD's won't write as fast as USB 3.0 will 
deliver.  On read, the HD's will probably be faster than the USB 3.0 can 
move the data.  I'll measurebate when able.

>> There's really no "gain" in going with the Drobo or buying a new one
>> and retaining the single point of failure.  Buying 2 is out of the
>> question.   I have much better places for that cash.
>
> Drobos don't mean you don't need to back things up.  Or, in my case, the
> Drobo *is* the respository for backups and much faster (singular) drives
> are the primary working drives.

Sure.  I'm just taking the Drobo out and putting HD's out there and in 
rotation to return to an offsite backup scheme.  I'll retain TM as short 
term recovery as well - but on another external drive.

>> Until it fails.  I've had zero replies on Craigslist (indeed I should
>> go refresh the advert.  It's probably expired).  But the local
>> computer repair shop will happily put it up for sale.  I sold my other
>> iMac there.
>
> Hrm.  What's a used Drobo go for these days?  (not really asking - I'll
> take a look on eBay to satisfy my own curiosity).

I see one in Montreal (5 bay, no addition disks) for $390 (Craigslist).

I'm selling mine (4 bay, with two disks (1 + 2 TB) for $390 (Craigslist 
and local computer store).

I see lower priced ones (4 bay, no HD's) on ebay as well.

These are CAD $, which at present go for ~91 cents/US $.

-- 
   Privacy has become an essential personal chore that most
   people are not trained to perform.
                  - Jaron Lanier, Scientific American, 2013.11.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57297

On 2014-02-20 22:24:32 +0000, Alan Browne said:

> On 2014.02.19, 23:53 , Bread wrote:
>> On 2014-02-20 01:03:16 +0000, Alan Browne said:
>> 
>>> (The Drobo for all its glory is not esp. fast - even with FW-800.
>>> Only a hair faster than the USB 2.0 docks/drives that I have for
>>> direct copying.)
>> 
>> "not esp. fast" is an understatement.  I love my Drobo.  But it's
>> downright slow.  Copies to/from a USB*2* connected drive are much faster
>> than the Drobo at FW800.  The bottleneck is not the interface.
> 
> When copying from the Drobo to a Ram Disk, the Drobo is about 30% 
> faster than the USB 2.0 dock/drives I have;
> 
> But copying from the Ram Disk to the Drobo is about 3X slower than the 
> USB 2.0 docks I have.  (Timed on an 800 MB video file).

Now that I think about it, that sounds about right - *read* from the 
Drobo is reasonably quick.  Writing to it is what's painfully slow.  
Pulling up a big directory listing on it seems slow, too.

Nevertheless, my iPhoto repository, for example, since it no longer 
fits on my internal drive, lives on a FW800 single drive and gets 
backed up to the Drobo (via TM and crashplan).

> 
>> Similarly, I just saw a great deal on a USB3 128GB memory stick.  I have
>> a USB2 one and it's a fraction of the speed of using USB2 with a hard
>> drive, so, again, I wonder if they're working hard to speed up parts
>> which really aren't the bottleneck at all.
> 
> USB Flash drives come in a range of speeds with the very simple 
> equation:  faster = more expensive.

Still, it's just not obvious, at least to me, whether one will be 
faster than another and it's certainly not as simple as USB2 vs USB3.

I may buy that USB3 one just to compare.  Can't seem to have too many 
of these handy devices anyway.
> 
> I see one in Montreal (5 bay, no addition disks) for $390 (Craigslist).
> 
> I'm selling mine (4 bay, with two disks (1 + 2 TB) for $390 (Craigslist 
> and local computer store).
> 
> I see lower priced ones (4 bay, no HD's) on ebay as well.
> 
> These are CAD $, which at present go for ~91 cents/US $.

I've got my one Drobo and really haven't worried about a replacement.  
I just checked Craigslist and there are three within an hour drive of 
me, 2nd gen with FW800, all at around $150/ea. with no drives.

That's actually kind of tempting, just to have a backup for my main 
drobo, though, as I said, even if mine died, its main purpose is as a 
backup drive in the first place.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#57179

I retired my 2nd Gen Drobo a few months ago for a Synology NAS DS1512+. 
The drobo 2nd Gen has always been slow, about 12 MB/s under USB and 
maybe a squeek over 20 MB/s on FW800. I know another guy who has a 2nd 
Gen Drobo his tests out almost identical, I don't think I had a lemon, 
I think were just that slow.

I typically was having CCC make nightly backups of all my drives to the 
Drobo. One clocks in at 1.2 TB, One clocks in at 1.4 TB, and one clocks 
in at 700GB.

I also use crashplan to sync certain directories to a freinds NAS but I 
like the whole disk images, easy to get back up and running.

Given how slow the drobo is I thought I would do a test restore to 
another machine, I'd be waiting days to get back up and running should 
I have a drive failure. Some good that would be. Piddled around a bit 
and settled on a Synology, they are well supported and have some great 
features for building out additional storage. I wouldn't say they for 
everybody, I'd probably suggest a QNAP device over a synology for most 
folks.

I have used some of the newer drobos at work and they are faster, 
especially with an MSATA ssd but for what I spent on that 2nd gen and 
how awesome they touted the damn thing (edit live video and photos 
right off this device!) Drobo as a company has kind of left a sour 
taste in my moutn.

They are dead simple for the layman but for anyone with a modicum of 
computer skill I'd go with a different storage solution like a QNAP.

-alex-

On 2014-02-20 04:53:39 +0000, Bread said:

> On 2014-02-20 01:03:16 +0000, Alan Browne said:
> 
>> (The Drobo for all its glory is not esp. fast - even with FW-800.  Only 
>> a hair faster than the USB 2.0 docks/drives that I have for direct 
>> copying.)
> 
> "not esp. fast" is an understatement.  I love my Drobo.  But it's 
> downright slow.  Copies to/from a USB*2* connected drive are much 
> faster than the Drobo at FW800.  The bottleneck is not the interface.
> 
> Similarly, I just saw a great deal on a USB3 128GB memory stick.  I 
> have a USB2 one and it's a fraction of the speed of using USB2 with a 
> hard drive, so, again, I wonder if they're working hard to speed up 
> parts which really aren't the bottleneck at all.
> 
>> There's really no "gain" in going with the Drobo or buying a new one 
>> and retaining the single point of failure.  Buying 2 is out of the 
>> question.   I have much better places for that cash.
> 
> Drobos don't mean you don't need to back things up.  Or, in my case, 
> the Drobo *is* the respository for backups and much faster (singular) 
> drives are the primary working drives.
> 
>> Until it fails.  I've had zero replies on Craigslist (indeed I should 
>> go refresh the advert.  It's probably expired).  But the local computer 
>> repair shop will happily put it up for sale.  I sold my other iMac 
>> there.
> 
> Hrm.  What's a used Drobo go for these days?  (not really asking - I'll 
> take a look on eBay to satisfy my own curiosity).

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