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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #68560 > unrolled thread

Gassee joins the fray

Started bynmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello)
First post2015-01-19 16:50 -0700
Last post2015-01-23 14:16 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 220 — 21 participants

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Contents

  Gassee joins the fray nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2015-01-19 16:50 -0700
    Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-20 00:01 +0000
      Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-19 22:18 -0500
        Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-20 15:43 +0000
          Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-20 11:16 -0500
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-20 16:28 +0000
            Re: Gassee joins the fray TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> - 2015-01-20 12:39 -0600
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 06:18 +0000
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2015-01-20 14:05 -0500
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 06:19 +0000
          Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-20 19:53 -0500
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 02:40 +0000
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Lao-Ming Liu <laomingliu@gmail.com> - 2015-01-20 20:18 -0800
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 04:42 +0000
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-20 22:31 -0700
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-21 21:46 -0800
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Lao-Ming Liu <laomingliu@gmail.com> - 2015-01-20 22:01 -0800
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-20 23:12 -0700
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-01-21 09:56 +0000
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2015-01-21 09:22 -0600
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 15:49 +0000
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-21 10:59 -0500
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 16:29 +0000
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 16:52 +0000
                          Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 17:06 +0000
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 13:40 -0500
                              Re: Gassee joins the fray Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-01-21 19:02 +0000
                                Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 14:09 -0500
                                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 19:23 +0000
                              Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 19:19 +0000
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 19:46 +0000
                              Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 19:50 +0000
                                Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 20:43 +0000
                                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 20:55 +0000
                                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-21 14:00 -0700
                                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 21:09 +0000
                                      Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 16:14 -0500
                                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 21:19 +0000
                                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 23:53 +0000
                                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-22 00:06 +0000
                                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-21 13:55 -0700
                                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 23:55 +0000
                                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-21 17:41 -0700
                                  Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 16:13 -0500
                                Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-21 16:10 -0500
                                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 21:12 +0000
                                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-21 23:57 +0000
                                    Re: Gassee joins the fray dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-01-22 15:16 +1300
                              Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 11:59 -0500
                                Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-23 01:04 +0000
                                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 03:04 +0000
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-01-22 11:59 +1300
                          Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-21 23:17 +0000
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-22 20:42 -0500
                          Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-22 22:14 -0500
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 03:52 +0000
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-22 22:14 -0800
                              Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 14:21 +0000
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2015-01-21 23:12 -0500
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-24 18:42 -0500
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-24 18:40 -0500
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 02:53 +0000
    Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-21 21:36 -0800
      Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-22 16:55 +0000
        Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-22 12:14 -0500
          Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-22 17:24 +0000
          Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-22 13:25 -0800
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-22 22:05 +0000
          Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-22 22:06 -0800
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 14:16 +0000
            Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
        Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-01-24 18:47 -0500
          Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 02:57 +0000
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-24 21:09 -0700
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 09:30 -0500
                Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-25 16:19 +0000
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-25 09:22 -0700
          Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 11:09 +0000
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-26 14:53 +0000
      Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 12:14 -0500
        Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-22 22:03 -0800
          Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 00:00 -0800
            Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 09:52 -0500
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 15:13 +0000
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-01-23 15:40 +0000
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 11:28 -0500
                Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 11:44 -0800
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:32 -0800
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:44 -0800
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:48 -0800
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:50 -0800
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:15 +0000
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0500
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-01-24 10:56 +0000
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-24 11:05 -0800
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 16:22 -0500
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-24 21:51 +0000
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-25 12:20 +1300
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 02:38 +0000
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-24 15:32 -0800
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:14 +0000
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0500
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:29 +0000
                Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 15:35 -0500
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-24 12:38 -0800
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:33 +0000
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:30 -0800
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:42 -0800
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:54 -0800
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 15:00 -0800
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 08:50 -0500
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-01-24 17:07 +0000
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 16:35 -0500
                          Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-25 00:03 +0000
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 09:19 -0500
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:13 +0000
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 11:01 +0000
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-26 21:34 -0500
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:07 +0000
              Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0500
          Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 14:12 +0000
          Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 09:49 -0500
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 15:08 +0000
              Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 10:49 -0500
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 16:18 +0000
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 11:30 -0500
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 16:55 +0000
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-23 12:03 -0500
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 17:07 +0000
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 11:41 -0800
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:39 -0800
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:45 -0800
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 16:19 -0500
                          Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-24 21:38 +0000
                          Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-24 18:45 -0800
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 03:04 +0000
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 11:17 -0700
                Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 18:46 +0000
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-01-24 10:46 +1300
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-01-24 10:54 +0000
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-24 13:55 +0000
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-24 10:42 -0500
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 16:14 -0500
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-25 03:54 +0000
              Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-23 17:34 +0000
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 17:49 +0000
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-23 18:05 +0000
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 18:37 +0000
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 11:41 -0700
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 18:43 +0000
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 14:13 -0500
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 12:23 -0700
                          Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 19:28 +0000
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:58 +0000
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:58 +0000
                          Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-26 14:46 +0000
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-23 20:46 +0000
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 10:17 +1300
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 14:05 -0500
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 19:08 +0000
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 11:20 -0700
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:40 -0800
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 18:23 -0700
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 18:21 -0800
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 20:50 -0700
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 10:15 +1300
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-23 23:19 +0000
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 13:16 +1300
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 08:48 -0500
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-01-24 09:20 +0000
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-01-23 15:38 +0000
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:36 -0800
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:45 -0800
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 23:17 +0000
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-24 17:14 -0500
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-24 22:37 +0000
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-25 12:24 +1300
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:40 +0000
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-26 13:39 -0500
                Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0500
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 18:22 -0700
                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 18:21 -0800
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 22:05 -0500
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 20:46 -0700
                      Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 19:55 -0800
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 21:05 -0700
                          Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 20:57 -0800
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 21:01 -0800
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-24 00:12 -0500
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 18:31 +1300
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-01-23 23:17 -0700
                            Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 08:52 -0500
                              Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-24 18:40 -0800
                                Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 03:03 +0000
                                Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 09:27 -0500
                                  Re: Gassee joins the fray sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-01-26 01:50 +0000
                                    Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-25 22:25 -0500
                                Re: Gassee joins the fray JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-25 14:56 -0500
                                  Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-25 20:19 +0000
                                  Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-26 21:55 -0500
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 20:07 -0800
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 23:57 -0500
                        Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:45 +0000
                    Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-26 21:52 -0500
                Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:37 +0000
                Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-26 21:49 -0500
          Re: Gassee joins the fray Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 11:26 -0500
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-01-24 10:20 +1300
            Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-23 14:43 -0800
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2015-01-23 14:48 -0800
              Re: Gassee joins the fray Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-26 10:56 +0000
          Re: Gassee joins the fray nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-23 13:44 -0500
    Re: Gassee joins the fray "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-01-22 20:37 -0500
      Re: Gassee joins the fray nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2015-01-22 20:55 -0700
        Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 03:59 +0000
      Re: Gassee joins the fray Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-22 22:09 -0800
        Re: Gassee joins the fray Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-23 14:16 +0000

