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iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me

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  iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2014-01-18 12:11 -0600
    Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-18 13:18 -0500
      Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Ed Anson <EdAnson@comcast.net> - 2014-01-18 16:38 -0500
        Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-01-18 16:19 -0600
        Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-01-18 14:28 -0800
          Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Ed Anson <EdAnson@comcast.net> - 2014-01-18 19:45 -0500
            Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-01-19 00:06 -0500
              Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Ed Anson <EdAnson@comcast.net> - 2014-01-19 20:04 -0500
            Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2014-01-19 15:29 -0600
              Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-19 16:43 -0500
                Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-01-19 18:14 -0500
                  Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-19 18:41 -0500
                    Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-01-19 19:50 -0500
                Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2014-01-19 20:55 -0600
                  Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-01-19 23:42 -0500
                    Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-19 22:23 -0700
                    Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-20 12:45 -0800
                  Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-19 22:21 -0700
                    Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-01-19 23:19 -0800
                      Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-01-20 02:52 -0500
                        Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-01-21 01:44 +1300
                        Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-20 08:27 -0700
                      Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-20 04:00 -0500
                      Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-20 08:33 -0700
                        Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-01-20 08:51 -0800
                        Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-22 09:05 +0000
              Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2014-01-19 18:32 -0500
                Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-19 22:24 -0700
                  Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2014-01-20 02:14 -0500
                    Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-20 08:21 -0700
                Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-01-20 15:42 -0600
              Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-22 08:59 +0000
        Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-20 12:43 -0800
    Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-18 10:21 -0800
      Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-01-18 15:55 -0500
        Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-20 12:38 -0800
      Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2014-01-18 16:41 -0600
    Re: iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-01-18 16:16 -0600

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#54888 — iCloud only sync may be the deal killer for me

So, since installing Mavericks my calendar information doesn't sync.  
Turns out that this stuff is only synced now through iCloud, not through 
a local connection between the iOS device and the Mac.  WTF is that 
about, other than forcing people to use the crap service that is 
iCloud???

So, I tried.  Six hours of Calendar spinning a progress bar with zero 
internet activity happening on my router, I pulled the plug on the 
process.  Apple then promptly deleted years worth of calendar.  WTF is 
wrong with Apple that they think that under ANY conditions they have the 
right to delete ANY data from MY computer?  Assholes!  Apple has always 
had an less than ideal relationship with its customers due to Steve 
Jobs's arrognce being part of the corporate culture, but this is the 
first time IME that they have totally sucked.

Unless I find a workaround, this may be the deal killer for Apple and 
me.  Since my computer contains confidential information covered under 
HIPAA about hundreds of clients, I am very limited in my ability to use 
cloud computing since data security cannot be reasonably guaranteed.

Anyone know a local workaround for syncing calendars between Mac and iOS 
locally?

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#54891

In article <slrnldlguj.m4b.timmcn@sugaree.local>, Tim McNamara
<timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:

> So, since installing Mavericks my calendar information doesn't sync.  
> Turns out that this stuff is only synced now through iCloud, not through 
> a local connection between the iOS device and the Mac.  WTF is that 
> about, other than forcing people to use the crap service that is 
> iCloud???

apple removed sync services. it is a stupid decision, but there's not
much you can do now.

> So, I tried.  Six hours of Calendar spinning a progress bar with zero 
> internet activity happening on my router, I pulled the plug on the 
> process.  Apple then promptly deleted years worth of calendar.  WTF is 
> wrong with Apple that they think that under ANY conditions they have the 
> right to delete ANY data from MY computer?  Assholes! 

apple didn't delete anything. you interrupted the process before it was
done and therefore lost data. 

if you pull the plug on any process that is writing to a file, you are
more than likely to lose data.

if the data was important, you would have had one or more backups, so
the only loss would be the time it takes to restore it. 

> Apple has always 
> had an less than ideal relationship with its customers due to Steve 
> Jobs's arrognce being part of the corporate culture, but this is the 
> first time IME that they have totally sucked.

no, it's not the first time, just not in the way you think.

