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Multiple Mavericks... a pity

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  Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Maurizio Loreti <mlo@foobar.it> - 2013-10-24 10:25 +0200
    Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-24 04:33 -0400
    Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity rcp27g@gmail.com - 2013-10-24 01:46 -0700
      Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Maurizio Loreti <mlo@foobar.it> - 2013-10-24 11:30 +0200
      Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2013-10-25 00:04 +1300
      Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity ANTant@zimage.com (Ant) - 2013-10-25 10:30 -0500
    Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> - 2013-10-24 13:30 -0400
      Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> - 2013-10-25 13:50 -0400
        Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-25 14:49 -0400
        Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> - 2013-10-25 15:35 -0400
        Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity bob <rcp27g@gmail.com> - 2013-10-25 21:49 +0200
        Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-25 16:56 -0400
    Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-24 17:04 -0400
      Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-24 18:26 -0400
        Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-10-24 22:25 -0400
          Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-24 23:09 -0400
            Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-10-25 16:15 +1300
              Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-25 16:38 -0400
            Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2013-10-25 18:20 -0700
              Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-25 21:37 -0400
          Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity rcp27g@gmail.com - 2013-10-25 03:02 -0700
            Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-25 16:40 -0400
              Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-25 20:16 -0400
                Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-25 20:55 -0400
                  Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-26 14:13 +1300
                    Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-25 21:37 -0400
                    Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-26 10:10 -0400
                  Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-10-25 21:31 -0400
                    Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-25 21:37 -0400
                    Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-26 15:11 +1300
                      Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity bob <rcp27g@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 12:16 +0200
                        Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-26 14:19 +0000
                        Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-26 10:20 -0400
                          Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity rcp27g@gmail.com - 2013-11-04 08:04 -0800
                      Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-26 10:18 -0400
                        Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-10-26 10:42 -0400
                          Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-26 11:05 -0400
                        Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-27 10:00 +1300
                          Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-26 20:09 -0400
                          Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-10-26 20:31 -0400
                            Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-27 14:05 +1300
                    Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-26 10:12 -0400
                  Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-25 21:37 -0400
                    Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-26 10:16 -0400
                      Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity bob <rcp27g@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 23:44 +0200
                        Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-26 20:19 -0400
                        Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-26 20:21 -0400
                          Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-26 20:37 -0400
              Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-10-26 02:36 -0400
                Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-26 10:19 -0400
              Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-26 14:17 +0000
                Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-10-26 10:29 -0400
    Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2013-11-01 16:14 +0100
      Re: Multiple Mavericks...  a pity Ned Mantei <ned.mantei@biol.ethz.ch> - 2013-11-01 19:22 +0100

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#50667

On Friday, 25 October 2013 04:25:06 UTC+2, Wes Groleau  wrote:
> On 10-24-2013, 18:26, nospam wrote:

> > no need to keep it.
> >
> > those who want to use it for other systems can make a copy before its
> > deleted. most people have no need to keep it around beyond the install.
> 
> 1. Interrupt the install, relocate the image.
> 
> 2. Do the install, manually delete if you want to.
> 
> (2) is easy for almost everyone.  (1) is a challenge for some people and 
> more work than (2) for anyone.
> 
> So seems to me that (2) is the better choice on the average.
> 
> Best of all:
> 
> 3. At the end of install, a pop-up
>     "Install successful.  Delete installer?"

Except that your assumption of how the installation process works is not complete.  If you just follow the steps you are prompted to follow, what happens is:

1) download the installer.  It auto-runs
2) The installer installs the new OS on your machine
3) The installer creates a recovery partition
4) the installer deletes itself.

I can only think of two purposes the installer could be put to after the installation is complete.  One is to run on a second/subsequent Mac to avoid multiple downloads, the second is to create a bootable installation device (eg USB drive).  The majority of people don't have multiple macs, and for those that do, the method that I used (and I expect most here did) of quitting the autorun and copying the installer is easy enough.

For the majority of people, if they need to re-install the OS for some reason, they can boot to the recovery partition and from there install the OS from their time-machine backup.  No need to use the installer here.  If they have something like an HD failure, the "Apple approved" method is to have the HD replaced by Apple or an approved service person, which will come either with a clean OS installed on it, or at least a recovery partition, from which they can install from their Time Machine backup.  Neither case requires either the installer or a fresh download of the data.

