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Mavericks irritants - menu bar; programs oepning

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  Mavericks irritants - menu bar; programs oepning Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-11-06 17:29 -0500
    Re: Mavericks irritants - menu bar; programs oepning Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-07 13:14 +1300
      Re: Mavericks irritants - menu bar; programs oepning Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-06 19:44 -0500
        Re: Mavericks irritants - menu bar; programs oepning Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-11-07 01:36 +0000
          Re: Mavericks irritants - menu bar; programs oepning nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-06 22:40 -0500
        Re: Mavericks irritants - menu bar; programs oepning Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-07 15:54 +1300
          Re: Mavericks irritants - menu bar; programs oepning nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-06 22:40 -0500
        Re: Mavericks irritants - menu bar; programs oepning nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-06 22:40 -0500
          Re: Mavericks irritants - menu bar; programs oepning Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-06 22:55 -0500
            Re: Mavericks irritants - menu bar; programs oepning Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-07 18:24 +1300
      Re: Mavericks irritants - menu bar; programs oepning Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-11-06 20:36 -0500
        Re: Mavericks irritants - menu bar; programs oepning Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-11-07 15:56 +1300
          Re: Mavericks irritants - menu bar; programs oepning nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-06 22:40 -0500
          Re: Mavericks irritants - menu bar; programs oepning Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-11-07 16:57 -0500
      Re: Mavericks irritants - menu bar; programs oepning nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-06 22:40 -0500
    Re: Mavericks irritants - menu bar; programs oepning befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2013-11-11 11:04 +0100
      Re: Mavericks irritants - menu bar; programs oepning dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2013-11-11 23:23 +1300

#51937 — Mavericks irritants - menu bar; programs oepning

1. The new menu bar opening on the screen where the focus is seemed like 
an answered wish.  Now I consider it a curse as info I like to see on my 
primary screen is made dull/opaque when the focus is on the other 
screen.  Hit CMD-Spacebar and it opens where the focus is.

2. Opening a finder window used to always be on the primary screen (or 
at least where the last finder window was used - something like that). 
Now it opens on the screen with focus.  Argh.  (If I'm looking at an 
e-mail (2nd screen) and then want to open a finder to look for 
something, I want that finder window to be opened on my main screen 
where I manipulate files.

2a.  Since the resolution of the 2nd screen is much smaller than that of 
the main (esp. vertical), the finder window that gets opened is too 
small for my taste.


<sigh>




-- 
"The radio was once expected to promote international understanding and 
co-operation;
it has turned out to be a means of insulating one nation from another."
                                                  -George Orwell, 1945

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#51943

In article <apKdnSUVaOQnX-fPnZ2dnUVZ_hSdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> 1. The new menu bar opening on the screen where the focus is seemed like 
> an answered wish.  Now I consider it a curse as info I like to see on my 
> primary screen is made dull/opaque when the focus is on the other 
> screen.  Hit CMD-Spacebar and it opens where the focus is.
> 
> 2. Opening a finder window used to always be on the primary screen (or 
> at least where the last finder window was used - something like that). 
> Now it opens on the screen with focus.  Argh.  (If I'm looking at an 
> e-mail (2nd screen) and then want to open a finder to look for 
> something, I want that finder window to be opened on my main screen 
> where I manipulate files.
> 
> 2a.  Since the resolution of the 2nd screen is much smaller than that of 
> the main (esp. vertical), the finder window that gets opened is too 
> small for my taste.
> 
> 
> <sigh>


Here's one for you, although not a Mavericks addition (it's been there
since OS X was first released.) ...

You are using one application, then you decide also need use another so
open it and while it's opening you go back to the first application to
continue working in it ... but highly irritatingly the windows of the
new application keep popping up over the current application as it
opens "in the backgorund" blocking the view of the working application!

This happens on a daily basis where I'm using Eudora to write emails. I
then log on to the internet (a dial-up connection) and once that has
connected I open up Thoth and Firefox, but continue to work in Eudora
... except the Firefox and Thoth windows keep popping up over the top. 


The front most application should not be covered by background
application windows opening up.  X-(

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#51945

On 11-06-2013, 19:14, Your Name wrote:
> Here's one for you, although not a Mavericks addition (it's been there
> since OS X was first released.) ...
>
> You are using one application, then you decide also need use another so
> open it and while it's opening you go back to the first application to
> continue working in it ... but highly irritatingly the windows of the
> new application keep popping up over the current application as it
> opens "in the backgorund" blocking the view of the working application!
>
> This happens on a daily basis where I'm using Eudora to write emails. I
> then log on to the internet (a dial-up connection) and once that has
> connected I open up Thoth and Firefox, but continue to work in Eudora
> ... except the Firefox and Thoth windows keep popping up over the top.
>
> The front most application should not be covered by background
> application windows opening up.  X-(

This has been a pet peeve of mine--on every operating system I've 
used--developers who code as if their program is the ONLY one running on 
a multi-tasking operating system.

