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Why not NiMH?

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  Why not NiMH? J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-04 16:24 -0500
    Re: Why not NiMH? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-04 16:38 -0500
      Re: Why not NiMH? dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2013-12-05 11:01 +1100
        Re: Why not NiMH? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-04 23:38 -0500
          Re: Why not NiMH? Mike Lane <mike.lane.usenet@ntlworld.co.uk> - 2013-12-05 13:21 +0000
            Re: Why not NiMH? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-05 11:29 -0500
            Re: Why not NiMH? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-06 09:01 +1300
        Re: Why not NiMH? Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-05 05:21 -0500
          Re: Why not NiMH? dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2013-12-06 09:07 +1100
            Re: Why not NiMH? Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-05 18:42 -0500
              Re: Why not NiMH? dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2013-12-06 11:57 +1100
                Re: Why not NiMH? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-06 18:34 +1300
                  Re: Why not NiMH? dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2013-12-06 17:08 +1100
                    Re: Why not NiMH? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-06 19:19 +1300
                      Re: Why not NiMH? dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2013-12-06 20:14 +1100
            Re: Why not NiMH? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-06 13:30 +1300
              Re: Why not NiMH? dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2013-12-06 12:00 +1100
                Re: Why not NiMH? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-06 18:24 +1300
              Re: Why not NiMH? George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2013-12-05 19:50 -0600
        Re: Why not NiMH? J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-05 15:11 -0500
          Re: Why not NiMH? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-05 16:15 -0500
      Re: Why not NiMH? J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-04 19:59 -0500
        Re: Why not NiMH? Ted Lee <tmplee@mr.net> - 2013-12-04 22:09 -0600
          Re: Why not NiMH? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-04 23:38 -0500
          Re: Why not NiMH? J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-05 00:54 -0500
            Re: Why not NiMH? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-05 00:59 -0500
              Re: Why not NiMH? J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-05 02:22 -0500
                Re: Why not NiMH? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-05 02:44 -0500
                  Re: Why not NiMH? J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-05 03:36 -0500
                    Re: Why not NiMH? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-12-05 04:21 -0500
                    Re: Why not NiMH? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-05 11:29 -0500
                    Re: Why not NiMH? J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-05 16:24 -0500
                Re: Why not NiMH? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-12-05 18:37 +0000
                  Re: Why not NiMH? J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-05 14:19 -0500
                    Re: Why not NiMH? George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2013-12-05 13:31 -0600
                      Re: Why not NiMH? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-06 09:07 +1300
                    Re: Why not NiMH? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-05 14:36 -0500
                    Re: Why not NiMH? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-12-05 22:02 +0000
                      Re: Why not NiMH? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-06 13:26 +1300
                        Re: Why not NiMH? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-12-06 00:33 +0000
                          Re: Why not NiMH? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-06 18:36 +1300
                            Re: Why not NiMH? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-12-06 21:22 +0000
                              Re: Why not NiMH? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-07 11:49 +1300
                                Re: Why not NiMH? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-12-07 00:11 +0000
                                  Re: Why not NiMH? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-07 18:07 +1300
                                Re: Why not NiMH? George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2013-12-07 08:37 -0600
                                  Re: Why not NiMH? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-08 09:52 +1300
                        Re: Why not NiMH? George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2013-12-05 19:49 -0600
                          Re: Why not NiMH? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-12-05 21:55 -0500
                          Re: Why not NiMH? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-06 18:40 +1300
                            Re: Why not NiMH? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-12-06 21:24 +0000
                              Re: Why not NiMH? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-07 11:49 +1300
                                Re: Why not NiMH? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-06 18:43 -0500
                              Re: Why not NiMH? George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2013-12-07 08:32 -0600
                                Re: Why not NiMH? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-08 09:50 +1300
                                  Re: Why not NiMH? George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2013-12-07 15:50 -0600
                                    Re: Why not NiMH? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-08 14:04 +1300
                                      Re: Why not NiMH? George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2013-12-07 21:02 -0600
                                        Re: Why not NiMH? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-08 17:45 +1300
                  Re: Why not NiMH? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-12-06 17:48 +0000
                    Re: Why not NiMH? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-12-06 21:25 +0000
          Re: Why not NiMH? Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-12-05 05:33 -0500
          Re: Why not NiMH? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-12-05 18:35 +0000
        Re: Why not NiMH? Zar Zifodow <zarzifodow@mailinator.com> - 2013-12-04 20:14 -0800
        Re: Why not NiMH? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-04 23:38 -0500
          Re: Why not NiMH? Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2013-12-04 20:46 -0800
          Re: Why not NiMH? J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-05 02:22 -0500
            Re: Why not NiMH? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-05 02:44 -0500
    Re: Why not NiMH? Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2013-12-04 23:08 -0800
      Re: Why not NiMH? J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-05 03:08 -0500
        Re: Why not NiMH? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-05 11:29 -0500
    Re: Why not NiMH? me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2013-12-05 14:15 +0000
      Re: Why not NiMH? J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-05 12:43 -0500
        Re: Why not NiMH? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-05 12:54 -0500
        Re: Why not NiMH? Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2013-12-05 22:44 -0800
          Re: Why not NiMH? J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-06 13:19 -0500
        Re: Why not NiMH? me@home.spamsucks.ca (Kiraly) - 2013-12-06 22:35 +0000
          Re: Why not NiMH? J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-07 02:27 -0500
          Re: Why not NiMH? J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2013-12-08 00:10 -0500
    Re: Why not NiMH? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-14 18:57 +1300
      Re: Why not NiMH? Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> - 2013-12-17 12:04 -0500
        Re: Why not NiMH? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-18 09:27 +1300
    Re: Why not NiMH? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-12-19 18:59 +1300