The *only* use for the installer once all of the Macs you own have been updates is to create a bootable install disk/USB stick, so that you can replace the HD yourself, and install the OS on a clean disk from there.  But if you are in a position to be seriously considering modifying your own hardware, then I really don't think you need Apple to hold your hand in the process of keeping the installer or getting hold of a new one.

Robin

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#50700

On 2013.10.25, 06:02 , rcp27g@gmail.com wrote:

> For the majority of people, if they need to re-install the OS for
> some reason, they can boot to the recovery partition and from there
> install the OS from their time-machine backup.

Horsefeathers.

It has nothing to do with "majorities" of people. It has to do with 
making life equally easy for all.

Look at the plight of the original poster in the thread.  Well 
intentioned to DL once and install several but he got screwed by the 
ambiguous Apple install.  A lot of people have multiple Macs (I have 3).

As Wes said, as a minimum, the installer should ask before deleting 
itself - or as Jamie said, go no further than the Trash.

Then the OP would not have to had to DL the rather large file again - 
which depending on ISP - can be an expensive proposition in terms of BW 
allocation.

Apple should not program the installer to self-delete.

-- 
"Quotation, n: The act of repeating erroneously the words of another."
                                                 -Ambrose Bierce

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#50723

In article <ic2dnUjIGo63SvfPnZ2dnUVZ_u8AAAAA@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> > For the majority of people, if they need to re-install the OS for
> > some reason, they can boot to the recovery partition and from there
> > install the OS from their time-machine backup.
> 
> Horsefeathers.
> 
> It has nothing to do with "majorities" of people. It has to do with 
> making life equally easy for all.

it has everything to do with the majority. you can't please everyone,
so you do what works for most people. trying to please everyone is
never going to work.

if you keep the installer around, some people will complain that it's
cluttering their hard drive, and in the case of ssd, space is at a
premium. if it's moved to the trash, some will complain about that too,
especially the ones who never empty their trash. 

so they chose what works for most users.

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#50728

On 2013.10.25, 20:16 , nospam wrote:
> In article <ic2dnUjIGo63SvfPnZ2dnUVZ_u8AAAAA@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>>> For the majority of people, if they need to re-install the OS for
>>> some reason, they can boot to the recovery partition and from there
>>> install the OS from their time-machine backup.
>>
>> Horsefeathers.
>>
>> It has nothing to do with "majorities" of people. It has to do with
>> making life equally easy for all.
>
> it has everything to do with the majority. you can't please everyone,
> so you do what works for most people. trying to please everyone is
> never going to work.
>
> if you keep the installer around, some people will complain that it's
> cluttering their hard drive, and in the case of ssd, space is at a
> premium. if it's moved to the trash, some will complain about that too,
> especially the ones who never empty their trash.


As usual you snipped out relevant parts of my post such as:

"As Wes said, as a minimum, the installer should ask before deleting 
itself - or as Jamie said, go no further than the Trash."

As to people who don't empty the trash, you trod all over them recently 
in this NG (and appropriately so).  Therefore that has no place at all 
in this and you should not have brought it up as an objection.

-- 
"Quotation, n: The act of repeating erroneously the words of another."
                                                 -Ambrose Bierce

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#50729

In article <3emdnbcaid-TjvbPnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> On 2013.10.25, 20:16 , nospam wrote:
> > In article <ic2dnUjIGo63SvfPnZ2dnUVZ_u8AAAAA@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> > <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> >
> >>> For the majority of people, if they need to re-install the OS for
> >>> some reason, they can boot to the recovery partition and from there
> >>> install the OS from their time-machine backup.
> >>
> >> Horsefeathers.
> >>
> >> It has nothing to do with "majorities" of people. It has to do with
> >> making life equally easy for all.
> >
> > it has everything to do with the majority. you can't please everyone,
> > so you do what works for most people. trying to please everyone is
> > never going to work.
> >
> > if you keep the installer around, some people will complain that it's
> > cluttering their hard drive, and in the case of ssd, space is at a
> > premium. if it's moved to the trash, some will complain about that too,
> > especially the ones who never empty their trash.
> 
> 
> As usual you snipped out relevant parts of my post such as:
> 
> "As Wes said, as a minimum, the installer should ask before deleting 
> itself - or as Jamie said, go no further than the Trash."
>  
> As to people who don't empty the trash, you trod all over them recently 
> in this NG (and appropriately so).  Therefore that has no place at all 
> in this and you should not have brought it up as an objection.