-- 
Wes Groleau

    There are more Baroque musicians than any other kind.

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#51952

In message <l5enqa$nn5$1@dont-email.me> 
  Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> wrote:
> On 11-06-2013, 19:14, Your Name wrote:
>> Here's one for you, although not a Mavericks addition (it's been there
>> since OS X was first released.) ...
>>
>> You are using one application, then you decide also need use another so
>> open it and while it's opening you go back to the first application to
>> continue working in it ... but highly irritatingly the windows of the
>> new application keep popping up over the current application as it
>> opens "in the backgorund" blocking the view of the working application!

Imagine the opposite behavior for a regular old user. Let's say they
triple click the icon instead of double clicking. So, they've launched
the application, but now they are back in the finder as the active
application. The app they are expecting opens up in the background (or
worse, on other space).

Yeah, that sounds like a great plan.

-- 
Sam, I thought I told you never to play--

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#51965

In article <slrnl7lrln.19go.g.kreme@mbp55.local>, Lewis
<g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> >> Here's one for you, although not a Mavericks addition (it's been there
> >> since OS X was first released.) ...
> >>
> >> You are using one application, then you decide also need use another so
> >> open it and while it's opening you go back to the first application to
> >> continue working in it ... but highly irritatingly the windows of the
> >> new application keep popping up over the current application as it
> >> opens "in the backgorund" blocking the view of the working application!
> 
> Imagine the opposite behavior for a regular old user. Let's say they
> triple click the icon instead of double clicking. So, they've launched
> the application, but now they are back in the finder as the active
> application. The app they are expecting opens up in the background (or
> worse, on other space).
> 
> Yeah, that sounds like a great plan.

that's an errant click from the user. there's nothing you can do about
that.

the problem is when a user intentionally clicks another app and a
*different* app forces itself frontmost. at best it's an annoyance and
at worst, it can cause data loss. *not* good.

i've been in the middle of finder drags and another window pops up in
front and obscures what i was doing, which means i have no idea where
the icon is. that's very broken.

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#51957

In article <l5enqa$nn5$1@dont-email.me>, Wes Groleau
<Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> wrote:

> On 11-06-2013, 19:14, Your Name wrote:
> > Here's one for you, although not a Mavericks addition (it's been there
> > since OS X was first released.) ...
> >
> > You are using one application, then you decide also need use another so
> > open it and while it's opening you go back to the first application to
> > continue working in it ... but highly irritatingly the windows of the
> > new application keep popping up over the current application as it
> > opens "in the backgorund" blocking the view of the working application!
> >
> > This happens on a daily basis where I'm using Eudora to write emails. I
> > then log on to the internet (a dial-up connection) and once that has
> > connected I open up Thoth and Firefox, but continue to work in Eudora
> > ... except the Firefox and Thoth windows keep popping up over the top.
> >
> > The front most application should not be covered by background
> > application windows opening up.  X-(
> 
> This has been a pet peeve of mine--on every operating system I've 
> used--developers who code as if their program is the ONLY one running on 
> a multi-tasking operating system.

I don't remember Mac OS 9 doing that, but then it has been a while
since I've used rebooted into OS 9 and done a lot at once (I do still
reboot into OS 9, but really only for a specific use that doesn't
require needing to do more than one thing at a time).

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#51966

In article <071120131554490680%YourName@YourISP.com>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> I don't remember Mac OS 9 doing that, but then it has been a while
> since I've used rebooted into OS 9 and done a lot at once (I do still
> reboot into OS 9, but really only for a specific use that doesn't
> require needing to do more than one thing at a time).

mac os 9 and earlier never did it.

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#51964

In article <l5enqa$nn5$1@dont-email.me>, Wes Groleau
<Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> wrote:

> > The front most application should not be covered by background
> > application windows opening up.  X-(
> 
> This has been a pet peeve of mine--on every operating system I've 
> used--developers who code as if their program is the ONLY one running on 
> a multi-tasking operating system.

it does not occur on very many operating systems and in the case of os
x, it's an os x bug, not the app.