> Unless I find a workaround, this may be the deal killer for Apple and 
> me.  Since my computer contains confidential information covered under 
> HIPAA about hundreds of clients, I am very limited in my ability to use 
> cloud computing since data security cannot be reasonably guaranteed.
> 
> Anyone know a local workaround for syncing calendars between Mac and iOS 
> locally?

you can use os x server on another mac to sync without using icloud.

another option is google, although that is a worse choice than icloud.

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#54910

On 1/18/14 1:18 PM, nospam wrote:
> you can use os x server on another mac to sync without using icloud.

Indeed. That is the work-around that I will be implementing. Isn't it 
ironic, though, that the "free" upgrade to Mavericks will be costing me 
the hundreds of dollars for that other Mac just to replace functionality 
Apple has otherwise removed?

It seems that every major OS upgrade costs me a similar amount of money. 
Usually it is spent replacing apps that get broken by the upgrade. This 
is the first time I will have to buy hardware.

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#54915

In article <ZvydnevB0-juaUfPnZ2dnUVZ_o6dnZ2d@giganews.com>,
 Ed Anson <EdAnson@comcast.net> wrote:

> On 1/18/14 1:18 PM, nospam wrote:
> > you can use os x server on another mac to sync without using icloud.
> 
> Indeed. That is the work-around that I will be implementing. Isn't it 
> ironic, though, that the "free" upgrade to Mavericks will be costing me 
> the hundreds of dollars for that other Mac just to replace functionality 
> Apple has otherwise removed?
> 
> It seems that every major OS upgrade costs me a similar amount of money. 
> Usually it is spent replacing apps that get broken by the upgrade. This 
> is the first time I will have to buy hardware.

Schadenfreude moment, despite my sympathy.  Other people keep making fun 
of me for complaining about losing something important to me when I 
succumb to an "upgrade".

-- 
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

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#54920

In article <ZvydnevB0-juaUfPnZ2dnUVZ_o6dnZ2d@giganews.com>,
 Ed Anson <EdAnson@comcast.net> wrote:

> On 1/18/14 1:18 PM, nospam wrote:
> > you can use os x server on another mac to sync without using icloud.
> 
> Indeed. That is the work-around that I will be implementing. Isn't it 
> ironic, though, that the "free" upgrade to Mavericks will be costing me 
> the hundreds of dollars for that other Mac just to replace functionality 
> Apple has otherwise removed?
> 
> It seems that every major OS upgrade costs me a similar amount of money. 
> Usually it is spent replacing apps that get broken by the upgrade. This 
> is the first time I will have to buy hardware.

This is standard user P&M (pissing and moaning).  Your use-case is 
obviously outside that which their marketing has targetted.  If you 
think about it, most systems that contain HIPPA data would be connected 
to a closed, firewalled environment to protect that data.  Scheduling, 
patient names, and doctor's names are all things that non-authorized 
people shouldn't see.  Lucky for you a HIPPA auditor hasn't seen your 
system.

Where do you work?

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

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#54933

On 1/18/14 5:28 PM, Michael Vilain wrote:
> In article <ZvydnevB0-juaUfPnZ2dnUVZ_o6dnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>   Ed Anson <EdAnson@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On 1/18/14 1:18 PM, nospam wrote:
>>> you can use os x server on another mac to sync without using icloud.
>>
>> Indeed. That is the work-around that I will be implementing. Isn't it
>> ironic, though, that the "free" upgrade to Mavericks will be costing me
>> the hundreds of dollars for that other Mac just to replace functionality
>> Apple has otherwise removed?
>>
>> It seems that every major OS upgrade costs me a similar amount of money.
>> Usually it is spent replacing apps that get broken by the upgrade. This
>> is the first time I will have to buy hardware.
>
> This is standard user P&M (pissing and moaning).  Your use-case is
> obviously outside that which their marketing has targetted.  If you
> think about it, most systems that contain HIPPA data would be connected
> to a closed, firewalled environment to protect that data.  Scheduling,
> patient names, and doctor's names are all things that non-authorized
> people shouldn't see.  Lucky for you a HIPPA auditor hasn't seen your
> system.
>
> Where do you work?
>

You may have mistaken me for the OP. Indeed, his use case may be a bit 
unusual, but there are many others (including me) who have concerns 
about using iCloud for this purpose.