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#52992

In article <l7qmld$f0n$1@dont-email.me>, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com>
wrote:

> > How about this: make so it can be removed easily and a spare one
> > carried. Like with some cameras.
> >
> My first camera used 4 AAs.  I got NiMH because they were recommended. 
> That's when I found out the NiMH of that time were quirky; I never knew 
> how long a set of batteries would supply the surge the camera needed. 
> It didn't matter because I had 4 spares in my pocket.
> 
> My next one used lithium.  It may be 10 years old, but the original 
> battery still works.  There has never been much warning that I needed a 
> recharge, and it takes five hours or so.

so lithium batteries aren't as crappy as you claim. what a surprise
that is.

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#52950

On 12/4/13 4:38 PM, nospam wrote:

>
> you aren't actually suggesting making a laptop to run on a bunch of aa
> eneloops, are you?

You caught me.  I'll admit it.  That's what I was suggesting.

>
> right now, a macbook air can get as much as 15 hours of run time on one
> charge, all in a 2 pound laptop. there's no need to worry about running
> low.
>
> using aa batteries would be more than twice the bulk, ridiculously
> inconvenient and probably not that much cheaper, if it is at all.
>
Apple says ideally you might get 5 years or 1,000 cycles from a lithium 
battery.  Then you have the problem of getting it to an Apple center, 
where they will charge $130 - $200.

You'd need 6 Eneloops and 6 more to swap, for about $36.  They'd have 
about 2,000mah, compared to 5400 for a lithium battery.  If you had 
battery trouble, you could buy new ones without travel, downtime, or 
much expense.

Apple says a battery will last the most years if you discharge it about 
50% each day and recharge.  What a hassle!  If you leave it plugged in, 
or unplug it and leave it charged, capacity will decline.  If you leave 
it discharged, you may be unable to recharge it.

A desktop would almost always suit my needs.  With a detachable battery 
pack, a laptop could be used as a desktop without impairing battery 
performance.

A laptop might be nice in a power failure or for occasional portability. 
  If I ran a lithium battery down in a power failure, I'd be out of 
luck.  My NiMH charger uses a 12V wall wart, which means I could hook it 
to a car battery to provide charged cells to run a laptop indefinitely.

And NiMH cells don't seem to catch fire or bulge.

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#52953

On 12/4/13, 6:59 PM, J Burns wrote:
>
> A laptop might be nice in a power failure or for occasional portability.
>   If I ran a lithium battery down in a power failure, I'd be out of
> luck.  My NiMH charger uses a 12V wall wart, which means I could hook it
> to a car battery to provide charged cells to run a laptop indefinitely.
>

My laptop works just great in a power failure.
Problem is, my wifi and DSL don't!

