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Re: Question about wildcards in Unix

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Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> writes:

> In article <8ffvoiz4n2.fsf@ethel.the.log>, Doug Anderson
> <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:
> > > On 14-01-20 15:57, Doug Anderson wrote:
> > > > > I'll keep away from the sidewalk below your window.  Realize
> > though
> > > > that the shell is extremely powerful (as are commands like "find,"
> > > > horrible though the syntax is).  So 5 minutes is not enough time to
> > > > learn more!
> > > > If it takes an hour to find out the correct invocation of a
> > command, you
> > > might still call the shell powerfull, but is it usefull?
> > The more powerful a tool is, the longer it generally takes to learn
> > how to use it fluently.
> 
> I don't see that this necessarily follows.

A light switch is very simple.  It does one thing - turn the power off
and turn the power on.  Easy to learn how to use, not very powerful.

A TV remote by contrast needs to do many things.  It can do far more
than turn a TV off and on, and has to be able to do far more than
that.  But it is much harder to learn how to use than a light switch,
even if it is the world's best designed TV remote..
> 
> > Sometimes it takes me 30 seconds to figure out what command I need.
> > Sometimes it takes me an hour.  It all depends on how complicated what
> > I'm trying to do is, and how much I already know about related
> > commands.
> 
> Based on the two (2) occasions when I've been fool enough to launch
> emacs, it takes me 20 minutes to find out how to quit it.

20 minutes!  You must have very slow internet service.  I typed "how
do I quit emacs" into google, and had the answer in well under a
minute.  (Though I actually know how to quit emacs - I was just seeing
how long it would take.)

Again, emacs is an incredibly powerful and useful text editor - the
things I use it for would take 20 times as long for me in
TextWrangler.  But yes, learning how to use it required an investment
in time over the years.

> If I need to edit anything I use TextWrangler, (or perhaps vi), and if
> I need a script I write it in PHP.
> 
> I've learnt a few simple commands like fgrep for doing multi-file
> searches. hexdump is useful sometimes for verifying that a file has the
> content I believe it to have. But for everything else, there's probably
> a GUI app. PacketPeeper is all I need to spy on packets on the wire,
> f'rinstance.

By "for everything else" you mean everything else that _you_ do.  And
that's fine - I'm not trying to talk you or anyone else into learning
how to use the unix shell.

I'm just pointing out that one of the reasons it is hard to learn how
to use is that it is incredibly powerful.  It is hard to learn how to
use a TV remote than a light switch.  You can turn your TV on and off
with a light switch if you set things up that way, but you won't be
able to change channels, switch inputs, change volume, adjust the
picture, etc. with a light switch.

The right tool for the right job.  If you have no jobs for which the
unix shell is the right tool, then by all means stay away from it.
But it is naive to think that the unix shell is defective because you
can't learn how to use it in 5 minutes.

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Thread

Question about wildcards in Unix JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-01-19 17:19 -0500
  Re: Question about wildcards in Unix Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2014-01-19 14:42 -0800
  Re: Question about wildcards in Unix Joanna Shuttleworth <js@example.com> - 2014-01-19 22:46 +0000
    Re: Question about wildcards in Unix JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-01-19 18:16 -0500
      Re: Question about wildcards in Unix dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-01-20 12:43 +1300
        Re: Question about wildcards in Unix nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-19 19:02 -0500
          Re: Question about wildcards in Unix dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-01-20 17:41 +1300
        Re: Question about wildcards in Unix JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-01-19 19:55 -0500
          Re: Question about wildcards in Unix Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-20 03:00 +0000
          Re: Question about wildcards in Unix mcarels@xs4all.nl (Maarten Carels) - 2014-01-20 10:05 +0100
            Re: Question about wildcards in Unix Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-20 09:49 +0000
              Re: Question about wildcards in Unix Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-20 12:57 -0800
                Re: Question about wildcards in Unix JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-01-20 16:15 -0500
                Re: Question about wildcards in Unix Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-20 14:10 -0800
                Re: Question about wildcards in Unix Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-20 23:06 +0000
                Re: Question about wildcards in Unix Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-20 16:39 -0800
                Re: Question about wildcards in Unix nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-20 18:44 -0500
                Re: Question about wildcards in Unix Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-20 16:42 -0800
                Re: Question about wildcards in Unix Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-21 10:23 +0000
            Re: Question about wildcards in Unix Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-20 18:43 +0000
      Re: Question about wildcards in Unix Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-20 12:55 -0800

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