For many people, iCloud is probably the best way to handle syncing, 
because it is trivial to set up. But some of us prefer to keep our 
important and/or private information out of the cloud. It's not just a 
matter of privacy. Control is also a concern. Some information is 
important enough to me that I must insist on controlling it myself. No 
matter what anyone says, if it's in the cloud I don't control it.

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#54944

Ed Anson:
> For many people, iCloud is probably the best way to handle syncing, 
> because it is trivial to set up.

Indeed. I haven't understood any of this thread because iCloud works
fine for my wife and me.

> But some of us prefer to keep our 
> important and/or private information out of the cloud. It's not just a 
> matter of privacy. Control is also a concern. Some information is 
> important enough to me that I must insist on controlling it myself. No 
> matter what anyone says, if it's in the cloud I don't control it.

OK, but that means that you can't communicate your "important and/or
private information" via the Internet at all. What assurance do you
have that your date will not be held in a remote server (what we used
to call "the cloud") for some indeterminate period? Sounds like
registered mail is the way to go for you. It is probably the most
secure means of communication available to the public in the U.S.
(other than personal contact between persons who are known to each
other).

-- 
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

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#55019

On 1/19/14 12:06 AM, Davoud wrote:
> OK, but that means that you can't communicate your "important and/or
> private information" via the Internet at all. What assurance do you
> have that your date will not be held in a remote server (what we used
> to call "the cloud") for some indeterminate period? Sounds like
> registered mail is the way to go for you. It is probably the most
> secure means of communication available to the public in the U.S.
> (other than personal contact between persons who are known to each
> other).
I do keep my private information off the internet. That's why I'm still 
using Mountain Lion -- it lets me sync via USB, which doe not involve 
the internet.

I have finally decided to set up a Mac Mini as a server, which will 
enable me to sync via my LAN. It's not as good for me as USB, but it 
should work ok.

But I'm annoyed by an emerging pattern. It wasn't all that long ago that 
I could sync all my apps by a single action, over USB. Now I need to 
sync each of several apps separately, some via USB, some via WiFi, and 
all using different methods. Instead of getting better (that is, easier) 
things are getting more complicated. And all this complication is 
utterly unnecessary.

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#54993

On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 19:45:34 -0500, Ed Anson <EdAnson@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> For many people, iCloud is probably the best way to handle syncing, 
> because it is trivial to set up. But some of us prefer to keep our 
> important and/or private information out of the cloud. It's not just a 
> matter of privacy. Control is also a concern. Some information is 
> important enough to me that I must insist on controlling it myself. No 
> matter what anyone says, if it's in the cloud I don't control it.

That is correct.  And recent court decisions basically defeating net 
neutrality will make it even more correct as time goes on.  My case 
is exactly an example of this:  Apple, in their infinite pissiness, 
decided they owned my data instead of me owning it.  If I wasn't going 
to play ball by their rules, they were going to take my ball and go 
home.

This is an evil action on their part.  Generally I am pro-Apple (heck, I 
have been using Macs exclusively since 1986) in terms of their product 
design.  But Apple, along with Google and the rest of Big Data, has 
simply become too big for their boots and now are overreaching in a 
spectacular fashion.  Backing up one's data is a good idea for a variety 
of reasons, but wilfull destruction of your data by a computer vendor 
shuld not be a reason to have to back up.