Page 10 of 11 — ← Prev page 1 … 8 9 [10] 11  Next page →


#68994

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2015-01-26 10:40 +0000
Message-ID<slrnmcc6df.v83.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#68894
Okay, so one time? In band camp? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> was all, like:
> One solution was a package: Get Steve Jobs back along with rights to an
> OS that can be used to replace MacOS. I suspect the two cane together as
> a package.

Revisionist bullshit. When Apple bought NeXT, Jobs was not part of the
purchase. He was busy with a little company he'd named Pixar and had no
interest in coming back to Apple.

> But getting a Unix core wasn't a compromise, it was an advantage since
> Apple could pursue not only the Mac Installed base but also the Next
> and other Unix installed bases.

The number of Next and Unix users was even smaller than the number of
Mac users, and was of no consideration whatsoever.


-- 
http://2blog.kreme.com

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#69029

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2015-01-26 13:39 -0500
Message-ID<260120151339509562%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#68994
In article <slrnmcc6df.v83.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org>, Lewis
<g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> > One solution was a package: Get Steve Jobs back along with rights to an
> > OS that can be used to replace MacOS. I suspect the two cane together as
> > a package.
> 
> Revisionist bullshit. When Apple bought NeXT, Jobs was not part of the
> purchase. He was busy with a little company he'd named Pixar and had no
> interest in coming back to Apple.

jobs absolutely was part of the purchase.

> > But getting a Unix core wasn't a compromise, it was an advantage since
> > Apple could pursue not only the Mac Installed base but also the Next
> > and other Unix installed bases.
> 
> The number of Next and Unix users was even smaller than the number of
> Mac users, and was of no consideration whatsoever.

true.

