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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #71817

Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies

From "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
Newsgroups misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.ipad, comp.sys.mac.system
Subject Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies
Date 2015-03-23 04:31 +1100
Message-ID <cn8clcFnlhU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References <200320151703579843%michelle@michelle.org> <cn4tk1F3eloU2@mid.individual.net> <slrnmgs7bl.e00.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org> <550e4a73$0$25110$c3e8da3$92d0a893@news.astraweb.com> <rd2dnQ5jcbFAJZPInZ2dnUU7-dGdnZ2d@earthlink.com>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote
> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote
>> Lewis wrote

>>> Fact: ONLY the bank can decide if a card is added to Apple Pay.
>>> ONLY the bank can decide if the card is valid or risky. ONLY the
>>> bank can decide how much verification is needed. ONLY. The. Bank.

>> In an ideal environment where the bank controls
>> the full system, you are entirely correct.

> The bank controls its own credit cards

Not really, in practice it gets to wear what the majors like Visa
and MasterCard choose to do on the detail like chip and pin etc.

> and the decision to go with Apple Pay

Not really when Apple has already turned entire industries on
their heads and may well be about to do that again and if a
particular bank decides to ignore ApplePay until its clear that
it is going to take off, they may well lose a lot more customers
than they would lose due to fraud when Apple doesn’t provide
them with enough information about who is adding the card
to ApplePay to check that automatically and cheaply, particularly
if Apple initially just says take it or leave it to the banks.

> and whether the authentication procedures were enough.

Trouble is that that will always be an area where the cost of
potential fraud has to be considered against the cost of the
authentication procedures and the risk that the customer
will just go to another bank that doesn’t jerk them around
on that when they want to use ApplePay.

> If (a very big 'if') they allowed themselves to be bullied by Apple

Its not a very big if at all. Its just not feasible for Apple to
negotiate with each bank individually just what information
Apple will be providing to allow the bank to cheaply check
who is actually adding the card to ApplePay. And we do know
that Apple now provides more information than they did initially.

The banks must have known all along what it would cost
them to check who was adding the card to ApplePay.

> they got what they deserved.

Its nothing like that black and white with an operation like Apple.

> The CC companies going in decided that the gain for going
> with Apple Pay was less than the losses. THEY made the decision.

Yes, but it was Apple that put them in the position that if they
couldn’t just ignore ApplePay and hope it would go away without
significant risk that they would lose a lot more customers than they
would lose due to fraud because Apple didn’t provide them with
enough information that they could use cheaply to check that it
was the card holder that was adding the card to ApplePay.

>> The post office doesn't advertise how credit cards work. Apple announced
>> to billions of people in its keynote (ok, Bones tells me it is thousands
>> :-) how Apple Pay worked and this is meddling with "banking" and makes
>> it harder for an individual bank to work differently than what Apple 
>> announced.

> For that to be true, Apple would have had to announce
> Apple Pay before the contracts for the service were in place.

Nope, just have decided that they would be doing a take it or leave it
with the banks. There is no other feasible approach with so many banks
as the US system has. They can't have individual contracts with them all.

> You aren't really suggesting that happened?

Corse it did.

> Even if it did, I doubt that many banks (and especially the bigger
> ones like Chase, et al.) would feel any guilt about making Apple
> look bad for  trying to coerce them into the program.

Apple is never going to look bad while ever the banks
get to wear the cost of fraud or piss the customers off
by requiring them to prove that it was them that added
the card to ApplePay.

>> Bottom line is that the bank retains responsability for evaluating the
>> fraud risk fo Apple's service. But it is not so easy to go against the
>> 10,000 kg gorilla (Apple) that has extremely strong marketing force.

> Yeah, and the credit card companies have no marketing of their own

Its got nothing to do with marketing in this situation. Its just not 
possible
to market making their customers prove it was them adding the card to
ApplePay when customers can just use a bank that doesn’t fuck them
over on something like that after Apple has made a big deal about how
easy it is to add a card to ApplePay. They don’t get within a bulls roar
of Apple marketing wise.

> and Apple Pay would be such a great success if the credit card companies
> did not go along meaning the CC companies had no say in the matter.
> (Note sarcasm).