The auot-delete is possibly due to the use of "small" SSD and Apple not
wanting to clutter those up with large installer files. It is also
likely another carry-over from the "iOS-isation" of Mac OS.

Technically all installers should download to the Downloads folder (or
even better, ask the user where to save them), not to the Applications
folder, and they should be left there until the user deletes them.

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#50734

In article <261020131413075612%YourName@YourISP.com>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> Technically all installers should download to the Downloads folder (or
> even better, ask the user where to save them), not to the Applications
> folder, and they should be left there until the user deletes them.

apps download to the apps folder. that's how the app store works, and
what people expect to happen.

the os x installer is just an edge case, being an os upgrade packaged
into an app.

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#50753

On 2013.10.25, 21:13 , Your Name wrote:
> In article <3emdnbcaid-TjvbPnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2013.10.25, 20:16 , nospam wrote:
>>> In article <ic2dnUjIGo63SvfPnZ2dnUVZ_u8AAAAA@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
>>> <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> For the majority of people, if they need to re-install the OS for
>>>>> some reason, they can boot to the recovery partition and from there
>>>>> install the OS from their time-machine backup.
>>>>
>>>> Horsefeathers.
>>>>
>>>> It has nothing to do with "majorities" of people. It has to do with
>>>> making life equally easy for all.
>>>
>>> it has everything to do with the majority. you can't please everyone,
>>> so you do what works for most people. trying to please everyone is
>>> never going to work.
>>>
>>> if you keep the installer around, some people will complain that it's
>>> cluttering their hard drive, and in the case of ssd, space is at a
>>> premium. if it's moved to the trash, some will complain about that too,
>>> especially the ones who never empty their trash.
>>
>>
>> As usual you snipped out relevant parts of my post such as:
>>
>> "As Wes said, as a minimum, the installer should ask before deleting
>> itself - or as Jamie said, go no further than the Trash."
>>
>> As to people who don't empty the trash, you trod all over them recently
>> in this NG (and appropriately so).  Therefore that has no place at all
>> in this and you should not have brought it up as an objection.
>
> The auot-delete is possibly due to the use of "small" SSD and Apple not
> wanting to clutter those up with large installer files. It is also
> likely another carry-over from the "iOS-isation" of Mac OS.
>
> Technically all installers should download to the Downloads folder (or
> even better, ask the user where to save them), not to the Applications
> folder, and they should be left there until the user deletes them.

Technically, it doesn't matter where a file is in Unix to execute.

But of course I agree the computer owner should decide if a file should 
be deleted.


-- 
"Quotation, n: The act of repeating erroneously the words of another."
                                                 -Ambrose Bierce

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#50731

On 13-10-25 20:55, Alan Browne wrote:

> "As Wes said, as a minimum, the installer should ask before deleting 
> itself - or as Jamie said, go no further than the Trash."


Consider the scenario where this is a paid app with real money and no
rights to give it to friends. If the installer allows the .app to remain
on your drive, you then copy it and give it to your friends for free. By
hiding the .app from users, it reduces the odds of them finding it and
giving it to friends.

Perhaps, if the DRM were a bit stronger, they could allow the app to
remain because it would be tied to your apple ID and require Apple ID
password verification to activate. But this would prevent installs on
systems not connected to the internet (think about secure systems).

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#50736

In article <526b1b56$0$59730$c3e8da3$e074e489@news.astraweb.com>, JF
Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> Consider the scenario where this is a paid app with real money and no
> rights to give it to friends. If the installer allows the .app to remain
> on your drive, you then copy it and give it to your friends for free. By
> hiding the .app from users, it reduces the odds of them finding it and
> giving it to friends.

good point.