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#54997

In article <slrnldogt0.n69.timmcn@sugaree.local>, Tim McNamara
<timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:

> > For many people, iCloud is probably the best way to handle syncing, 
> > because it is trivial to set up. But some of us prefer to keep our 
> > important and/or private information out of the cloud. It's not just a 
> > matter of privacy. Control is also a concern. Some information is 
> > important enough to me that I must insist on controlling it myself. No 
> > matter what anyone says, if it's in the cloud I don't control it.
> 
> That is correct.  And recent court decisions basically defeating net 
> neutrality will make it even more correct as time goes on.  My case 
> is exactly an example of this:  Apple, in their infinite pissiness, 
> decided they owned my data instead of me owning it.  If I wasn't going 
> to play ball by their rules, they were going to take my ball and go 
> home.

they don't own your data.

> This is an evil action on their part.

it was a mistake on your part. you killed the power before it finished
syncing. that can cause data loss, and in your case, it did.

> Generally I am pro-Apple (heck, I 
> have been using Macs exclusively since 1986) in terms of their product 
> design.  But Apple, along with Google and the rest of Big Data, has 
> simply become too big for their boots and now are overreaching in a 
> spectacular fashion.  Backing up one's data is a good idea for a variety 
> of reasons, but wilfull destruction of your data by a computer vendor 
> shuld not be a reason to have to back up.

they don't intentionally destroy data.

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#55005

On 14-01-19 16:43, nospam wrote:

> it was a mistake on your part. you killed the power before it finished
> syncing. that can cause data loss, and in your case, it did.


Killing the synching process mid-way should never harm the source data
and cause loss of data in the source database. At worse, it should
invalidate all data that was received by the receiver but not
touch/corrupt any data in the sender.

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#55008

In article <52dc5c47$0$58768$c3e8da3$12bcf670@news.astraweb.com>, JF
Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> > it was a mistake on your part. you killed the power before it finished
> > syncing. that can cause data loss, and in your case, it did.
> 
> Killing the synching process mid-way should never harm the source data
> and cause loss of data in the source database. At worse, it should
> invalidate all data that was received by the receiver but not
> touch/corrupt any data in the sender.

it shouldn't, but the point is that apple didn't randomly decide to
delete his data.

his data loss was a direct consequence of him pulling the plug during a
sync. had he not done that, all would be fine.

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#55017

On 14-01-19 18:41, nospam wrote:

> his data loss was a direct consequence of him pulling the plug during a
> sync. had he not done that, all would be fine.

Then that is a major flaw in the software. Imagine you interrupt a
backup and as a results it deletes the original files and the backup.

This shouldn't happen.

If the iCloud thing is meant to MOVE the data to the cloud instead of
duplicating it, then the deletion of the original local data should not
happen until all of the operation has completed.

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#55022

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 16:43:33 -0500, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <slrnldogt0.n69.timmcn@sugaree.local>, Tim McNamara
><timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
>> > For many people, iCloud is probably the best way to handle syncing, 
>> > because it is trivial to set up. But some of us prefer to keep our 
>> > important and/or private information out of the cloud. It's not 
>> > just a matter of privacy. Control is also a concern. Some 
>> > information is important enough to me that I must insist on 
>> > controlling it myself. No matter what anyone says, if it's in the 
>> > cloud I don't control it.
>> 
>> That is correct.  And recent court decisions basically defeating net 
>> neutrality will make it even more correct as time goes on.  My case 
>> is exactly an example of this:  Apple, in their infinite pissiness, 
>> decided they owned my data instead of me owning it.  If I wasn't going 
>> to play ball by their rules, they were going to take my ball and go 
>> home.
>
> they don't own your data.

They acted like they do.

>> This is an evil action on their part.
>
> it was a mistake on your part. you killed the power before it finished 
> syncing. that can cause data loss, and in your case, it did.

There was no reason for it to cause data loss except that Apple designed 
it that way to entrap its customers into using their shitty iCloud 
system.  By the way, there was no indication that it was actually 
syncing.  Six hours to sync a calendar?  Bullshit.  There was zero 
activity happening over my router during almost all of that time.  It 
was clearly a hung or malfunctioning (or really badly designed) process, 
either in the system software involved or at the server end.