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#68826

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2015-01-23 18:22 -0500
Message-ID<230120151822546787%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#68804
In article <m9uict$83v$1@dont-email.me>, Oregonian Haruspex
<bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:

> >> Apple is targetting the hipster Starbucks crowd, not the IT geeks who
> >> know Unix. Another example of the Unix side no longer being pushed,
> >> Apple no longer includes X windows with OS-X.
> > 
> > Good thing too.
> 
> It was the Unix geek that bought an OS X machine before anybody else 
> did.

no it wasn't.

> It was a Unix geek that wrote the programs,

no it wasn't.

> it was a Unix geek 
> that got hired at Apple to improve the system, 

no it wasn't.

> it was a Unix geek that 
> got his whole family onto OS X, 

no it wasn't.

> and it will be a Unix geek who undoes 
> Apple's hopes of growing its desktop market share, if Apple doesn't get 
> its shit together.

no it won't.

> Apple didn't have to put a user-accessible Unix into OS X (or any Unix 
> at all).  This was a deliberate decision by Steve to court the computer 
> geeks out there, because they - not the Starbucks hipsters - are the 
> ones who initiate the long-term trends in the computer world.

they did if they wanted to sell something.

look at linux marketshare, or actually the lack of it.

apple *had* to put a quality interface on top of unix to make a
sellable product and 99% of buyers don't know nor care what unix is
anyway. apple could replace the unix layer entirely and almost nobody
would notice a difference.

users want to get work done not waste their time screwing with the os
itself.

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#68832

FromMichelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date2015-01-23 18:22 -0700
Message-ID<230120151822053879%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to#68804
In article <m9uict$83v$1@dont-email.me>, Oregonian Haruspex
<bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:

> It was the Unix geek that bought an OS X machine before anybody else 
> did.

Wrong.  There were a lot of us who had Macs running Mac OS 9.x who
started running OS X right away, and many more who started running OS X
10.0 as soon as it came out.  The vast majority of us didn't know
didley squat about unix.

> Apple didn't have to put a user-accessible Unix into OS X (or any Unix 
> at all).  This was a deliberate decision by Steve to court the computer 
> geeks out there, because they - not the Starbucks hipsters - are the 
> ones who initiate the long-term trends in the computer world.

OS X is based on the NeXT operating system, which is based on unix.  OS
X put the Mac UI on top of unix.  (Yes, this is a gross simplification,
but it seems that you need a gross simplification to understand it.)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#68835

FromOregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com>
Date2015-01-23 18:21 -0800
Message-ID<m9uvhh$6ud$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#68832
On 2015-01-24 01:22:05 +0000, Michelle Steiner said:

> In article <m9uict$83v$1@dont-email.me>, Oregonian Haruspex
> <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> It was the Unix geek that bought an OS X machine before anybody else
>> did.
> 
> Wrong.  There were a lot of us who had Macs running Mac OS 9.x who
> started running OS X right away, and many more who started running OS X
> 10.0 as soon as it came out.  The vast majority of us didn't know
> didley squat about unix.

A lot of people running OS 9 did indeed upgrade to OS X, but only after 
OS X was introduced did we see huge year-on-year growth in terms of the 
install base.  The Mac had been consistently declining in market share 
for years and years before that.

>> Apple didn't have to put a user-accessible Unix into OS X (or any Unix
>> at all).  This was a deliberate decision by Steve to court the computer
>> geeks out there, because they - not the Starbucks hipsters - are the
>> ones who initiate the long-term trends in the computer world.
> 
> OS X is based on the NeXT operating system, which is based on unix.  OS
> X put the Mac UI on top of unix.  (Yes, this is a gross simplification,
> but it seems that you need a gross simplification to understand it.)

You might think so but I was a Nextstep (on an HP PA-RISC system) user 
before I used OS X.  OS X in fact started with the System 9 UI in 
Rhapsody, and then they decided to move to a jellied ice cube theme for 
the release.  However, there's almost nothing in common between the 
look-n-feel of OS X and OS 9.  The idea of UI continuity was abandoned 
after the Rhapsody betas.