Ted

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#52956

In article <l7ou9o$4oa$1@dont-email.me>, Ted Lee <tmplee@mr.net> wrote:

> My laptop works just great in a power failure.
> Problem is, my wifi and DSL don't!

they will if you put them on a backup ups and the power outage didn't
affect the phone company.

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#52959

On 12/4/13 11:09 PM, Ted Lee wrote:
> On 12/4/13, 6:59 PM, J Burns wrote:
>>
>> A laptop might be nice in a power failure or for occasional portability.
>>   If I ran a lithium battery down in a power failure, I'd be out of
>> luck.  My NiMH charger uses a 12V wall wart, which means I could hook it
>> to a car battery to provide charged cells to run a laptop indefinitely.
>>
>
> My laptop works just great in a power failure.
> Problem is, my wifi and DSL don't!
>
> Ted

My modem and ATA have wall warts for 12VDC.  When I went to VOIP, I 
bought 50 feet of zip cord, red on one side to identify positive.  I put 
connectors for my modem and ATA on one end and alligator clips on the 
other for my car battery.  Now I have phone service when the power is 
out.  If I had a laptop, I could check the power company's site and of 
course comp.sys.mac.system.

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#52960

In article <l7p4em$siq$1@dont-email.me>, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com>
wrote:

> My modem and ATA have wall warts for 12VDC.  When I went to VOIP, I 
> bought 50 feet of zip cord, red on one side to identify positive.  I put 
> connectors for my modem and ATA on one end and alligator clips on the 
> other for my car battery.  Now I have phone service when the power is 
> out.  If I had a laptop, I could check the power company's site and of 
> course comp.sys.mac.system.

or you could buy a ups and run more than only 12v devices.

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#52962

On 12/5/13 12:59 AM, nospam wrote:
> In article <l7p4em$siq$1@dont-email.me>, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>> My modem and ATA have wall warts for 12VDC.  When I went to VOIP, I
>> bought 50 feet of zip cord, red on one side to identify positive.  I put
>> connectors for my modem and ATA on one end and alligator clips on the
>> other for my car battery.  Now I have phone service when the power is
>> out.  If I had a laptop, I could check the power company's site and of
>> course comp.sys.mac.system.
>
> or you could buy a ups and run more than only 12v devices.
>
Some people get only 2 years from UPS batteries.  The run time is 
usually minutes.  My last car battery lasted 13 years and gave me all 
the phone time I wanted in power failures.

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#52964

In article <l7p9ja$gb7$1@dont-email.me>, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com>
wrote:

> >> My modem and ATA have wall warts for 12VDC.  When I went to VOIP, I
> >> bought 50 feet of zip cord, red on one side to identify positive.  I put
> >> connectors for my modem and ATA on one end and alligator clips on the
> >> other for my car battery.  Now I have phone service when the power is
> >> out.  If I had a laptop, I could check the power company's site and of
> >> course comp.sys.mac.system.
> >
> > or you could buy a ups and run more than only 12v devices.
> 
> Some people get only 2 years from UPS batteries. 

usually it's much more. 

mine have lasted about 4-5 years before they had degraded to not being
all that useful.

> The run time is 
> usually minutes. 

only if you bought an underpowered ups.

you do realize they have various models with various capacities, right?

> My last car battery lasted 13 years and gave me all 
> the phone time I wanted in power failures.

that's unusually long for a car battery. most people get around half
that.

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#52967

On 12/5/13 2:44 AM, nospam wrote:
> In article <l7p9ja$gb7$1@dont-email.me>, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>>>> My modem and ATA have wall warts for 12VDC.  When I went to VOIP, I
>>>> bought 50 feet of zip cord, red on one side to identify positive.  I put
>>>> connectors for my modem and ATA on one end and alligator clips on the
>>>> other for my car battery.  Now I have phone service when the power is
>>>> out.  If I had a laptop, I could check the power company's site and of
>>>> course comp.sys.mac.system.
>>>
>>> or you could buy a ups and run more than only 12v devices.
>>
>> Some people get only 2 years from UPS batteries.
>
> usually it's much more.
>
> mine have lasted about 4-5 years before they had degraded to not being
> all that useful.
>
>> The run time is
>> usually minutes.
>
> only if you bought an underpowered ups.
>
> you do realize they have various models with various capacities, right?