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#51968

On 11-06-2013, 22:40, nospam wrote:
> <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> wrote:
>
>>> The front most application should not be covered by background
>>> application windows opening up.  X-(
>>
>> This has been a pet peeve of mine--on every operating system I've
>> used--developers who code as if their program is the ONLY one running on
>> a multi-tasking operating system.
>
> it does not occur on very many operating systems and in the case of os
> x, it's an os x bug, not the app.

One could argue it that it's on OS X bug to allow the other app to steal 
focus.  And one could argue it's a bug in the other app to do so.

I argue that it's negligence on Apple's part and stupidity on the app's 
part.

And I have seen it on Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows 7, 
Solaris, and OS X.

-- 
Wes Groleau

   “What you see and hear depends a good deal on where you are standing;
    it also depends on what kind of person you are.”
                                                       -- C.S.Lewis

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#51972

In article <l5f30a$85i$1@dont-email.me>, Wes Groleau
<Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> wrote:

> On 11-06-2013, 22:40, nospam wrote:
> > <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> wrote:
> >
> >>> The front most application should not be covered by background
> >>> application windows opening up.  X-(
> >>
> >> This has been a pet peeve of mine--on every operating system I've
> >> used--developers who code as if their program is the ONLY one running on
> >> a multi-tasking operating system.
> >
> > it does not occur on very many operating systems and in the case of os
> > x, it's an os x bug, not the app.
> 
> One could argue it that it's on OS X bug to allow the other app to steal 
> focus.  And one could argue it's a bug in the other app to do so.
> 
> I argue that it's negligence on Apple's part and stupidity on the app's 
> part.
> 
> And I have seen it on Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows 7, 
> Solaris, and OS X.

Technically it's a feature of OS X - it's due to the OS being
window-focused with the ability to have windows from different
already-running applications visible at the same time (for example, to
drag dcument from a Finder window into a Mail message as an
attachment).

The windows of a newly-opened application open in the foreground since
the OS believes that you want to use that application now ... which of
course often you do, but sometimes you don't. The OS can't really know
if you're actually wanting to still use the window of the previous
application, except of course if you're actively typing / clicking in
it. If you're just reading an email, then the OS isn't going to know
that (yet).

Under Mac OS 9 of course it was (usually) application-focused, so
clicking on a window brought the entire application for the foreground,
and the newly-opened application simply carried on open behind it.

As always, there are pluses and minuses to both approaches ... it's
just highly irritating when it does what you don't want it to.

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#51951

On 2013.11.06, 19:14 , Your Name wrote:
> In article <apKdnSUVaOQnX-fPnZ2dnUVZ_hSdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> 1. The new menu bar opening on the screen where the focus is seemed like
>> an answered wish.  Now I consider it a curse as info I like to see on my
>> primary screen is made dull/opaque when the focus is on the other
>> screen.  Hit CMD-Spacebar and it opens where the focus is.
>>
>> 2. Opening a finder window used to always be on the primary screen (or
>> at least where the last finder window was used - something like that).
>> Now it opens on the screen with focus.  Argh.  (If I'm looking at an
>> e-mail (2nd screen) and then want to open a finder to look for
>> something, I want that finder window to be opened on my main screen
>> where I manipulate files.
>>
>> 2a.  Since the resolution of the 2nd screen is much smaller than that of
>> the main (esp. vertical), the finder window that gets opened is too
>> small for my taste.
>>
>>
>> <sigh>
>
>
> Here's one for you, although not a Mavericks addition (it's been there
> since OS X was first released.) ...
>
> You are using one application, then you decide also need use another so
> open it and while it's opening you go back to the first application to
> continue working in it ... but highly irritatingly the windows of the
> new application keep popping up over the current application as it
> opens "in the backgorund" blocking the view of the working application!

I've noted that one before.  Windows (and IIRC Linux) do the same.

> The front most application should not be covered by background
> application windows opening up.  X-(

They are not "background" from a processing POV, but they are from a GUI 
POV.