Even sillier than you usually manage.

Banks start off behind the 8 ball with almost everyone except bank
employees and ex employees believing they shaft their customers
every chance they get. Those with iDevices feel very differently about
Apple and many of them actually believe that Apple can do no wrong
and that the sun shines out of Apple's arse. The banks haven't got a
hope in hell of convincing Apple customers that Apple is at fault.

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Thread

Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-20 17:03 -0700
  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-20 20:28 -0400
    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 14:38 +1100
  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 13:55 +1100
    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-20 20:59 -0700
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 16:51 +1100
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-21 07:53 -0700
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:19 +1100
  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-03-21 09:57 +0000
    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-21 09:06 -0400
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 13:11 -0400
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:51 +1100
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 15:10 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 06:24 +1100
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-21 17:49 -0400
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 21:10 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:18 +0000
    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 10:57 -0400
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-21 15:01 +0000
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2015-03-21 16:20 +0000
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 12:38 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2015-03-21 17:18 +0000
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:55 +1100
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 17:15 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:04 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 10:11 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 14:16 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 22:29 +0000
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 13:40 -0400
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:32 +1100
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-21 15:08 -0700
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:02 +0000
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-21 17:46 -0400
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:19 +0000
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-22 09:52 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 14:12 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 05:00 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-22 18:58 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 23:32 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:30 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 01:20 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 21:10 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-23 09:47 -0500
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-22 22:48 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 02:50 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:54 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:31 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-23 14:20 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 05:53 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 19:05 +0000
                Apple Watch Kills; was: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2015-03-24 10:20 -0700
                Re: Apple Watch Kills; was: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-24 19:06 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 02:35 +0000
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:22 +1100
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 17:15 -0400
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 12:17 +1100
    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-21 13:03 -0400
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 05:44 +1100
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-03-21 21:57 +0000
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:14 +0000
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 13:54 -0400
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 05:14 +1100
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 14:38 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 05:54 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 15:09 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 06:24 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 17:15 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 09:00 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:06 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 11:24 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 21:10 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:43 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 02:33 +0000
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 23:26 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:28 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 20:30 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 21:06 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:40 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 01:12 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 21:23 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 21:26 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 01:46 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:52 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 22:22 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:49 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:25 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:33 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 14:08 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-23 14:09 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 18:33 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 05:49 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:37 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 22:15 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 02:29 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:43 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:18 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 13:30 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 05:44 +1100
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-23 15:04 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 15:16 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 19:33 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 15:51 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 19:59 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 07:07 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 16:36 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 08:37 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 21:45 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-03-24 10:51 +1300
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-23 18:43 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 22:56 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 10:29 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-24 05:36 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-24 01:47 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 19:44 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-24 15:04 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-24 05:35 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 07:02 +1100
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 23:05 +0000
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:19 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 00:36 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 21:18 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 01:36 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 22:12 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 22:20 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 02:30 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 02:24 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 13:39 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2015-03-22 20:05 -0700
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 23:46 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 15:00 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 14:52 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-23 00:10 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 18:58 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-23 13:41 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 18:52 +0000
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:48 +1100
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:33 +1100
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:13 +0000
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 02:29 +0000
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:59 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies News <News@Group.Post> - 2015-03-23 13:14 -0400
    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 01:39 +0000
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 00:52 -0400
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 02:11 -0400
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 17:44 +1100
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 06:22 +0000
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 02:40 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 22:17 +0000
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 17:28 +1100
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 02:47 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 17:56 +1100
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 04:09 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 19:14 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 04:47 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 20:40 +1100
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-22 08:49 -0400
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:38 +0000
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 04:38 +1100
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-22 22:23 +0000
              Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 20:13 -0400
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 12:30 +1100
                Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 03:11 +0000
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-22 08:43 -0400
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:36 +0000
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 04:31 +1100
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:24 +0000
          Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-03-22 14:04 -0400
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 05:25 +1100
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 23:15 +0000
            Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-23 02:40 +0000
  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-03-21 09:02 -0400
  Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-21 11:43 -0500
    Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 13:10 +0000
      Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2015-03-22 10:33 -0500
        Re: Apple Pay Exposes Insecure Bank Policies Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-22 15:48 +0000

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