If I spent $170, I could get 300 watts for 14 minutes.  Is that 
underpowered?
>
>> My last car battery lasted 13 years and gave me all
>> the phone time I wanted in power failures.
>
> that's unusually long for a car battery. most people get around half
> that.
>
Oh, I didn't get 13 years.  I got only 11.  A neighbor threw it away 
after two years because it was a 2-year battery and it quit working.  I 
cleaned up the PbSO4 and kept it cleaned up, and it kept starting my car.

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#52968

In a race for thinner and lighter laptops, where every mm of thickness
counts and every gramm of weight counts, Li-Ion batteries win over NiMh
in terms of power density and weight.

Li-Ion also wins in delivering large amount of power where NiMh are not
as good. This is one reason that when a 787 lands, the electric brakes
run off Li-Ion batteries and not older NiMh. (Those batteries are really
mission critical which is why the 787 was grounded when faults were
found with those batteries).

NiMh are safer and require less circuitry. Li-Ion are dangerous and
require protection circuit in the battery, and proper logic for charging
separate from battery.

NiMh do not catch on fire or explode, but can cause fires if there is a
short circuit.  Li-Ion can catch fire and explode with hot flammable
liquid being splashing everywhere as the container fails and the high
pressure inside (due to heat). lets go.

However, experience with various formulations of Li-Ion has improved
over the years and protection circuitry now enough to almost eliminate
the problems. (the 787 designs were quite a few years old and predated
the consumer battery problems which saw changes to improve safety).

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#52978

In article <l7pduv$3h3$1@dont-email.me>, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com>
wrote:

> >> The run time is
> >> usually minutes.
> >
> > only if you bought an underpowered ups.
> >
> > you do realize they have various models with various capacities, right?
> 
> If I spent $170, I could get 300 watts for 14 minutes.  Is that 
> underpowered?

it is if you want more than 14 minutes run time and i think you are
overpaying.

they do make higher capacity backup systems, including ones that can
power an entire house or building. 

> >> My last car battery lasted 13 years and gave me all
> >> the phone time I wanted in power failures.
> >
> > that's unusually long for a car battery. most people get around half
> > that.
> >
> Oh, I didn't get 13 years.  I got only 11.  A neighbor threw it away 
> after two years because it was a 2-year battery and it quit working.  I 
> cleaned up the PbSO4 and kept it cleaned up, and it kept starting my car.

assuming it's even true, it's unusually long.

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#52993

On 12/5/13 3:36 AM, J Burns wrote:
> On 12/5/13 2:44 AM, nospam wrote:

>>
>>> My last car battery lasted 13 years and gave me all
>>> the phone time I wanted in power failures.
>>
>> that's unusually long for a car battery. most people get around half
>> that.
>>
> Oh, I didn't get 13 years.  I got only 11.  A neighbor threw it away
> after two years because it was a 2-year battery and it quit working.  I
> cleaned up the PbSO4 and kept it cleaned up, and it kept starting my car.

It was from a neighbor's second car, an old economy car he used for 
errands.  I figured if it went bad in two years of short trips, it was 
probably an accumulation of PbSO4 from undercharging.  Short trips may 
not keep a battery charged, especially if there's resistance at a 
connection, especially in winter.

I figured the process of PbSO4 hardening and flaking might not have 
progressed very far. My charger was unregulated, but a neighbor was 
throwing out a regulated charger that had bad cables and clamps.

I didn't know it, but that charger uses pulses.  A DC trickle charge 
will remove a lot of PBSO4, but it can damage a battery by depositing 
something on the plates.... I don't remember what.  Pulsing avoids that.

I used the car for short trips, which meant the battery wasn't subjected 
to much heat, vibration, or extended DC charging.  Periodically, I'd put 
it on the pulse charger overnight.  I was amazed that it cranked my 
engine so many years.