>> Generally I am pro-Apple (heck, I have been using Macs exclusively 
>> since 1986) in terms of their product design.  But Apple, along with 
>> Google and the rest of Big Data, has simply become too big for their 
>> boots and now are overreaching in a spectacular fashion.  Backing up 
>> one's data is a good idea for a variety of reasons, but wilfull 
>> destruction of your data by a computer vendor shuld not be a reason 
>> to have to back up.
>
> they don't intentionally destroy data.

Yes, they do.  Try stopping your use of iCloud and see what happens.  
Apple tells you they will delete YOUR data off of YOUR computer if you 
decide not to play with them any more- and they will.  iCloud is not 
merely a backup for your data in the cloud.  iCloud is a transfer of 
ownership of your data to Apple- the same problem as with Google's cloud 
services and other vendors of "cloud computing."  Once they've got their 
hand on your data, they will tell you what you are allowed to do with 
it- cutting them out of the loop is not one of the things you are 
allowed to do.

Had the fuckers not eliminated local syncing of contacts and calendars 
between Mavericks and iOS devices, the use of iCloud would be irrelevant 
to most Mac users.  Make no mistake- as with Google, this situation is 
the result of a deliberate business plan, not a user error.  The only 
error was in trusting that Apple would be honorable; they proved 
otherwise.

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#55028

Tim McNamara:
> Yes, they do.  Try stopping your use of iCloud and see what happens.  
> Apple tells you they will delete YOUR data off of YOUR computer if you 
> decide not to play with them any more- and they will.  iCloud is not 
> merely a backup for your data in the cloud.  iCloud is a transfer of 
> ownership of your data to Apple...

You're hysterical, raving like a lunatic. And you are grossly
exaggerating. I know, because I use iCloud and I tested this. Turn off
iCloud for Notes. Warning, the notes that are stored in iCloud will be
deleted from this Mac (but only this Mac; they're still in the cloud
and they're still on my four other Macs, my four iPads, my three
iPhones, my half dozen or so iPod Touches, etc.) Well, of course they
will be deleted from this Mac, because they're iCloud notes and I'm
saying I don't want iCloud notes on this Mac anymore.

So I say OK. Notes are gone from this Mac. Go to my iPads, my iPhones,
my other Macs. The notes are intact. Log in to icloud.com on this Mac.
There are my notes. Turn Note syncing back on in the iCloud pref pane.
Well, whaddya know? My notes are back immediately. So where's the beef?

I put those notes and Safari bookmarks and Contacts and Calenders on
Apple's server because it's convenient for me to share them among
devices; Apple did not do that without my permission. Use of iCloud is
optional.

-- 
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

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#55034

In article <190120142342011858%star@sky.net>, Davoud <star@sky.net>
wrote:

> You're hysterical, raving like a lunatic. And you are grossly
> exaggerating. I know, because I use iCloud and I tested this. Turn off
> iCloud for Notes. Warning, the notes that are stored in iCloud will be
> deleted from this Mac (but only this Mac; they're still in the cloud
> and they're still on my four other Macs, my four iPads, my three
> iPhones, my half dozen or so iPod Touches, etc.) Well, of course they
> will be deleted from this Mac, because they're iCloud notes and I'm
> saying I don't want iCloud notes on this Mac anymore.

Of course you can copy them from iCloud to your hard disk before
turning off iCloud.  (I'm sure that you know this, but apparently some
other people don't.)