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#50737

In article <526b1b56$0$59730$c3e8da3$e074e489@news.astraweb.com>, JF
Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> On 13-10-25 20:55, Alan Browne wrote:
> 
> > "As Wes said, as a minimum, the installer should ask before deleting 
> > itself - or as Jamie said, go no further than the Trash."
> 
> 
> Consider the scenario where this is a paid app with real money and no
> rights to give it to friends. If the installer allows the .app to remain
> on your drive, you then copy it and give it to your friends for free. By
> hiding the .app from users, it reduces the odds of them finding it and
> giving it to friends.
> 
> Perhaps, if the DRM were a bit stronger, they could allow the app to
> remain because it would be tied to your apple ID and require Apple ID
> password verification to activate. But this would prevent installs on
> systems not connected to the internet (think about secure systems).

Here's a genius idea ... why not sell software on a hardware media in a
box in a shop, and then have the software insist that the original
hardware media is inserted / connected to the computer before the
software will run.  ;-)

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#50744

On 2013-10-26 02:11:24 +0000, Your Name said:

> In article <526b1b56$0$59730$c3e8da3$e074e489@news.astraweb.com>, JF
> Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> 
>> On 13-10-25 20:55, Alan Browne wrote:
>> 
>>> "As Wes said, as a minimum, the installer should ask before deleting
>>> itself - or as Jamie said, go no further than the Trash."
>> 
>> 
>> Consider the scenario where this is a paid app with real money and no
>> rights to give it to friends. If the installer allows the .app to remain
>> on your drive, you then copy it and give it to your friends for free. By
>> hiding the .app from users, it reduces the odds of them finding it and
>> giving it to friends.
>> 
>> Perhaps, if the DRM were a bit stronger, they could allow the app to
>> remain because it would be tied to your apple ID and require Apple ID
>> password verification to activate. But this would prevent installs on
>> systems not connected to the internet (think about secure systems).
> 
> Here's a genius idea ... why not sell software on a hardware media in a
> box in a shop, and then have the software insist that the original
> hardware media is inserted / connected to the computer before the
> software will run.  ;-)

Did anyone here actually buy the Lion-on-USB when that was sold in a 
box in a shop?

Robin

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#50760

In message <l4g4qn$gum$1@dont-email.me> 
  bob <rcp27g@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2013-10-26 02:11:24 +0000, Your Name said:

>> In article <526b1b56$0$59730$c3e8da3$e074e489@news.astraweb.com>, JF
>> Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 13-10-25 20:55, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> 
>>>> "As Wes said, as a minimum, the installer should ask before deleting
>>>> itself - or as Jamie said, go no further than the Trash."
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Consider the scenario where this is a paid app with real money and no
>>> rights to give it to friends. If the installer allows the .app to remain
>>> on your drive, you then copy it and give it to your friends for free. By
>>> hiding the .app from users, it reduces the odds of them finding it and
>>> giving it to friends.
>>> 
>>> Perhaps, if the DRM were a bit stronger, they could allow the app to
>>> remain because it would be tied to your apple ID and require Apple ID
>>> password verification to activate. But this would prevent installs on
>>> systems not connected to the internet (think about secure systems).
>> 
>> Here's a genius idea ... why not sell software on a hardware media in a
>> box in a shop, and then have the software insist that the original
>> hardware media is inserted / connected to the computer before the
>> software will run.  ;-)

> Did anyone here actually buy the Lion-on-USB when that was sold in a 
> box in a shop?

My friend who works at an Apple Store (Cherry Creek, a large busy one)
said they only sold 5 or 6 of those, total.