I know you think you're being cute but there's no need to be insulting. 
 Your need to add a gradeschool level insult betrays the shallowness of 
your argument here.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#68838

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2015-01-23 22:05 -0500
Message-ID<230120152205368503%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#68835
In article <m9uvhh$6ud$1@dont-email.me>, Oregonian Haruspex
<bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:

> >> It was the Unix geek that bought an OS X machine before anybody else
> >> did.
> > 
> > Wrong.  There were a lot of us who had Macs running Mac OS 9.x who
> > started running OS X right away, and many more who started running OS X
> > 10.0 as soon as it came out.  The vast majority of us didn't know
> > didley squat about unix.
> 
> A lot of people running OS 9 did indeed upgrade to OS X, but only after 
> OS X was introduced did we see huge year-on-year growth in terms of the 
> install base.  The Mac had been consistently declining in market share 
> for years and years before that.

mostly windows switchers, particularly after the intel transition, when
macs could run windows apps natively alongside native mac apps or
dual-boot for just windows. *that* is when sales started to spike up. 

> >> Apple didn't have to put a user-accessible Unix into OS X (or any Unix
> >> at all).  This was a deliberate decision by Steve to court the computer
> >> geeks out there, because they - not the Starbucks hipsters - are the
> >> ones who initiate the long-term trends in the computer world.
> > 
> > OS X is based on the NeXT operating system, which is based on unix.  OS
> > X put the Mac UI on top of unix.  (Yes, this is a gross simplification,
> > but it seems that you need a gross simplification to understand it.)
> 
> You might think so but I was a Nextstep (on an HP PA-RISC system) user 
> before I used OS X.  OS X in fact started with the System 9 UI in 
> Rhapsody, and then they decided to move to a jellied ice cube theme for 
> the release.  However, there's almost nothing in common between the 
> look-n-feel of OS X and OS 9.  The idea of UI continuity was abandoned 
> after the Rhapsody betas.

os x is a combination of nextstep/openstep and classic mac os. 

> I know you think you're being cute but there's no need to be insulting. 
>  Your need to add a gradeschool level insult betrays the shallowness of 
> your argument here.

you might want to look in a mirror.

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#68840

FromMichelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date2015-01-23 20:46 -0700
Message-ID<230120152046142826%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to#68835
In article <m9uvhh$6ud$1@dont-email.me>, Oregonian Haruspex
<bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On 2015-01-24 01:22:05 +0000, Michelle Steiner said:
> 
> > In article <m9uict$83v$1@dont-email.me>, Oregonian Haruspex
> > <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> It was the Unix geek that bought an OS X machine before anybody else
> >> did.
> > 
> > Wrong.  There were a lot of us who had Macs running Mac OS 9.x who
> > started running OS X right away, and many more who started running OS X
> > 10.0 as soon as it came out.  The vast majority of us didn't know
> > didley squat about unix.
> 
> A lot of people running OS 9 did indeed upgrade to OS X, but only after 
> OS X was introduced did we see huge year-on-year growth in terms of the 
> install base.  The Mac had been consistently declining in market share 
> for years and years before that.

So, was it because of the capabilities of OS X that people who didn't
know squat about unix bought, or was it because they knew that they
could run bare unix?  Although there were some of the latter, I submit
that the majority were of the former.

> > OS X is based on the NeXT operating system, which is based on unix.  OS
> > X put the Mac UI on top of unix.  (Yes, this is a gross simplification,
> > but it seems that you need a gross simplification to understand it.)
> 
> You might think so but I was a Nextstep (on an HP PA-RISC system) user 
> before I used OS X.  OS X in fact started with the System 9 UI in 
> Rhapsody, and then they decided to move to a jellied ice cube theme for 
> the release.  However, there's almost nothing in common between the 
> look-n-feel of OS X and OS 9.  The idea of UI continuity was abandoned 
> after the Rhapsody betas.

There is plenty of the OS 9 interface in OS X.  As I recall, the reason
Apple dropped Rhapsody is that users and developers objected to the
Blue Box/Yellow Box paradigm.

> I know you think you're being cute but there's no need to be insulting. 

Oh, only you can be insulting?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#68842

FromOregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com>
Date2015-01-23 19:55 -0800
Message-ID<m9v524$qnt$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#68840
On 2015-01-24 03:46:14 +0000, Michelle Steiner said:

> In article <m9uvhh$6ud$1@dont-email.me>, Oregonian Haruspex
> <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2015-01-24 01:22:05 +0000, Michelle Steiner said:
>> 
>>> In article <m9uict$83v$1@dont-email.me>, Oregonian Haruspex
>>> <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> It was the Unix geek that bought an OS X machine before anybody else
>>>> did.
>>> 
>>> Wrong.  There were a lot of us who had Macs running Mac OS 9.x who
>>> started running OS X right away, and many more who started running OS X
>>> 10.0 as soon as it came out.  The vast majority of us didn't know
>>> didley squat about unix.
>> 
>> A lot of people running OS 9 did indeed upgrade to OS X, but only after
>> OS X was introduced did we see huge year-on-year growth in terms of the
>> install base.  The Mac had been consistently declining in market share
>> for years and years before that.
> 
> So, was it because of the capabilities of OS X that people who didn't
> know squat about unix bought, or was it because they knew that they
> could run bare unix?  Although there were some of the latter, I submit
> that the majority were of the former.