-- 
"The radio was once expected to promote international understanding and 
co-operation;
it has turned out to be a means of insulating one nation from another."
                                                  -George Orwell, 1945

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#51958

In article <td-dnT1wlJo6c-fPnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> On 2013.11.06, 19:14 , Your Name wrote:
> > In article <apKdnSUVaOQnX-fPnZ2dnUVZ_hSdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> > <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> 1. The new menu bar opening on the screen where the focus is seemed like
> >> an answered wish.  Now I consider it a curse as info I like to see on my
> >> primary screen is made dull/opaque when the focus is on the other
> >> screen.  Hit CMD-Spacebar and it opens where the focus is.
> >>
> >> 2. Opening a finder window used to always be on the primary screen (or
> >> at least where the last finder window was used - something like that).
> >> Now it opens on the screen with focus.  Argh.  (If I'm looking at an
> >> e-mail (2nd screen) and then want to open a finder to look for
> >> something, I want that finder window to be opened on my main screen
> >> where I manipulate files.
> >>
> >> 2a.  Since the resolution of the 2nd screen is much smaller than that of
> >> the main (esp. vertical), the finder window that gets opened is too
> >> small for my taste.
> >>
> >>
> >> <sigh>
> >
> >
> > Here's one for you, although not a Mavericks addition (it's been there
> > since OS X was first released.) ...
> >
> > You are using one application, then you decide also need use another so
> > open it and while it's opening you go back to the first application to
> > continue working in it ... but highly irritatingly the windows of the
> > new application keep popping up over the current application as it
> > opens "in the backgorund" blocking the view of the working application!
> 
> I've noted that one before.  Windows (and IIRC Linux) do the same.
> 
> > The front most application should not be covered by background
> > application windows opening up.  X-(
> 
> They are not "background" from a processing POV, but they are from a GUI 
> POV.

It should be "simple" enough to at least "protect" the currently active
window from being over-layed with any new windows from other
applications.

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#51967

In article <071120131556075368%YourName@YourISP.com>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> It should be "simple" enough to at least "protect" the currently active
> window from being over-layed with any new windows from other
> applications.

it's very simple to do, but apple won't do it. 

apple's position is if an app wants to be frontmost, it gets to be
frontmost. doesn't matter if it causes the user problems or they lose
data.

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#52031

On 2013.11.06, 21:56 , Your Name wrote:
> In article <td-dnT1wlJo6c-fPnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2013.11.06, 19:14 , Your Name wrote:

>>> You are using one application, then you decide also need use another so
>>> open it and while it's opening you go back to the first application to
>>> continue working in it ... but highly irritatingly the windows of the
>>> new application keep popping up over the current application as it
>>> opens "in the backgorund" blocking the view of the working application!
>>
>> I've noted that one before.  Windows (and IIRC Linux) do the same.
>>
>>> The front most application should not be covered by background
>>> application windows opening up.  X-(
>>
>> They are not "background" from a processing POV, but they are from a GUI
>> POV.
>
> It should be "simple" enough to at least "protect" the currently active
> window from being over-layed with any new windows from other
> applications.

You're preaching to the saved.


-- 
"The radio was once expected to promote international understanding and 
co-operation;
it has turned out to be a means of insulating one nation from another."
                                                  -George Orwell, 1945

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#51963

In article <071120131314137728%YourName@YourISP.com>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> 
> Here's one for you, although not a Mavericks addition (it's been there
> since OS X was first released.) ...
> 
> You are using one application, then you decide also need use another so
> open it and while it's opening you go back to the first application to
> continue working in it ... but highly irritatingly the windows of the
> new application keep popping up over the current application as it
> opens "in the backgorund" blocking the view of the working application!
> 
> This happens on a daily basis where I'm using Eudora to write emails. I
> then log on to the internet (a dial-up connection) and once that has
> connected I open up Thoth and Firefox, but continue to work in Eudora
> ... except the Firefox and Thoth windows keep popping up over the top. 
> 
> The front most application should not be covered by background
> application windows opening up.  X-(

that is an os x bug that will never be fixed.

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#52127

Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> 1. The new menu bar opening on the screen where the focus is seemed like
> an answered wish.  Now I consider it a curse as info I like to see on my
> primary screen is made dull/opaque when the focus is on the other 
> screen.

There is a preference to switch back to the pre-Mavericks behaviour.
Unfortunately I forgot where to find it.

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#52128

Bernd Fröhlich <befr@eaglesoft.de> wrote:

> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> 
> > 1. The new menu bar opening on the screen where the focus is seemed like
> > an answered wish.  Now I consider it a curse as info I like to see on my
> > primary screen is made dull/opaque when the focus is on the other 
> > screen.
> 
> There is a preference to switch back to the pre-Mavericks behaviour.
> Unfortunately I forgot where to find it.

System Preferences > Mission Control

"Displays have separate Spaces".

On (default) = new behaviour with displays being mostly independent,
menu bars on each display; windows crossing a boundary between two
displays only appear on one display except while dragging.

Off = old behaviour with menu bar only on primary display and other
displays extending the desktop; windows crossing a boundary between two
displays are partly visible on both displays.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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