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#52983

On 2013-12-05, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On 12/5/13 12:59 AM, nospam wrote:
>> In article <l7p4em$siq$1@dont-email.me>, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My modem and ATA have wall warts for 12VDC.  When I went to VOIP, I
>>> bought 50 feet of zip cord, red on one side to identify positive.  I put
>>> connectors for my modem and ATA on one end and alligator clips on the
>>> other for my car battery.  Now I have phone service when the power is
>>> out.  If I had a laptop, I could check the power company's site and of
>>> course comp.sys.mac.system.
>>
>> or you could buy a ups and run more than only 12v devices.
>>
> Some people get only 2 years from UPS batteries.  The run time is 
> usually minutes.  My last car battery lasted 13 years and gave me all 
> the phone time I wanted in power failures.

Uh huh...

The rest of us get 5-8 years from our UPS batteries, and size the UPS
units to give us longer run times. It's always best to use your brain
when making purchasing decisions, eh?

BTW, I can run my Mac Pro for a full 30 minutes during power outages before
running out of juice, and my internet connectivity is unafected by
outages, all thanks to a UPS.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#52984

On 12/5/13 1:37 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2013-12-05, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On 12/5/13 12:59 AM, nospam wrote:
>>> In article <l7p4em$siq$1@dont-email.me>, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My modem and ATA have wall warts for 12VDC.  When I went to VOIP, I
>>>> bought 50 feet of zip cord, red on one side to identify positive.  I put
>>>> connectors for my modem and ATA on one end and alligator clips on the
>>>> other for my car battery.  Now I have phone service when the power is
>>>> out.  If I had a laptop, I could check the power company's site and of
>>>> course comp.sys.mac.system.
>>>
>>> or you could buy a ups and run more than only 12v devices.
>>>
>> Some people get only 2 years from UPS batteries.  The run time is
>> usually minutes.  My last car battery lasted 13 years and gave me all
>> the phone time I wanted in power failures.
>
> Uh huh...
>
> The rest of us get 5-8 years from our UPS batteries, and size the UPS
> units to give us longer run times. It's always best to use your brain
> when making purchasing decisions, eh?

Robert Sember, in charge of Electrical Construction and Maintenance at 
Eaton Corp., says the standard expectancy is 3-5 years.  When capacity 
drops to 80%, deterioration accelerates.

I'm with you on this one.  It wouldn't make sense to buy a UPS just to 
get online a few minutes in an occasional power failure.
>
> BTW, I can run my Mac Pro for a full 30 minutes during power outages before
> running out of juice, and my internet connectivity is unafected by
> outages, all thanks to a UPS.
>
Around here, outages are likely to last from 4 hours to 4 days.  It 
looks like my best choice would be to get one of those laptops everyone 
keeps throwing away.  I could mess around with the built-in LiPo, but it 
might be in poor shape by the time I needed it.

Wikipedia says the best NiMH batteries these days have the same energy 
density as LiPo (energy per volume).  (In terms of weight, the best NiMH 
have energy similar to the worst LiPo.)  Sanyo says they'll have 70% of 
their charge after 5 years on the shelf, and apparently they'll still be 
in good condition for recharge.

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#52985

On 12/5/13 1:19 PM, in article l7qjks$rd2$1@dont-email.me, "J Burns"
<burns4@nowhere.com> wrote:

> On 12/5/13 1:37 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2013-12-05, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> On 12/5/13 12:59 AM, nospam wrote:
>>>> In article <l7p4em$siq$1@dont-email.me>, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> My modem and ATA have wall warts for 12VDC.  When I went to VOIP, I
>>>>> bought 50 feet of zip cord, red on one side to identify positive.  I put
>>>>> connectors for my modem and ATA on one end and alligator clips on the
>>>>> other for my car battery.  Now I have phone service when the power is
>>>>> out.  If I had a laptop, I could check the power company's site and of
>>>>> course comp.sys.mac.system.
>>>> 
>>>> or you could buy a ups and run more than only 12v devices.
>>>> 
>>> Some people get only 2 years from UPS batteries.  The run time is
>>> usually minutes.  My last car battery lasted 13 years and gave me all
>>> the phone time I wanted in power failures.
>> 
>> Uh huh...
>> 
>> The rest of us get 5-8 years from our UPS batteries, and size the UPS
>> units to give us longer run times. It's always best to use your brain
>> when making purchasing decisions, eh?
> 
> Robert Sember, in charge of Electrical Construction and Maintenance at
> Eaton Corp., says the standard expectancy is 3-5 years.  When capacity
> drops to 80%, deterioration accelerates.
> 
> I'm with you on this one.  It wouldn't make sense to buy a UPS just to
> get online a few minutes in an occasional power failure.
>> 
>> BTW, I can run my Mac Pro for a full 30 minutes during power outages before
>> running out of juice, and my internet connectivity is unafected by
>> outages, all thanks to a UPS.
>> 
> Around here, outages are likely to last from 4 hours to 4 days.
> 