It was because of the combination of a really good UI / GUI layer 
(essentially Nextstep with new graphics) and a nice geek-friendly Unix 
underbelly that OS X was successful.  These people weren't the 
majority, but they were the ones who wrote (and still write) the OS X 
software, who got their families to use the OS, and so on.

>>> OS X is based on the NeXT operating system, which is based on unix.  OS
>>> X put the Mac UI on top of unix.  (Yes, this is a gross simplification,
>>> but it seems that you need a gross simplification to understand it.)
>> 
>> You might think so but I was a Nextstep (on an HP PA-RISC system) user
>> before I used OS X.  OS X in fact started with the System 9 UI in
>> Rhapsody, and then they decided to move to a jellied ice cube theme for
>> the release.  However, there's almost nothing in common between the
>> look-n-feel of OS X and OS 9.  The idea of UI continuity was abandoned
>> after the Rhapsody betas.
> 
> There is plenty of the OS 9 interface in OS X.  As I recall, the reason
> Apple dropped Rhapsody is that users and developers objected to the
> Blue Box/Yellow Box paradigm.

Developers used the Yellow Box and Blue Box.  They were called Classic 
Mode and Carbon.

>> I know you think you're being cute but there's no need to be insulting.
> 
> Oh, only you can be insulting?

I didn't call you any names sweetie.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#68843

FromMichelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date2015-01-23 21:05 -0700
Message-ID<230120152105040648%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to#68842
In article <m9v524$qnt$1@dont-email.me>, Oregonian Haruspex
<bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > There is plenty of the OS 9 interface in OS X.  As I recall, the reason
> > Apple dropped Rhapsody is that users and developers objected to the
> > Blue Box/Yellow Box paradigm.
> 
> Developers used the Yellow Box and Blue Box.  They were called Classic 
> Mode and Carbon.

Not the same; Cocoa and Carbon replaced the yellow and blue boxes,
which gave the OS one interface instead of the two that the colored
boxes required.

> >> I know you think you're being cute but there's no need to be
> insulting.
> > 
> > Oh, only you can be insulting?
> 
> I didn't call you any names sweetie.

Only those whom you insulted first are allowed to insult you?  Once you
started insulting people, you made yourself fair game, darling.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#68846

FromOregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com>
Date2015-01-23 20:57 -0800
Message-ID<m9v8nm$489$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#68843
On 2015-01-24 04:05:04 +0000, Michelle Steiner said:

> In article <m9v524$qnt$1@dont-email.me>, Oregonian Haruspex
> <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>>> There is plenty of the OS 9 interface in OS X.  As I recall, the reason
>>> Apple dropped Rhapsody is that users and developers objected to the
>>> Blue Box/Yellow Box paradigm.
>> 
>> Developers used the Yellow Box and Blue Box.  They were called Classic
>> Mode and Carbon.
> 
> Not the same; Cocoa and Carbon replaced the yellow and blue boxes,
> which gave the OS one interface instead of the two that the colored
> boxes required.

The interfaces were glaringly different even to a user when using 
Carbon or Classic apps.  To a developer even moreso.

>>>> I know you think you're being cute but there's no need to be
>> insulting.
>>> 
>>> Oh, only you can be insulting?
>> 
>> I didn't call you any names sweetie.
> 
> Only those whom you insulted first are allowed to insult you?  Once you
> started insulting people, you made yourself fair game, darling.