-- 
We will fight for Bovine Freedom and hold our large heads high We will
run free with the Buffalo or die

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#50762

On 2013.10.26, 06:16 , bob wrote:
> On 2013-10-26 02:11:24 +0000, Your Name said:
>
>> In article <526b1b56$0$59730$c3e8da3$e074e489@news.astraweb.com>, JF
>> Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On 13-10-25 20:55, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>
>>>> "As Wes said, as a minimum, the installer should ask before deleting
>>>> itself - or as Jamie said, go no further than the Trash."
>>>
>>>
>>> Consider the scenario where this is a paid app with real money and no
>>> rights to give it to friends. If the installer allows the .app to remain
>>> on your drive, you then copy it and give it to your friends for free. By
>>> hiding the .app from users, it reduces the odds of them finding it and
>>> giving it to friends.
>>>
>>> Perhaps, if the DRM were a bit stronger, they could allow the app to
>>> remain because it would be tied to your apple ID and require Apple ID
>>> password verification to activate. But this would prevent installs on
>>> systems not connected to the internet (think about secure systems).
>>
>> Here's a genius idea ... why not sell software on a hardware media in a
>> box in a shop, and then have the software insist that the original
>> hardware media is inserted / connected to the computer before the
>> software will run.  ;-)
>
> Did anyone here actually buy the Lion-on-USB when that was sold in a box
> in a shop?

The people who would need such probably aren't amongst the usenet crowd...


-- 
"Quotation, n: The act of repeating erroneously the words of another."
                                                 -Ambrose Bierce

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#51838

On Saturday, 26 October 2013 16:20:39 UTC+2, Alan Browne  wrote:
> On 2013.10.26, 06:16 , bob wrote:
> > On 2013-10-26 02:11:24 +0000, Your Name said:
> >> In article <526b1b56$0$59730$c3e8da3$e074e489@news.astraweb.com>, JF
> >> Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> >>> On 13-10-25 20:55, Alan Browne wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "As Wes said, as a minimum, the installer should ask before deleting
> >>>> itself - or as Jamie said, go no further than the Trash."
> >>>
> >>> Consider the scenario where this is a paid app with real money and no
> >>> rights to give it to friends. If the installer allows the .app to remain
> >>> on your drive, you then copy it and give it to your friends for free. By
> >>> hiding the .app from users, it reduces the odds of them finding it and
> >>> giving it to friends.
> >>>
> >>> Perhaps, if the DRM were a bit stronger, they could allow the app to
> >>> remain because it would be tied to your apple ID and require Apple ID
> >>> password verification to activate. But this would prevent installs on
> >>> systems not connected to the internet (think about secure systems).
> >>
> >> Here's a genius idea ... why not sell software on a hardware media in a
> >> box in a shop, and then have the software insist that the original
> >> hardware media is inserted / connected to the computer before the
> >> software will run.  ;-)
> >
> > Did anyone here actually buy the Lion-on-USB when that was sold in a box
> > in a shop?
> 
> The people who would need such probably aren't amongst the usenet crowd...

True enough, but there are plenty of voices on usenet saying, "Apple should make the update available on physical media".  I would expect at least some of those people to have put their money where their mouth is.  Otherwise, it seems an awful lot like armchair quarterbacking.  Complaining that a feature that they don't use is being removed because its being there gave them a nice fuzzy feeling inside even though they didn't actually use it.  It's the same as the whining when the 3.5" FDD was removed and we hear today when optical drives are being phased out.  Some hypothetical person (but not me) might want this feature, so Apple should provide it.

Robin

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#50759

On 2013.10.25, 22:11 , Your Name wrote:

> Here's a genius idea ... why not sell software on a hardware media in a
> box in a shop, and then have the software insist that the original
> hardware media is inserted / connected to the computer before the
> software will run.  ;-)

I hate to say it but I'm now a fan of the DL distribution of the OS. 
Very little material or energy expended to get the OS to my machines.

OTOH, Apple should offer mailable media for those who are in places with 
poor connectivity.


-- 
"Quotation, n: The act of repeating erroneously the words of another."
                                                 -Ambrose Bierce

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#50767

On 10-26-2013, 10:18, Alan Browne wrote:
> OTOH, Apple should offer mailable media for those who are in places with
> poor connectivity.

Indeed.  I recently heard from a fellow who still has to use ADSL, and 
whose phone lines had not long ago been down for twelve days.