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#55076

Davoud <star@sky.net> writes:

> Tim McNamara:
> > Yes, they do.  Try stopping your use of iCloud and see what happens.  
> > Apple tells you they will delete YOUR data off of YOUR computer if you 
> > decide not to play with them any more- and they will.  iCloud is not 
> > merely a backup for your data in the cloud.  iCloud is a transfer of 
> > ownership of your data to Apple...
> 
> You're hysterical, raving like a lunatic. And you are grossly
> exaggerating. I know, because I use iCloud and I tested this. Turn off
> iCloud for Notes. Warning, the notes that are stored in iCloud will be
> deleted from this Mac (but only this Mac; they're still in the cloud
> and they're still on my four other Macs, my four iPads, my three
> iPhones, my half dozen or so iPod Touches, etc.) Well, of course they
> will be deleted from this Mac, because they're iCloud notes and I'm
> saying I don't want iCloud notes on this Mac anymore.
> 
> So I say OK. Notes are gone from this Mac. Go to my iPads, my iPhones,
> my other Macs. The notes are intact. Log in to icloud.com on this Mac.
> There are my notes. Turn Note syncing back on in the iCloud pref pane.
> Well, whaddya know? My notes are back immediately. So where's the beef?
> 
> I put those notes and Safari bookmarks and Contacts and Calenders on
> Apple's server because it's convenient for me to share them among
> devices; Apple did not do that without my permission. Use of iCloud is
> optional.

Furthermore, if you wish to stop using the iCloud service, you can in
fact copy all the data there to your local machine first.

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#55033

In article <slrnldp410.nh2.timmcn@sugaree.local>, Tim McNamara
<timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:

> There was no reason for it to cause data loss except that Apple designed 
> it that way to entrap its customers into using their shitty iCloud 
> system. 

Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence.

> Yes, they do.  Try stopping your use of iCloud and see what happens.  
> Apple tells you they will delete YOUR data off of YOUR computer if you 
> decide not to play with them any more- and they will.

Where do they say that?

> Make no mistake- as with Google, this situation is 
> the result of a deliberate business plan, not a user error.  

What evidence do you have to support that?

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#55042

In article <190120142221235033%michelle@michelle.org>,
 Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article <slrnldp410.nh2.timmcn@sugaree.local>, Tim McNamara
> <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
> 
> > There was no reason for it to cause data loss except that Apple designed 
> > it that way to entrap its customers into using their shitty iCloud 
> > system. 
> 
> Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence.
> 
> > Yes, they do.  Try stopping your use of iCloud and see what happens.  
> > Apple tells you they will delete YOUR data off of YOUR computer if you 
> > decide not to play with them any more- and they will.
> 
> Where do they say that?
> 
> > Make no mistake- as with Google, this situation is 
> > the result of a deliberate business plan, not a user error.  
> 
> What evidence do you have to support that?

This is not true. Either you're imagining things or forgot to take your 
meds this morning.

I turned off all iCloud services after attempting to use iCloud to sync 
to Google Contacts, which it won't do. I'm still looking for a solution 
for that.  It DOUBLED all my contacts.  Once I removed iCloud sync, 
everything went back to local files.  I just had to weed out the 
duplicates by hand.

iCloud has been known to throw out mail which contained certain keywords 
without telling the mail sender it was doing this.  This has nothing to 
do with junk or spam filtering.  They're just taking all email with the 
keywords "barely legal teen" and throwing them away. That's a violation 
of the Mail RFCs.  But the fact that they can do this and, in fact, 
already are doing it is spelled out in their T&Cs.

<http://www.macworld.com/article/2029570/silent-email-filtering-makes-icl
oud-an-unreliable-option.html>

The only thing I use iCloud for is "locate your Mac".  And I also have 
Prey installed.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

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#55043

On 14-01-20 02:19, Michael Vilain wrote:
> iCloud has been known to throw out mail which contained certain keywords 
> without telling the mail sender it was doing this.


Out of curiosioty, how does iCloud provide emails ?

If my appleID is jdoe@chocolate.ca , and the MX record for chocolate.ca
points to a non Apple server, how can Apple get those emails and apply
its puranical standards to delete emails it doesn't like ?

Or does iCloud provide a new email address such as jdoe@icloud.com and
it is only if you use that email address that you get Apple's content
filtering ?

If I upgrade to Mavericks from Snow Leopard, will Mail.App which gets
emails from my own IMAP server start to allow iCloud to send "delete"
command to my IMAP server via Mail.App ?

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