Who did I insult "first" in this thread or any other?  I don't go there first.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#68847

FromAlan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net>
Date2015-01-23 21:01 -0800
Message-ID<m9v8v4$q22$1@news.datemas.de>
In reply to#68846
On 2015-01-24 04:57:58 +0000, Oregonian Haruspex said:

> On 2015-01-24 04:05:04 +0000, Michelle Steiner said:
> 
>> In article <m9v524$qnt$1@dont-email.me>, Oregonian Haruspex
>> <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>> There is plenty of the OS 9 interface in OS X.  As I recall, the reason
>>>> Apple dropped Rhapsody is that users and developers objected to the
>>>> Blue Box/Yellow Box paradigm.
>>> 
>>> Developers used the Yellow Box and Blue Box.  They were called Classic
>>> Mode and Carbon.
>> 
>> Not the same; Cocoa and Carbon replaced the yellow and blue boxes,
>> which gave the OS one interface instead of the two that the colored
>> boxes required.
> 
> The interfaces were glaringly different even to a user when using 
> Carbon or Classic apps.  To a developer even moreso.

Let's see if you can simply admit you were wrong...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#68848

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2015-01-24 00:12 -0500
Message-ID<240120150012315370%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#68846
In article <m9v8nm$489$1@dont-email.me>, Oregonian Haruspex
<bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:

> >>> There is plenty of the OS 9 interface in OS X.  As I recall, the reason
> >>> Apple dropped Rhapsody is that users and developers objected to the
> >>> Blue Box/Yellow Box paradigm.
> >> 
> >> Developers used the Yellow Box and Blue Box.  They were called Classic
> >> Mode and Carbon.
> > 
> > Not the same; Cocoa and Carbon replaced the yellow and blue boxes,
> > which gave the OS one interface instead of the two that the colored
> > boxes required.
> 
> The interfaces were glaringly different even to a user when using 
> Carbon or Classic apps.  To a developer even moreso.

that's because carbon was os x native and classic was os 9. that's a
glaring difference.

as far as developers, the apis weren't all that different. carbon was a
subset of classic mac os with some minor changes. for some apps, it was
relatively easy to migrate.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#68849

FromYour Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date2015-01-24 18:31 +1300
Message-ID<240120151831395179%YourName@YourISP.com>
In reply to#68846
In article <m9v8nm$489$1@dont-email.me>, Oregonian Haruspex
<bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 2015-01-24 04:05:04 +0000, Michelle Steiner said:
> > In article <m9v524$qnt$1@dont-email.me>, Oregonian Haruspex
> > <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> >>> There is plenty of the OS 9 interface in OS X.  As I recall, the reason
> >>> Apple dropped Rhapsody is that users and developers objected to the
> >>> Blue Box/Yellow Box paradigm.
> >> 
> >> Developers used the Yellow Box and Blue Box.  They were called Classic
> >> Mode and Carbon.
> > 
> > Not the same; Cocoa and Carbon replaced the yellow and blue boxes,
> > which gave the OS one interface instead of the two that the colored
> > boxes required.
> 
> The interfaces were glaringly different even to a user when using 
> Carbon or Classic apps.  To a developer even moreso.

There's very little real difference between Mac OS 9 and early versions
of Mac OS X ... a few bits moved around, and of course the candy colour
theme. The biggest difference is of course the Dock (although via
third-party developers, you could use something like A-Dock to add that
to OS 9 as well).

Most of my clients changed systems as they upgraded computers with
little or no problems at all, and quite a few are older users with no
geeky-tech interest at all and/or business users who simply want to get
their work done.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#68851

FromMichelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date2015-01-23 23:17 -0700
Message-ID<230120152317216901%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to#68846
In article <m9v8nm$489$1@dont-email.me>, Oregonian Haruspex
<bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > Not the same; Cocoa and Carbon replaced the yellow and blue boxes,
> > which gave the OS one interface instead of the two that the colored
> > boxes required.
> 
> The interfaces were glaringly different even to a user when using 
> Carbon or Classic apps.  To a developer even moreso.

Carbon is one of Apple Inc.'s C-based application programming
interfaces (APIs) for the Macintosh operating system. Carbon provided a
good degree of backward compatibility for programs that ran on the
now-obsolete Mac OS 8 and 9. Developers could use the Carbon APIs to
port their "classic" Mac software to the Mac OS X platform with far
less effort than a port to the entirely different Cocoa system which
originated in OpenStep.

With the purchase of NeXT in late 1996, Apple developed a new operating
system strategy based largely on the existing OpenStep platform. The
new Rhapsody was relatively simple, it retained most of OpenStep's
existing object libraries under the name "Yellow Box", ported
OpenStep's existing GUI to make it look more Mac-like and less
NeXT-like, ported several major APIs from the Mac OS to Rhapsody's
underlying Unix-like system (notably QuickTime and AppleSearch), and
added an emulator known as the "Blue Box" that ran existing Mac OS
software.