Sounds like you need a backup generator in that case. Can't imagine being
without power for those lengths of time. Your freezer would spoil your food
and depending on your latitude, your HVAC system failure would make it quite
uncomfortable. They would run you ~ $4 to $5 K installed. IMHO, well worth
the price.

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#52988

In article <CEC630C2.A4E0B%ghost_topper@hotmail.com>, George Kerby
<ghost_topper@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On 12/5/13 1:19 PM, in article l7qjks$rd2$1@dont-email.me, "J Burns"
> <burns4@nowhere.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 12/5/13 1:37 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
> >> On 2013-12-05, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>> On 12/5/13 12:59 AM, nospam wrote:
> >>>> In article <l7p4em$siq$1@dont-email.me>, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>>> My modem and ATA have wall warts for 12VDC.  When I went to VOIP, I
> >>>>> bought 50 feet of zip cord, red on one side to identify positive.  I put
> >>>>> connectors for my modem and ATA on one end and alligator clips on the
> >>>>> other for my car battery.  Now I have phone service when the power is
> >>>>> out.  If I had a laptop, I could check the power company's site and of
> >>>>> course comp.sys.mac.system.
> >>>> 
> >>>> or you could buy a ups and run more than only 12v devices.
> >>>> 
> >>> Some people get only 2 years from UPS batteries.  The run time is
> >>> usually minutes.  My last car battery lasted 13 years and gave me all
> >>> the phone time I wanted in power failures.
> >> 
> >> Uh huh...
> >> 
> >> The rest of us get 5-8 years from our UPS batteries, and size the UPS
> >> units to give us longer run times. It's always best to use your brain
> >> when making purchasing decisions, eh?
> > 
> > Robert Sember, in charge of Electrical Construction and Maintenance at
> > Eaton Corp., says the standard expectancy is 3-5 years.  When capacity
> > drops to 80%, deterioration accelerates.
> > 
> > I'm with you on this one.  It wouldn't make sense to buy a UPS just to
> > get online a few minutes in an occasional power failure.
> >> 
> >> BTW, I can run my Mac Pro for a full 30 minutes during power outages before
> >> running out of juice, and my internet connectivity is unafected by
> >> outages, all thanks to a UPS.
> >> 
> > Around here, outages are likely to last from 4 hours to 4 days.
> 
> Sounds like you need a backup generator in that case. Can't imagine being
> without power for those lengths of time. Your freezer would spoil your food
> and depending on your latitude, your HVAC system failure would make it quite
> uncomfortable. They would run you ~ $4 to $5 K installed. IMHO, well worth
> the price.

Yep, a petrol / diesel generator, or a solar / wind / water power
system, or a power system that uses gases from your rubbish heap, or
any one of nuerous other home power systems ... or even just move to a
more sensible area with more reliable power.

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#52986

In article <l7qjks$rd2$1@dont-email.me>, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com>
wrote:

> Around here, outages are likely to last from 4 hours to 4 days.  It 
> looks like my best choice would be to get one of those laptops everyone 
> keeps throwing away.  I could mess around with the built-in LiPo, but it 
> might be in poor shape by the time I needed it.

if you have 4 day outages, then there are *far* more important things
to worry about than getting online with a laptop, such as food, heat,
medical devices for people who might need them, etc.

and nobody is throwing away laptops either. more bullshit.