-- 
Wes Groleau

   Nutrition for Blokes: Re-engineering your diet for life
   http://www.phlaunt.com/quentin

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#50768

On 2013.10.26, 10:42 , Wes Groleau wrote:
> On 10-26-2013, 10:18, Alan Browne wrote:
>> OTOH, Apple should offer mailable media for those who are in places with
>> poor connectivity.
>
> Indeed.  I recently heard from a fellow who still has to use ADSL, and
> whose phone lines had not long ago been down for twelve days.

In the NYT a couple weeks ago there was the story of a NY suburb area 
affected by Hurricane Sandy  - the phone co. is not replacing the old 
copper lines - radio based phones only (that don't work well).  It 
wasn't clear from the article if they got their cable back...


-- 
"Quotation, n: The act of repeating erroneously the words of another."
                                                 -Ambrose Bierce

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#50801

In article <0OOdnRik8JSgUvbPnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2013.10.25, 22:11 , Your Name wrote:
> > 
> > Here's a genius idea ... why not sell software on a hardware media in a
> > box in a shop, and then have the software insist that the original
> > hardware media is inserted / connected to the computer before the
> > software will run.  ;-)
> 
> I hate to say it but I'm now a fan of the DL distribution of the OS. 
> Very little material or energy expended to get the OS to my machines.

There's still huge amounts of energy expended storing and transfering
it. Not to mention the time you waste having to wait for it to download
... plus having to re-download it if the computer fails / storage dies,
etc. (apart from those who saved the installer elsewhere of course, but
that will be relatively few people).

It's amazing that in these days of the tiny attention span and "I want
it now" generation (which is NOT meaning you in particular) that they
even find waiting for the download at allacceptable.




> OTOH, Apple should offer mailable media for those who are in places with 
> poor connectivity.

Yep. There will be a pile of Farmer Joes out in the rural back country
still using dial-up and many miles from the nearest Apple reseller who
simply won't be able to upgrade.

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#50823

On 2013.10.26, 17:00 , Your Name wrote:
> In article <0OOdnRik8JSgUvbPnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2013.10.25, 22:11 , Your Name wrote:
>>>
>>> Here's a genius idea ... why not sell software on a hardware media in a
>>> box in a shop, and then have the software insist that the original
>>> hardware media is inserted / connected to the computer before the
>>> software will run.  ;-)
>>
>> I hate to say it but I'm now a fan of the DL distribution of the OS.
>> Very little material or energy expended to get the OS to my machines.
>
> There's still huge amounts of energy expended storing and transfering
> it.

I believe you need to research embodied energy.  The energy needed to 
make a box.  A DVD.  The entire trail back to the materials dug out of 
the ground.  The energy required to transport the same information that 
is on those disks is a pittance in comparison.

And that's before shipping and handling.

OTOH the servers holding the many copies of the distro will be 
re-purposed to other things over time as the number of downloaders wanes 
in the natural course of events.

As to waste, there is none. By not manufacturing boxes and sleeves and 
DVD's and so on and so forth there will never be anything to throw away 
- with its embodied energy and other resources.

-- 
"Quotation, n: The act of repeating erroneously the words of another."
                                                 -Ambrose Bierce

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#50832

On 10-26-2013, 17:00, Your Name wrote:
> There's still huge amounts of energy expended storing and transfering

I wonder how many are actually stored in order to make them available 
for download?  Maybe two dozen master/backup copies?   The domain name 
system manages to survive with a mere thirteen root name-servers.

Can you explain to us how copying and storing two dozen large files 
takes more energy than manufacturing and storing millions of DVDs or 
flash drives?

Can you explain to us how downloading millions of files takes more 
energy than delivering millions of DVDs or flash drives?

> it. Not to mention the time you waste having to wait for it to download

Right.  I have no life apart from your computer, and I have to suspend 
even that when something is downloading.  And since that is not 
acceptable, I will instead order a DVD or flash drive and wait two weeks 
for delivery.

You have DEFINITELY lost me on this one.

-- 
Wes Groleau

    “A man with an experience is never
     at the mercy of a man with an argument.”
                       — Ron Allen

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