When this plan was unveiled at the Worldwide Developers Conference in
1997 there was some push-back from existing Mac OS developers, who were
upset that their code bases would effectively be locked into an
emulator that was unlikely to ever be updated. They took to calling the
Blue Box the "penalty box".[citation needed] Larger developers like
Microsoft and Adobe balked outright, and refused to consider porting to
OpenStep, which was so different from the existing Mac OS that there
was little or no portability.
Apple took these concerns to heart. When Steve Jobs announced this
change in direction at the 1998 WWDC, he stated that "what developers
really wanted was a modern version of the Mac OS, and Apple [was] going
to deliver it". The statement was met with thunderous applause. The
original Rhapsody concept was eventually released in 1999 as Mac OS X
Server 1.0, the only release of its type.

In order to offer a real and well supported upgrade path for existing
Mac OS code bases, Apple introduced the Carbon system. Carbon consists
of many libraries and functions that offer a Mac-like API, but running
on top of the underlying Unix-like OS, rather than a copy of the Mac OS
running in emulation. The Carbon libraries are extensively cleaned up,
modernized and better "protected". While the Mac OS was filled with
APIs that shared memory to pass data, under Carbon all such access was
re-implemented using accessor subroutines on opaque data types. This
allowed Carbon to support true multitasking and memory protection,
features Mac developers had been requesting for a decade. Other changes
from the pre-existing API removed features which were conceptually
incompatible with Mac OS X, or simply obsolete. For example,
applications could no longer install interrupt handlers or device
drivers.

In order to support Carbon, the entire Rhapsody model of the OS
changed. Whereas Rhapsody would effectively be OpenStep with an
emulator, under the new system both the OpenStep and Carbon would,
where possible, share common code. To do this, many of the useful bits
of code from the lower-levels of the OpenStep system, known as
Foundation, were re-implemented in a pure-C form. This code became
known as Core Foundation, or CF for short. A version of the Yellow Box
ported to call CF became the new Cocoa (API), and the Mac-like calls of
Carbon also called the same functions. Under the new system, Carbon and
Cocoa were peers. This conversion would normally have slowed the
performance of Cocoa as the object methods called into the underlying C
libraries, but Apple used a technique they called toll-free bridging to
reduce this impact.

As part of this conversion, Apple also ported the graphics engine from
the license-encumbered Display PostScript to the licence-free Quartz.
Quartz provided native calls that could be used from either Carbon or
Cocoa, as well as offering Java 2D-like interfaces as well. The
underlying operating system itself was further isolated and released as
the Darwin (operating system).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#68859

FromWarren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com>
Date2015-01-24 08:52 -0500
Message-ID<54c3a3aa$0$19905$c3e8da3$33881b6a@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#68846
In article <m9v8nm$489$1@dont-email.me>,
 Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On 2015-01-24 04:05:04 +0000, Michelle Steiner said:
> 
> > In article <m9v524$qnt$1@dont-email.me>, Oregonian Haruspex
> > <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> >>> There is plenty of the OS 9 interface in OS X.  As I recall, the reason
> >>> Apple dropped Rhapsody is that users and developers objected to the
> >>> Blue Box/Yellow Box paradigm.
> >> 
> >> Developers used the Yellow Box and Blue Box.  They were called Classic
> >> Mode and Carbon.
> > 
> > Not the same; Cocoa and Carbon replaced the yellow and blue boxes,
> > which gave the OS one interface instead of the two that the colored
> > boxes required.
> 
> The interfaces were glaringly different even to a user when using 
> Carbon or Classic apps.  To a developer even moreso.
> 
> >>>> I know you think you're being cute but there's no need to be
> >> insulting.
> >>> 
> >>> Oh, only you can be insulting?
> >> 
> >> I didn't call you any names sweetie.
> > 
> > Only those whom you insulted first are allowed to insult you?  Once you
> > started insulting people, you made yourself fair game, darling.
> 
> Who did I insult "first" in this thread or any other?  I don't go there first.