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#52996

On 2013-12-05, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On 12/5/13 1:37 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2013-12-05, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> On 12/5/13 12:59 AM, nospam wrote:
>>>> In article <l7p4em$siq$1@dont-email.me>, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My modem and ATA have wall warts for 12VDC.  When I went to VOIP, I
>>>>> bought 50 feet of zip cord, red on one side to identify positive.  I put
>>>>> connectors for my modem and ATA on one end and alligator clips on the
>>>>> other for my car battery.  Now I have phone service when the power is
>>>>> out.  If I had a laptop, I could check the power company's site and of
>>>>> course comp.sys.mac.system.
>>>>
>>>> or you could buy a ups and run more than only 12v devices.
>>>>
>>> Some people get only 2 years from UPS batteries.  The run time is
>>> usually minutes.  My last car battery lasted 13 years and gave me all
>>> the phone time I wanted in power failures.
>>
>> Uh huh...
>>
>> The rest of us get 5-8 years from our UPS batteries, and size the UPS
>> units to give us longer run times. It's always best to use your brain
>> when making purchasing decisions, eh?
>
> Robert Sember, in charge of Electrical Construction and Maintenance at 
> Eaton Corp., says the standard expectancy is 3-5 years.  When capacity 
> drops to 80%, deterioration accelerates.
>
> I'm with you on this one.  It wouldn't make sense to buy a UPS just to 
> get online a few minutes in an occasional power failure.

That's not what I meant or said. For some of us, it is actually
important to be able to stay online and continue computing during
outages. If that's not a requirement for you, fine; but UPSs are indeed
a viable option for many of us.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#53005

In article <bgcbesFitphU3@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
<jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2013-12-05, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> wrote:
> > On 12/5/13 1:37 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
> >> On 2013-12-05, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>> On 12/5/13 12:59 AM, nospam wrote:
> >>>> In article <l7p4em$siq$1@dont-email.me>, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> My modem and ATA have wall warts for 12VDC.  When I went to VOIP, I
> >>>>> bought 50 feet of zip cord, red on one side to identify positive.  I put
> >>>>> connectors for my modem and ATA on one end and alligator clips on the
> >>>>> other for my car battery.  Now I have phone service when the power is
> >>>>> out.  If I had a laptop, I could check the power company's site and of
> >>>>> course comp.sys.mac.system.
> >>>>
> >>>> or you could buy a ups and run more than only 12v devices.
> >>>>
> >>> Some people get only 2 years from UPS batteries.  The run time is
> >>> usually minutes.  My last car battery lasted 13 years and gave me all
> >>> the phone time I wanted in power failures.
> >>
> >> Uh huh...
> >>
> >> The rest of us get 5-8 years from our UPS batteries, and size the UPS
> >> units to give us longer run times. It's always best to use your brain
> >> when making purchasing decisions, eh?
> >
> > Robert Sember, in charge of Electrical Construction and Maintenance at 
> > Eaton Corp., says the standard expectancy is 3-5 years.  When capacity 
> > drops to 80%, deterioration accelerates.
> >
> > I'm with you on this one.  It wouldn't make sense to buy a UPS just to 
> > get online a few minutes in an occasional power failure.
> 
> That's not what I meant or said. For some of us, it is actually
> important to be able to stay online and continue computing during
> outages. If that's not a requirement for you, fine; but UPSs are indeed
> a viable option for many of us.

Most outages are due to problems at the power relay station, which
likely means power probably isn't getting to the phone exchange either
and your Internet won't be working anyway.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53007

On 2013-12-06, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> In article <bgcbesFitphU3@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
><jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>> That's not what I meant or said. For some of us, it is actually
>> important to be able to stay online and continue computing during
>> outages. If that's not a requirement for you, fine; but UPSs are indeed
>> a viable option for many of us.
>
> Most outages are due to problems at the power relay station, which
> likely means power probably isn't getting to the phone exchange either
> and your Internet won't be working anyway.

Heh... Apparently you've never heard of cable internet providers. Nope,
through every single power outage I have had during the past two years
at this location, my internet connectivity was not interrupted, as long
as my modem, router, and switches remain powered, thanks to my UPS.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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