Ooh ooh, mr retired, insult me next i love it when you're forceful
-- 
Where's the Vangelis music?
Pris' tongue is sticking out in in the wide shot after Batty has kissed her.
They have put back more tits into the Zhora dressing  room scene.
  -- notes for Blade Runner

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#68917

FromOregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com>
Date2015-01-24 18:40 -0800
Message-ID<ma1l2q$fhf$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#68859
On 2015-01-24 13:52:41 +0000, Warren Oates said:

> In article <m9v8nm$489$1@dont-email.me>,
>  Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2015-01-24 04:05:04 +0000, Michelle Steiner said:
>> 
>>> In article <m9v524$qnt$1@dont-email.me>, Oregonian Haruspex
>>> <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>> There is plenty of the OS 9 interface in OS X.  As I recall, the reason
>>>>> Apple dropped Rhapsody is that users and developers objected to the
>>>>> Blue Box/Yellow Box paradigm.
>>>> 
>>>> Developers used the Yellow Box and Blue Box.  They were called Classic
>>>> Mode and Carbon.
>>> 
>>> Not the same; Cocoa and Carbon replaced the yellow and blue boxes,
>>> which gave the OS one interface instead of the two that the colored
>>> boxes required.
>> 
>> The interfaces were glaringly different even to a user when using 
>> Carbon or Classic apps.  To a developer even moreso.
>> 
>>>>>> I know you think you're being cute but there's no need to be
>>>> insulting.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Oh, only you can be insulting?
>>>> 
>>>> I didn't call you any names sweetie.
>>> 
>>> Only those whom you insulted first are allowed to insult you?  Once you
>>> started insulting people, you made yourself fair game, darling.
>> 
>> Who did I insult "first" in this thread or any other?  I don't go there first.
> 
> Ooh ooh, mr retired, insult me next i love it when you're forceful

This just seems to prove my suspicion that you're not just an ardent 
Apple defender (perhaps reputation manager would be more apt) but also 
a troll.

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#68921

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-01-25 03:03 +0000
Message-ID<cij4oeFn0i3U6@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#68917
On 2015-01-25, Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 2015-01-24 13:52:41 +0000, Warren Oates said:
>
>> Ooh ooh, mr retired, insult me next i love it when you're forceful
>
> This just seems to prove my suspicion that you're not just an ardent 
> Apple defender (perhaps reputation manager would be more apt) but also 
> a troll.

Keep the tin foil hat on tightly!

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#68932

FromWarren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com>
Date2015-01-25 09:27 -0500
Message-ID<54c4fd5d$0$32451$c3e8da3$cc4fe22d@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#68917
In article <ma1l2q$fhf$1@dont-email.me>,
 Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:

> This just seems to prove my suspicion that you're not just an ardent 
> Apple defender (perhaps reputation manager would be more apt) but also 
> a troll.

Wrong vampire, dude.
-- 
Where's the Vangelis music?
Pris' tongue is sticking out in in the wide shot after Batty has kissed her.
They have put back more tits into the Zhora dressing  room scene.
  -- notes for Blade Runner

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#68979

Fromsctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net>
Date2015-01-26 01:50 +0000
Message-ID<ma46hq$nbs$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#68932
On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 09:27:41 -0500, Warren Oates wrote:

> In article <ma1l2q$fhf$1@dont-email.me>,
>  Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> This just seems to prove my suspicion that you're not just an ardent
>> Apple defender (perhaps reputation manager would be more apt) but also
>> a troll.
> 
> Wrong vampire, dude.

WHOOEEEEEEEEEEEEE!  Do you suck that thar' blood!
 ,,,Google www.suckinbloodinthegreatlandmass.com
  Are you sittin' on the couch eatin' popcorn?

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#68989

FromWarren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com>
Date2015-01-25 22:25 -0500
Message-ID<54c5b3b3$0$31378$c3e8da3$a9097924@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#68979
In article <ma46hq$nbs$1@dont-email.me>,
 sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 09:27:41 -0500, Warren Oates wrote:
> 
> > In article <ma1l2q$fhf$1@dont-email.me>,
> >  Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> This just seems to prove my suspicion that you're not just an ardent
> >> Apple defender (perhaps reputation manager would be more apt) but also
> >> a troll.
> > 
> > Wrong vampire, dude.
> 
> WHOOEEEEEEEEEEEEE!  Do you suck that thar' blood!
>  ,,,Google www.suckinbloodinthegreatlandmass.com
>   Are you sittin' on the couch eatin' popcorn?

Who exactly do you think I am?
-- 
Where's the Vangelis music?
Pris' tongue is sticking out in in the wide shot after Batty has kissed her.
They have put back more tits into the Zhora dressing  room scene.
  -- notes for Blade Runner

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


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